Loose Stone Selection New York City

[Carolynw]

Hi,

Well we went to a few recommended places in New York City.
Can anyone comment on whether this stone would be a nice stone:

1.78 round
E color
VS1
Cut: Very Good
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

The proportions indicate:
58% table
33.5 degrees top slant
41.2 degrees bottom slant
Thin: girdle
Thick: faceted

Says: 61.1 % down the middle
and then
43.5% not sure what this is
anyway the GIA is 16171813

 

[gontama]

It is very nice of you to keep helping frineds or relatives? The diamond you found can be a nice one. But I think it is more likely that this diamond http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3687/ with the same E color and the same VS1 clarity and very close weight(1.74ct)/diameter(7.76) performs better or more eye pleasing because of its guaranteed optical symmetry and tight cut. BS looks very good too. No intention to disturb your shopping. Just could not help providing my personal opinon...

 

[hedarud]

If the price is right, it may be good value...

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.6 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

 

[Carolynw]

It''s around 22,000.00 , does that price seem right?

 

[MrNyceGuy]

Hi, I just ran the AGA report for the diamond which basically gives you a grade on the cut. You already know your color and clarity are really nice, and you''ve even seen it in person from what it sounds like. Anyway, the report grades the diamond at a 1B which is the second highest grading you can get. That''s the same grade as the one I''m ordering. I think it''s a great diamond, but perhaps if you are willing to lower the color a little (which I did) you could get a larger stone for the same price. (I''m looking at a 2.5ct J VS2 rated a 1B cut as well). Just some food for thought, but not for everyone. Hope this helps.

 

[Carolynw]

Thanks for running that, so 2nd highest 1B, if it said excellent on the cut, would it immediately push it up to highest, or do the other variables have to be taken into consideration too, and that is why this is up there to 1B, since it says
very good, and not excellent, but is it the other proportions that are making it a great diamond. ?

 

[surfgirl]

What did it look like in person?!? Did it "speak" to her?

 

[Chase035]

I highly recommend reading some of the tutorials under the knowledge section of this website (especially the material on diamond cut). There''s a lot to understanding diamond cut. And if you want something you''d be happy with if you were an informed consumer, it''d help to become an informed consumer.

 

[Skippy123]

You should make a trip to Good Old Gold if you can.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/25/2007 5:06:14 PM
Author:Carolynw
Hi,

Well we went to a few recommended places in New York City.
Can anyone comment on whether this stone would be a nice stone:

1.78 round
E color
VS1
Cut: Very Good
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Flourescence: None

The proportions indicate:
58% table
33.5 degrees top slant
41.2 degrees bottom slant
Thin: girdle
Thick: faceted

Says: 61.1 % down the middle
and then
43.5% not sure what this is
anyway the GIA is 16171813

It is probably the best so far.

If it is painted a little the small amount of table leakage would be not such a problem.
This model has excellent optical symmetry - GIA''s excellent can mean little in the context of this DiamCalc example.
The scores are all excellent if they all = 1.00. So it is up there.

But it will show a bit more dirt than the stones we prefer.

 

[Carolynw]

HI Garry,

When you say painted alittle, can you tell me what that means?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/25/2007 9:14:31 PM
Author: Carolynw
HI Garry,

When you say painted alittle, can you tell me what that means?

No Carolynw, you will need to do some research if you want to go that deep. Use the search box on this page.

But you do not need to if you let the others here help and guide you.
Although constantly moving threads makes it hard for those trying to help you.
Not a bad idea to copy some links into the old ones so people can follow

 

[Carolynw]

Yes, sorry, I thought they wanted a new thread on it.
This thread goes with the Tiffiny Harry Winston Cartier thread.
They are now searching for a loose stone instead of going with above.
This stone looks nice to them, they are thinking of getting it,
and then ordering the Michael B Crown Lace, 2.5 mm version
band and ering for it.

 

[Carolynw]

This is the original thread:
New York Shopping Cartier , Michael C Fina , Graff, Van Cleef, Tiffinys

 

[solange]

With the exception of professionals and Pricescope experts, most people will not notice the subtle nuances that are referred to here. I have been on Pricescope for some time and taken most of the tutorials.
I frankly cannot tell a fabulous stone from a very good one, especially since stones look different in different lighting situations.
Looking through the multiple listing section, the price seems good to me although I am no expert. It is certainly not overpriced as were the stones you looked at that were not as good in the high end shops. As Garry stated, it is the best one yet.
You have looked around enough to know what looks good to all of you. It is possible that they could do slightly better with a lot more effort. However, your SIL is obviously color sensitive and likes the E color. I am sure it will look gorgeous in the setting she has chosen.
If she loves the stone, maybe she should just go ahead with it. She might want to have it appraised just to be sure.

