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Lets make some diamond knowledge courses, with a quizz

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
14,776
In another discussion moneymeister said:
There is another forum around that is to pearls what PS is to diamonds. That particular forum has a CPAA course that takes a few hours (it took a few days) to complete. It was designed to educate the forum pro-sumers and other pearl lovers. Upon completion of the chapter and quizzes, the student receives a lovely certification. Just a thought as you are thinking about education models.

I love the idea - perhaps a course for Newbies (it could have diamond videos and cool stuff).
And a course for pro-sumers.
We could throw in an Ideal-scope card, which fits in a shirt pocket or handbag, and can be mailed out with the certificate!

We need volunteers to write the courses. We will also accept recommendations, i.e. vote for poor suckers to help.

Edited to add, Karl thinks we will narrow down further to group think - we definitely need not become more elitist!

GH and card 2.png
 
Last edited:

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,359
I think this could be a good idea, with badges underneath the avatars that tell if you've gone through "PS university" or whatever. Just an unobtrusive way to indicate to people getting advice the rough knowledge level of people giving it.

And perhaps also badges for people who have gone through the GIA courses if there would be a way to email the mods to prove that - I know a few of us have done some of them just for fun. Like I've done the GIA "essentials" courses and keep meaning to do the e-learning ones that are the more advanced ones in the same series.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think primary authors/curators of any courses or learning intended for PSers should not be PSers first and foremost ::) industry professionals who happen to play on PS would be ideal! (Do you want names for nomination? I’ve got some poor suckers in mind...)

I haven’t done GIA coursework, but would love to. If only there was a way to use GIA’s courses for some part of this effort! Does PS have any relationship with GIA that could be useful in this regard?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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I think primary authors/curators of any courses or learning intended for PSers should not be PSers first and foremost ::) industry professionals who happen to play on PS would be ideal! (Do you want names for nomination? I’ve got some poor suckers in mind...)

I haven’t done GIA coursework, but would love to. If only there was a way to use GIA’s courses for some part of this effort! Does PS have any relationship with GIA that could be useful in this regard?
Well, I suppose you are entitled to an opinion Yssie (a joke from a different thread that Karl will like).
Frankly I am not a fan of GIA (sales) course material.
I think a balance of input would work and the idea that there is always only one correct answer - well that is wrong too. I am a fan of multiple choice where there are more than one correct answer. and sometimes with an option to write your own answer (harder to mark though).
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Well, I suppose you are entitled to an opinion Yssie (a joke from a different thread that Karl will like).
Frankly I am not a fan of GIA (sales) course material.
I think a balance of input would work and the idea that there is always only one correct answer - well that is wrong too. I am a fan of multiple choice where there are more than one correct answer. and sometimes with an option to write your own answer (harder to mark though).
Yeah the essentials courses were heavily sales motivated - but I can also see how the $250 course is aimed pretty squarely at a sales associate for Zales or somewhere.
 

amoline

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
307
Please let me know if there are any photography/professional imaging duties with which I may assist.

I would love to utilize my own expertise in something as fun as this.

Andrew M
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,672
I think a balance of input would work and the idea that there is always only one correct answer - well that is wrong too. I am a fan of multiple choice where there are more than one correct answer. and sometimes with an option to write your own answer (harder to mark though).
I think the first sentence could be a key aspect of any PS course - we don't usually see agreement from all of the PS Trade members :lol: so inclusion of all possible viewpoints would help fully inform the consumer/participant.

I like that there are different viewpoints, it helps understanding and reduces the 'echo-chamber' risk that has been mentioned in the other thread :)
 

moneymeister

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Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,347
I like the idea of varied viewpoints too. The echo chamber is a natural outcome of learning as you do, from other people who learned as they went with a specific bag of tools to use :) We can expand those tools for a fuller understanding.

I have no business writing content, but I have a background in web graphics and web design and volunteer those services as needed. It's not my "day job", but I work for free.

