shape
carat
color
clarity

My Diamond Experience

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,491
I just thought this might be useful to new buyers.

My initial aim was to buy the biggest carat, no tint, eye clean diamond I could get. Initially I had a 36.3/41.2 57.5/63.2 on hold (HCA 5.4). I came here, was given the usual advice regarding superideals and cut etc.
I used the cheat sheet and bought the cheapest largest stone I saw that seemed clean enough with ideal specs. I'm colour sensitive so stuck to >= H but this G happened to be available at the time for similar prices to H/Si2s.
After looking at lots of stones in B&M I was quite happy that the inclusions in the video would be OK with me. JA confirmed it was eyeclean from the top.

Superideals were out of my budget with the carat I was after (~1.3) and although diamond prices have slightly dropped since then, the £ also got a lot weaker, so just as well.

On a short time scale, no time to wait for idealscopes, I bought: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-528685

I am extremely pleased with its performance. I can JUST about see the inclusion to the right under the table (but it took about a year of looking at the diamond repeatedly to start to find it. I generally can't find it without a loup first, once I've located it and tilt it just the right way, I notice an extremely small spot. My wife certainly can't spot it still) so would still define it as eyeclean for most.

Despite being pleased with it, the irony is, the more stones I looked at and hanging around PS, the more I realised I wouldn't have given at this stone a second look if I was looking fresh based on the video.
It's not a flattering video. There appears to be lots of obstruction, problems with optical symmetry, two arrows slightly washed out, and different sizes. What would a superideal have looked like? These questions started to pester me.

I took the stone to several stores and compared to HoF stones. I could not see a visual difference, in fact, in bright spot lighting, in some circumstances, there was increased scintillation and fire. A few friends bought superideals and I could not see any lesser performance. It's a nice bright white fiery diamond.

Eventually I had to see scope images and so acquired an ASET and IS (I did struggle to take good shots with just the phone camera, so apologise about the tilt)

IMG_20170813_142524_278.jpg
IMG_20170906_150052_893.jpg
IMG_20170809_124756_993.jpg
IMG_20170821_132412_941.jpg
IMG_20170809_124028_531.jpg
IMG_20170907_033135_981.jpg

Is it H&A? Quite clearly not. Now with some more experience and lots of careful examination compared to HoF stones, possibly the arrows don't light up simultaneously as easily on very slow direct comparison, but it does light up in a slightly different no less pleasing manner. These are extremely subtle findings! I'm very happy with the scope images.

I sort of did everything in reverse, as I learnt more here, the more I wasn't happy with the stone despite loving it in person, which is ridiculous, until I saw the scope images (!)

The point of the story is that this is a good example of an non H&A stone with great light performance, that we've enjoyed for nearly two years. It's the upper range of the budget ($7400 before wire discount), that let me hit a size I couldn't have if I was buying superideal. I've compared and am delighted with its performance on its own and in comparison.

Ignoring the clarity issues people may have with it; if I was buying today, with more experience, and I'd make the same decision every time, I would have skipped over it due to perceived faults in the video, which is a real shame. Although I've learnt so much more, I would have missed out on this stone; so I must ask myself, with all the new knowledge, have I progressed or regressed in selecting a beautiful diamond?!

In summary, it's easy to get caught up too much with mind clean aspects here, you might miss out on something great otherwise.
Do look at lots of stones in real life so you can calibrate your tolerances for colour and clarity when buying online.
 

HDer

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
694
Great story! I also wonder sometimes if the amazing technology James Allen has created is doing diamond buyers a disservice by steering people away from otherwise normally unnoticeably imperfect SI2 stones due to the magnification it offers.

Your ASET looks really great. Sounds like you made a really good choice. Do you have a picture of the ring in normal lighting?
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
5,207
I just thought this might be useful to new buyers.

My initial aim was to buy the biggest carat, no tint, eye clean diamond I could get. Initially I had a 36.3/41.2 57.5/63.2 on hold (HCA 5.4). I came here, was given the usual advice regarding superideals and cut etc.
I used the cheat sheet and bought the cheapest largest stone I saw that seemed clean enough with ideal specs. I'm colour sensitive so stuck to >= H but this G happened to be available at the time for similar prices to H/Si2s.
After looking at lots of stones in B&M I was quite happy that the inclusions in the video would be OK with me. JA confirmed it was eyeclean from the top.

Superideals were out of my budget with the carat I was after (~1.3) and although diamond prices have slightly dropped since then, the £ also got a lot weaker, so just as well.

On a short time scale, no time to wait for idealscopes, I bought: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-528685

I am extremely pleased with its performance. I can JUST about see the inclusion to the right under the table (but it took about a year of looking at the diamond repeatedly to start to find it. I generally can't find it without a loup first, once I've located it and tilt it just the right way, I notice an extremely small spot. My wife certainly can't spot it still) so would still define it as eyeclean for most.

