Lost Lad. Help me find my way to my unicorn

[John Yi]

Hello all!

I've been a lurker on PS for a while now. I am trying to get a better sense of Diamonds vs my budget.
I am ready to make the next step.

My GF and I has some casual talks about the diamond ring she wants. Honestly, I feel she does not have real knowledge about diamonds beside what her social circle have told her. the carats, color (D) and clarity (VVS1). I wish I can get what she wants but it's way out of my budget.

I've been going B&M and viewing all different diamonds but ultimately they all look the same. However, I know that's not true.

Here is a little background about her.

-> She is very petite, size 3.5- finger.
-> She's loves her luxurious goods. (Bags, Shoes, Clothes)
-> Her social circle seems to gets about 1.5 ct rings, but with high specs (e.g. D, flawless, etc) solitarie setting.
-> She wants a higher carat like 2 carats. I was thinking like 1.8 based on my budget.
->Her second need is color. It seems all of her social circle talks about color.
->She wants a halo style with mirco pave.

My budget is about 15k with the halo setting . However, I am willing to go up little more.

I'm really trying to get the best "bang for the buck". However, I don't want to her feel embrassed when she shows off the ring. Especially when people asks her about the color or clarity .
Want:
1.75- 2.0 carats
XXX cut
G-H but I wish for a F
SI-S2 eyen clean of course.
No fluorescence
Question: does it matter if it's GIA or AGS?

Perhaps it doesn't fit in my budget but from previous feeds... it seems like you guys come up with some solid recommendations.

Please help this poor lad.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[arkieb1]

Either lab is fine but you will not get a stone that size and colour on that budget. And if you do it will probably be with a lab that is inaccurate compared to a more reliable lab. If she has tiny fingers and you are going to halo the stone you should be able to move down a bit in the size of the centre stone.

 

[whitewave]

I think a 2 carat on a 3.5 (us?) finger might be a bit much.

No one will know if she has an F or G VS2 diamond, especially on something like a super ideal diamond.

Your budget isn't large enough for a 2 carat with a halo and microwave. You would need 24-30k for that (and for it to be done by a quality bench or setting).

 

[farrahlyn]

As far as color, the halo is great because it will hide any tint possibly seen from a side view of the stone. H will have very little tint but i do wonder if you should drop below a G if she's expecting colorless.

I have a couple suggestions. The first would be to call ID Jewelry. they do amazing things with budgets and considering the size you're trying to acheive, i think this is your best route. Lots of settings available through them too, i'd look at Gabriel & Co halos, they have some really stunning settings.

For James Allen:

setting:
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...shion-outline-pave-engagement-ring-item-49493
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...tline-falling-edge-engagement-ring-item-53073 (I like this for the diamond encrusted look)
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...-edge-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-49492 (same as above just in a round outline)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3319945 I know this is not quite the 1.8 you're looking for but it is close.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2623820 clarity is questionable but might be worth looking into

 

[whitewave]

I think you should start with a super ideal diamond since she likes luxury goods. These stores would be High Performance Diamonds, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin. These diamonds are guaranteed super ideal cut and tend to look larger than ideal cuts of the same size. They are brighter and whiter too.

I would go down on center stone to a 1.2 to 1.3

The setting is going to be a good 4-5k most likely. When you said micro pave, you meant a halo and a diamond shank, right?

 

[HDer]

Don't get discouraged OP. If I found my 2 carat for 8.2K, you can find yours for your budget.

One thing to consider is whether the lack of fluor is a hard requirement. If not, it will open your selection range a lot.

 

[whitewave]

http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8810

Super ideal 1.34 H SI1 (eye clean) $11,179

Call and ask for a video


She would be able to brag to her friends that she has a Crafted by Infinity brand diamond.


Whiteflash has another brand: A Cut Above is their brand name

 

[whitewave]

Here is my post about my recent Crafted by Infinity purchase: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/blown-away-by-crafted-by-infinity.234157/

 

[whitewave]

Don't get discouraged OP. If I found my 2 carat for 8.2K, you can find yours for your budget.

One thing to consider is whether the lack of fluor is a hard requirement. If not, it will open your selection range a lot.

I don't think she is going to want an M color though if all her friends have white colors.

 

[whitewave]

Here is a CBI 1.7 G SI1 $16,586 (credit price)

http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD6987

Oh, and all Crafted By Infinity Diamonds are eye clean: http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-clarity

I just bought an SI2 because it's eye clean and no one will be able to see anything.

 

[Rfisher]

Bang for your buck-
https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...-split-shank-ring-1-dot-67-carat-g-vs1-center
But I'll let others critique its pros and cons.

Congratulations and best wishes

 

[soxfan]

Bang for your buck-
https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...-split-shank-ring-1-dot-67-carat-g-vs1-center
But I'll let others critique its pros and cons.

Congratulations and best wishes

There's nothing to critique about this ring. It will be huge and it's the best quality pave setting you can get. If that were MY social circle, I'd LOVE to have this because it's going to look better than any of their rings.

 

[HDer]

I don't think she is going to want an M color though if all her friends have white colors.

L thank you.