Not sure if Pearl Paradise is a sponsor, but you may be able to reach out to Jeremy for background that would be helpful. It was put together with an impressive panel of experts in the field. I really enjoyed the course.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
2,894
I'd rather read anything else...

If you already know that having such a thing will fail to make the forum look like a purists' racket, so be it [then, those might work]

Then, yes, Pricescope needs a readable abridged version of its wisdom, possibly achievable as a very co-authored & co-edited bit of text. Perhaps teaching-like; perhaps as a collection of real tales of taste making, with scanty technicals in sidenotes & additionals, over a few levels of depth. The forum is read this way, from cases to technicals, I would immagine, so what the text would do is make short work of a natural exercise.

2c

I know what it takes making such a thing, so I am not volunteering. Course writing is a hell of a job.
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,640
@Garry H (Cut Nut) this is a fabulous idea. While there are non-trade participants who clearly know their stuff, there have been others participating here who ramble off what proportions to look for yet they do not know what it all means and I loathe when I see people advising who have no background. Additionally, it isn’t always so cut and dry... there are many factors beyond a mere framework of specs that will or will not yield a beautiful diamond.
I will agree with what has already been said here that the GIA Essentials course content is not enough to qualify one to advise on a diamond purchase.
Going a large step beyond that, I recently just received my GIA Graduate Diamonds Diploma (I’m now working on the Colored Stones track toward earning the GG designation). Please note: I do not work in the trade... if that should ever change I will make it known here so my posts are represented appropriately. My point in mentioning that I have received my Diamonds Graduate from GIA is even with that, which was a lot of work culminating in a very challenging lab week at GIA, I still am very new at this. Perhaps it is because I don’t work in the jewelry business, nor ever have. But what I do know is that there are SO many factors that come into play. Additionally, I will tell you that everything I have learned about super ideals and images has been from time spent here. GIA doesn’t cover any of this because it’s not their technology. Also, they advocate for their grading system, of course, so words like “super ideal”, “AGS”, “ASET”, “Idealscope” are not part of the vernacular. Additionally, the concept of rounding does not make a significant impact in their view, contradictory to the PS philosophy. But, as we know, to get anywhere, you have to have the GG, so that’s where we have to start even if much of the GIA approach is contradictory to what is advocated and promoted here. Even to move up the ladder of AGS designations, you have to have the GG.
But, even with the issues of GIA, having that education shows someone has demonstrated/possesses a minimal level of knowledge. I think participants with no formal education or way to systematically establish one’s competencies (such as an exam) are great for giving opinions on setting ideas, how things appear to their eye, etc., but I think people that have been just passing on what to look for with no documented knowledge base is not a great thing.
As to confirming a participant’s coursework/credentials, a photo of the diploma could be emailed to the PS administrator.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
14,776
@Garry H (Cut Nut) this is a fabulous idea. While there are non-trade participants who clearly know their stuff, there have been others participating here who ramble off what proportions to look for yet they do not know what it all means and I loathe when I see people advising who have no background. Additionally, it isn’t always so cut and dry... there are many factors beyond a mere framework of specs that will or will not yield a beautiful diamond.
I will agree with what has already been said here that the GIA Essentials course content is not enough to qualify one to advise on a diamond purchase.