 

[elmo]

It''s a good size with nearly a 2 carat look. As another alternative I noticed a couple of promising stones 2.25-2.30 F-VS2 with AGSL reports $30-31K listed with the usual suspects here, not all in the pricescope search engine, a visible step up in size from that one...total cost would still be less than what they were seeing at the high end places. I personally like a taller crown and smaller table than on that one, but the collective PS wisdom says it works. An AGSL stone with "0" light performance will normally get the broadest blessing here. But I agree with solange, I often have a hard time seeing a difference.

 

[Carolynw]

Elmo, can you look at the other post, there is a 2 carat also available,
its in the Harry Winston post.

 

[Carolynw]

I decided to go back to this post, all in the same area.

The two loose stones they are looking at now and are serious about: Can you tell me which one is better?

Gia# 14909318
Carat Weight 2.01
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 62.0%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 36 degrees
Pavilion Angle: 41 degrees
Pavilion Depth: 43 %
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
Cutlet: None
$29,000.00
other one:
GIA #16171813
Carat Weight: 1.78
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 61.1%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 33.5%
Crown Height: 14%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2%
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle: Thin to Thick Faceted
$22,000.00

 

[elmo]

Between those 2 the 1.78 for me.

This is just "paper" and those have been "seen" in person, but here's an example of a better alternative to the 2.01 to me, on paper:

2.27 F VS2 61.7% 55 AGS m-stk no vg vg no 8.39-8.46x5.20 40.8/34.3 76%lg or here, about $30K.

 

[Carolynw]

Can you comment on why the 1.78 is better, just curious, because I noticed on the
2.01 it says: Cut Grade: Excellent.

Must be the issue of the other specs. Right?

 

[elmo]

Date: 10/26/2007 10:58:05 AM
Author: Carolynw
Can you comment on why the 1.78 is better, just curious, because I noticed on the

2.01 it says: Cut Grade: Excellent.

Must be the issue of the other specs. Right?

I'm not the best person to answer this, and this has been debated here ad nauseum, but in general GIA allows much steeper/deeper combinations than AGSL for their top cut grade. The AGSL top cut grade is a more narrow range, mostly within the GIA range, but also including some shallower combinations that the GIA doesn't. The issue with the 1.78 may be that the girdle ranges to "thick" instead of "slightly thick", which automatically gets it a VG, as I thought that crown/pavilion combination was allowed by the GIA. Need to check though.

Edit: here's an 11 page rambling but related topic, still an interesting read: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/41-degree-pavillion-angle.65301/.

Edit: in case 11 pages of rambling is too much to cover

, a central debate there was whether a stone less steep/deep than this 2.01 was close enough to perfect to be mind clean. I'm not an expert but to me, 36/41.x has gone far enough past anyone's "sweet spot" that economics dictated the result more than ideals.

 

[surfgirl]

Carolyn, I''m feeling like you all are starting to split hairs on this search, rather than see the stone and feel the vibe it''s giving you (gee, that didn''t sound earthy/crunchy at ALL, did it?!

). What I''m dying to know is, did this stone jump out as "the one!" Because trust me, when she finds "the" stone, she''ll know it and it wont matter what each minutae detail is - it''ll just speak to her and she''ll know. IMO of course!

 

[Carolynw]

Surfgirl:
The problem honestly is that all the stones are beautiful that we have looked at, they just want to be sure that it is a good stone. I mean, honestly , they probably wouldn''t even or I wouldn''t eve know the difference between
a G and E color, or SI1 to VS1. So, basically what Im saying, is we are that dumb, that we would possibly not get such good quality because we dont'' know by looking at it, they all look beautiful to us.
So, that''s why we moved further, and took a look at the GIA, report, etc.. and tried to find someone
we could trust to get the loose stone, since we couldn''t get the diamond quality we wanted from HW or Graff, etc.. because of the cost. I mean, those were beautiful too, but when we put the specs on here, it was determined the cost of them wasn''t worth the price, and if we choose a loose one from a dealer, then we could get the setting separately and be guaranteed for the $$ they are spending they get a good stone, and a beautiful stone./
What im trying to say, is if they just went on it was beautiful and bought it, then they would have plunked down the 40,000 on the HW one, but it wouldn''t have been worth it because the quality was not as good as this loose stone
1.78 that I listed above. Hope im making sense.

