Looking for Help Selecting Round Solitaire

[snowpow]

Sledge , is it worth paying extra for .2mm ?
If not then .734 VS2 ACA would be at top of my list.

 

[snowpow]

Here few more options I was told by a jeweler are great. I can get them for 2800 and 3000.

1295682724

And
https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=C8KR6XYL5V

Any thought on these?

 

[lovedogs]

Here few more options I was told by a jeweler are great. I can get them for 2800 and 3000.

1295682724

And
https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=C8KR6XYL5V

Any thought on these?

So these would be from an outside jeweler rather than WF? Given your tight timeline, I would strongly suggest sticking with a trusted vendor who can get you everything (e-ring, wedding band, etc).

 

[snowpow]

So these would be from an outside jeweler rather than WF? Given your tight timeline, I would strongly suggest sticking with a trusted vendor who can get you everything (e-ring, wedding band, etc).

This is from my local person

 

[snowpow]

This is from my local person

Here are the performances :

 

[sledge]

Sledge , is it worth paying extra for .2mm ?
If not then .734 VS2 ACA would be at top of my list.

Ultimately, only you can answer this question. I don't know your money situation. I just know that you initially had a budget of $3k so spending $3.5k is probably a little uncomfortable and I imagine $4k might be hurting a little.

If I were you, I would be happy to spend the extra $500 to get a super ideal with sparkle galore, and access to one of the best upgrade programs available (full credit of original purchase when you spend $1 more in the future). I don't think a local dealer will be able to match the fire, customer service or upgrade program available with WF. So I feel this is money well spent and will make a significant difference.

The size bump would be nice of course, but I just don't think it's significant enough to justify pushing you another $500 over budget so I would likely stick with the 0.734.

Here is a picture of the 0.818ct and 0.734ct side by side using actual dimensions of each stone. What do you think?

https://www.diamdb.com/compare/0.73ct-round-5.79x5.81x3.57-vs-0.82ct-round-5.97x5.98x3.71/

 

[sledge]

Here few more options I was told by a jeweler are great. I can get them for 2800 and 3000.

1295682724

So this first stone, 1295682724, is interesting in the fact it's what we call a 60/60 stone, meaning the depth and table is equal to around 60% as evidenced on the GIA cert below.

The key advantage is a stone of the same weight can appear to have more spread, and will throw more white light vs rainbow light. People typically associate rainbow light as "fire". So a 60/60 stone is typically more bright where an ACA stone will be cut differently and throw more fire.

Here is a good article about the matter that gives you some details, but doesn't get too technical on you.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/60-60-diamonds-1503.htm

In short, this is a preference thing. Most people prefer the style offered by WF, and most will advise against a 60/60 purchase unless you've seen the difference and know you like/prefer the 60/60 style of stone. So with that said, this isn't a stone I would necessarily recommend for you based on your time table and probably not knowing the true difference.

You can see by looking at the cert that the crown & pavilion angles are much different than the parameters I previously gave you. This is because the large table affects the required angles. Getting a 60/60 stone with 33/41 angle combo is actually really good. It puts you in an ideal range for that style of stone as shown below. Because of goofy GIA rounding & averaging, the blue box is more realistic.

And
https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=C8KR6XYL5V

Here are the performances :

So I really like the small 54 table. This small table means it has the ability to produce lots of fire. But I'm not a fan of the shallow 33.5 crown paired with a 40.8 pavilion and would not recommend this stone for you to maximize fire.

Additionally I noticed on the video and images you linked, one of the arrows doesn't look dark. Also, I noticed there was an idealscope image as well. I can see the symmetry is off on the arrows and also notice there is leakage around the table.

 

[snowpow]

Sledge , May I ask what do you do for living ???
So much valuable information !
You are amazing . I am so greatfull.
No way I would be able to learn this on my own in such a short time frame.
So ... I guess you still recommend sticking with WF unless my dealer can match the program ?!? And these 2 stones not worth it ?
Not that it will change my mind in any way if you say yes but Do you have any affiliation with WF?