Despite being pleased with it, the irony is, the more stones I looked at and hanging around PS, the more I realised I wouldn't have given at this stone a second look if I was looking fresh based on the video.
It's not a flattering video. There appears to be lots of obstruction, problems with optical symmetry, two arrows slightly washed out, and different sizes. What would a superideal have looked like? These questions started to pester me.

I took the stone to several stores and compared to HoF stones. I could not see a visual difference, in fact, in bright spot lighting, in some circumstances, there was increased scintillation and fire. A few friends bought superideals and I could not see any lesser performance. It's a nice bright white fiery diamond.

Eventually I had to see scope images and so acquired an ASET and IS (I did struggle to take good shots with just the phone camera, so apologise about the tilt)

IMG_20170813_142524_278.jpg
IMG_20170906_150052_893.jpg
IMG_20170809_124756_993.jpg
IMG_20170821_132412_941.jpg
IMG_20170809_124028_531.jpg
IMG_20170907_033135_981.jpg

Is it H&A? Quite clearly not. Now with some more experience and lots of careful examination compared to HoF stones, possibly the arrows don't light up simultaneously as easily on very slow direct comparison, but it does light up in a slightly different no less pleasing manner. These are extremely subtle findings! I'm very happy with the scope images.

I sort of did everything in reverse, as I learnt more here, the more I wasn't happy with the stone despite loving it in person, which is ridiculous, until I saw the scope images (!)

The point of the story is that this is a good example of an non H&A stone with great light performance, that we've enjoyed for nearly two years. It's the upper range of the budget ($7400 before wire discount), that let me hit a size I couldn't have if I was buying superideal. I've compared and am delighted with its performance on its own and in comparison.

Ignoring the clarity issues people may have with it; if I was buying today, with more experience, and I'd make the same decision every time, I would have skipped over it due to perceived faults in the video, which is a real shame. Although I've learnt so much more, I would have missed out on this stone; so I must ask myself, with all the new knowledge, have I progressed or regressed in selecting a beautiful diamond?!

In summary, it's easy to get caught up too much with mind clean aspects here, you might miss out on something great otherwise.
Do look at lots of stones in real life so you can calibrate your tolerances for colour and clarity when buying online.

I believe the answer is PROGRESSED!! There is so much more to a Diamond than it's magnified appearance, and certificate!
My DH & I stumbled upon my EC very much by accident. As experts have said over the decades, "A quality EC must have the best/highest clarity due to its cut." That's true...MOST of the time. Not in MY case...and I just had my EC appraised by an independent appraiser who never met me, before. She couldn't stop complimenting me on my "beautiful diamond", and the "lovely setting", and my "unique wedding band"...but, mostly, she LOVED my EC. "It's simply GORGEOUS!" :mrgreen2:
"Uisce" (my EC), is a 1.07ct, G, SI2...COMPLETELY eye clean!!! I may add: l x w ratio 1.45:1!!! :love:
My jewelers, and now, my appraiser, question the Clarity grade of my diamond because she is so clear, and clean.
If DH & I had been approached with 10x magnification (which I've been told by multiple jewelers that she's even fabulous, MAGNIFIED), I don't know if we would have loved her as much as we do. It's possible, we may have, but then, again...maybe not so much.
We married before I discovered PS, and ever since I joined, I have studied, and examined, and I have compared my stone to beautifully cut EC's, and Uisce ranks up there with some of the best...and she's an SI2! PS has only confirmed for me that we found a rare EC for the price, and I couldn't be more proud! She was hand selected by the naked eye, and we were truly fortunate to find her; the luck of the Irish was definitely with us, that day!!
I believe it's important to KNOW what you're buying...but I also believe that even the diamonds whose statistics are not the best should still be given an opportunity to prove themselves worthy of an honest purchase. You never know what you may find by keeping an open mind...
;)2

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/meet-uisce.231677/page-4#post-4207504

Great thread, @gm89uk!!!
I absolutely loved reading your story, about your journey, as well as sharing in your soul searching!! I believe you made the right choice, and you grew from the experience!! I'm so happy you found the diamond for you!!! :mrgreen2:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,979
I also bought mine in 2015. JA's diamond videos and photography setup back then were very inconsistent.
I am sure you know what's going on the video in regards to obstruction and washed out arrows.

You offer great analysis that no other prosumer member provides. I like using your cut analysis tool, which I think is reliable and explains some IS/ASET results.
 

totallyfree

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
198
You started with a goal (size!), you educate yourself as to what other characteristics make up a diamonds nature, you saw these in person and then made a decision with a return policy.

13/10 points to you! :dance::dance:

Few people go to the lengths you have, and even fewer can identify their priority in a diamond (ring).

