Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Looking for 1.5ct FL/IF
- Thread starter Hodne
- Start date
- Status
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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With every due respect to you, I just don't see how that's germane to this thread.
We shouldn't sit in judgment on others' decisions on when to propose and what their values are. You don't have to agree with them, but to infer that someone should have proposed earlier if they thought their situation was so great....in my opinion, that's overstepping the line.
The man is here looking for help. Those who can provide it should, and those who can't should do their level best to avoid castigating this guy's decisions.
Just my humble opinion.
jenibear
Shiny_Rock
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Richard Sherwood
Ideal_Rock
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I remember when I first started in the jewelry business, at the age of 25, that my hands would shake whenever I was showing a piece of jewelry priced over $3,000.
I would find myself subconsciously trying to talk the prospective buyer out of spending what seemed to me a ludicrous amount of money on a "bauble".
I'll never forget when my employer, a multi-millionaire third generation fine gem dealer took me aside and said, "Richard you've got to understand something. You're unconsciously hemming these people into your financial world. Stop it. For them, buying a $10,000 piece is like you buying a $100 lamp from Burdines. Snap out of it, sell them what they want, and you'll be able to buy what you want."
Now, 24 years later, I've handled pieces worth over a million dollars, and my hands are steady as a rock.
I would find myself subconsciously trying to talk the prospective buyer out of spending what seemed to me a ludicrous amount of money on a "bauble".
I'll never forget when my employer, a multi-millionaire third generation fine gem dealer took me aside and said, "Richard you've got to understand something. You're unconsciously hemming these people into your financial world. Stop it. For them, buying a $10,000 piece is like you buying a $100 lamp from Burdines. Snap out of it, sell them what they want, and you'll be able to buy what you want."
Now, 24 years later, I've handled pieces worth over a million dollars, and my hands are steady as a rock.
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Dear Hodne,
I have been reading this thread with interest, although I did not like how it almost got dragged into the mud.
I would like to give you some background on how difficult it is to locate such a stone, like you are willing to buy.
Being based in Antwerp, and cutting super-ideal diamonds, it should however be easy for me. I am sorry, it is not. Let me explain.
Since I do not have the D-IF, that you want in stock, I should cut one for you. I cannot start from buying rough, because in the rough, it is impossible to predict if the stone will be D or E, and certainly not if it will be IF.
The quickstart for me would be to find a finished stone, with a lesser make, and to re-cut it to super-ideal standards. With the stone already being cut, it is much easier to assess the current colour and clarity, and hence the final colour and clarity.
So, let me find you a +1.75 Ct, D-IF, with GIA-cert to re-cut. The problem is that we hardly find GIA-certs on the Antwerp wholesale-market. If a cutter has his stones graded by GIA, it means that he is also selling them directly in the U.S. The GIA-certs that I get offered for sale here, are the ones with a flaw, being either a mistake of GIA, or such an ugly stone, that it is unsellable in the U.S. Option 1 is thus not possible.
Option 2, I find a similar stone as above, but with HRD-cert. These certs are generally for sale on the Antwerp market, so I should be able to find one. However, HRD does not use the IF-grade, but the LC-grade (loupe-clean). If HRD sees an inclusion, but it is smaller than a specific micron-length, the stone is graded as LC, because the inclusion is so small that it cannot be found with a 10x-loupe. Also graining is not regarded as an inclusion by HRD, while it is by GIA. Because of this, many HRD-LC's are not GIA-IF's. If I buy a HRD-D-LC however, I buy it based on Rapaport of D-IF, which is 19000$/Ct for a +1.50, but if it returns as D-VVS1 from GIA, I am faced with a Rapaport of 13300 $/Ct. In other words, I take an enormous loss on that stone. The problem is also that it is very difficult to predict whether GIA will definitely give the IF-grade. In any case, the gamble is too big to take.
Other than these risks, there is the risk of the stone being damaged in re-cutting and the risk of the stone not getting EX-EX in GIA.
I would love to get your business, and cut you the perfect stone to order, but I cannot reasonably guarantee you that I can deliver you the stone in a reasonable period of time, while I risk to loose a lot of money (more than in other situations), each time that I start working on a stone for you.
You should understand that any certified D-IF is a lucky shot for a cutter, and that the original stone was never bought with D-IF in mind. Therefore, I would strongly consider the stone that Jonathan of GoodOldGold has in stock, because this is a very scarce item with a very reasonable price-tag.
If I was in any way unclear, please ask for more info.
Live long,
Paul
I have been reading this thread with interest, although I did not like how it almost got dragged into the mud.