 

[lovedogs]

Sledge , May I ask what do you do for living ???
So much valuable information !
You are amazing . I am so greatfull.
No way I would be able to learn this on my own in such a short time frame.
So ... I guess you still recommend sticking with WF unless my dealer can match the program ?!? And these 2 stones not worth it ?
Not that it will change my mind in any way if you say yes but Do you have any affiliation with WF?

No one on here has any affiliation with vendors (other than their own personal experience) UNLESS they have a "trade" badge. And if they are "trade", they are specifically not allowed to comment on specific stones or products. That way people can generally trust the advice they get on here, since none of us have "skin" in the game in terms of what people buy (of course everyone has their "favorite" vendors, but no financial interests).

 

[snowpow]

here is another stone that just popped out since I am increasing my budget :
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3824053

they can ship to me and my local guy will provide a setting and bands

it rated as 1.4 on HCA

 

[TreeScientist]

I'm not really a fan of their True Hearts line. They jack up the prices on those stones to unreasonable amounts. Also, you need to pay attention to the "ship by" date. For the stone you just posted, the "ship by" date is Setpember 18th, which means it is likely located overseas. You need to be looking at diamonds that have a "ship by" date of the 14th, which means they are located in America.

This one is a great example. Good angles, and I don't think the twinnings wisps will be an issue since it's a VS1:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5628223

Listed for $300 cheaper here at Adiamor.
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0..../D42003791?rfr=rc&utm_campaign=201809&b=3.480

And the ship by date is the 14th, which means that the diamond is located in the U.S. (most likely in NYC).

 

[TreeScientist]

However, I still think working with WF may be in your best interest here. There's a lot that can go wrong between the drop-shipper procuring and shipping a diamond, you transferring the diamond to the jeweler, and the local jeweler having it done for you in time. Working with WF takes the worry and uncertainty out of it. I would trust WF wholeheartedly. If the say they can have it to you by the 28th, then I have no doubt that you'll have a you'll have a beautifully-executed ring in your hands on the 28th. 0% uncertainty. None whatsoever.

So the .734 G/VS2 from WF still has my vote, but it's ultimately up to you how much risk you want to take on with this short timeframe.

 

[sledge]

Sledge , May I ask what do you do for living ???
So much valuable information !
You are amazing . I am so greatfull.
No way I would be able to learn this on my own in such a short time frame.
So ... I guess you still recommend sticking with WF unless my dealer can match the program ?!? And these 2 stones not worth it ?
Not that it will change my mind in any way if you say yes but Do you have any affiliation with WF?

Glad I could help you. And thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them.

No, I am not affiliated with WF or any other vendor. Just a diamond enthusiast.

If I were you, I'd stick with WF. You are on a tight time frame and while you may like that 60/60 stone from the local guy, there are no guarantees. The majority prefers a typical stone so with your time frame I think you need to go with the most sure thing possible. The stone we've been talking about is a sure thing and will not disappoint.

here is another stone that just popped out since I am increasing my budget :
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3824053

they can ship to me and my local guy will provide a setting and bands

it rated as 1.4 on HCA

You're getting better at picking stones. This one is a true H&A stone meaning it will have good symmetry. Angles are good, but that is to be expected on an AGS certified stone with an Ideal 0 cut grade. What I don't like is that 58.5 table. It would be an acceptable stone, but won't sparkle as much as one with a smaller table and with proprietary cut techniques like the WF stone.

Also, I don't see the advantage. You will be spending about $300 more for a stone that doesn't outperform the one we've been discussing.

Not to mention JA isn't always the quickest to turn things around, but if you go that route you should definitely check with them and get a guarantee they can make your schedule.

 

[TreeScientist]

P.S. I don't work for WF. I have no affiliation with them whatsoever. As @lovedogs said, none of us here have any industry affiliation unless we have the "trade" badge in the upper right corner of our posts. Actually, as I said before, I'm usually one of the most critical on this site of paying a premium for one of the branded SuperIdeal cuts, and am a big proponent of shopping around on the open market to find a well-cut diamond for a great deal.

But I will say that the SuperIdeal vendors have absolutely excellent customer service and support, and pretty much always come through for their customers who have very tight deadlines and/or very specific demands. Plus they have all of the diamonds in their possession, so they can take photos and videos of the diamonds in real time, give you hand shots, etc. It's really the best way to go when you need to make a quick decision.

