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Refund Problems with D3luxe/Luxe and the owner Yosef Adde

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Some help please!?!?

As you may know from other posts, I have been looking for a diamond and believe I've found the one. Prior to this, however, I had purchased a stone from a vendor (whom I will leave anonymous for now in the hopes that he is being honest) about one month ago and paid for the diamond with a wire transfer. Before he shipped me the diamond, however, I changed my mind and cancelled the transaction. He agreed to refund my money, but for the past month he has been telling me that my wire transfer did not "clear" his bank. He is saying that even though it was a wire transfer, his bank is telling him that it could be reversed in the event of fraud for a period of 60-90 days. He says that he cannot refund my money until this time has passed, which seems completely wrong to me as I thought this was the whole point of using wire transfers (i.e., funds clear immediately). Furthermore, he said that after 60 days he will have to call his bank every day until they tell him it is ok... He said that Blue Nile has a similar policy, but I called them and they asssured me that this only happens with EFT/ACH transactions, which they do not accept and is not how I paid this vendor. I also contacted my bank, which assured me that the wire cleared and absolutely positively could not be reversed for any reason, including fraud. I also contacted his bank, Citibank, which told me that any policy of reversal for fraud was up to my bank and that at worse I could provide proof of the legitimacy to the vendor. The vendor is refusing to do anything at this time and is telling me to simply be patient and wait another 4-8 weeks (perhaps longer) for the money.

Does this sound at all legitimate to anyone? Am I missing something? I am so frustrated and angry, but I want to know if perhaps he is truly in a bind that I don't understand. Are there any of the vendors online who can opine on this situation? Any advice is welcome as I am otherwise stuck waiting up to 2 months for over $20k to be returned to me.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
Re: Refund Problems

I'd be telling him that he has 24 hours to refund the money or you'll be calling the police. You have been patient longer than necessary.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

diamondseeker2006|1308104458|2946201 said:
I'd be telling him that he has 24 hours to refund the money or you'll be calling the police. You have been patient longer than necessary.
That is exactly how I feel. I just want to make sure I am in the right before I take any extreme measures. So far I've talked to my bank and his bank as well as the other vendor (BlueNile) he mentioned that allegedly had the same policy. I really don't want to have to involve the authorities or the courts, but I really need the money back, and really need it back now.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
Re: Refund Problems

You never even took possession of the diamond! He has zero excuse not to have immediately refunded the money. I have wired money several times, and the vendors always confirm within a day that they have received the funds in their account. I would have given him the benefit of the doubt for a week, because it might take a trip to the bank to do the refund by wire back to your account. But this is ridicuous!
 

PinkTower

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
1,129
Re: Refund Problems

Is this a ps vendor?
I had a wire of substantially more than that amount last week, and called my bank because it took a little longer than usual. (By longer than usual, I mean a period of several hours.) I was told that the funds first go through the Federal Reserve and are not actually sent directly from one bank to the other. They are then released from the Federal Reserve in Batches. So, I don't see how something can have a possibility of fraud if it has already cleared the Federal Reserve. I would be in my Bank Branch manager's office first thing in the morning and get all questions clarified. They can probably get in touch with the Federal Reserve for you and get some action between the banks.
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
Re: Refund Problems

I agree with diamondseeker. Is this a pricescoper vendor? My husband receives wires all the time in his business and they usually show up within a few hours of being sent. Sometimes it has taken a day but not more and the funds are available immediately. You deserve a refund tomorrow and I'd call and demand it and wouldn't hesitate to pursue further action if necessary.
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
8,087
Re: Refund Problems

He needs to refund your money, ASAP. There is no way something like what he's describing could work. Either he genuinely doesn't understand how wire transfers work, or he figures two months interest off of 20K is better than nothing.

Also ... if you're comfortable with it once this is over, I'd sort of appreciate knowing who this is. I would be very upset if a vendor tried to pull something like this - good on you for being so patient.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. To clarify one point, he has the money, and is not claiming it did not clear in terms of not having the funds in his bank. Rather, he is saying that supposedly his bank has told him that by refunding my money now, he is taking the risk of having the original transfer reversed if it was found to be fraudulant. I have offered to prove that I own my account and initiated the transfer, but that doesn't seem to matter. I told him that this risk--if real--would be the same as if he had shipped me the diamond right away, but he said that's a risk he takes in the hopes of fulfilling a transaction.... Doesn't this sound fishy??? If there was a real risk, no one would ship a product worth tens of thousands of dollars.

