lost stone from Niessing tension ring

[Greg]

Pictures of the damaged ring yet?

 

[Iceman]

I sorry I never learned how to sugar coat anything, just the straight truth.

I cant side with you and feel right its not in my nature. You should know that from Diamondtalk.

 

[Iceman]

Does everybody get tired of being politically correct all the time

Have fun.

 

[glitterata]

It's true we don't know what happened to this particular ring. However, the manufacturer has come on this board and told us that it could have been damaged when the wearer clapped her hands in the theater, and that his warrantee wouldn't cover that situation. That's what's getting me (and probably other posters) so steamed. What good is a warrantee that doesn't cover a situation so ordinary as clapping in a theater? Nobody MADE the guy offer a warrantee. But if he did, it should cover this very normal situation. Otherwise it's misleading.

Suppose you're considering buying a tension ring. It looks risky. But the manufacturer has so much confidence in it that he offers a guarantee, so you go ahead and buy it. Then later on you learn that the guarantee doesn't cover a perfectly normal situation like clapping your hands in the theater. If I were the buyer, I would feel as if the manufacturer had tricked me into buying the product by offering false reassurance.

If you don't think your product can hold up to normal wear and tear such as clapping in a theater, don't guarantee it. If you do guarantee it, honor your guarantee! It's as simple as that.

 

[canuk-gal]

----------------
a bar. Our bartop is hard tile. You can imagine how many times I have slammed a beer on that hard bar, and yes I have banged the hell out of my rings. I have a pinky tension sapphire ring that I wear ALL the time. Well, after 3 years of slamming beers, the sapphire is still in its rightful place

. But if it were to fall out, then it would be my fault~! I abuse rings! Period~!

Beer slamming eh? This begs the question whether establishments in the red light districts of Amsterdam should post signs reading; "Management does not accept responsibility for damage to jewellery worn while"......

Politically correct--I think not!

cheers

Sharon

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 11:58:06 AM starfire wrote:

Hi F&I,

Actually, I do not think Iceman believes the customer is always wrong. What he is saying is, I believe, some PS readers choose to ignore professional opinion from the manufacturer and from a couple of experts in the field (one of which is David Atlas, who was very fair on both sides), and choose to aggressively attack the manufacturer.

Despite the experts view that there are some unavoidable aspects of jewelry manufacture and care, it seems that some 'expert consumers' choose to hit out at jewelry companies rather than face up to personal responsibility of taking care of jewelry.

It is so easy to assume that the manufacturer must take care of all risks,and take no responsibility for one's own behaviour. If you must find someone to take care of the risks when you wear your jewelry, I suggest that you insure your jewelry. The onus of doing this is on the jewelry wearer/owner, not the manufacturer.

No jewelry manufacturer can give warranty against ALL risks including wear and tear. That would be prohibitively expensive, and the costs will be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.

Using personal attacks to try to gain the upper hand is counter-productive.

My 2 cent's worth.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

----------------
----------------

Who said anything about a consumer not taking responsibility? And, you seem to think that the onus is on the consumer to *prove* that the ring was properly cared for. And, when handclapping can be suggested abuse is when I became suspicious about the duribility of the setting. I am basing my strong reaction to the manner in which Nies has responded thus far. Unreasonable to me. First, the form letter. Then the consumer post publicly. And, then *all of a sudden* Nies is trying to work this out when *in writing* Nies takes *no* responsibility.

And, I'm not going on the absolute assumption that the consumer did not exercise *reasonable* care. Handclapping - ?

Heck must have frozen over because I'm with Greg - where are the pictures of the damage? I have not been impressed w/ Nies's handling thus far; but, I will keep an open mind.

IMHO, it is Nies that has not taken responsibility by turning the tables back to the consumer.

I'm usually pretty vendor friendly. But, it's the shifting of blame immediately to the consumer that is making me not respect this manufacturer.

 

[starfire]

Hi glitterata,

As I mentioned earlier, jewellers can only warranty against manufacturer's defects and workmanship. These are the only factors manufacturers can control.

Once it leaves the showroom, the only people that can be responsible for the ring is the wearer. I hope that you can accept this logic.

Here, we do not know what the retailer representing Niessing said to Domen when he purchased the ring. It could be that the salesman at the retailer was over-enthusiastic and mis-represented the manufacturer's warranty. If this is the case, I do not think it is right to criticise the manufacturer for it. But since we all do not know the facts, why not give it the benefit of the doubt?

