J, K colored diamonds

[FluorIsMore]

Date: 10/20/2006 6:50:14 PM
Author: FacetFire
This may sound weird, but I actually didn''t want a D colored diamond also because I think they look fake sometimes. On some people''s skintones, they look way too white and frankly can look like a CZ.

That seems to be a common put down of colorless by people who have colored diamonds. An ideal cut D will not look anything like a CZ.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:07:18 PM
Author: FluorIsMore

PS's opinions and views are one thing, but they very few in numbers and are far from your average person who knows just know the very basics in everyday real life.

Your average person (views and perceptions) knows that less color means a more expensive and rare diamond.

Our of curiosity, what do you say when someone asks you what color your diamond is? Do you tell them it's a J?

Yeah, you're absolutely right that the average person (outside PSville) knows just the "very basics" of diamond buying -- if even that. And yes, I also agree that they (the "average person" again) has *heard* that less color means a less expensive and "rarer" diamond. But frankly, none of that means anything to me, because that same "average person" knows little to nothing about *CUT* and is wearing a dull and lifeless stone. It *MAY* have been expensive, and it *MAY* even be "colorless" (who knows? who cares?) -- but it certainly doesn't tempt me.

And actually, much rarer than a "D" diamond is an AGS-0, super ideal cut, H&A stone over 2 carats. Of which I own one.

And to answer your last question, no one IRL has EVER asked me the color of my diamond. I have been asked the size (A LOT), and other friendly questions like how long have I had it, where did I get it, who made the setting, etc. But never once a question on color. But FWIW, I happily volunteer that information often.

 

[Ellen]

Ditto to Lynn, no one has ever asked me what color my diamond is, but they have remarked on how clear it is.

This thread is rather colorful though.

 

[FluorIsMore]

I'd like to hear why you didn't go lower in the spectrum down to a L or M. After all, some of you state that you think that color is better than none, then why go with a J and not go lower with even more savings?

When you see a 3ct L or M, but well cut, what's your impression? What would you first reactions be of the diamond and of the person's choice of diamonds?

 

[belle]

sounds like it''s time for some lemon pie!

 

[FluorIsMore]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:17:40 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 10/20/2006 7:07:18 PM

Author: FluorIsMore


PS''s opinions and views are one thing, but they very few in numbers and are far from your average person who knows just know the very basics in everyday real life.


Your average person (views and perceptions) knows that less color means a more expensive and rare diamond.


Our of curiosity, what do you say when someone asks you what color your diamond is? Do you tell them it''s a J?

Yeah, you''re absolutely right that the average person (outside PSville) knows just the ''very basics'' of diamond buying -- if even that. And yes, I also agree that they (the ''average person'' again) has *heard* that less color means a less expensive and ''rarer'' diamond. But frankly, none of that means anything to me, because that same ''average person'' knows little to nothing about *CUT* and is wearing a dull and lifeless stone. It *MAY* have been expensive, and it *MAY* even be ''colorless'' (who knows? who cares?) -- but it certainly doesn''t tempt me.


And actually, much rarer than a ''D'' diamond is an AGS-0, super ideal cut, H&A stone over 2 carats. Of which I own one.


And to answer your last question, no one IRL has EVER asked me the color of my diamond. I have been asked the size (A LOT), and other friendly questions like how long have I had it, where did I get it, who made the setting, etc. But never once a question on color. But FWIW, I happily volunteer that information often.

Apples to apples, wouldn''t a D AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct be more rare than a J AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct?

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:33:10 PM
Author: FluorIsMore
I''d like to hear why you didn''t go lower in the spectrum down to a L or M. After all, some of you state that you think that color is better than none, then why go with a J and not go lower with even more savings?

When you see a 3ct L or M, but well cut, what''s your impression? What would you first reactions be of the diamond and of the person?

Are you TRYING to be argumentative?

I have never seen an ideal-cut L or M diamond in person, let alone one over 3 carats. Although believe me, I would LOOOOOVE to. There was one around here a while ago, I think it was Stephen''s, and from the photos it looked drop-dead gorgeous. IF I had been in the market (and IF it was for sale) I would have certainly been interested in looking at it in person.