Also, I am a lawyer, but I've never found threatening (without more) to get me anywhere. And I doubt the police would want to get involved in a commercial dispute such as this. If he continues to withhold my money I can go through agencies like the BBB, etc. and can pursue a civil action in court, but frankly the legal side of that takes a lot of time and because I'm not local to him I'd have to hire an attorney there, etc. I'm hoping for an easier solution.

As for the vendor, I don't think he's a PS vendor, although I believe he has posted on these forums before.

Any vendors here who can comment on my predicament?
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

Pink Tower|1308105492|2946219 said:
I would be in my Bank Branch manager's office first thing in the morning and get all questions clarified. They can probably get in touch with the Federal Reserve for you and get some action between the banks.
Thanks for the suggestion! I have talked with my bank on the phone and they said there's nothing they can do, but maybe an in-person visit will accomplish more.
 

thk3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
32
Re: Refund Problems

For what its worth I bought a diamond online and the vendor (reputable PS vendor) accidentally charged me twice. It took 30 days for the extra charge to fall off my credit card because of the fraudulent charge problem you mentioned. In order to quicken the process I would have had to have the vendor contact my CC company to verify the refund. I just waited and let it fall off, but maybe you should have your bank contact him directly.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
Re: Refund Problems

Best case -- he doesn't have a lot of experience with wire transfers and may have misunderstood what his bank told him.

Worst case -- he's spent some or all of your money, and does not have it to give back to you, and that's why he's stalling. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you did do as he asked, and waited the 60 - 90 days, he wouldn't have the money then either.

I don't think your bank can do anything, nor can his, on your behalf, without legal action. If he continues to stall and/or you can't verify the fraud explanation he's giving you, what I'd do is ask him to ship me the diamond, and I'd hold it for 60 - 90 days as collateral (with a written agreement in place so you don't get stuck with a diamond you don't want) because, honestly, he sounds like a guy who is having business trouble.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, and I hope my suspicions turn out to be wrong.

ETA: Just read thk3's post, and, yes, this has happened to me (not with diamond purchases) too, with credit card refunds, but the "hold" is lifted in one billing one billing cycle, not 60 - 90 days!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Refund Problems

No way jose. I would not stand for a vendor holding my money for a month and a half. I don't care if the issue he suggests is real, he needs to get you your money in another way. Tell him to send you a check if he will not send a bank wire. That is how refunds are issued by some other PS vendors I believe.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,060
Re: Refund Problems

:errrr: ..the name of this crook?.. ::)
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Re: Refund Problems

Where are you located and where is the vendor located? I'm asking because I have a friend who is a head investigational officer for Gov. Corp. and consumer fraud, I can call his office tomorrow to see what he recommends but I need to know jurisdiction.

Quite frankly I'm not buying what he's saying at all, nothing adds up. It's an elaborate explanation he's spinning you and it's too elaborate by far to be simple misunderstanding of his bank's protocol. You cannot reverse a bank wire, and the statement he made that his bank said it could be reversed anywhere from 60-90 days is BS - is it 60 or is it 90?! - neither, banks don't work that way, transactions take "up to" X amount of days, they don't beat around the bush with variables like this, banks are simply not that inefficient.

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt but this is a business transaction, he's a businessman, he's biding time for what ever personal reason, but he's not being honest.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Refund Problems

I agree, this is total BS. He can send you a check! This elaborate story is crap.

I read your post to my husband and his reaction: "He doesn't have the money to refund you."
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
Re: Refund Problems

Dreamer_D|1308112425|2946330 said:
I agree, this is total BS. He can send you a check! This elaborate story is crap.

I read your post to my husband and his reaction: "He doesn't have the money to refund you."
Ditto. And I call that theft.

