shape
carat
color
clarity

Is this a paraiba?

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by simplysplendid, Jan 6, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
  1. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Jan 6, 2009
    http://www.atggems.com/Paraiba.htm ?

    The AGTA certificate on the website says so. I had always thought that they are supposed to be neony and pricier? The reason I am asking is because I saw similar tourmalines at my jeweler''s (but much better clarity and cut) and according to my jeweler, the cutter that consigned the tourmalines to her says they are from Paraiba in Brazil.

    My jeweler also showed me an oval (approx 6 ct and according to her cutter, also from Paraiba in Brazil) that is much nicer in terms of colour than the one shown in the atg website and the colour looks like the green tourmalines set in a tiffany necklace that was on one of the blue books (I can''t seem to find a picture of it). How much should I expect to pay for a 6ct green tourmaline?
     
    


    


  2. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Jan 6, 2009
    The colour is very similar to the cushion green tourmaline posted by MissRocks, except that the oval has a more intense colour and a hint more blue.
     
  3. movie zombie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    11,879
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
  4. oldmancoyote
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    755
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    by oldmancoyote » Jan 6, 2009
    Exactly... this is a nice tourmaline - probably cupriferous and from Paraíb, but not a screamer, and it''s already priced 3x what a non-Paraíba tourmaline would get. If it were the neon-blue for which paraiba tourmaline are famous, it would be way more, at over 5ct.
     
    


    


  5. Lady_Disdain
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    3,988
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    by Lady_Disdain » Jan 6, 2009
    First of all, not all tourmaline from Paraiba is Paraiba (aka cuprian) Tourmaline and not all Paraiba (aka cuprian) tourmaline is from Brazil.

    Not all cuprians are fantastic cuprians, just like not all sapphires are fantastic. They can be, though...
     
  6. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Jan 6, 2009
    Is it Paraiba in the sense it's a glowing neon stone reminiscent of the fine Paraiba tourmalines first discovered in Brazil - no.

    Is it Paraiba in the sense that it has copper in it and it's a bluish green tourmaline and has a lab report stating so - yes.

    If this stone has a monetary premium on it because it's paraiba, I wouldn't buy it. If it doesn't, and you like the stone, get it for what it's worth as far as that color is concerned.

    With tourmaline, just becasuse a stone has copper in it doesn't mean it's a fantastic neon color. Likewise, I've seen fantastic neon tourmalines that have no copper in them whatsoever.

    Look at the top of page 30 in the colored gemstones/rings eyecandy sticky thread. That stone has no copper, but I would take it over 99% of the copper bearing tourmalines on the market today.


    ETA: I see it was sold. I think it was overpriced to the tilt, unless my monitor is not giving me a reasonably accurate color.
     
  7. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Jan 7, 2009
    Thanks everyone, now I know more about paraibas. I had always thought that all paraibas are neony and pricey.
    Anyway, my jeweler has quoted me approx USD3500 for the whole stone (more than 6ct) for a blue green tourmaline from Paraiba, no inclusion. Not neony but a little glowy. Is this too much? I will try to find a picture of the tiffany pictures, the tourmaline looks just like those on the tiffany blue book.
     
  8. m76steve
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    605
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    by m76steve » Jan 7, 2009
    i have been following the paraiba debate for several years-if the origin of the stone is not paraiba, brazil-it is not to be considered paraiba tourmaline. it is a paraiba-like tourmaline, or african/mozambique tourmaline. i have been told this by many apprs. when i was buying my stones. the company or person you buy from should be able to furnish you with a certificate or origin or a paper by a gem company that will stand by their sale to you. their are some gem dealers who are heating the african stuff with pretty good results but they are stating that you are buying mozambique cuprian tourmaline. i was told that the brazillian tourmaline was said to have a certain amount of gold within the stone along with copper-thus getting the windex-blue or neon blue/green color associated with the early brazillian stones. a type 3 stone some inclusions are acceptable and usually dont detract from the value-real paraiba is anywhere from 15-65 thousand per/ct. the african is about half that or less depending on the stone-hopes this helps a little...
     
  9. m76steve
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    605
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    by m76steve » Jan 7, 2009
    authentic paraiba tourmaline-is nicer in person...

    forms sleeper 329.jpg
     
  10. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Jan 7, 2009
    Thanks Steve, and that is a gorgeous looking pendant...
     
    


    


  11. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Jan 7, 2009
    If you want to see very pricey paraibas, check out the videos on paraibainternational or palagems and cherrypicked.com. I think Pala has nicer merchandise IMHO. Unfortunately, I think since the television shopping channels have given so much hype to any tourmaline with copper, many people think any copper bearing tourmaline would cost thousands per carat, and that is simply not true.

    Just like with any species of gemstone, you can find copper bearing tourmalines in any price range, and even Brazilian paraibas in any price range. There are some ugly copper bearing Brazilian paraibas, but people think they can charge a fortune because they''re Brazilian and copper bearing and blue.

    For me, it''s all about the color, and I don''t care if the stone came from Brazil, Mozambique.
     
  12. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Jan 8, 2009

    Ask yourself the following questions whenever buying a blue/green tourmaline that costs a substantial amount per carat, and $583/ct is a lot for your average blue/green tourmaline per carat.

