JM Insurance

[lagirlie]

Hi!

i hope I am posting this in the correct area. i know there was some earlier talk about JM Insurance. I finally received my appraisal today. I asked my jeweler for a non inflated appraisal, so he gave me one for the purchase price which has significantly brought down my premium

Will I regret not getting insurance for the retail price? Or does it not really matter since they try to find you a comparable diamond versus the actual price anyway? A little worried as I think I got a "pretty good" price on my diamond and don't want to end up with a crap one if I lose it.

Side Note: I lose EVERYTHING (like one iphone a year ). It's one of my weaknesses in life. I tend to be a bit flighty and am working on it. My fiance thinks it really is more than likely I will lose my ring at one point (even though I am going to try the hardest I ever have to be very aware and try to prove him wrong).

 

[lagirlie]

Hi!

i hope I am posting this in the correct area. i know there was some earlier talk about JM Insurance. I finally received my appraisal today. I asked my jeweler for a non inflated appraisal, so he gave me one for the purchase price which has significantly brought down my premium

Will I regret not getting insurance for the retail price? Or does it not really matter since they try to find you a comparable diamond versus the actual price anyway? A little worried as I think I got a "pretty good" price on my diamond and don't want to end up with a crap one if I lose it.

Side Note: I lose EVERYTHING (like one iphone a year ). It's one of my weaknesses in life. I tend to be a bit flighty and am working on it. My fiance thinks it really is more than likely I will lose my ring at one point (even though I am going to try the hardest I ever have to be very aware and try to prove him wrong).

I have an eye clean SI1... I'm hearing that most SI1s are not eye clean.. my biggest worry is that they will replace it with a "not eyeclean" stone.

 

[WinkHPD]

If, and only if, your diamond is damaged or lost, you will be involved in the replacement of your diamond and it must be replaced in kind. Jewelers Mutual is not going to have someone just send you a replacement and ask you to live with it.

You will get to go to a jeweler, so long as they are willing to work with JM, and select your own diamond.

Wink

 

[lagirlie]

If, and only if, your diamond is damaged or lost, you will be involved in the replacement of your diamond and it must be replaced in kind. Jewelers Mutual is not going to have someone just send you a replacement and ask you to live with it.

You will get to go to a jeweler, so long as they are willing to work with JM, and select your own diamond.

Wink

Thank you Wink!

 

[sledge]

I might add you want the appraisal to be as detailed as possible. For instance, "no inclusions visible within 6" from the top or side with 20/20 vision" as opposed to "eye clean SI1".

If you bought a branded super ideal, also make sure you include cert that states BGD Black, WF ACA, CBI, etc as that further helps identify it as a specialty brand and then JM, or other insurance provider, doesn't try to replace with a non-branded stone.

I am not certain if you can establish specific proportions on the policy or not. I think this may come into play more if you are insuring a GIA XXX stone as the "excellent" category is so broad, and most of us would agree a slim amount of those diamonds meet our own opinions of excellent, or ideal. For instance a 1ct D VS1 with 54 table, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion and 61.8% depth is much, much different than a 1ct D VS1 with 57 table, 34 crown, 40.5 pavilion and 62.7% depth. Yet both would qualify as "excellent" stones according to GIA.

Lastly, unless your policy is specifically written to guarantee a cash payout, then the claim will be handled so that a like kind diamond is used to establish diamond. If like kind is established at a value of $18,000 but your policy is for $22,000 then you will only get $18,000 to spend on a replacement. Therefore, it's a good idea NOT to over inflate true market value. Generally speaking, I like to have a little fluff as costs tend to creep up every so often. So maybe I'd insure for what you paid + 10% myself. Then in a few years I might have re-appraised and adjust the policy accordingly.

This should help give you a little cushion, without over paying for premiums.

Lastly, I might add a friend's girl lost her 2ct princess cut a few years back. They hadn't gotten the stone fully insured yet, but had partial coverage on a homeowner's policy. The reasoning for the loss is he told his girl not to wear the ring as it was a high risk loss situation. She ignored his advice and in the middle of activities, realized her ring was missing. They never found it. Emotionally, both were distraught for very different reasons. I only mention this to say that losing a diamond tends to be just as much of an emotional loss, if not more so, than a financial loss in some situations.