I would like to give you some background on how difficult it is to locate such a stone, like you are willing to buy.
Being based in Antwerp, and cutting super-ideal diamonds, it should however be easy for me. I am sorry, it is not. Let me explain.
Since I do not have the D-IF, that you want in stock, I should cut one for you. I cannot start from buying rough, because in the rough, it is impossible to predict if the stone will be D or E, and certainly not if it will be IF.
The quickstart for me would be to find a finished stone, with a lesser make, and to re-cut it to super-ideal standards. With the stone already being cut, it is much easier to assess the current colour and clarity, and hence the final colour and clarity.
So, let me find you a +1.75 Ct, D-IF, with GIA-cert to re-cut. The problem is that we hardly find GIA-certs on the Antwerp wholesale-market. If a cutter has his stones graded by GIA, it means that he is also selling them directly in the U.S. The GIA-certs that I get offered for sale here, are the ones with a flaw, being either a mistake of GIA, or such an ugly stone, that it is unsellable in the U.S. Option 1 is thus not possible.
Option 2, I find a similar stone as above, but with HRD-cert. These certs are generally for sale on the Antwerp market, so I should be able to find one. However, HRD does not use the IF-grade, but the LC-grade (loupe-clean). If HRD sees an inclusion, but it is smaller than a specific micron-length, the stone is graded as LC, because the inclusion is so small that it cannot be found with a 10x-loupe. Also graining is not regarded as an inclusion by HRD, while it is by GIA. Because of this, many HRD-LC's are not GIA-IF's. If I buy a HRD-D-LC however, I buy it based on Rapaport of D-IF, which is 19000$/Ct for a +1.50, but if it returns as D-VVS1 from GIA, I am faced with a Rapaport of 13300 $/Ct. In other words, I take an enormous loss on that stone. The problem is also that it is very difficult to predict whether GIA will definitely give the IF-grade. In any case, the gamble is too big to take.
Other than these risks, there is the risk of the stone being damaged in re-cutting and the risk of the stone not getting EX-EX in GIA.
I would love to get your business, and cut you the perfect stone to order, but I cannot reasonably guarantee you that I can deliver you the stone in a reasonable period of time, while I risk to loose a lot of money (more than in other situations), each time that I start working on a stone for you.
You should understand that any certified D-IF is a lucky shot for a cutter, and that the original stone was never bought with D-IF in mind. Therefore, I would strongly consider the stone that Jonathan of GoodOldGold has in stock, because this is a very scarce item with a very reasonable price-tag.
If I was in any way unclear, please ask for more info.
Live long,
Paul
Hodne
Rough_Rock
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Honestly, what people around here can do is look at the INFORMATION available about GOG's stone and look for any detraction evident. The current prezentation of the stone does not show any blatant detraction. Of course, this does not mean that there are no issues that may appear once the respective item is inspected. This would be true with any stone. This is no issue: you would just have to ask the same to Jonathan (PS is not a place where dealers should promote their own stuff, after all) and have the stone inspected by an appraiser.
It appears that the H&A cut you are after is the most constraining characteristic you are looking for. Are you sure that none of the companies producing branded round cuts has in stock what you are looking for? I hope this makes sense...
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This answer is based on the info available. Jonathan should be able to help you better.
If you take 10,000 D-IF's of +1.50 Ct, this one is certainly within the top-3 in cut-quality. More in detail, on 100,000, it would certainly still be in the top-10.
However, if it ranks only 10th, it means that 9 are better.
The difference would be minimal, and if you go into that detail, you will see that none of the top-10 are completely perfect.
Live long,
Paul
If you take 10,000 D-IF's of +1.50 Ct, this one is certainly within the top-3 in cut-quality. More in detail, on 100,000, it would certainly still be in the top-10.
However, if it ranks only 10th, it means that 9 are better.
The difference would be minimal, and if you go into that detail, you will see that none of the top-10 are completely perfect.
Live long,
Paul
Mikesgirl
Shiny_Rock
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- Aug 30, 2003
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- 348
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About the stone at GOG, can someone tell me what its negative features are?
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There really don't seem to be any. Some might say it should be larger, some might take issue with the Very Good spread on the HCA. I think that, when the GIA decide what their standards for ideal cut are, definitions of perfect might change. But you can always have it recut if it isn't perfect anymore. Look at it as cosmetic surgery for diamonds.
About the stone at GOG, can someone tell me what its negative features are?