When a person is in the market for a diamond, he/she is at the mercy of the inventory(ies) of the vendor(s) they want to buy from. I bought what I bought because it was gorgeous and available at the time I wanted it.

This is what I think you aren''t "getting". I won''t presume to speak for anyone else, but I think it''s safe to say that most PSers do not want a *YELLOW* diamond. (Not unless they want a fancy yellow diamond, but that''s not what we are talking about here, is it?) The common misconception among "the average person" might be that J or K colored diamonds are pee yellow. And some ARE. These ones have either been graded by a really soft lab, or are so poorly cut that they barely perform. Who knows/who cares?

But what I am here to tell you is that my ideal-cut J diamond does not look yellow. It has a slight creaminess to it compared to a "D" color diamond (mostly noticeable when side-by-side against a white background). Big deal, so what?

And your last question literally cracked me up. Are you serious?

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:40:15 PM
Author: FluorIsMore

Apples to apples, wouldn't a D AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct be more rare than a J AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct?

Certainly. But we weren't talking about "apples-to-apples". You were talking about the "average person" and a D color diamond for D color sake only.

 

[FluorIsMore]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:54:55 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 10/20/2006 7:40:15 PM

Author: FluorIsMore


Apples to apples, wouldn''t a D AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct be more rare than a J AGS0, H&A/ACA/HOF, over 2ct?

We weren''t talking about apples-to-apples. You were talking about the ''average person'' and a D diamond for D-color sake only.

Yes, but we need some parameters for the D. Sure the J would be more rare than say a 1ct D, but a 2.0ct D would be more rare than a J HOF 2.0

 

[FluorIsMore]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:53:14 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 10/20/2006 7:33:10 PM

Author: FluorIsMore

I'd like to hear why you didn't go lower in the spectrum down to a L or M. After all, some of you state that you think that color is better than none, then why go with a J and not go lower with even more savings?


When you see a 3ct L or M, but well cut, what's your impression? What would you first reactions be of the diamond and of the person?

Are you TRYING to be argumentative?

I'm skeptical and not convinced so I'm asking to see if the arguments are convincing. I'm also seeing if there's a double standard here. And if there is one(e.g. you saying you'd rather have something with color, but poopooing L's), then the discrepancy states the obvious.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:57:33 PM
Author: FluorIsMore


Yes, but we need some parameters for the D. Sure the J would be more rare than say a 1ct D, but a 2.0ct D would be more rare than a J HOF 2.0

What do we need "parameters" for??! This thread is about opinions on diamond COLOR. You took it off the beaten track and frankly, I am really getting bored with it.

 

[FluorIsMore]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:01:24 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 10/20/2006 7:57:33 PM

Author: FluorIsMore



Yes, but we need some parameters for the D. Sure the J would be more rare than say a 1ct D, but a 2.0ct D would be more rare than a J HOF 2.0

What do we need 'parameters' for??! This thread is about opinions on diamond COLOR. You took it off the beaten track and frankly, I am really getting bored with it.

Yeah, I'm also getting tired of the meaningless comparisons between a J HOF 2.0 and all D's in existence. There's just no logic in it.

 

[firebirdgold]

Mmmm, pie. I much prefer key lime pie myself.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:59:23 PM
Author: FluorIsMore


I''m skeptical and not convinced so I''m asking to see if the arguments are convincing.

Maybe seeing my diamond IRL would "convince" you but since that''s impossible, here''s a photo.

Yeah, it''s a real hardship wearing this diamond, let me tell you... and gosh, I wonder what people think of me when they see it...

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:06:13 PM
Author: IndieJones
Mmmm, pie. I much prefer key lime pie myself.

LOL!

Me, too. I'm leaving now to go whip some right up!
Buh bye!

 

[belle]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:06:13 PM
Author: IndieJones
Mmmm, pie. I much prefer key lime pie myself.

don''t you know what the perceptions are of key lime pie!!??
lemon pie is the best and if you could, you would choose it every time.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:17:23 PM
Author: FluorIsMore

Date: 10/20/2006 6:50:14 PM

Author: FacetFire

This may sound weird, but I actually didn''t want a D colored diamond also because I think they look fake sometimes. On some people''s skintones, they look way too white and frankly can look like a CZ.