Again, I mentioned the need for wearers to take personal responsibility for their jewelry care. I hope that this concept is not too difficult to grasp.

----------------
On 7/29/2004 12:22:05 PM glitterata wrote:

It's true we don't know what happened to this particular ring. However, the manufacturer has come on this board and told us that it could have been damaged when the wearer clapped her hands in the theater, and that his warrantee wouldn't cover that situation. That's what's getting me (and probably other posters) so steamed. What good is a warrantee that doesn't cover a situation so ordinary as clapping in a theater? Nobody MADE the guy offer a warrantee. But if he did, it should cover this very normal situation. Otherwise it's misleading.

Suppose you're considering buying a tension ring. It looks risky. But the manufacturer has so much confidence in it that he offers a guarantee, so you go ahead and buy it. Then later on you learn that the guarantee doesn't cover a perfectly normal situation like clapping your hands in the theater. If I were the buyer, I would feel as if the manufacturer had tricked me into buying the product by offering false reassurance.

If you don't think your product can hold up to normal wear and tear such as clapping in a theater, don't guarantee it. If you do guarantee it, honor your guarantee! It's as simple as that.----------------

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 12:22:05 PM glitterata wrote:

It's true we don't know what happened to this particular ring. However, the manufacturer has come on this board and told us that it could have been damaged when the wearer clapped her hands in the theater, and that his warrantee wouldn't cover that situation. That's what's getting me (and probably other posters) so steamed. What good is a warrantee that doesn't cover a situation so ordinary as clapping in a theater? Nobody MADE the guy offer a warrantee. But if he did, it should cover this very normal situation. Otherwise it's misleading.

Suppose you're considering buying a tension ring. It looks risky. But the manufacturer has so much confidence in it that he offers a guarantee, so you go ahead and buy it. Then later on you learn that the guarantee doesn't cover a perfectly normal situation like clapping your hands in the theater. If I were the buyer, I would feel as if the manufacturer had tricked me into buying the product by offering false reassurance.

If you don't think your product can hold up to normal wear and tear such as clapping in a theater, don't guarantee it. If you do guarantee it, honor your guarantee! It's as simple as that.----------------

-

You said it better than I. I can not concur more. It is *exactly* the way I feel.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 12:32:56 PM starfire wrote:

Hi glitterata,

As I mentioned earlier, jewellers can only warranty against manufacturer's defects and workmanship. These are the only factors manufacturers can control.

Once it leaves the showroom, the only people that can be responsible for the ring is the wearer. I hope that you can accept this logic.

----------------

While I agree that consumers take responsibility for reasonable care of their jewelry, define "reasonable".

Also, the onus is on the manufacturer to make a reasonable effort to ensure their setting is secure.

So, one can manufacture a high chair for a baby. The high chair is without defects or poor craftsmanship. But, when bumped into, it tips over easily. Serious design flaw. IMHO, the high chair company is to blame. One can not expect the owner to walk on eggs for this particular design.

 

[kevinng]

From what I read... it seems that this is the case:

1. The jeweller that sold the ring to Domen misrepresented the gaurantee. Niessing never gauranteed that the diamond will not fall out under normal wear and tear. Niessing just gaurantees that there are no manufacturing defects.

2. Tension rings are not safe, even if it is made by the best tension ring manufacturer, with no manufacturing defects. The diamond can fall out under normal wear and tear, like hand clapping. This makes sense because the tension is maintained by the entire ring shank. Impact on any part of the ring causes the structure to weaken. For prong set rings, we can clap, bang tables, slap your spouse for not buying you a tension ring, etc... and the structure would be safe. This is because impact on the bottom of the ring does not affect the prongs that hold the diamond, unlike tension rings.

3. If you wear a tension ring, insure it.

4. If you wear a tension ring, exercise extra care not to apply undue stress to any part of the ring. Try to wear it only for special occasions. Try not to wear it out on a daily basis, especially when you are running errands or working with your hands.

5. If the ring has emotional value, like an engagement ring, do not set in in a tension ring. Else, your memories may be lost forever.

6. If you are an insurance company, raise your premium for tension rings.

That's the messages I got. Did I miss anything?

 

[fire&ice]

...about sums it up except

...if your setting is Niessing, expect the company to assume the consumer is at fault if something goes wrong.