 

[snowpow]

Guys ok I was about to pull a trigger on the .734 G VS2 ACA and got an email offering me $3574
This
AGA 1192483256 for 3200
Didn’t see the stone though... he said this is the best he can get his hands on .... this is from ID J

What do you think, should I look into it or just stick with WF

 

[sledge]

IDJ has a knack for finding great quality stones for smaller budgets. I think they could probably make your deadline as well, but you should confirm with Yeukitel.

Here's the thing though, for $300 more you get a super ideal and a much better upgrade program.

I'm mobile so I didn't pull the cert to review all parameters but assuming it's a PS quality AGS000 stone I'd be willing to consider IDJ if you had a different time table and the price difference was greater.

I will say this. You need to make a decision and pull the trigger. Someone will end up poaching one of "your" stones and/or you are going to back yourself in a box that you cant beat timewise.

 

[Kaycee2018]

Guys ok I was about to pull a trigger on the .734 G VS2 ACA and got an email offering me $3574
This
AGA 1192483256 for 3200
Didn’t see the stone though... he said this is the best he can get his hands on .... this is from ID J

What do you think, should I look into it or just stick with WF

Do you mean this GIA diamond:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1192483256&s=1536866066143

Looks like a former Brian Gavin stone based on the inscription and also AGS graded:
AGS# 104051366017
Report Type: The Platinum Light Performance Diamond Quality® Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.95 - 5.97 x 3.69 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 0.800
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments: "<Brian Gavin. symbol> 104051366017" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond. Additional clouds are not shown.
Light Performance: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 54.8%
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown Height: 15.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.7% to 3.8%
Girdle Description: Thin to Medium
Pavilion Angle: 40.7
Pavilion Depth: 42.9%
Star Length: 52%
Lower Girdle Length: 77%
Total Depth: 61.8%
Culet: Pointed

 

[SimoneDi]

Nice investigative work @Kaycee2018 !

OP, you are getting plenty of help with the diamond, but I am just popping in to say to please not get the Vatche felicity. I have tried the setting in person and it is the most uncomfortable setting ever. Look at the Vatche Venus instead, model 1508. It is very similar, but much more comfortable.
Also, IDJ offers the best Vatche prices that I have seen and they also have plenty of available settings in store.

 

[sledge]

Do you mean this GIA diamond:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1192483256&s=1536866066143

Looks like a former Brian Gavin stone based on the inscription and also AGS graded:
AGS# 104051366017
Report Type: The Platinum Light Performance Diamond Quality® Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.95 - 5.97 x 3.69 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 0.800
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments: "<Brian Gavin. symbol> 104051366017" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond. Additional clouds are not shown.
Light Performance: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 54.8%
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown Height: 15.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.7% to 3.8%
Girdle Description: Thin to Medium
Pavilion Angle: 40.7
Pavilion Depth: 42.9%
Star Length: 52%
Lower Girdle Length: 77%
Total Depth: 61.8%
Culet: Pointed

Oh, hot damn. BGD is a super ideal and what I bought my fiancee. If this is indeed the stone I'd be tempted.

You still need to verify:

1. IDJ can meet your schedule.

2. Why the stone was re-graded as GIA? Probably a trade-in from a previous customer. If so, any issues with pre-loved?

3. Ask IDJ and BGD about future trade in. If this was a BGD stone with inscription it may still be eligible to trade with BGD but you'd have to pay the AGS cert fee when you did so. How much value/weight does the trade in carry with you?

 

[Wewechew]

I don't believe trade in programs are transferable, unfortunately.

 

[Wewechew]

Here is a thread listing the link to the diamond in its former life lol. Unfortunately the link no longer works

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/buying-an-engagment-ring-from-robbins-brothers.161541/

And the cert: https://agslab-content.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/pdf/104051366017-PLDQR.PDF

 

[sledge]

Attached are PDF and PNG versions of both the GIA and AGS certificates.

Something I would like to point out. Many of us talk about the goofy ways that GIA reports values, why we encourage idealscope and/or ASET's, etc. This is a great time to point out why.