 

[lagirlie]

Thanks so much @sledge !!! This is very helpful! My stone was an Adiamor Affinity. Does this even mean anything? Like is it a super ideal cut or not really? I don’t think it’s name brand, but I should include so it shows it’s Better than any regular XXX?

https://www.adiamor.com/Education/Affinity-Collection

 

[SimoneDi]

Thanks so much @sledge !!! This is very helpful! My stone was an Adiamor Affinity. Does this even mean anything? Like is it a super ideal cut or not really? I don’t think it’s name brand, but I should include so it shows it’s Better than any regular XXX?

https://www.adiamor.com/Education/Affinity-Collection

You need to have that listed on the appraisal, or alternatively, you can also attach receipts to the policy that show that the diamond was labeled “affinity”. I would make sure that your appraisal is up to date every few years or so and reflects current purchase value. In the unfortunate event that you do need to replace lost or damaged diamond, JM will only pay out a value as high as what you have on your policy. For example, your diamond cost $10k and that is what you have listed on the policy. 5 years from now you need to replace the diamond though insurance. The price of a like diamond is now $15k. JM will only pay out $10k as that is the max value on your insurance and you will need to come up with the difference to get a similar replacement. JM will allow you to work with any jeweler of your choice, they will not give you a replacement. Nonetheless, it is extremely important to have the diamond appraised correctly for the purpose of establishing value. In your case, the differentiator is “affinity cut”.

 

[tyty333]

To help not lose it...
At home only have 1 or 2 designated places for you to put your ring. If you take it off make the effort to go put it in one of the two places.
(I have one place in the kitchen and one place in my closet dressing area).

If you are out and about...dont take it off. If I HAVE to take mine off I put it in my wallet in my change area.

 

[WinkHPD]

I might add you want the appraisal to be as detailed as possible. For instance, "no inclusions visible within 6" from the top or side with 20/20 vision" as opposed to "eye clean SI1".

Sledge,

I agree that it is good to have the appraisal be as detailed as possible. However, I am not sure a well trained appraiser would make the comment about eye clean from six inches from top or side, as diamonds are clarity graded from the top. You are trying to create a new clarity grade that does not exist in the trade. It may make the replacement extremely difficult, especially if cutting is important to the insured.

Perhaps @denverappraiser might see this and come give his opinion. He holds a designation that took years of training to achieve and can give an appraiser's point of view of this particular advice.

Wink

 

[sledge]

Sledge,

I agree that it is good to have the appraisal be as detailed as possible. However, I am not sure a well trained appraiser would make the comment about eye clean from six inches from top or side, as diamonds are clarity graded from the top. You are trying to create a new clarity grade that does not exist in the trade. It may make the replacement extremely difficult, especially if cutting is important to the insured.

Perhaps @denverappraiser might see this and come give his opinion. He holds a designation that took years of training to achieve and can give an appraiser's point of view of this particular advice.

Wink

Thanks for follow up @Wink, I always enjoy chatting with you on various topics.

I am curious. When I was shopping I had actually started using the more common definition of 10" from the top with 20/20 vision. I found a few stones where it was noted inclusions were barely visible from the side at 10" away. This bothered me on a personal level. However, I understand I am likely more picky than the average bear. I also suffer from mind clean issues as well. So for me personally, most SI1's don't meet MY criteria.

If an SI1 or SI2 stone is found with such clarity that meets such stringent personal criteria, how does one go about properly insuring it? While it may fit outside the "industry norms" the fact remains it's a unique stone that many SI1's or SI2's wouldn't meet. And if such rare beasts exist, why weren't they graded a VS2 stone? Most people won't go through the expense or hassle to re-grade but that is probably the most fair way, right?

For that reason, (to me) it seems the appraiser would have the ability to indicate such uniqueness in his assessment of the stone. Of course, I understand and respect that you and @denverappraiser have much more experience and are vastly more qualified to render a professional opinion on the matter.

Just a quick note for those reading along -- while I am curious about this hypothetical situation, I should clarify that I am not expecting any appraiser to falsify information. If a stone is eye clean from 10" on the top view with 20/20 vision then my opinion is I'd like that written so that I can truly replace a stone as near identical as possible; however, if you have an SI2 stone that you can see inclusions from 3' away that is an entirely different story. In no case, should a description be modified to render an opinion that is untrue for the specific stone in question.