Enjoy the stone!
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,491
Great story! I also wonder sometimes if the amazing technology James Allen has created is doing diamond buyers a disservice by steering people away from otherwise normally unnoticeably imperfect SI2 stones due to the magnification it offers.

Your ASET looks really great. Sounds like you made a really good choice. Do you have a picture of the ring in normal lighting?

Thanks HDer
I do really love the videos but people who buy purely without looking at real diamonds could be easily scared off by the inclusions.
I've attached a small video and picture. These are in natural daylight by the window, no spot lights

IMG_20170908_112025_792.jpg
@Matthews1127 , thanks for your post, your ring is beautiful I had a look at your thread. It must have been satisfying to have verification by PS that the stone you love excels even by this standard!

I also bought mine in 2015. JA's diamond videos and photography setup back then were very inconsistent.
I am sure you know what's going on the video in regards to obstruction and washed out arrows.

You offer great analysis that no other prosumer member provides. I like using your cut analysis tool, which I think is reliable and explains some IS/ASET results.
thanks for the comments!
Congrats on your ?semi recent marriage. We just got married in July gone.

I'm glad the video quality has improved tremendously or at least standardised. Their equipment also seems to have variable obstruction compared to IS/ASETs. In all honesty I'm actually not that into jewellery, I'm mainly interested in the maths and optics behind diamonds, and find them beautiful. Has become a little hobby. I'm flattered you use the tool, I find a lot of the time there are too many possibilities but when it does work it's quite satisfying. More of curiosity than a useful tool. I always enjoy reading your insight too!

Thanks @totallyfree .

The main point of my post was just to help new comers from my perspective and to keep an open mind when looking at things.

For what it's worth my wife that has no more interest in diamonds compared to the average Joe can tell apart 'ideal' proportions from a steep deep cut or a shallower very good cut that we've seen on friends (HCA 3.5 to 5).

When she saw a diamond I picked out for a friend with basically the same proportions as hers she said oh looks great, looks like the same as mine! So lay people with no interest can notice a difference, they just may not know what it is that's different, and I think many people undermine the average consumers ability to select a well cut diamond, it's just most never get to see one.
 
Last edited:

doberman

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
2,417
You researched diamonds and bought a beauty! I totally understand your stance on clarity and I wonder if the magnified images steer people away from what would be completely eye clean stones at a better price point.
 

Alexiszoe

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
720
Thanks for this, it's very informative.

I went through the reverse of what you did - educated on diamonds, bought a superideal (did not compare superideals to anything else,I drank the whole cut is king kool-aid). A year later I helped a friend pick out and saw 3 GIA XXX's similar in size and clarity to mine at the appraiser's office. The difference in performance to me, between my stone and the other 3 diamonds were very slight, and made me question if the premium I paid was worth it (since I could barely tell the difference!)

As consumers it's important that we remember things like ASET, HCA etc are just tools - but at the end of the day nothing beats how we feel about it in real life. I remember @Rockdiamond advocated for this many years ago (and many did not share his opinion back then) - it's almost as if PS has gone full circle from numbers and now to numbers+trusting your eyes ;)2
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
25,754
HI:

Curious OP, if $$$ was unlimited would your decision have been the same? Bought a super ideal stone?

cheers--Sharon
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,740
Alexiszoe
thanks for making the point. Saying that "many did not share my opinion" is somewhat of an understatement. The literal truth is that I have been tarred and feathered many times because of me sharing my experiences with cut. OK figuratively:)
Let's not forget leakage- that horrible phenomenon where more of your money than necessary suddenly leaks out of your pocket because you've been convinced you need a "better cut" stone.
I think it's comical really. At DBL, we love to sell super ideal stones- but also hate to upsell anyone. So educating our clients to a broader perspective has always been my method.

Ignoring the clarity issues people may have with it; if I was buying today, with more experience, and I'd make the same decision every time, I would have skipped over it due to perceived faults in the video, which is a real shame. Although I've learnt so much more, I would have missed out on this stone; so I must ask myself, with all the new knowledge, have I progressed or regressed in selecting a beautiful diamond?!

Great thread gm89uk. Obviously, I agree with a lot of what you say.
You bring up a great point about rotating videos.
IMO, they can make a VS2 look like an I2. Plus, when the stone is sitting on the pavilion, you really never get a true head on view of it.

About the part in bold- it's great to gain new knowledge- putting it into perspective is crucial for pragmatic reasons. IMO, it's that perspective which is lacking in a lot of cut discussions here on PS. Looks like you['ve gained a valuable perspective gm
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,491
Thanks for this, it's very informative.

I went through the reverse of what you did - educated on diamonds, bought a superideal (did not compare superideals to anything else,I drank the whole cut is king kool-aid). A year later I helped a friend pick out and saw 3 GIA XXX's similar in size and clarity to mine at the appraiser's office. The difference in performance to me, between my stone and the other 3 diamonds were very slight, and made me question if the premium I paid was worth it (since I could barely tell the difference!)