His budget is at least 5K bigger than mine, and he's looking for 1.75+ SI2+. No reason he can't find one that he'll be happy with.

With fluor:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ns=Images&advancedParameter=CaratSliderBottom

Without fluor:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...pthFrom=45&DepthTo=80&TableFrom=50&TableTo=83

 

[Niel]

I have a feeling she wants colorless. Regardless of how well color can be hidden, I'd she says her group talks about color, often gets Ds, and she cares about color, I would stick with colorless. She also may be of a culture that values colorless diamonds. Many Asian cultures expect high specs. So she will be disappointed if that request isn't respected. I dont think trying to skirt that c is a good idea, op.

Does it positively have to be a round cut? You can get more ctw for your money with other shapes.

 

[soxfan]

oval oval oval!!

 

[Niel]

Still looking but here's a diamond under 15k. I know she wants a well made Halo,which will cost 2.5--3k at least in plat (which I assume she will require)

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/1.90-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3143322

 

[HDer]

I have a feeling she wants colorless. Regardless of how well color can be hidden, I'd she says her group talks about color, often gets Ds, and she cares about color, I would stick with colorless. She also may be of a culture that values colorless diamonds. Many Asian cultures expect high specs. So she will be disappointed if that request isn't respected. I dont think trying to skirt that c is a good idea, op.

Does it positively have to be a round cut? You can get more ctw for your money with other shapes.

My g/f's Asian too. OP I would definitely ask your g/f and maybe check out a few stones in person to see what she's willing to compromise on and what she isn't. Keep in mind that a mall "D" stone might actually be a J if it's not GIA certified. Also, James Allen's technology makes color and inclusions look a lot worse than they actually look in real life.

As a reference, here's the James Allen video of my L stone:

https://segoma.com/v.php?type=view&id=01IQRWVEPP

And here's the video my jeweler sent me after he received it:

https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/beneficialunequaledgeese

Of course, I'm not suggesting that you go with an L stone, but I would be surprised if any of your g/f's friends could tell the difference between D and F unless they put them side by side and stared at them for 10 minutes. Most professional jewelers would even have trouble definitively telling you if a stone is D or F under normal lighting.

 

[KKJohnson]

I think this is pretty stunning but not sure if y'all have discussed OEC? But maybe is has a little too much color since it is a K

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...ean-cut-diamond-halo-platinum-engagement-ring

 

[HDer]

An even more extreme example of how James Allen can make a good stone look bad:

I just thought this might be useful to new buyers.

My initial aim was to buy the biggest carat, no tint, eye clean diamond I could get. Initially I had a 36.3/41.2 57.5/63.2 on hold (HCA 5.4). I came here, was given the usual advice regarding superideals and cut etc.
I used the cheat sheet and bought the cheapest largest stone I saw that seemed clean enough with ideal specs. I'm colour sensitive so stuck to >= H but this G happened to be available at the time for similar prices to H/Si2s.
After looking at lots of stones in B&M I was quite happy that the inclusions in the video would be OK with me. JA confirmed it was eyeclean from the top.

Superideals were out of my budget with the carat I was after (~1.3) and although diamond prices have slightly dropped since then, the £ also got a lot weaker, so just as well.

On a short time scale, no time to wait for idealscopes, I bought: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-528685

I am extremely pleased with its performance. I can JUST about see the inclusion to the right under the table (but it took about a year of looking at the diamond repeatedly to start to find it. I generally can't find it without a loup first, once I've located it and tilt it just the right way, I notice an extremely small spot. My wife certainly can't spot it still) so would still define it as eyeclean for most.

Despite being pleased with it, the irony is, the more stones I looked at and hanging around PS, the more I realised I wouldn't have given at this stone a second look if I was looking fresh based on the video.
It's not a flattering video. There appears to be lots of obstruction, problems with optical symmetry, two arrows slightly washed out, and different sizes. What would a superideal have looked like? These questions started to pester me.

I took the stone to several stores and compared to HoF stones. I could not see a visual difference, in fact, in bright spot lighting, in some circumstances, there was increased scintillation and fire. A few friends bought superideals and I could not see any lesser performance. It's a nice bright white fiery diamond.

Eventually I had to see scope images and so acquired an ASET and IS (I did struggle to take good shots with just the phone camera, so apologise about the tilt)








Is it H&A? Quite clearly not. Now with some more experience and lots of careful examination compared to HoF stones, possibly the arrows don't light up simultaneously as easily on very slow direct comparison, but it does light up in a slightly different no less pleasing manner. These are extremely subtle findings! I'm very happy with the scope images.

I sort of did everything in reverse, as I learnt more here, the more I wasn't happy with the stone despite loving it in person, which is ridiculous, until I saw the scope images (!)

The point of the story is that this is a good example of an non H&A stone with great light performance, that we've enjoyed for nearly two years. It's the upper range of the budget ($7400 before wire discount), that let me hit a size I couldn't have if I was buying superideal. I've compared and am delighted with its performance on its own and in comparison.