I'm still waiting for pics of the abuse.

 

[kevinng]

I cannot agree with the high chair example, fire&ice. Where lives are involved, especially babies, we move into a different realm, both morally and legally. That would be stretching it a bit too far.

 

[kevinng]

But I do agree that Niessing should not postulate situations that would ascribe blame to the customer without first conducting a thorough study. That would appear to be biased from the start.

 

[Niessing]

Ok. Let's try it one more time.

There are thousands and thousands of people (mainly women) wearing Niessing Tension Settings daily. Since 25 years. As wedding rings, engagement rings, jewelry rings. Niessing has developed the best Know How to secure the most precious diamonds in our settings. Go, ask those people. They'll tell you that Niessing quality is excellent. They love their rings.

On the other hand: sad things happen. Accidents happen. There is no difference in the world of jewelry. Rings may be destroyed, diamonds may crack. But never because of nothing. There's always a cause. Ask your jewelers, they'll know the stories. If an accident happens: We examine. We care. We find a good solution. We are honest.

A little story of our daily routine: We received a wedding ring today. Brandnew. After the wedding, two diamonds were destroyed, the surface was hammered. What had happened?

The bride herself told her jeweler, he told us. We will fix the ring asap. She'll be happy again.

So please: Let's come to the facts. Calm down. Think.

Thank You.

Niessing

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 1:02:25 PM kevinng wrote:

I cannot agree with the high chair example, fire&ice. Where lives are involved, especially babies, we move into a different realm, both morally and legally. That would be stretching it a bit too far.----------------

Then insert any consumer product. My point is that designers/manufacturers are held to more accountablity than just guaranteeing the item free of defects in manufacturing (as Starfire suggested the "guarantee" to only be subject to). My husband is held accountable as an Architect to more than just safety issues. He is held accountable for lack of convenience in the design. The setting should be more reliable than jarring from handclapping.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 1:05:14 PM Niessing wrote:

Ok. Let's try it one more time.

So please: Let's come to the facts. Calm down. Think.

Thank You.

Niessing----------------

Well, where is the proof of abuse of this setting? Or is the book closed and the consumer is too accept responsibility of not caring for the setting.

 

[kevinng]

I am very calm, Thomas.

I am very sure that Niessing is a good company, who cares a great deal about quality. I have had the pleasure of dealing with several Germans before, and I know how precise they can be. There is no doubt that your company will try to be as fair and scientific as possible when you investigate each case.

However, I am just highlighting the messages you are sending across to consumers in this forum does not seem to be in line with the values your company uphold. I am very sure that it is a case of miscommunication and I was hoping that you would set things right.

Where examples are given, inferences will be drawn. I doubt that your intended message is as per the 6 points I raised above. However, as a consumer on this forum, those are the messages I received.

 

[scotch]

So, has any progress been made on the facts? I think not. So far, a lot of speculation and emotions. Several people have asked for pictures of the damaged ring, how about that? After all, Niessing's initial response contained this statement:

----------------
... But there are clear
marks on the ring indicating that the ring was subject to a hard stroke or hit from outside which led to the loss
of the diamond, i.e. an impact that normally does not occur with the regular daily wear and tear.
...----------------

What is the exact nature of the damage? Domen, can you describe it more, and do you have a picture? Certainly Niessing must have photographed the ring, with the alleged damage clearly showing?

Maybe the hand clapping example was not the best one to pick, I'm sure Mr. Nuenning regrets having brought it up. He may have mentioned it to illustrate that weird things can happen, as a remote possibility. I cannot see how this would cause the damage described by Niessing in their initial response, so it's most likely not what happened. This has clearly rubbed some people the wrong way, now would you please get over it already.

After all, Niessing has offered to work with Domen towards a solution. Domen, have they contacted you directly to confirm, or have you reacted? Some have expressed displeasure about Niessing having reacted only after Domen posted here. But really, what would you expect? A customer walks into your store who lost a $10,000 diamond and claims it "fell out" for no particular reason. You examine the ring, and you think you have reason to believe there may be more to the story. Its regrettable the company reacted defensively, but if the ring clearly shows signs of serious damage, it's understandable. So, the proof is in the pudding, the customer and the company should look at the ring again and have a reasonable discussion. Niessing products are premium, and they carry a premium price. Therefore I have no doubts they will do the right thing, and satisfy the customer, within reason.