Going a large step beyond that, I recently just received my GIA Graduate Diamonds Diploma (I’m now working on the Colored Stones track toward earning the GG designation). Please note: I do not work in the trade... if that should ever change I will make it known here so my posts are represented appropriately. My point in mentioning that I have received my Diamonds Graduate from GIA is even with that, which was a lot of work culminating in a very challenging lab week at GIA, I still am very new at this. Perhaps it is because I don’t work in the jewelry business, nor ever have. But what I do know is that there are SO many factors that come into play. Additionally, I will tell you that everything I have learned about super ideals and images has been from time spent here. GIA doesn’t cover any of this because it’s not their technology. Also, they advocate for their grading system, of course, so words like “super ideal”, “AGS”, “ASET”, “Idealscope” are not part of the vernacular. Additionally, the concept of rounding does not make a significant impact in their view, contradictory to the PS philosophy. But, as we know, to get anywhere, you have to have the GG, so that’s where we have to start even if much of the GIA approach is contradictory to what is advocated and promoted here. Even to move up the ladder of AGS designations, you have to have the GG.
But, even with the issues of GIA, having that education shows someone has demonstrated/possesses a minimal level of knowledge. I think participants with no formal education or way to systematically establish one’s competencies (such as an exam) are great for giving opinions on setting ideas, how things appear to their eye, etc., but I think people that have been just passing on what to look for with no documented knowledge base is not a great thing.
As to confirming a participant’s coursework/credentials, a photo of the diploma could be emailed to the PS administrator.
Thanks HeadLight, I can honestly say I have learned more here than anywhere else including the Australian Gem and Diamond courses (I became head lecturer and national convenor of the diamond course till I had to choose my kids over the GAA).
I have learned stuff this very week from some of our discussions on the current threads (I go research stuff that I am not sure of very often).
Learning is a journey, not a destination. Keep it up!
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,085
@Garry H (Cut Nut) this is a fabulous idea. While there are non-trade participants who clearly know their stuff, there have been others participating here who ramble off what proportions to look for yet they do not know what it all means and I loathe when I see people advising who have no background. Additionally, it isn’t always so cut and dry... there are many factors beyond a mere framework of specs that will or will not yield a beautiful diamond.
I will agree with what has already been said here that the GIA Essentials course content is not enough to qualify one to advise on a diamond purchase.
Going a large step beyond that, I recently just received my GIA Graduate Diamonds Diploma (I’m now working on the Colored Stones track toward earning the GG designation). Please note: I do not work in the trade... if that should ever change I will make it known here so my posts are represented appropriately. My point in mentioning that I have received my Diamonds Graduate from GIA is even with that, which was a lot of work culminating in a very challenging lab week at GIA, I still am very new at this. Perhaps it is because I don’t work in the jewelry business, nor ever have. But what I do know is that there are SO many factors that come into play. Additionally, I will tell you that everything I have learned about super ideals and images has been from time spent here. GIA doesn’t cover any of this because it’s not their technology. Also, they advocate for their grading system, of course, so words like “super ideal”, “AGS”, “ASET”, “Idealscope” are not part of the vernacular. Additionally, the concept of rounding does not make a significant impact in their view, contradictory to the PS philosophy. But, as we know, to get anywhere, you have to have the GG, so that’s where we have to start even if much of the GIA approach is contradictory to what is advocated and promoted here. Even to move up the ladder of AGS designations, you have to have the GG.
But, even with the issues of GIA, having that education shows someone has demonstrated/possesses a minimal level of knowledge. I think participants with no formal education or way to systematically establish one’s competencies (such as an exam) are great for giving opinions on setting ideas, how things appear to their eye, etc., but I think people that have been just passing on what to look for with no documented knowledge base is not a great thing.