 

[WinkHPD]

"Thanks for follow up @Wink, I always enjoy chatting with you on various topics."

I enjoy talking with you too.

If an SI1 or SI2 stone is found with such clarity that meets such stringent personal criteria, how does one go about properly insuring it? While it may fit outside the "industry norms" the fact remains it's a unique stone that many SI1's or SI2's wouldn't meet. And if such rare beasts exist, why weren't they graded a VS2 stone? Most people won't go through the expense or hassle to re-grade but that is probably the most fair way, right?

The grades, SI1 and SI2 are not decided by whether or not the inclusions are eye visible to someone with 20/20 vision at 10", although that seems to be a popular misconception. Eye clean is not part of the grade determination. The grades are decided by the size of the inclusions, the quantity of the inclusions and the nature of the inclusions. The eye clean designation is one that is used mostly by internet retailers who are attempting to describe the visual appearance of the diamond in the eyes of their staff, so that the buyers can have a better idea of what to expect when they receive the diamond.

Personally, I am always careful to say that I personally can or cannot see the inclusions, as I know my vision, while still correctable to 20/20 and since I am near sighted is actually better than most with 20/20 up close, it is still not the same as the vision of my clients.

For that reason, (to me) it seems the appraiser would have the ability to indicate such uniqueness in his assessment of the stone. Of course, I understand and respect that you and @denverappraiser have much more experience and are vastly more qualified to render a professional opinion on the matter.

I appreciate your comment. I have, however, long ago stopped doing any appraisals on items that I did not sell. For those items I have sold I provide an appraisal since I know exactly how much it cost me to make a ring and how much the branded diamond sells for. For the items I did not sell, I refer people to someone like @denverappraiser.

Wink

 

[crbl999]

Neil (@denverappraiser) did a appraisal for me a few years ago. The diamond was a BGD 1 ct G SI2. To my eyes, it was eye clean from every angle and distance. There was no mention of it being eye clean on my appraisal. He did a great job of going over all of the details of the stone and setting with appropriate images and a copy of the AGS certificate.

The appraisal value was about 20-30% higher than the amount I paid for it. I was very pleased with that as it was designed to offset any increase in diamond prices for a couple of years. If it was insured and appraised for the amount I paid, I would not have been able to replace my wife's ring with a similar stone. Her new stone is a BGD 1.07 H VS2.

 

[denverappraiser]

As an appraiser, I can use whatever scales I want, but it’s likely to cause you trouble at claims time if not at underwriting if it’s way out on the fringe (which this is).


Humor me while I tell a story.


A few years ago, one of the Hollywood millionaires got engaged. In the obligatory press release, he talked about the diamond. He had all the usual specs, including an eye-popping price, but also that it came from a spirit cave in Africa and that it had been discovered on a particularly auspicious day. He was very lucky to have found it and the bride was thrilled. Huh? Customers are welcome to buy whatever they want for whatever reasons they want, and I have no clue what jeweler told him that or where they got their information but color me suspicious. More importantly, how is an insurance company supposed to replace THAT? What would be ‘comparable’? Any insurer with sense would kick this out of underwriting on the first day, but any claim with a company that is foolish enough to accept it is a guaranteed headache.


In answer to your question, yes, an appraiser can make up and use whatever scale(s) they want. There's nothing "carved in stone" about GIA. Whether or not this information will be useful is an entirely different issue.

 

[denverappraiser]

By the way, the reason that GIA doesn’t use an ‘eye clean' test as part of the metric is that it adds a whole new set of variables. Whose eyes? What lighting conditions? 20/20 means how your vision is at 20 feet. In some ways that’s related to how you see at 6 inches, but only tangentially. For example, most people focus rather poorly at that distance and those who see the best are decidedly nearsighted. Practice helps a lot, as does knowing what to look for. Is the standard a trained observer or some sort of 'reasonable person' rule?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No reason to add to the amount you paid unless you bought second hand. You could replace it for a similar amount that you paid tomorrow, if needed. Diamonds aren't always going up, anyway. Reappraise only if you see online diamonds going up significantly.