I might add that my experience with Niessing so far has been positive.

Scotch

Scotch

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/29/2004 4:37:35 PM scotch wrote:

After all, Niessing has offered to work with Domen towards a solution. Domen, have they contacted you directly to confirm, or have you reacted? Some have expressed displeasure about Niessing having reacted only after Domen posted here. But really, what would you expect? A customer walks into your store who lost a $10,000 diamond and claims it 'fell out' for no particular reason. You examine the ring, and you think you have reason to believe there may be more to the story. Its regrettable the company reacted defensively, but if the ring clearly shows signs of serious damage, it's understandable. ----------------

No, I would not expect Niessing to react. I would expect them to be *proactive* & not come to task *after* they "ruled" the setting to be damaged. It seems (and I could be wrong) that no "solution" was offered until after this thread. I find it more than regrettable that the company reacted defensively. Yet, no one has been able to give a clue as to what may have happened to the ring except for handclapping. Sorry, not going to get over it. What company gives a disclaimer for handclapping? It didn't sound like it was some weird phenom baked up in the cosmic w/ the handclapping.

I've said from the beginning. I have no experience with tension rings. But, the manner in which *this particular* situation has been handled makes me not want a ring by Niessing, regardless of who was at fault. Too pat of answers. As I stated, I am usually vendor friendly. But, this definitely would not be the way I would handle a situation or expect to be handled like this.

Domen, I would like to know how you contacted them & if this "form" letter was just a formal communication of what had been discussed. Or, was this their only form of communication.

And, one can form an opinion about a vendor from tone as well as actions. I'm hoping it's just a language barrier.

 

[Greg]

I thought you brought up some good points Scotch. Particularly the parts about this thread being mostly "speculation and emotion" and the handclapping being a random (and not very sound) idea that's being taken way to seriously. It seems like in the absence of useful information some are looking for things to be mad about.

Anything could have happened to the ring. It could have been poorly manufactured, and that's why the stone fell out. That's one possibility. Or it could have been damaged in a random and unusual accident. (Personally, I think it was Colonial Mustard in the library with the lead pipe.) The stone wouldn't necessarily fallen out at the exact time the ring was damaged, so it'll take some time for Niessing and Nemod to figure out what happened.

It would be great to see some pictures, but I read back a bit and Nemod doesn't want to post them yet. That's his purgative. Not much left for us to do but let them sort it out.

 

[aljdewey]

F&I, you're getting perilously close to the "white off rice" territory.

 

[Mara]

Did someone say 'white off rice'? *perk*

my thoughts on this fiasco...




1) the manufacturer should stand by their product


2) the consumer should insure their ring




without seeing pictures as Greg requested, it is unknown just what sort of 'abuse' this ring encountered in the theatre so it's unknown if normal wear and tear happened, a fluke, or 'abuse'.




i would agree that normal wear and tear includes accidental banging on a chair or similar object (I do that daily because I'm a klutzo)...tension settings tout all over the place how safe and secure the stone is...i have seen ads and sites say that it's safer than PRONGS. a diamond can fall out of prongs but normally one has to be damaged or gone.




with tension it seems that the visually precarious position of a tension set stone to skeptics would make the manufacturer MORE eager to help in a situation such as this, so that doubt is not instilled in future purchasers. Especially on the internet with archivable posts easilyy findable on a Google search engine for those future purchasers.

came across this on google at the top of the screen when i typed in 'niessing ring lost': http://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/x17455.htm ...it caught the 'at one point she lost her stone' (from a niessing ring). some food for thought.

 

[aljdewey]

I've seen close to half a dozen posters now point out how important it is to insure their rings.

While that is generally sound advice, it seems as though this very important point of Nemod's post was overlooked: "Insurance against a loss is a pretty good idea but it was not possible in Slovenia on the time when I bought the ring for my wife."

 

[nemod]

Dear all
I'd like to post more info about the matter but please, I'd like to give a chance to Niessing to see what they will do in the next step. I'll wait for couple of days more.
My wife and I carefully read all posts and we'd like to express our gratitude to all of you.