As to confirming a participant’s coursework/credentials, a photo of the diploma could be emailed to the PS administrator.
@headlight ,
Congrats on your DG. Keep up the good work!
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,640
@headlight ,
Congrats on your DG. Keep up the good work!
Thank you SO much! Given I have never worked in a jewelry store, the lab week was really overwhelming. I can assure you that stones were flying out of the tweezers the first day or two!!! I was up all night every night in my hotel room studying the manual. I never thought I would pass the 2 stone exam but to my surprise I did AND got great scores... I was in shock Actually, the entire class passed and the instructors said that doesn't happen very often, so kudos to the instructors!
Thanks for the encouragement! It is quite the challenge, but I am loving it. I have a Master's Degree and I think this is more difficult!
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,085
Thank you SO much! Given I have never worked in a jewelry store, the lab week was really overwhelming. I can assure you that stones were flying out of the tweezers the first day or two!!! I was up all night every night in my hotel room studying the manual. I never thought I would pass the 2 stone exam but to my surprise I did AND got great scores... I was in shock Actually, the entire class passed and the instructors said that doesn't happen very often, so kudos to the instructors!
Thanks for the encouragement! It is quite the challenge, but I am loving it. I have a Master's Degree and I think this is more difficult!
Good for you. It takes discipline and persistence to get through it all, especially if you are doing the main courses by distance. It's a marathon not a sprint!
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
3,871
@Garry H (Cut Nut) this is a fabulous idea. While there are non-trade participants who clearly know their stuff, there have been others participating here who ramble off what proportions to look for yet they do not know what it all means and I loathe when I see people advising who have no background. Additionally, it isn’t always so cut and dry... there are many factors beyond a mere framework of specs that will or will not yield a beautiful diamond.
I will agree with what has already been said here that the GIA Essentials course content is not enough to qualify one to advise on a diamond purchase.
Going a large step beyond that, I recently just received my GIA Graduate Diamonds Diploma (I’m now working on the Colored Stones track toward earning the GG designation). Please note: I do not work in the trade... if that should ever change I will make it known here so my posts are represented appropriately. My point in mentioning that I have received my Diamonds Graduate from GIA is even with that, which was a lot of work culminating in a very challenging lab week at GIA, I still am very new at this. Perhaps it is because I don’t work in the jewelry business, nor ever have. But what I do know is that there are SO many factors that come into play. Additionally, I will tell you that everything I have learned about super ideals and images has been from time spent here. GIA doesn’t cover any of this because it’s not their technology. Also, they advocate for their grading system, of course, so words like “super ideal”, “AGS”, “ASET”, “Idealscope” are not part of the vernacular. Additionally, the concept of rounding does not make a significant impact in their view, contradictory to the PS philosophy. But, as we know, to get anywhere, you have to have the GG, so that’s where we have to start even if much of the GIA approach is contradictory to what is advocated and promoted here. Even to move up the ladder of AGS designations, you have to have the GG.
But, even with the issues of GIA, having that education shows someone has demonstrated/possesses a minimal level of knowledge. I think participants with no formal education or way to systematically establish one’s competencies (such as an exam) are great for giving opinions on setting ideas, how things appear to their eye, etc., but I think people that have been just passing on what to look for with no documented knowledge base is not a great thing.
As to confirming a participant’s coursework/credentials, a photo of the diploma could be emailed to the PS administrator.
Congratulations on your Graduate Diamonds @headlight.