(dmd4ever: Your bank is not going to be able to do a thing. You authorized the transfer and his account received it. You need to tell him you have given him long enough and you would kindly appreciate the refund to arrive by certified check within 3 days or you will be forced to report it to the authorities, the BBB, and PS!!!!)
 

100

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
33
Re: Refund Problems

Please post the vendor so other potential shoppers don't fall for this problem?

I would suggest you to call the manager of the bank you wire the money to, then politely explain the issue to him/her, then ask the manager to stay on the line while you make a 3 ways calling to the jeweler. Then start your conversation normally while letting the manager hear the excuse? So he know he is busted right there :)
 

iota15

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
1,278
Re: Refund Problems

This is ludicrous. I'm thinking he doesn't have the money to give you either. Give him another day to wire the money over. If it's not in your account, by wire, in two days - I would post his name here.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

maplefemme|1308112117|2946325 said:
Where are you located and where is the vendor located? I'm asking because I have a friend who is a head investigational officer for Gov. Corp. and consumer fraud, I can call his office tomorrow to see what he recommends but I need to know jurisdiction.
Thanks for the offer. I am in Oregon and he is in Los Angeles. His bank is CitiBank. Appreciate anything you can do.

For everyone who said this is bullshit and he probably doesn't have the money or wants to make some interest, etc., that's exactly my concern. I was just hoping that by posting here I could see if any vendors could chime in to say whether there is any possible way this could be a legit excuse. Maybe tomorrow during business hours some of them can chime in? Please?

I just want to get all my facts straight before I do something more drastic like filing a lawsuit or calling the police. I am going to go to my bank in person tomorrow and have them call Citibank to see if there could be any confusion about what is being told to the vendor.

Assuming no vendor chimes in on this thread tomorrow with a convincing story, and assuming my bank is not successful at helping me (both likely), I plan to give him 48 hours to refund my money before I report him to the BBB and any other trade organizations he lists on his website, list his business name here, which is certainly bad publicity, and more importantly contact my attorney friends in LA to get a referral to someone who can take this guy to court. Not what I want because if he doesn't have the money, the court can't make him give it to me, and secondly, even if I get the money, the courts are not exactly speedy. Depending on what the banks say, I could also call the police, but I really don't think this is the type of thing they get involved with. Maybe I'm better off seeing if any of my lawschool classmates ended up in the US Attorneys office, as this kind of stunt involved an interstate wire transfer and could be a federal offense.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

kenny|1308118624|2946381 said:
Per this list, Mark Broumand, Icestore and Adiamor are the only PS Vendors in the Los Angeles area.
https://www.pricescope.com/featured-sponsors/

Is it someone else?
Yes, it's not any of them. I would have gone with someone like BGD, which is where I got my current diamond, but until a month ago I had been searching for a very unique cut that no one could track down (literally, GOG and WF told me they had no idea where to get one) and he was one of the few people that had access to what I was looking for. I will post his name here after giving him a final ultimatum and chance to refund my money as I discussed above.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

slg47|1308120715|2946389 said:
I am curious as to the cut!
It was a 9.1mm "Rising Star" cut diamond: http://www.israelidiamond.co.il/english/News.aspx?boneId=1319&objid=2048

It would have been a really cool ER, but Leon Mege talked me out of it. By the way, so many people here say they have problems with Leon, but I just called him up out of the blue and he spent almost an hour talking to me about the diamond, about design ideas, and ultimately convincing me to talk to my girlfriend to really make sure it was what she wanted as it was so out of the mainstream. She did really like it (it was initially her idea), but after a lot of thought decided she wanted something more traditional. Anyway, can't say enough good stuff about Leon.
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Re: Refund Problems

dmd4ever|1308117918|2946375 said:
maplefemme|1308112117|2946325 said:
Where are you located and where is the vendor located? I'm asking because I have a friend who is a head investigational officer for Gov. Corp. and consumer fraud, I can call his office tomorrow to see what he recommends but I need to know jurisdiction.
Thanks for the offer. I am in Oregon and he is in Los Angeles. His bank is CitiBank. Appreciate anything you can do.