That seems to be a common put down of colorless by people who have colored diamonds. An ideal cut D will not look anything like a CZ.

Actually, an ideal cut D will look almost *exactly* like a well-cut CZ. I bought my mom an ideal cut, H&A, 1.24ct D VVS2 diamond a few years ago, and it looked exactly like my 1.5ct Interlap cz, only smaller.

I have lots of pictures in different lighting, but we''re not allowed to post them here.

I LOVE and own colorless diamonds, but I gotta admit... they do look just like CZs. So it''s not just an opinion of people who own non-colorless diamonds.

 

[Julian]

I''ve seen well cut Js and would have thought they were Gs or Hs. And that''s only if I''m thinking about color. And I usually am too busy admiring the sparkle to think about color! The warmer diamonds have their own loveliness.

I see the preference kind of like how I chose my wedding gown. I went for the ivory over diamond white. Ivory looked better against my skin than the dazzling white did. If you asked anyone what color my gown was, they''d say white. But put next to a dazzling white, then it would look creamier. And again, you see the style and the fabric more than the color! Like diamonds, right?

I love warmer colored diamonds. I have a G in a pendant and it looks almost as white as my E side by side. Separately, the G looks white white white. I have to be honest, though... Sometimes, I have to say that the E in certain lighting DOES look like a super sparkly CZ. But that''s not a bad thing -- CZ''s are crazy sparkly and sometimes seen as "too perfect to be a diamond." That''s why the higher end CZs now come in warmer colors now to be more realistic!

Js are very white, in my opinion. I doubt anyone would see a well-cut J and think it looks warm. They''d just think, "LOVELY!"

 

[davidwolf]

Wow, amazing how my comments have set some of you off.

What I love about PS is the fact that everyone here thinks that they are a gemologist. Another thing, HCA seems to be a bunch of hot air too. I think Rhino himself did comparison of stones that were great but turned up shit on HCA.

Fact is fact. A G/H colored diamond is more desirable then a J colored diamond, nobody walks into a store and says lets see your diamonds with "yellow" tints.

Why do you think a 1.25 G/VS1 cost the same as a 1.5 J/VS1 ? If demand wasnt the same then a G colored 1.5x diamond wouldnt be 4-5k more then a J. Don't believe me do a search on WF!

I would love to see Rockdoc chime in on this thread, it would probably give him a good laugh

Too bad J's are 11k and G and highers are 16k+

 

[angeline]

Date: 10/20/2006 8:42:09 PM
Author: Julian
I''ve seen well cut Js and would have thought they were Gs or Hs. And that''s only if I''m thinking about color. And I usually am too busy admiring the sparkle to think about color! The warmer diamonds have their own loveliness.


I see the preference kind of like how I chose my wedding gown. I went for the ivory over diamond white. Ivory looked better against my skin than the dazzling white did. If you asked anyone what color my gown was, they''d say white. But put next to a dazzling white, then it would look creamier. And again, you see the style and the fabric more than the color! Like diamonds, right?


I love warmer colored diamonds. I have a G in a pendant and it looks almost as white as my E side by side. Separately, the G looks white white white. I have to be honest, though... Sometimes, I have to say that the E in certain lighting DOES look like a super sparkly CZ. But that''s not a bad thing -- CZ''s are crazy sparkly and sometimes seen as ''too perfect to be a diamond.'' That''s why the higher end CZs now come in warmer colors now to be more realistic!


Js are very white, in my opinion. I doubt anyone would see a well-cut J and think it looks warm. They''d just think, ''LOVELY!''

Julian, I love your analogy! I think it''s spot on and a really good way to illustrate what people are trying to say. I don''t have anything else to add except - pass the pie!

a

 

[Carlotta]

Date: 10/20/2006 10:21:56 PM
Author: davidwolf
Wow, amazing how my comments have set some of you off.

What I love about PS is the fact that everyone here thinks that they are a gemologist. Another thing, HCA seems to be a bunch of hot air too. I think Rhino himself did comparison of stones that were great but turned up shit on HCA.