----------------------------
There really don't seem to be any. Some might say it should be larger, some might take issue with the Very Good spread on the HCA. I think that, when the GIA decide what their standards for ideal cut are, definitions of perfect might change. But you can always have it recut if it isn't perfect anymore. Look at it as cosmetic surgery for diamonds.
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Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Leonid is on vacation and won't be back until Saturday...so we are on our own until then.
Diamondsman, I think it's appropriate for you to take your business with Hodne OFFLINE through PM or email. Pscope has never been about vendors openly assisting customers with selling them their stones on public forum.
While I would actually love to hear what Rhino has to say about the 1.60 and 1.84 on open forum, it's probably not appropriate either considering the turn the thread has taken....so would suggest staying offline with that discussion as well.
Hodne--suggest you discuss actual business with the vendors directly offline. When you've got a few stones you are seriously considering, people will chime and love to help you make your final decision. But soliciting the business then discussing on open forum is a thin line to cross IMO.
My two cents...
Interesting stuff though Paul....I thought it was easier for cutters to determine from rough what the finished product would be--now I see I was grossly mistaken.
Happy Thanksgiving all!
Diamondsman, I think it's appropriate for you to take your business with Hodne OFFLINE through PM or email. Pscope has never been about vendors openly assisting customers with selling them their stones on public forum.
While I would actually love to hear what Rhino has to say about the 1.60 and 1.84 on open forum, it's probably not appropriate either considering the turn the thread has taken....so would suggest staying offline with that discussion as well.
Hodne--suggest you discuss actual business with the vendors directly offline. When you've got a few stones you are seriously considering, people will chime and love to help you make your final decision. But soliciting the business then discussing on open forum is a thin line to cross IMO.
My two cents...
Happy Thanksgiving all!
Hodne
Rough_Rock
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Thanks for clearing that up Mara.
Hodne... if you'd like to know *in detail* what seperates these stones from 99% of other's on the market, even those that would fall in the D/IF category drop me an email and I'll be more than happy to point these attributes out to you. This forum is for educational purposes and is unethical for me or any vendor to solicit here.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Warm regards,
Rhino
Hodne... if you'd like to know *in detail* what seperates these stones from 99% of other's on the market, even those that would fall in the D/IF category drop me an email and I'll be more than happy to point these attributes out to you. This forum is for educational purposes and is unethical for me or any vendor to solicit here.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Warm regards,
Rhino
Hodne
Rough_Rock
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pqcollectibles
Ideal_Rock
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Very interesting thread. Lots of info. Many thanks to Paul!
Rhino and Good Old Gold have shown class once again!
Kudos, Mara, for the comments to Diamondsman. Toooo many times his posts are mere thumps to peddle his wares.
Good Luck Hodne in finding a truly remarkable diamond. The folks at GOG are very honest and fair. They have a great reputation here on the forum.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Rhino and Good Old Gold have shown class once again!
Kudos, Mara, for the comments to Diamondsman. Toooo many times his posts are mere thumps to peddle his wares.
Good Luck Hodne in finding a truly remarkable diamond. The folks at GOG are very honest and fair. They have a great reputation here on the forum.
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Just reminding you all what the original question was
(I have been trying to locate a 1.5ct. FL/IF, D, H&A with HCA score EX on all points with no luck. I want this stone to be as perfect as possible. Please contact me if you can provide me with a diamond like this.
PS. I am NOT interested in a stone of lesser quality!)
I just asked him to about the stones I didnot mention nor promoted anybody.just the fact that I have found his type of stones he was looking for!!
Contrary to what mara is doing , she is constantly promoting the same vendors all the time, hmmm I wonder why???
I have been on this forum for more than a year and she had never mentioned me or some other vendors, always the same people,hhhhmmm I wonder why?????
I also think that pqcolectiables comment about me trying to sell my wares is suspecious as he keeps on promoting in his posts the same vendors all the time, Hmmm I wonder why??he/she claims somthing that he/she would have to prove!!
I am not trying to sell my ware in this thread as I was just giving out information on stones that the consumer was looking for!!
he/she was specific about what they are looking for ,and specifically wrote to contact them,
how was I suppose to answer!!
If I offended anyone I apologise!
(I have been trying to locate a 1.5ct. FL/IF, D, H&A with HCA score EX on all points with no luck. I want this stone to be as perfect as possible. Please contact me if you can provide me with a diamond like this.
PS. I am NOT interested in a stone of lesser quality!)
I just asked him to about the stones I didnot mention nor promoted anybody.just the fact that I have found his type of stones he was looking for!!
Contrary to what mara is doing , she is constantly promoting the same vendors all the time, hmmm I wonder why???