For everyone who said this is bullshit and he probably doesn't have the money or wants to make some interest, etc., that's exactly my concern. I was just hoping that by posting here I could see if any vendors could chime in to say whether there is any possible way this could be a legit excuse. Maybe tomorrow during business hours some of them can chime in? Please?

I just want to get all my facts straight before I do something more drastic like filing a lawsuit or calling the police. I am going to go to my bank in person tomorrow and have them call Citibank to see if there could be any confusion about what is being told to the vendor.

Assuming no vendor chimes in on this thread tomorrow with a convincing story, and assuming my bank is not successful at helping me (both likely), I plan to give him 48 hours to refund my money before I report him to the BBB and any other trade organizations he lists on his website, list his business name here, which is certainly bad publicity, and more importantly contact my attorney friends in LA to get a referral to someone who can take this guy to court. Not what I want because if he doesn't have the money, the court can't make him give it to me, and secondly, even if I get the money, the courts are not exactly speedy. Depending on what the banks say, I could also call the police, but I really don't think this is the type of thing they get involved with. Maybe I'm better off seeing if any of my lawschool classmates ended up in the US Attorneys office, as this kind of stunt involved an interstate wire transfer and could be a federal offense.
I'll call him in the morning and see what he says, it was just too late to call tonight...

I understand what you're going through perhaps, I had a similar thing happen to me, the vendor wanted to keep 25% of the total cost of the stone as a restocking fee ($4,000) for an already in-stock diamond still sitting loose in his vault, it never left his possession.
I thankfully found PS and GOG and realized the diamond I put a deposit on was no good.
Now in defense of vendors, they have to look after themselves too from an economic business standpoint and I respect that completely. However, this vendor has no website, nothing given to me in writing (or verbally) mentioning policies for returns and/or exchanges and I signed nothing. I just got a receipt for my deposit on letterhead with cert. details on it.
One of my work associates is good friends with this man, she referred me...the whole thing put me in a very difficult professional predicament.

I really want to see you get your money back :angryfire:

Edited to say I agree with your plan of action, BBB is a soft touch with resolution but good to give other potential buyers a heads up, I think utilizing your contacts for a more hardline approach would be helpful.
 

100

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
33
Re: Refund Problems

My experience is that BBB is not going to do anything for you. I am sure someone else will say something different, or even positive, but as my own experience and others that I've spoken with. BBB is a joke.
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Re: Refund Problems

100|1308123173|2946397 said:
My experience is that BBB is not going to do anything for you. I am sure someone else will say something different, or even positive, but as my own experience and others that I've spoken with. BBB is a joke.
I agree, they mediate at best, they have no muscle.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Refund Problems

maplefemme|1308124702|2946406 said:
100|1308123173|2946397 said:
My experience is that BBB is not going to do anything for you. I am sure someone else will say something different, or even positive, but as my own experience and others that I've spoken with. BBB is a joke.
I agree, they mediate at best, they have no muscle.
Agreed, but smart businessmen don't want bad publicity, particularly in the age of social media and the Internet. I believe that giving him the ultimatum along with draft letters to the BBB, etc. demonstrates that I'm serious and gives him a moment to think about the potential effect on his reputation.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
Re: Refund Problems

Well that comes in handy that you are an attorney. I would simply tell him you are an attorney and have checked on the wire transfer and know that it has been completed and the bank says there is no reason your refund shouldn't have been done immediately. I would start out by saying that you hope it is just a misunderstanding on his part and that you expect the money to be either wired back or sent by certified check overnight and he has 3 days to complete these transactions before you pursue further options to get your money back. If he starts to delay again, then you can pull out some of your options like calling an attorney, the police (tell him that anyway), BBB, PriceScope, etc.

Maybe a vendor will reply today, but I will say that I have been here for over 5 years and have never seen this happen before. I have returned stones before and have had money returned by check and it was within a couple of weeks.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
Re: Refund Problems

I doubt if any vendors will stick their necks out on this. Don't waste your time with the BBB -- except maybe check with them to see if this business has already had complaints (and what kinds of complaints) filed against it for similar tactics. The longer you wait to take legal action, the less likely you are to recover any of your money. If you've got friends who practice in the area of collections/fraud, I'd be giving them a call sooner rather than later.
 
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