Domen

 

[denverappraiser]

Perhaps I’m missing something:

Niessen didn’t misrepresent their warranty, the retailer did. There was surely a document explaining the conditions of the warranty that was given to the customer at the time of their purchase. This document undoubtedly said that the warranty was exactly what was written in the document and that it was not modified by any promises made by the salesperson. I’m guessing this because manufacturers warranties are NEVER superceded by what the retail salespeople say. Perhaps someone from Neissen would be willing to post the text of that warranty since it is so critical to their case.

All of the discussion about the need for direct consumer insurance in order to deal with the inherent risks associated with owning such a ring just supports the position that Niessen is quite possibly innocent. They are perhaps even an additional victim! There may be a case against the retailer here by both the consumers and by Niessen (because of the damage being done to their reputation).

This whole thread is frightening. There have been 96 posts since Wednesday slamming Niessen. They have come on the forum and offered to reexamine the issue and will then give a considered statement. They’ve not had an opportunity to see the ring since making that offer. They will surely also want to reexamine their form letters. Frankly, this seems very reasonable.

Neil Beaty G.G.
www.gemlab.us

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/1/2004 12:32:44 AM denverappraiser wrote:

Perhaps I’
Niessen didn’t misrepresent their warranty, the retailer did.

This whole thread is frightening. There have been 96 posts since Wednesday slamming Niessen. They have come on the forum and offered to reexamine the issue and will then give a considered statement. They’ve not had an opportunity to see the ring since making that offer. They will surely also want to reexamine their form letters. Frankly, this seems very reasonable.

Neil Beaty G.G.
www.gemlab.us
----------------

Then they should choose their retailer's more carefully & educate them to the proper warranty. Also, some things can be conveyed in advertising. Plus, the consumer mentions that "Niessing" stated such guarantees. Clearly the consumer was under the impression that it wasn't the jeweler's guarantee, but Niessing. Perhaps a case could be made against the jeweler; but, it is not clear from the post where or when the "guarantee" was supposed.

BTW, Niessing has the ring & has always had the ring in their possession during this thread. I would think it prudent to examine the ring *prior* to presenting pat answers or supositions on handclapping. Handclapping was offered as a *reason* and not some half baked freak of nature. At the very least, the company looks like a beauracracy.

Perhaps you see this company as being reasonable. As a consumer, just from reading the responses, they may *seem* reasonable. But, all too quick to put the onus on the consumer w/ instant disclaimers. Time will see what transpires. I've said I have an open mind as to the end result. But, thusfar, I am left w/ a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't find it frightening to judge company policy from the way the initial complaint is handled.

 

[kevinng]

Whether or not the jeweller can expand the manufacturer's warranty depends on the agency relationship between the jeweller and Niessing. None of us have enough information to form an opinion, nor are we qualified to give legal opinions. So, let us assume that the jeweller did not have any right to expand Niessing's warranty and it was the jeweller's mistake that Domen misunderstood the warranty.

I'm very sure that Niessing makes very high quality tension rings. I also understand that we are only speculating without concrete information. Some readers get emotional, but most readers are rational and can discern facts from emotional outbursts.

Having said that, I find it really difficult to understand why Niessing would continually undo themselves. Nobody suggested that handclapping (when there exists a ring in the other hand) can cause the ring to be damaged. Niessing did. When that wasn't enough, they even related a story on how a bride destroyed her Niessing ring while handclapping and they magnanimously fixed it.

This does not only undermine Niessing's interests, but also the interest of all tension ring manufacturers. I can only guess that Niessing is honest to a fault.

 

[Rank Amateur]

----------------
On 8/1/2004 12:32:44 AM denverappraiser wrote:


This whole thread is frightening.

----------------

What is so frightening about this thread?

I know you're not a numbers guy, but close to half the 80-something responses are in favor of the manufacturer. Dave even mentioned about how the manufacturer has access to legal representation that the average consumer does not. Maybe the force of a public forum like this evens the playing field a little.

If Niessen's case is good and the ring is beat up, they are in the clear. If their case is not so good, maybe they take part of that original 150% markup and replace the stone. Maybe they settle and we never hear about it.

No matter what the outcome, I think it is a win for consumers in general and maybe even a win for Niessing if they play their cards correctly.

 

[Iceman]

Whats legal in Germany ?


Laws are different all over the world.

 

[winyan]

I'm hopping on quickly to throw in my 2 cents.

I have a G&A 1 1/2 carat for going on two years now. It's so secure I wear it to the gym.

It's as tight as the day I received it.

Something is wrong here.

win