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Member Who Is As Old As Dirt Has A Newcomer's Question!

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Princess Cut!

I have been here forever, but I have only bought round brilliant, and one pair of pear, stones in all my diamond buying years! (And I needed help with the pears!)

Andrey most generously gave me $1,100.00 in gifts for for allegedly being an asset to Pricescope and for hitting the magic 10,000 number of postings! Since I very much want to set a red spinel that I bought, I have been looking for diamond sidestones. At first I thought that I would go with pears or marquises, but my latest idea is to use two Princess cut stones in kite settings on either side of my oval spinel.

I have looked at the websites of some featured Pricescope sponsors and found one Princess cut diamond that I thought was worth running by you. From its dimensions it does not seem perfectly square, but I don't know if that matters. I will tell you what matters to me. I am looking for a D colored stone of about 1/2 carat in clarity that is no lower than VS2. I wanted an ideal or excellent cut stone that would sparkle. However, I wanted to avoid any stone with a chip or any inclusions that might put it in danger or be very visible with a loupe. (I saw some VS2 stones that had multiple inclusions and in the photos I clearly saw the inclusions without a virtual loupe. I have no idea if the stones were actually eye clean. How could I?)

This stone has symmetry and polish that are only, "very good". Are the proportions OK? I can't get everything and it is a VS1, which I like. The inclusions seem really minimal. The price is $1300.00.

depth 73.6
table 73.0
measurements 4.50 x 4.45 x 3.28
fluorescence medium blue
girdle medium thick
clarity VS1
polish very good
symmetry very good
GIA cert 6127574864

I am looking forward to your input! Thank you.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
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first of all, congratulations!

do you have any pictures? with princess cuts it is impossible to go by the numbers. also, do you plan on purchasing both sidestones at the same time?

I would think most VS2 at that size would be eye-clean but you could always ask the vendor to check.
 

AGBF

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slg47|1311615424|2976393 said:
first of all, congratulations!

do you have any pictures? with princess cuts it is impossible to go by the numbers. also, do you plan on purchasing both sidestones at the same time?

I would think most VS2 at that size would be eye-clean but you could always ask the vendor to check.
Thank you, slg! I have no pictures. I was trying not to involve a vendor yet! I didn't want to bother the vendor if I wasn't sure I was going to buy from "his" website. (The website on which I was browsing is one I have bought from before, but so are several other featured Pricescope sponsors!)

Thanks.

Deb
:read:
 

Haven

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I can't help you with your question, but I had to pop in and say that this is my favorite thread title ever!
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Haven|1311616245|2976405 said:
I can't help you with your question, but I had to pop in and say that this is my favorite thread title ever!
Thank you, Haven. You are very kind. I may never get my ring made, but at least I can bask in pride at my cleverness in thinking up that title.

Deb
:read:
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
242
Congratulations!

Finding matching side stones really is a art form, personally I would recommend choosing what vendors you would like to get quotes from and see what they can come up with for you. To pick a great set you really do need many diamonds in front of you to find the ones that are most visually identical.

As far as do they need to be perfectly square? If they are really small you can get away with a little asymmetry, or if you are going to bezel set them. But for the most part YES, it really does matter, putting a princess cut in a kite setting will really show up the uneveness in the cut and you will end up with a really wonky looking ring.

I really like your idea of pear side stones because the will tuck in nice and close to your center stone.
 

jaebond

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In my very (VERY) unexpert opinion, I would say that the table % is too large. I believe that you want to try to keep it under 68%.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Deb I really suggest that if optical performance if important to you -- and it should be 8) -- that you look for princess stones that have an AGS0 cut grade on the AGS lab report. AGS is the only lab that actually grades cut quality on princess cuts, so any label (like VG) applied by vendors to stones without an AGS report are quite meaningless I am afraid. The other option is to search for stones from a vendor who offers pictures and who can provide other technilogy if you want that will allow you to assess cut quality. But you will likely pay more for either of these options. I suppose you need to decide what is most important to you - -color, clarity, or cut. I would always recommend optimizing the latter, but it is your choice of course!