I have been on this forum for more than a year and she had never mentioned me or some other vendors, always the same people,hhhhmmm I wonder why?????
I also think that pqcolectiables comment about me trying to sell my wares is suspecious as he keeps on promoting in his posts the same vendors all the time, Hmmm I wonder why??he/she claims somthing that he/she would have to prove!!
I am not trying to sell my ware in this thread as I was just giving out information on stones that the consumer was looking for!!
he/she was specific about what they are looking for ,and specifically wrote to contact them,
how was I suppose to answer!!
If I offended anyone I apologise!
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----------------
On 11/27/2003 2:36:59 PM Mara wrote:
Leonid is on vacation and won't be back until Saturday...so we are on our own until then.
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Mara,
You obviously have serious experience with this online-communication business. I don't even remember where I have first seen any rule about the "Code of Commercial Conduct" on Price Scope. It must have been when I first signed up and the respective shade of marketing restraint made this virtual forum unmissable. The way Rino puts it ("This forum is for educational purposes and is unethical for [...] any vendor to solicit here.") would make a great HEADLINE subtytle under that "Diamond Prices and Grading Q&A Forum" line on tp of this page. Ok, maybe my take on webpage aestetics is a bit askew, but surely you know what I am getting at by now: providing instant backup for anyone to rise a red flag infront of more or less mildely infriging posts. After all, there are so many shops out there, but precious few spots where customers and sellers can actually chat without the whole preassure of the sale hanging like the proverbial sword.
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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On 11/27/2003 11:38:15 PM valeria101 wrote:
I don't even remember where I have first seen any rule about the 'Code of Commercial Conduct' on Price Scope.
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Let me clear that up for you. It appears at the bottom of this page.....under "Forum Policies"....and it reads as follows:
This forum is, above all, a place for consumer assistance and education, not advertisement. If you are a member of the trade, please follow the following post content rules:
- Post helpful advice.
- Do not make blatant commercial posts or requests to visit your website.
- Do not use a promotional slogan in your signature. You may sign your posts with your name, credentials and company name.
- Do not create fear-based doubts in consumers' minds in order to scare them into using your services.
- Do not mention your products or services unless requested in the thread by a consumer.
- The above rules also apply to private message posting and emails to the forum members.
- It will be the sole discretion of Pricescope and its moderators as to what constitutes an abuse of these rules. If you are not certain about the content of your post, please send a private message to the moderator prior to publishing it.
Further.......there IS an instant red-flag mechanism......the buttom located on every post that says "report this post". Unfortunately, there is no one to report the post to if Leo isn't here.....hence the gentle reminder from Mara.
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Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Diamondsman...my post was just a reminder to everyone about forum rules, which we all agreed to when we signed on to post with Pscope. I don't feel this needs to be blown completely out of proportion, but in the future, anyone can find the 'Private Message' button and use that if necessary. Yes, Honde asked for vendors to contact him (and specifically said 'contact me')....so make the effort to contact him offline. Why post online that you have found his perfect stone? It just opens up avenues for other vendors to want to do the same thing or feel slighted. Next time just stop and hit that PM button and there won't be any confusion.
End of story. My two cents
End of story. My two cents
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Contrary to what mara is doing , she is constantly promoting the same vendors all the time, hmmm I wonder why???
I have been on this forum for more than a year and she had never mentioned me or some other vendors, always the same people,hhhhmmm I wonder why?????
I also think that pqcolectiables comment about me trying to sell my wares is suspecious as he keeps on promoting in his posts the same vendors all the time, Hmmm I wonder why??he/she claims somthing that he/she would have to prove!!
DiamondsMan,
Hello,
Let me tell you that the reason you or some other vendors do not get promoted on this site is very simple...
You offer some constuctive feedback and comments from time to time in your threads...
I don't think I have seen one thread (I might be wrong) where anyone has offered in any detail any experience they have had with you or your service....
Yes, the same vendors are pumped and promoted here...It is for one reason...
These vendors educate and inform and offer exceptional service...Type in NiceIce, GoodoldGold, & Super-B-Cert...
I think you are getting the picture....Yes, there are many other vendors who do not get promoted here...Brad and Jan from DBOF have a few post but their customer base for net buyers is mainly on Diamondtalk along with a couple other vendors...Dirt Cheap Diamonds has a couple testomonials in this forum, but again they are not a regular contributor to this forum, but advertise their banner...
This forum generates revenue for vendors by how they contribute and the content of their post....The general public is very good about spotting someone who is looking to market rather than educate...