Ignoring the clarity issues people may have with it; if I was buying today, with more experience, and I'd make the same decision every time, I would have skipped over it due to perceived faults in the video, which is a real shame. Although I've learnt so much more, I would have missed out on this stone; so I must ask myself, with all the new knowledge, have I progressed or regressed in selecting a beautiful diamond?!

In summary, it's easy to get caught up too much with mind clean aspects here, you might miss out on something great otherwise.
Do look at lots of stones in real life so you can calibrate your tolerances for colour and clarity when buying online.

Thanks HDer
I do really love the videos but people who buy purely without looking at real diamonds could be easily scared off by the inclusions.
I've attached a small video and picture. These are in natural daylight by the window, no spot lights

@Matthews1127 , thanks for your post, your ring is beautiful I had a look at your thread. It must have been satisfying to have verification by PS that the stone you love excels even by this standard!

thanks for the comments!
Congrats on your ?semi recent marriage. We just got married in July gone.

I'm glad the video quality has improved tremendously or at least standardised. Their equipment also seems to have variable obstruction compared to IS/ASETs. In all honesty I'm actually not that into jewellery, I'm mainly interested in the maths and optics behind diamonds, and find them beautiful. Has become a little hobby. I'm flattered you use the tool, I find a lot of the time there are too many possibilities but when it does work it's quite satisfying. More of curiosity than a useful tool. I always enjoy reading your insight too!

Thanks @totallyfree .

The main point of my post was just to help new comers from my perspective and to keep an open mind when looking at things.

For what it's worth my wife that has no more interest in diamonds compared to the average Joe can tell apart 'ideal' proportions from a steep deep cut or a shallower very good cut that we've seen on friends (HCA 3.5 to 5).

When she saw a diamond I picked out for a friend with basically the same proportions as hers she said oh looks great, looks like the same as mine! So lay people with no interest can notice a difference, they just may not know what it is that's different, and I think many people undermine the average consumers ability to select a well cut diamond, it's just most never get to see one.

This is why it helps to ask the gemologist before making a decision on the diamond.

 

[John Yi]

Thank you for all your help!!!! Set the reality straight.
What do think of this ring?

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2185501543

 

[HDer]

Thank you for all your help!!!! Set the reality straight.
What do think of this ring?

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2185501543

Twinning wisps can be some of the "best" inclusions to have because they may be mostly clear. However, there's also a chance that they will obstruct light and make the stone dull, even with a good cut. So I would want to get an expert opinion on the stone, and even better an ASET/Idealscope.

 

[farrahlyn]

Thank you for all your help!!!! Set the reality straight.
What do think of this ring?

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2185501543

Definitely worth investigating further. However, i'd be concerned about the clouds and surface graining not shown. clouds in particular can cause a dull appearance, impeding light performance. SI2 clarity stones can be a great way to gain size but you want to make sure you don't give up performance.

OP, i think a talk with your intended would be a good way to hash this out. Find out what she prefers, does she want a colorless stone (D-F) closer to 1.5ct or would she prefer to place size over color? I see nothing wrong with sticking close to 1.5ct, especially if this is what her social circle is wearing. In some cultures, color and clarity WAY overrides size and you need to know if she is ok with compromising. You have to figure out where to give in your needs according to your budget. The last thing you want is her being unhappy with the stone you picked out.

 

[gm89uk]

The best bang for buck, if you are happy to go with H, this is an amazing deal!

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/v/7Z7414317

Thanks HDer for the quote.

Here is a CBI 1.7 G SI1 $16,586 (credit price)

http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD6987

Oh, and all Crafted By Infinity Diamonds are eye clean: http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-clarity

I just bought an SI2 because it's eye clean and no one will be able to see anything.

That diamond is an amazing price for a G SI1 superideal (the wire discount with HPD is a whopping 5% off) so it can be had for $15757 which is basically the same price as a JA true hearts.

 

[soxfan]

OP, did you go look at this?

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rin...-split-shank-ring-1-dot-67-carat-g-vs1-center

This belongs to a PS'er and it's a REALLY great deal for the price. The stone is very white and the setting is perfection. It puts you under budget.

 

[whitewave]

You probably need to figure out a way to slyly ask her would she rather smaller but out perform all her friends' diamonds and a brand name or does she want biggest you can get or top color.

She has to bend somewhere. We all want it all, but we have to figure out what we are willing to give up to get what we most want.

 

[whitewave]

The best bang for buck, if you are happy to go with H, this is an amazing deal!

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/v/7Z7414317

Thanks HDer for the quote.



That diamond is an amazing price for a G SI1 superideal (the wire discount with HPD is a whopping 5% off) so it can be had for $15757 which is basically the same price as a JA true hearts.

Call HPD and ask for a video of this one.

 

[soxfan]

His budget is $15k WITH the halo setting....

 

[farrahlyn]

The best bang for buck, if you are happy to go with H, this is an amazing deal!

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/v/7Z7414317

WOAH, that is an incredible price!

 

[soxfan]

WOAH, that is an incredible price!

YES!

 

[whitewave]

WOAH, that is an incredible price!

Would have to check for BGM since it has strong blue fluro, which OP said they didn't want. Additional clouds and pinpoints not shown on an SI 1 also...

Still, could be a great diamond.