Here is an example of the price for a truly top cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8117/

Not a D color:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2675104.htm

James Allen is a good vendor because they offer photos of their diamonds, you can try searching them (I can't from this computer.)
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Messages
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[quote="AGBF|1311614322|2976388
depth 73.6
table 73.0
measurements 4.50 x 4.45 x 3.28
fluorescence medium blue
girdle medium thick
clarity VS1
polish very good
symmetry very good
GIA cert 6127574864

[/quote]

Can't tell much from the numbers, but the table does seem large for a well performing stone. I think in princesses it is better to see a table under 70%, maybe 71%, but that is really a rough guide.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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21,819
Mike R|1311617673|2976426 said:
Congratulations!

Finding matching side stones really is a art form, personally I would recommend choosing what vendors you would like to get quotes from and see what they can come up with for you. To pick a great set you really do need many diamonds in front of you to find the ones that are most visually identical.

As far as do they need to be perfectly square? If they are really small you can get away with a little asymmetry, or if you are going to bezel set them. But for the most part YES, it really does matter, putting a princess cut in a kite setting will really show up the uneveness in the cut and you will end up with a really wonky looking ring.

I really like your idea of pear side stones because the will tuck in nice and close to your center stone.
Thank you for your advice, Mike. I looked at your website and see that I should not take it lightly! You are clearly a design expert!!! I am posting a photo of another ring I have to show you why I would prefer not to go with pears again: I have used them once already. I do not want to wear the same ring in different colors and never vary my design at all. I am highly conventional as it is, and all I planned to do with the Princess cuts was to balance them on either side of the oval! (Not very wild.) Let me post a photo of the setting I hoped to use as inspiration for the Princess cuts. The kite settings do not tuck in, but I like the way they look!

Best,
Deb/AGBF
:read:

MyOtherOvalWithSidePears.jpg
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dreamer_D|1311619241|2976440 said:
Deb I really suggest that if optical performance if important to you -- and it should be 8) -- that you look for princess stones that have an AGS0 cut grade on the AGS lab report. AGS is the only lab that actually grades cut quality on princess cuts, so any label (like VG) applied by vendors to stones without an AGS report are quite meaningless I am afraid. The other option is to search for stones from a vendor who offers pictures and who can provide other technilogy if you want that will allow you to assess cut quality. But you will likely pay more for either of these options. I suppose you need to decide what is most important to you - -color, clarity, or cut. I would always recommend optimizing the latter, but it is your choice of course!

Here is an example of the price for a truly top cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8117/

Not a D color:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2675104.htm

James Allen is a good vendor because they offer photos of their diamonds, you can try searching them (I can't from this computer.)
Dreamer-

I have been to James Allen's site and have browsed there. I love the feature of being able to look at the actual diamond, which I cannot do at Whiteflash. I have also looked for the "A Cut Above" diamonds (as well as others) at Whiteflash, but only the D colored ones, which reduced the number of stones available. Jonathan's site (Good Old Gold) didn't appear to have a search engine for stones of under 1 carat, but I love Jonathan's upgrade policy and swore that my next diamond would be from him. (That was before I knew I would be getting a Pricescope gift, though!) So all your advice falls within the parameters of what my own thinking had already been. It is just a lot keener!!! Thank you!!!

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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AGBF|1311620851|2976474 said:
Dreamer_D|1311619241|2976440 said:
Deb I really suggest that if optical performance if important to you -- and it should be 8) -- that you look for princess stones that have an AGS0 cut grade on the AGS lab report. AGS is the only lab that actually grades cut quality on princess cuts, so any label (like VG) applied by vendors to stones without an AGS report are quite meaningless I am afraid. The other option is to search for stones from a vendor who offers pictures and who can provide other technilogy if you want that will allow you to assess cut quality. But you will likely pay more for either of these options. I suppose you need to decide what is most important to you - -color, clarity, or cut. I would always recommend optimizing the latter, but it is your choice of course!

Here is an example of the price for a truly top cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8117/

Not a D color:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2675104.htm

James Allen is a good vendor because they offer photos of their diamonds, you can try searching them (I can't from this computer.)
Dreamer-

I have been to James Allen's site and have browsed there. I love the feature of being able to look at the actual diamond, which I cannot do at Whiteflash. I have also looked for the "A Cut Above" diamonds (as well as others) at Whiteflash, but only the D colored ones, which reduced the number of stones available. Jonathan's site (Good Old Gold) didn't appear to have a search engine for stones of under 1 carat, but I love Jonathan's upgrade policy and swore that my next diamond would be from him. (That was before I knew I would be getting a Pricescope gift, though!) So all your advice falls within the parameters of what my own thinking had already been. It is just a lot keener!!! Thank you!!!