Wait to you get to Gem Identification, there is a 20-stone final. Miss one and you fail, but by the time you take that exam, you would have tested hundreds of stones.

I have my Gemologist (GIA) Diploma and I did it through Distance Education back when they had Scantron forms. There was a comprehensive final exam covering all 5 courses, Diamonds, Diamond Grading, Colored Stones, Colored Stone Grading, and Gem Identification.

To get my GG I would need to take the 3 lab classes but not the comprehensive final again.
Not something that I would do now being that I am retired.

Good luck with your studies.
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,640
Congratulations on your Graduate Diamonds @headlight.

Wait to you get to Gem Identification, there is a 20-stone final. Miss one and you fail, but by the time you take that exam, you would have tested hundreds of stones.

I have my Gemologist (GIA) Diploma and I did it through Distance Education back when they had Scantron forms. There was a comprehensive final exam covering all 5 courses, Diamonds, Diamond Grading, Colored Stones, Colored Stone Grading, and Gem Identification.

To get my GG I would need to take the 3 lab classes but not the comprehensive final again.
Not something that I would do now being that I am retired.

Good luck with your studies.
Yes, I am aware of the daunting gem
ID practical! But I have an amazing instructor who is so enthusiastic for my success and it’s empowered and encouraged me!
Come join me, let’s do it together!
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,335
Everything needed for a written course is already on Pricescope, but it is not easy to get to it in a simple and uniform way. There are many threads which offer so much differing opinion on nearly any topic one would have a difficult time knowing what set of opinions are more correct than others. Within the opinions are some facts, but not everything which looks factual is truthful.

What is needed is a list of topics for each segment or each lesson.
We could start a topic with that in mind and see how many good lessons are needed.
At the same time, seek out those who wish to volunteer to work on the project and let them select lessons which interest them or ones where they have expertise.
Those volunteers will be assigned to search Pricescope as well as deliver information found elsewhere which fits that particular lesson subject. Sources of copied information should be footnoted properly.
After those answers are reviewed and sorted, a series of lessons can be created and hosted for others to utilize for learning.

Sounds like it should be easy, but experience tells me it is a highly complex and deep job. It should appeal to many of our frequent posters.
 

HDer

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
673
This is a great idea. I'd be happy to help with the programming if you all really want to do it.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
7,963
Really great idea Garry!
I would love to participate. Without a doubt, understanding diamonds is a work in progress- for all of us- the major gem labs included.
Like Garry- I've learned tonnage here on PS.
 

psadmin

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,335
Hello everyone,

I appreciate everyone interested in this. I am excited to get this going.

How about we start with the basics first?

We currently have the following wikis that need updates and we can use them as the basis for the beginner quizzes:

Diamond Anatomy for rounds
Carat
Color
Clarity
Cut
 

MonkeysInk

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
343
Commenting here so I get notifications - I’d love to be involved. My professional experience is in HR development and I have some experience designing/implementing training programs.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,719
Start with the questions and work backwards.
What are the most important points for each catagory?
For example....
Color
What is diamond color as graded by the labs for d to z grades?
a. the color of the material
b. the face up color of the diamond
c. the color you see looking at the side of the diamond
d. none of the above.

How are fancy colored diamonds graded for color?
a. the color seen with the diamond resting on its table.
b. the face up color of the diamond in specific lighting.
c. the color you see looking at the side of the diamond
d. none of the above.
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
3,871
Start with the questions and work backwards.
What are the most important points for each catagory?
For example....
Color
What is diamond color as graded by the labs for d to z grades?
a. the color of the material
b. the face up color of the diamond
c. the color you see looking at the side of the diamond
d. none of the above.

How are fancy colored diamonds graded for color?
a. the color seen with the diamond resting on its table.
b. the face up color of the diamond in specific lighting.
c. the color you see looking at the side of the diamond
d. none of the above.
20191225_123302.jpg

From 1987 GIA Diamond Grading Course.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,507
Adding my two-cents here.

Putting together Q&A is a cool idea, but without a design philosophy and hierarchical structure it won't be "coursework." It will be an interactive FAQ.

Curriculum design on an effective scale requires advance planning and methodology.

Example: The three basic educational design-types are subject-centered, learner-centered and problem-centered. Most Americans were educated via SC curricula in their formative classrooms - although Montessori and other private schools employ LC design - but using a problem-centered design for curriculum can be more engaging online for a number of reasons.

The choice of design influences the overall taxonomy flowchart (Education 101) as you harmonize and gradate content across multiple subject areas. Development also goes hand in hand with design, which implies ongoing PDSA, adaptation and course-revision in the original design-style.

Simply put, even the best Q&A gives people fish. Effective coursework teaches people how to fish.

Now let me tap my own brakes. I'm not saying this a bad idea. Not at all. Anything that engages and informs people is positive. I'm all for it. But the thread's title says "courses." Among professional educators that word has specific meaning. I'd like to respect that.

Happy holidays to all, by the way.
 
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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,237
Honestly, doesn't a course on diamonds already exist?


Anyone who has the desire to learn about diamonds informally has a wealth of info right up there under the Knowledge tab. So I am not quite understanding the purpose of this unless you are only going to let people who have passed the "quiz" to respond to posts on RT.
 
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