Look at the major players on this site with all the great testomonials...The trend is vendors and appraisers are self-advertising by educating...The content is very important and the more experience and insight they give to the general consumer, better odds they will create a larger customer clientel via this site...The more responses and testomonials lead to more sales....
Yes there are other vendors who are not mentioned here, but they do not take part in the forum and people sharing experience with them do so in another type of format over on DT..
I just think you are making a lot of assumptions by insinuating that Mara or any of us have alterior motives on this forum...
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(These vendors educate and inform and offer exceptional service..)
I have been on this forum for over one year. I have given alot of advise to consumers from my experience of being in the diamond industry for over 30 years, diamonds are my passion !!!
I think that there are "some people" that are affiliated with some vendors pretending to be an outsider trying to educate the public, and actaully are working for these vendors!!!
I have been in business for 30 years doing very well without trying to promote myself. business always came my way from word of mouth.
I just am reminding you what the original question was, he posted a request!!!
I asked him what he thinks about these stones!! didnot mention myself nor my business.
end of my story
I have been on this forum for over one year. I have given alot of advise to consumers from my experience of being in the diamond industry for over 30 years, diamonds are my passion !!!
I think that there are "some people" that are affiliated with some vendors pretending to be an outsider trying to educate the public, and actaully are working for these vendors!!!
I have been in business for 30 years doing very well without trying to promote myself. business always came my way from word of mouth.
I just am reminding you what the original question was, he posted a request!!!
I asked him what he thinks about these stones!! didnot mention myself nor my business.
end of my story
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 23,295
Diamondsman,
Get your diamonds listed in the pricescope search engine and you might get recommendations from me.
I do not have the time to search 30 websites for suitable diamonds and likely no one else does either.
If it takes more than a couple min. its not going to happen.
Being here a year you would think you would have figured that out.
Listing the crown and pavilion angles for as many diamonds as possible on your site would help a lot also.
A lot of sites do not list them on anything but the real high end stuff and branded stones but by doing it for the more common dimonds is one way you could make yourself stand out.
Just my 2c.
Get your diamonds listed in the pricescope search engine and you might get recommendations from me.
I do not have the time to search 30 websites for suitable diamonds and likely no one else does either.
If it takes more than a couple min. its not going to happen.
Being here a year you would think you would have figured that out.
Listing the crown and pavilion angles for as many diamonds as possible on your site would help a lot also.
A lot of sites do not list them on anything but the real high end stuff and branded stones but by doing it for the more common dimonds is one way you could make yourself stand out.
Just my 2c.
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- Nov 11, 2002
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- 648
aljdewey, very unprofessional of you to talk this way!!! and I dont appreciate you bashing my site!!I spent a lot of money on it and you have no right doing what you did!!!
you dont know the facts!!!
here they are:
1)I got over 40,000 stones listed on my site and if you can't finbd it there you cannot find it anywhere!!
2) It would be impossible for me to scan every certificate on to my website,that is why I have a template that shows what the cert looks like!!
3)most websites have the same stones,with the exception that I own alot of these stones,not to say that some of them dont , but I know that a lot of them dont own stones!
4) I dont advertise on pricesope or any other place because my margin of profit doesnot allow me to spend so much money as these places require!!
5) I think that I have one of the most competitive prices on the web!!!
6) g.i.a doesnot give ant cr.height or pavillion angles on their certs!!thousands of stones are being sold everyday in b&m stores and on websites without the info you are claiming is needed, does that mean that these people are not as educated as you are!!
also please don't lecture me about my site or the way i am conducting myself on this forum,as i have been giving more realistic information to consumer then you ever did!!!
look back at my posting I only asked what he thinks of this stones!!
you dont know the facts!!!
here they are:
1)I got over 40,000 stones listed on my site and if you can't finbd it there you cannot find it anywhere!!
2) It would be impossible for me to scan every certificate on to my website,that is why I have a template that shows what the cert looks like!!
3)most websites have the same stones,with the exception that I own alot of these stones,not to say that some of them dont , but I know that a lot of them dont own stones!
4) I dont advertise on pricesope or any other place because my margin of profit doesnot allow me to spend so much money as these places require!!
5) I think that I have one of the most competitive prices on the web!!!
6) g.i.a doesnot give ant cr.height or pavillion angles on their certs!!thousands of stones are being sold everyday in b&m stores and on websites without the info you are claiming is needed, does that mean that these people are not as educated as you are!!
also please don't lecture me about my site or the way i am conducting myself on this forum,as i have been giving more realistic information to consumer then you ever did!!!
look back at my posting I only asked what he thinks of this stones!!
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