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
You are welcome! WF and GOG can access many other stones than the ones in their inventory, a call to get them looking for options could be beneficial, especially since what you are looking for is unlikely to turn up in their invenotry any time soon -- high color/clarity seems less popular in general.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dreamer_D|1311619241|2976440 said:
Here is an example of the price for a truly top cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8117/
OK...I wrote to Jonathan earlier today and asked if he could match the first stone that is posted above, the one Dreamer found. But in the meantime I thought I'd haul out one I had found on the Whiteflash site the other night. I want all the engineers on this one! Do these two diamonds match? It would mean my buying one from one vendor and one from another and I don't want "a really wonky looking ring" of the kind I was just warned about above! I am not going to try to match diamonds by myself!!! But supposedly these are two perfect diamonds of the same carat weight. Shouldn't they match?

My question is: do they?

Where are the engineers? Start measuring the angles and the light return!!!

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2623354.htm

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
24,114
Deb, congratulations on such a wonderful gift. :appl: :appl: What shape is your spinel? (Sorry if I missed it somewhere here). For side stones I would go for cut first and drop in color. I am sure any of the vendors here can find you a pair of PC diamonds they think match each other. What a fun project.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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AGBF|1311634488|2976640 said:
Dreamer_D|1311619241|2976440 said:
Here is an example of the price for a truly top cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8117/
OK...I wrote to Jonathan earlier today and asked if he could match the first stone that is posted above, the one Dreamer found. But in the meantime I thought I'd haul out one I had found on the Whiteflash site the other night. I want all the engineers on this one! Do these two diamonds match? It would mean my buying one from one vendor and one from another and I don't want "a really wonky looking ring" of the kind I was just warned about above! I am not going to try to match diamonds by myself!!! But supposedly these are two perfect diamonds of the same carat weight. Shouldn't they match?

My question is: do they?

Where are the engineers? Start measuring the angles and the light return!!!

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2623354.htm

Deb/AGBF
:read:
The face up measurements are the same, or certainly close enough for ME being within a few hundred of mm in either direction, so in that regard they are a good match. The table sizes are different by about 7%. But in that size stone and in a princess I don't know if it would matter as much. In rounds it is one of the things you want to match, and in a larger princess it *could* be noticable that one has a larger table when the light reflects off them. But in this size, with both having nice small tables i nthe desirable range (56% and 49%), it might not matter. The reps at WF and GOG could likely tell you if they thought it would matter.
 

diamondseeker2006

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56,129
Deb, I'd just let the vendor match the stones and buy both from the same place. If for any reason you change your mind, it is going to be far easier to deal with an exchange with one vendor. Unless the D color is just a mental thing (which I understand), I'd look at E at least just to give you some more options because most of us could never tell the difference between D and E color.

Actually, Jonathan has what looks like a very nice match to the stone that Dreamer posted:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8116/
 

jaebond

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
208
diamondseeker2006|1311640748|2976716 said:
Deb, I'd just let the vendor match the stones and buy both from the same place. If for any reason you change your mind, it is going to be far easier to deal with an exchange with one vendor. Unless the D color is just a mental thing (which I understand), I'd look at E at least just to give you some more options because most of us could never tell the difference between D and E color.

Actually, Jonathan has what looks like a very nice match to the stone that Dreamer posted:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8116/
I, personally, would worry that this diamond and the WF one are getting a little rectangular, especially from what Mike said, but that's just me.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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diamondseeker2006|1311640748|2976716 said:
Deb, I'd just let the vendor match the stones and buy both from the same place. If for any reason you change your mind, it is going to be far easier to deal with an exchange with one vendor. Unless the D color is just a mental thing (which I understand), I'd look at E at least just to give you some more options because most of us could never tell the difference between D and E color.

Actually, Jonathan has what looks like a very nice match to the stone that Dreamer posted:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8116/
Hi, Friend!