Fact is fact. A G/H colored diamond is more desirable then a J colored diamond, nobody walks into a store and says lets see your diamonds with ''yellow'' tints.

Why do you think a 1.25 G/VS1 cost the same as a 1.5 J/VS1 ? If demand wasnt the same then a G colored 1.5x diamond wouldnt be 4-5k more then a J. Don''t believe me do a search on WF!

I would love to see Rockdoc chime in on this thread, it would probably give him a good laugh

Too bad J''s are 11k and G and highers are 16k+

Wow, DW.....
Your other threads/posts suggest that you are a satisfied PS shopper....but this thread is different...what''s up??

 

[bae7]

Wow, lots going on here. But a few things caught my eye. I think this is important when it comes to your friend buying a J or K - no one, in my 20 years of wearing a diamond has ever asked me the color. Ever... They have asked, numerous times, the size and I''ve actually been asked, more than once, why does it sparkle so much? I had no clue what my 1ct color was. When I took it to a B&M to be traded in, he thought it was an I. I was SHOCKED, as I was sure it was higher than that. Well, I searched for the original report (GIA) and it was actually...a J! I now know what you guys are talking about when you say, "Faces up white." When I was at the B&M comparing a 1.5 D to a 1.75 H, I could NOT see a difference. And I studied them for quite a while. Of course, I chose the 1.75 - I thought, "Why should I pay for a D if I can''t see the difference?" Good luck to your friend!!

 

[davidwolf]

If you look at my other posts I am even considering an I or J. So that tells you how much I know

And yes I am a very satisfied PS shopper.

 

[etienneperret]

Hi Angel,
You must remember that the letter color grade that a gem lab gives a diamond does not indicate what color the diamond is. It is a measure of how far from colorless the diamond is. In other words a k color diamond diamond can be slightly yellow, or slightly brown, or slightly grey, or even slightly blue. A k color diamond has just a little more color saturation than a J and a little less than an L. You will actually need to turn the diamonds over and in the proper lighting place them side by side to see the difference in color. The difference between a J color diamond and a K color is very slight.

 

[FacetFire]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:17:23 PM
Author: FluorIsMore

Date: 10/20/2006 6:50:14 PM
Author: FacetFire
This may sound weird, but I actually didn't want a D colored diamond also because I think they look fake sometimes. On some people's skintones, they look way too white and frankly can look like a CZ.

That seems to be a common put down of colorless by people who have colored diamonds. An ideal cut D will not look anything like a CZ.

Actually, I own a 1.5 carat D colorless RB that was owned by my mother, and I wouldn't buy another one.

FI could have easily afforded a good sized D-E-F colored stone, but for my preferences, that wasn't what I wanted.

How hard is it to understand that some people actually like lower colored stones? I don't tell the people that prefer D-E-F stones that they are wrong and would actually go for a bigger stone if they could have afforded it. So why can't I prefer an I to a D? It looks prettier to me. I see more fire coming out of lower colored stones...I am a fire person. Some people prefer white brilliance out of a stone over fire. I don't tell them they are wrong. It's what makes us different people, it's why I enjoy walking down the street and seeing what everyone else has chosen in a ring.

Here's the ultimate truth for some of us lower colored diamond people -- I would not trade my 2.3 carat I OEC for a 2.3 carat D OEC or RB anyday. It's for wearing, not for reselling, so I choose my "I."

And, my jewelery store had a stunning P colored ideal cut 3.5 carat RB not long ago. I thought it was beautiful! It sparkled like nothing else and had so much fire! And you know what? Someone bought it. And they weren't trying to pass it off as a white diamond...they liked it for what it was.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:33:10 PM
Author: FluorIsMore
I''d like to hear why you didn''t go lower in the spectrum down to a L or M. After all, some of you state that you think that color is better than none, then why go with a J and not go lower with even more savings?

When you see a 3ct L or M, but well cut, what''s your impression? What would you first reactions be of the diamond and of the person''s choice of diamonds?

I would have gone warmer but it just didn''t happen that way - the stone meant for me happened to be a J.

Also, below a J and sometimes to a K, is harder to find sometimes.