AGS reports are more accurate. Here is a great example:

• Table = 56% per GIA; 54.8% per AGS
• Crown Angle = 34.5 per GIA; 34.7 per AGS
• Pavilion Angle = 40.6 per GIA; 40.7 per AGS
• Lower Girdle Facets = 80 per GIA; 77 per AGS
• Star Facets = 50 per GIA; 52 per AGS
• Girdle = Medium per GIA; Thin to medium per AGS
• Crown Height = 15.5% per GIA & AGS
• Pavilion Depth = 43% per GIA; 42.9% per AGS
• Overall Depth = 61.8% per GIA & AGS

One method in which we can quickly verify angles reported on the GIA certs is to compare them to the AGS proportions chart to get a potential cut grade. While this doesn't ensure this is the cut grade we get, we can get a sense of how well cut the diamond will likely be. Also, we can run an HCA to verify a score of 2 or less. Finally we'd want to request idealscope, ASET and H&A images if they are available.

We have the luxury of knowing this particular stone is an ideal cut, and a true H&A stone as it was previously a BGD stone. Most the time we don't know this when shopping for GIA stones and/or the stone simply does not have such a pedigree.

In this case, using angles from AGS or GIA provide roughly the same analysis. The GIA values are a little less great (two boxes are in excellent, as opposed to all ideal but one excellent using AGS values). However, the AGS proportion charts are also limited in the crown values. We must choose in 0.5 increments so 34.5 or 35.0. I chose 34.5 as it was closest to 34.7.

That said, here are the proportion charts using each set of values:

GIA Proportions:


AGS Proportions (Silly to run this as we know the AGS cert uses advanced 3D modeling that supersedes these old AGS proportions charts -- but I am doing as a matter of practice only. Rarely are we so fortunate to have a cert from both labs to confirm awesomeness.):


Lastly, below are the certifications as I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

 

[snowpow]

This is absolutely mind blowing.... you guys are incredible. And so fast. I feel like I am running out of words to thank you all for such an amazing help.
You need to start charging for this ...

Honestly I have no Idea what BGD is and really need to figure out if I am going with WF tonight (they already sent me wire instructions). So I feel like WF is a safe bet here and I am a bit concerned that the stone was branded/rebranded. Even though it is 0.8 on HCA... and WF dimond 1.3
Am I going to regret that $400 difference and 0.066 in ct weight?

I also see 0.8 stone was branded as SI 1 vs WF VS2...

I feel like I need someone to tell me what to do .... Sory Guys I am juggling so many thing now and this has been overwhelming.....

I like WF sleek line legato setting but it is 1200. When I told them that I can see similar settings from ID for like 300-400 . Their reply was: WF rings are made specifically for the stone and not mass produced .
That’s the reason for price .

Is there any issues taking that dimond to ID in hopes to get similar looking setting for 3 times less in price?
I am thinking about what WF said and wondering if mass produced rings distort visual proportions of the dimond to setting, where custom made insures perfect balance so the stone doesn’t look small.

 

[sledge]

This is absolutely mind blowing.... you guys are incredible. And so fast. I feel like I am running out of words to thank you all for such an amazing help.
You need to start charging for this ...

Honestly I have no Idea what BGD is and really need to figure out if I am going with WF tonight (they already sent me wire instructions). So I feel like WF is a safe bet here and I am a bit concerned that the stone was branded/rebranded. Even though it is 0.8 on HCA... and WF dimond 1.3
Am I going to regret that $400 difference and 0.066 in ct weight?

I also see 0.8 stone was branded as SI 1 vs WF VS2...

I feel like I need someone to tell me what to do .... Sory Guys I am juggling so many thing now and this has been overwhelming.....

I like WF sleek line legato setting but it is 1200. When I told them that I can see similar settings from ID for like 300-400 . Their reply was: WF rings are made specifically for the stone and not mass produced .
That’s the reason for price .

Is there any issues taking that dimond to ID in hopes to get similar looking setting for 3 times less in price?
I am thinking about what WF said and wondering if mass produced rings distort visual proportions of the dimond to setting, where custom made insures perfect balance so the stone doesn’t look small.