 

[elmo]

What in reality are some fairly minute differences in quality, or maybe better to say characteristics, end up making fairly big differences in price. So don't feel bad.

I think you're doing the right thing - looking at lots of stones. The more you look, the more you'll pick up on these differences, and you'll be better equipped to know what your preferences really are and where you can just settle.

Solange had an important point though, they behave differently in different lighting, so as you go from one place to another it's hard to make a meaningful comparison. I wish there was someone you were simply comfortable with, either a good seller or a good appraiser. Even pay to have some stones sent home to play with

.

Last piece of advice from me. I think the quality of the piece of jewelry is ultimately more important than the last two tenths of a percent of some angle. Many folks worry endlessly about the stone and not so much with the overall piece of jewelry, but I think that makes the biggest difference in the end, as long as you make a fairly reasonable diamond selection. It's sort of what Nicrez was saying so much better on your last thread. I'm still guilty of worrying about technical details, but less so with time.

 

[surfgirl]

Carolyn, I''m certainly not implying that you or they are stupid in any way. Only that we''ve seen people come here and get so into the minute details that I sometimes feel that they''re losing sight of buying a stone in person. To me, when she looks at a stone and just thinks "oh my god!" that will be her stone. But that''s just me. Mind you, I also look at whatever info is available on the stone/ring, but at some point, I think they have to love what they''re looking at and go with it.

 

[Carolynw]

Elmo and Surfgirl, thank you. I agree. I think this 1.78 is good, they are going to buy it.
Then they are going to get a nice quality setting of Michael B, the Crown Lace Petite version,
the ering and band. Hopefully that quality and this nice diamond, they will be happy with.
I mean, I think your right, the diamond has to look great to them, and it does, and
i think the specs after you helped them here, is pretty good, so they are just going
to get that one, rather than the 2.01 one.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 10/26/2007 5:15:02 PM
Author: Carolynw
Elmo and Surfgirl, thank you. I agree. I think this 1.78 is good, they are going to buy it.
Then they are going to get a nice quality setting of Michael B, the Crown Lace Petite version,
the ering and band. Hopefully that quality and this nice diamond, they will be happy with.
I mean, I think your right, the diamond has to look great to them, and it does, and
i think the specs after you helped them here, is pretty good, so they are just going
to get that one, rather than the 2.01 one.

Yay, I am glad they found something they like!!!

 

[surfgirl]

Yeah! Cant wait to see it!

Carolyn, one thing about that setting...I'm wondering if anyone here can tell us if the Lace setting set rubs against each of the bands or if it's no problem. I'd hate for them to have ANY issues once they finally get this in their hands! I've always wondered that myself since the pave sections seem to wrap around to the sides of the bands...

 

[Carolynw]

Surfgirl: Yes, I saw that about this setting, I will ask Michael Fina in New York on Monday morning.
We are going back down there to buy the diamond. It''s a crazy scene in the diamond district.
High security, one of the buildings we went in we had to be fingerprinted, it''s the one
that the GIA is located in. Then they peak through the window of the floors you go and
try to see diamonds, anyway, kind of scary in a way. The place they are getting the diamond
was referred to them by VanCleef, the sales guy told them of a friend that sells Wholesale.
It truly is a wholesale place, very exciting going inside, lots of action, people moving all over
shuffling, selling probably, but they were very nice and only allowed us in because of
the sales guy is a friend and he referred us. Anyway, the setting we will find out if they
rub, because you can try them on at Michael C Fina, and we will get a feel for if they will
rub too much and cause damage. If they do, they will probably pick a different setting,
maybe a Jeff Cooper, one of his classic styles are nice, and I guess he is located right
on Long Island, and I guess takes only 2 weeks for the setting. Either way, I don''t think
they can go wrong with either Jeff Cooper or the Michael B. The Lace one is more classic
I think then the others with diamonds going all the way around all over, Princess i think it''s called.
Anyway, ill let you know Monday about the rubbing, etc..
Kind of funny they ended up going from HW, Graff, Tiffinys, CArtier, and how just picking a diamond
and buying a setting. I think they are smart to do it that way. I mean the Cartier settings and HW
ones are pretty, but really, the Michael B and Jeff Cooper ones are just as nice or even nicer in
a way, plus now they get a better diamond.

 

[surfgirl]

So at the risk of not having to go back and review ALL the posts on this shopping odyssey, did they get a way bigger stone this way, compared to the luxury retailers they were looking at?