I saw that stone. I know I'm crazy and I know Jonathan would try to reason with me, but I am sick of collecting E stones. This is only a tiny stone anyway, but if I had never gotten a lower color stone, think of all the D colored diamonds I'd have now!

Deb
:saint:
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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jaebond|1311641392|2976724 said:
diamondseeker2006|1311640748|2976716 said:
Deb, I'd just let the vendor match the stones and buy both from the same place. If for any reason you change your mind, it is going to be far easier to deal with an exchange with one vendor. Unless the D color is just a mental thing (which I understand), I'd look at E at least just to give you some more options because most of us could never tell the difference between D and E color.

Actually, Jonathan has what looks like a very nice match to the stone that Dreamer posted:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8116/

I, personally, would worry that this diamond and the WF one are getting a little rectangular, especially from what Mike said, but that's just me.

Thanks for your help, jaebond, I'm willing to worry about anything.

What can I do? AGS apparently gives gives its 0 rating to stones that aren't perfectly square!!!

Deb
:read:
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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marcy|1311638812|2976687 said:
Deb, congratulations on such a wonderful gift. :appl: :appl: What shape is your spinel? (Sorry if I missed it somewhere here). For side stones I would go for cut first and drop in color. I am sure any of the vendors here can find you a pair of PC diamonds they think match each other. What a fun project.
marcy-

It's an oval. But I can't drop in color. It's psychological. I can switch cuts, perhaps, but not diamond color. Thanks for your kind words and your help!

Deb
:read:
 

jaebond

Shiny_Rock
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AGBF|1311646541|2976816 said:
jaebond|1311641392|2976724 said:
Thanks for your help, jaebond, I'm willing to worry about anything.

What can I do? AGS apparently gives gives its 0 rating to stones that aren't perfectly square!!!

Deb
:read:
The AGS cut grade only has to do with light performance (I believe), I don't believe it has anything to do with any physical measurements.
 

Stone-cold11

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The stones has less than 1.05 l/w ratio, the standard for square. Probably if more than that, AGS will downgrade the overall cut grade, probably in the symm grade.
 

AGBF

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Stone-cold11|1311676530|2976966 said:
The stones has less than 1.05 l/w ratio, the standard for square. Probably if more than that, AGS will downgrade the overall cut grade, probably in the symm grade.
Thanks, Stone-cold; your knowledge of what is considered square was appreciated. I know I can count on you for mathematical questions! I feel reassured about the Princess cuts that have AGS 0 grades for cut.

I decided to ask Jonathan of Good Old Gold to try to match his .49 carat stone for me and he going to try to do so. If he can, I will use my Pricescope bounty towards that beautiful Princess cut! I love Jonathan's trade-up policy and he knocked himself out looking for stones I didn't end up buying about a year ago! (I was thinking of getting AVCs for earrings then decided that that cut looked good only on larger stones.)

I will have to see what Jonathan comes up with to match the first stone!

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 

marcy

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Deb, i completely understand the color preference. I am excited to see what they find for you. I think the PC side stones with an oval spinel will be gorgeous. :appl: :appl:
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Sounds like a good plan!

I admit, I am not the biggest fan of the PCs with your oval and would prefer dainty rounds like ephemery's ring (a la your other thread), but it is your ring and with the color of your spinel and the bright white of the Ds, well it is hard to go wrong really!
 

AGBF

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Dreamer_D|1311792777|2978177 said:
I admit, I am not the biggest fan of the PCs with your oval and would prefer dainty rounds like ephemery's ring (a la your other thread), but it is your ring and with the color of your spinel and the bright white of the Ds, well it is hard to go wrong really!
Dreamer-

If I could achieve ephemery's ring by simply adding small round diamonds to my spinel, I would. But I cannot. I looked at her ring and thought about it a lot. Her ring is so special because it is all diamonds. It is ethereal and looks as if the angels made it. Mine will be red. One cannot compare apples to oranges.

I hope I am not making a mistake by not using pears, however! If other people think Princess stones in kite settings are bad idea (see thread below) , let me know! I'll still be getting them from Jonathan if he can supply matched D colored stones in ideal cuts!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-me-find-a-red-stone-a-red-spinel-or-a-ruby.155192/page-12']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-me-find-a-red-stone-a-red-spinel-or-a-ruby.155192/page-12[/URL]

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
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