I'm sure you do have a fantastic stone at the end of the day. In all honesty I can spot the difference between well cut / well proportioned GIA XXX with poorly cut ones quite easily. I'm at an age where lots of friends are getting married/proposing, and I've somehow become a go to guy to enquire about diamonds. I've managed to see quite a range of diamonds over the last few years from many shops. It's surprisingly difficult to find an <2 HCA nevermind one with the cheat sheet in the shop. In the store, it's almost impossible to differentiate performance objectively as where I am they are specifically trained not to show you stones outside of spot lighting. Even outside they are extremely reluctant if it's not a bright sunny day ('I've been in the business 15 years and you are the first person to ask to see it outside'). Even outside they have spot lights. I've seen two friends one get a well proportioned 33/41 and the other an HCA 3.5, 32.5 crown stone. One of the guys had a great eye for cut and could immediately spot the differences where the other was much more concerned with mm/$$. His wife is extremely happy with her 59 depth 0.8c because it looks massive/carat. I know she appreciates the extra mm far more than any extra brightness to her diamond. I think it looks duller than a well cut diamond but there you go.

HI:

Curious OP, if $$$ was unlimited would your decision have been the same? Bought a super ideal stone?

cheers--Sharon

Hi Sharon, I think $ is always (for the vast majority) limited so that question is irrelevant. What is probably more relevant is if $ was increased, would I buy superideal?

I still very much believe cut is king, especially for me, but can appreciate that other people really do have different priorities. My ethos is that cut is king to a certain point, then any further refines in cut is not worth the improvement / $.

If I can achieve my desired specs and carat in superideal within budget, sure. But what's more realistic is if I didn't go with superideal I'd generally always be able to go bigger with the same or very similar perceived performance.

We currently have a 1.3, if we were ever to upgrade it would be possibly 1.7/1.8 mark. I can get a great cut stone H eyeclean probably around 13 to 14k if I'm patient. For superideal I'll be much more likely to be 16k+.

Secondly the most beautiful stone I've ever seen was a 35.5/40.6/55 table. I prefer my 35 crown non super ideal to h&a 34/40.7. it's subtle but I can notice a difference. 35.5 isn't even on offer in superideal, not because of performance but largely due to logistics. There is far more selection outside the superideal realm. People specific specs such as small table, high crown may be waiting around a lot longer for a stone of their desired specs to come to inventory than of they simply shopped for an ideal.

I'd buy superideal if somehow the price was the same, or if there was a lesser clarity, eye clean and same carat weight. Or I was in desperate need for an upgrade policy. Where I'm from the idea of upgrading seems a lot rarer, almost bizarre.

Put it this way, I'd be far more up for upgrading than my wife ever will be...

You researched diamonds and bought a beauty! I totally understand your stance on clarity and I wonder if the magnified images steer people away from what would be completely eye clean stones at a better price point.

Thanks. Superideal vendors, particularly HPD offer lots of eye clean SI2s (much more so than WF for example) which I greatly respect them for. They receive raving reviews. If those stones were subject to the same magnified video I'm sure many of those happy buyers may have overlooked.

Thanks for your input @Rockdiamond. I think leakage is over stated here, but I do think frank leakage on MRB strongly correlates to deadspots. Then again a little bit of leakage and the majority wouldn't notice.
About the part in bold- it's great to gain new knowledge- putting it into perspective is crucial for pragmatic reasons. IMO, it's that perspective which is lacking in a lot of cut discussions here on PS.

I think perspective is arguably the hardest part of learning!
 

ratatat

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
253
Just adding my 2c... as for me, I had a GIA XXX JVS1 HCA 1.1 34/40.8/54 (actually my very first one was a very cloudy SI that we had to send back after receiving reassurances from JA that it was completely eye clean and not cloudy - the cloudiness was apparent from the moment we opened the box).
It was nice, but never "wowed" me in the way that I had read people talking about.
Upgraded to a AGS000 HSI1 eyeclean 34.9/40.8/55.2 superideal and I can see a big difference. It's much brighter and sparkler and the faceting is more crisp. With the old one it just seemed to get a bit dull from time to time but the new one is sparkly even when a little dirty.
Can anyone else tell the difference? Is it worth the premium? I think the trouble with online advice is that everyone has different taste, different eyesight, different priorities and budgets etc. If you're trying to decide which of the c's is less or more important without actually having seen with your eyes what any of it means it's very hard to actually decide. You might read that a J colour for example is white enough then in real life you might find that it isn't (or is). People are trying to put into words what you can only really understand when seeing it in person.
I think people on here are only right to advise posters on what they think is the best way to go, of course good diamonds can be skipped over if you have a very dogmatic approach, but if you're buying blind online there has to be some guideline to help noobs like me figure it all out
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top