    Does it have a substantial grey mask?

    Can it easily be confused with the following gems? blue zircon, boring blue/green aquamarine (although there are some fine aquas on the market that look like tourmalines, but they''re pricey), blue topaz.

    Does it go murky or extinct in certain lighting?

    If you answered yes to any of the above questions, I would not get it, or at least not for that price.
     
  13. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Jan 9, 2009
    Thanks Tourmaline_Lover, those are good guidelines. I am still looking for a picture of the green tourmalines on the tiffany blue book. I have the book but not a soft copy. A picture speaks a thousand words.. running off to look for it now.
     
  14. simplysplendid
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    by simplysplendid » Feb 27, 2009
    Hi tourmaline_lover, I still haven''t found a picture of the blue book with the blue-green tourmaline on it. My jeweler did not say it is a copper bearing tourmaline but confirmed with the cutter that it is a green tourmaline from Paraiba. I couldn''t take my mind off that blue-green tourmaline from my jeweler so I had to have it. I am having it set in platinum halo with a split shank and should be getting it either next or the following week.
     
  15. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    36,972
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    by chrono » Feb 27, 2009
    This is what I''ll call a cuprite but not a paraiba. As you can see, the AGTA cert was done in 2005 before the term "paraiba" was fully defined by the trade. At that time, any tourmaline containing copper could be called a paraiba even though it isn''t neon. Since then, only stones that glow can be called a paraiba and even that is under debate - many only consider it a paraiba only if it comes from the original Brazilian mine AND glows.
     
    


    


  16. yingh
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,419
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    by yingh » Feb 27, 2009
    I know nothing about Paraiba - but nobody seem to question the claimed cost of the AGTA cert that cost over $500. I have personally sent my alexandrite to AGTA and it costed about $160 - $170.
     
  17. DiamanteBlu
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,500
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    by DiamanteBlu » Feb 27, 2009
    Here is a pic of an amazing paraiba that I saw at Kaufmann de Suisse in NYC. It was much more neony [is that a word] in real life. I don''t remember the specs. I want to say that the weight was in the mid teens and the price was well north of $50k but still in 5 figures.

    KdS1 paraiba.jpg
     
  18. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    36,972
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    by chrono » Feb 27, 2009
    DB, is that an original Brazilian paraiba?
     
  19. DiamanteBlu
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,500
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    by DiamanteBlu » Feb 27, 2009
    Yes.

    It was funny but I had never seen/heard of a paraiba tourmaline before we wandered by that window. It drew us in [especially DH!]. The price blew me away! LOL! I thought all tourmalines were about the same! What did I know!

    I got the full tutorial on the Brazil mines, etc. [along with the hauling out of certs, etc.]. They had another slightly smaller paraiba but it was nowhere near as spectacular colorwise as this one.

    Wonder if they still have it . . . I should call . . . sigh . . .
     
  20. Catmom
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    9,444
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    by Catmom » Feb 27, 2009
    Widget has the most gorgeous paraiba ring ever! I really hope she doen''t mind if I post it.

    WidgetsTourm0222.jpg
     
  21. yingh
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,419
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    by yingh » Feb 27, 2009
    OMG that color - where are my sun glasses?[​IMG]

     
  22. Kaleigh
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,570
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    by Kaleigh » Feb 27, 2009
    WOW!! I had no idea she had one, good for her!!! That''s TDF, for sure..[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  23. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Feb 27, 2009
    Now THAT''s a PARAIBA!!! [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  24. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Feb 27, 2009
    There''s some other pictures of it floating around PS. It was originally a purple stone and Gene of Precisiongem faceted it, and heated it, and it turned windex blue. Most paraiba start out a different color and need to be heated to bring out the neon blue/green. It is sitting in a Leon setting.
     
  25. LD
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    9,616
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    by LD » Feb 27, 2009
    Ditto. I''d just add glow to that as well!

    There''s a lot of snobbery about the Brazil/Mozambique argument and chemical testing has been unable to find major differences between the two - so I don''t care about location IF the gemstone fits what I''m looking for.
     
  26. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    22,539
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Feb 28, 2009
    True,
    Widget's paraiba is from Mozambique and it's gorgeous, and there are some nice Nigerian goods as well.

    Supposedly, the top Brazilian ones are the most neon though. The one that DB posted above is textbook Brazilian top notch material. You don't see that everyday, and it's very rare. What is super rare is if you can fnd them unheated.
     
  27. Harriet
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    12,823
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    by Harriet » Feb 28, 2009
    DB,
    I've looked at Kaufman's Paraibas. Believe it or not, there's even better Brazilian material out there.
     
  28. DiamanteBlu
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,500
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    by DiamanteBlu » Feb 28, 2009
    Wow, where should I be looking? The only great one I''ve seen was the one at KdS.
     
  29. Harriet
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    12,823
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    by Harriet » Feb 28, 2009
    Ugh. When will you be in NY next? I can''t tell you in public (my dealer will kill me).
     
  30. DiamanteBlu
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,500
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    by DiamanteBlu » Feb 28, 2009
    I don''t know. I have no immediate plans. Perhaps I need to make arrangements! [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

Share This Page