When I see a 3 ct L or M - if it is well cut and clear - I think WOW what a gorgeous stone!!!

To me the colorless thing is passe thinking... if the stone is clear and cut well - the color is just the bonus variety package!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/20/2006 7:59:23 PM
Author: FluorIsMore


I''m skeptical and not convinced so I''m asking to see if the arguments are convincing. I''m also seeing if there''s a double standard here. And if there is one(e.g. you saying you''d rather have something with color, but poopooing L''s), then the discrepancy states the obvious.

If you are skeptical, then don''t get a warmer stone. Plenty of people here do not want to see color and get DEF stones. Plenty of others don''t want to see color and think GH stones are adequate. And plenty of others think seeing color is irrelevant and get IJ stones. And some of them even embrace the color and consider it an enhancement - like me. I am certain I would not be as happy with my stone were it a D. It would be pretty I''m sure, but it would lose the richness it has now... the antique color quality that is a lot of its charm. My stone is an antique cut and does not hide it''s color in brilliant AGS0 faceting and I LOVE that it doesn''t!

 

[AdaBeta27]

“I'd like to hear why you didn't go lower in the spectrum down to a L or M… When you see a 3ct L or M, but well cut, what's your impression?”
It might be gorgeous, but it’s still freakin’ yellow, LOL! L and M are much different from I/J. Noticeably off-white, very obviously in large diamonds. 60-watt bulb vs. 75-watt in light return compared to colorless. There is no L or M that “faces white” above what, .25ct? Fluorescence can also give some truly bizarre color-change effects in the lower color grades. Optimal cuts of L & M are candlelight white. Lower cuts can be significantly yellow at worst. The ranges for each color grade get broader as you go down the scale. So, L encompasses a wider yellow range and M a still wider range. That’s a lot of territory. They can also be tinted slightly green or brown, which can be minimized or disastrously accentuated by choice of metal to set in. My M is a very pretty diamond, but it is definitely a stone for YG band & white head. When placed in all-white, it looks slightly green, not moissanite-bad, but tint is there. In yellow, it turns a delightful creamy, buttery candlelight white and it’s gorgeous. If you are trying to find an off-the-shelf semi mount, side stones will be I/J or whiter, even D/E. Use one of those and you will see white diamonds with a cape-colored center, a look frequently seen in antiques but almost nobody likes it today. I like my M diamond for a personal ring, but there not much way I'd be very thrilled with one as e-ring. I won't say no way, because I am one who prefers the antique, the "mutt-cuts," and the unusual so long as it is beautiful. I never want one of those conventional ideals that show black arrows. (getting into my asbestos suit now...)

“.. an ideal cut D will look almost *exactly* like a well-cut CZ…”
CZ throws predominantly pastel fire, and diamond is full spectrum. I think Wink’s Chinese white has become so popular because 1) it’s cut to be more fiery than the older style of colorless, i.e. has that type of crown, so stone does something besides look hazy when dirty, and 2) the body tint “darkens” that fire and makes it look less pastel and more diamond-like. I like the Chinese white. Nice improvement. This is based on CW RBs that I purchased.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/21/2006 8:46:35 AM
Author: etienneperret
Hi Angel,
You must remember that the letter color grade that a gem lab gives a diamond does not indicate what color the diamond is. It is a measure of how far from colorless the diamond is. In other words a k color diamond diamond can be slightly yellow, or slightly brown, or slightly grey, or even slightly blue. A k color diamond has just a little more color saturation than a J and a little less than an L. You will actually need to turn the diamonds over and in the proper lighting place them side by side to see the difference in color. The difference between a J color diamond and a K color is very slight.

yes!!! And I think that is one of the reasons I love my J so much - it is''nt a lemony yellow or a greenish yellow, it is a brownish yellow which at that *light* of a shade looks like pure ivory and I just *love* it!!!

 

[Jelly]

Whew, I would LOVE to see more ideal cut lower stones! Bring on the big L, M, N, XYZ stones that are ideal cut!

Lemon Pie, yum yum yum!

I would take Lynn''s set over your average Tiffany''s ring in a heartbeat! So gorgeous!!