BGD = Brian Gavin Diamonds

Brian helped co-found WhiteFlash and then eventually left and formed his own company. He is very well respected and definitely a reputable super ideal vendor.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/about/

Both WF and BGD are very good companies with excellent product. As I noted earlier, the diamond my fiancee is wearing is a BGD stone. I had a great time working with Lesley during my entire journey. I will say there upgrade policy is not as generous as WF. The differences being:

• WF = spend $1 more and get full credit of the original purchase
• BGD = spend $1 more and upgrade 2 of the following 3 to get full credit: carat weight, color or clarity

As @Wewechew pointed out, this stone MAY NOT be upgradable through BGD. If you are considering this purchase, I would want to know this as life changes and while you may not anticipate an upgrade, it's a very nice option to have. I do know I've heard of people having BGD re-cut heirloom stones that was previously poorly cut and when the grading comes back BGD will then inscript their logo on the diamond and it becomes eligible for the upgrade program; however, I think there are some pretty steep costs for that last time I read about it.

I personally haven't had to deal with it. So I would simply pick up the phone and call Lesley (Brian's wife and VP) and confirm before you decide.

Also, you raise a good point about the clarity difference. One thing I noticed looking back over that is that clouds was the grade setting inclusion on that stone. And there is a note that says "additional clouds are not shown". This is NOT a death sentence, but this particular combo frequently fairs bad for SI1 stones it means they may appear cloudy/hazy. This said, I would veer that being a BGD super ideal stone, there were NO issues. However, it is something that would need verified just to be safe.

But honestly, it sounds like you do not like the branding and re-branding situation. The cost difference is very minimal to get the WF stone. You can buy the WF stone and have it shipped to you, or IDJ; however, I would again caution you against getting multiple vendors involved without a strong guarantee everyone can meet your strict time deadlines.

 

[sledge]

I forgot to mention....the HCA does NOT apply to AGS certified stones. The reasoning is fairly simple. GIA uses less advanced 2D modeling to determine angles, etc. The HCA makes an attempt to analyze that data in combination with the table and depth to approximate anticipated light return.

In comparison an AGS certified stone undergoes 3D scanning when it is certified. A computer model of the stone is generated and that is why you see an ASET image on AGS certs. Because their software is designed to look at the stone in a 3D view, they can very accurately predict light return and assign a cut grade. The highest cut grade available is an Ideal 0 cut.

With the 3D scan you are dealing in absolutes and at an in-depth level the HCA is not capable of doing. Therefore, the AGS cut grade supersedes HCA. As such HCA should be ignored and is not applicable to AGS stones.

Lastly -- you said someone needed to tell you what to do. Given the factors I know and all the confusion I'd buy the stone & setting from WF. You will get a top notch quality product and they will have the most reasonable shot of meeting your very tight deadline.

Hit the easy button! Wire the money and be done with it.

 

[Wewechew]

I second @sledge's advice- I'd go with WF.

 

[kindred]

I 3rd the Whiteflash suggestion. In part because of the potential for future upgrades and in part because some people don't like knowing their diamond was "used" (Though Brian Gavin cuts gorgeous diamonds!) You are on a tight deadline so either way I would pull the trigger ASAP.

 

[Swirl68]

I like WF sleek line legato setting but it is 1200. When I told them that I can see similar settings from ID for like 300-400 . Their reply was: WF rings are made specifically for the stone and not mass p

Is there any issues taking that dimond to ID in hopes to get similar looking setting for 3 times less in price?
I am thinking about what WF said and wondering if mass produced rings distort visual proportions of the dimond to setting, where custom made insures perfect balance so the stone doesn’t look small.

Were these similar settings from ID for 300-400 in platinum or gold? The WF sleek line legato is 1200 in platinum but 800 in 18K WG.

 

[sledge]

Were these similar settings from ID for 300-400 in platinum or gold? The WF sleek line legato is 1200 in platinum but 800 in 18K WG.

Agree, assuming @snowpow was indeed looking at the solitaire version. If looking at the pave version, price starts at $1,256 via wire. I actually prefer the plain metal solitaire myself, which is also cheaper.

 

[Dancing Fire]

GIA graded the stone as a VS2, but AGS graded it as a SI1.