Is there a Radiant Cut Advisor?

[RADIANTMAN]

Hi Smh

My point was that not all SI1''s are created equal. There is such a thing as an SI1 that could just as easily have gotten an SI2, so the premium over an SI2 is based on the fact that it has a better certificate, not the fact that it''s a better diamond. For the price, it could still be a good value, but you would want to take this into account whaen you make your decision.

Hopefully, your vendor will be able to describe the diamond for you in enough detail for you to make an informed decision. Since you will not be able to see the diamond for yourself, you are relying on your vendor''s eyes and expertise, so don''t be afraid to ask all the necessary questions.

 

[KTM300]

Thanks again. No Sarin data for the above lised GIA report. Of the 2 last stones I have mentioned by looking at the GIA reports and the sarin data for the first GIA report, would you have the vendor bring in one over the other, or is it just a toss up at this point.

Thanks,
SMH

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everyone,
I do appreciate the right to post here- and I make every effort to stick to the policies.


I apoligize if it appeared I was attempting to instill fear in SMH- that was not my intention. If anyone is a supporter of online diamond buying, it''s me.


Again- best wishes to ALL

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Date: 11/28/2005 2:55:56 PM
Author: smh
Thanks again. No Sarin data for the above lised GIA report. Of the 2 last stones I have mentioned by looking at the GIA reports and the sarin data for the first GIA report, would you have the vendor bring in one over the other, or is it just a toss up at this point.

Thanks,
SMH

Toss up. Both certs read well. They both could be great, or they both could be dogs. You''ve gone about as far as you can in weeding out without seeing the diamonds.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

I agree with Stan SMH- but whatever you do don''t be afraid

 

[coda72]

smh, I would have the vendor bring in the first diamond, the one you already have the Sarin data for and check it out. They should be able to tell you if it''s eyeclean, and most importantly if it''s a beautiful diamond. If in their opinion, it''s a nice diamond, you should check it out yourself and take it to an appraiser.

 

[KTM300]

Thanks coda72, where can I fid an appraiser in my area? Can it be appraised once it is set?

Thanks,
smh

 

[coda72]

smh, at the top of the page under resources there are some appraisers listed. Check to see if there''s one in your area. If not, you have the option of sending the stone directly from the vendor to the appraiser. The appraiser will then let you know what he/she thinks of the stone. The stone will then be shipped back to the vendor to be set or shipped to you.

If there''s an appraiser in your area, you can have either the loose diamond appraised or the ring appraised once it''s complete. Just keep in mind that once the diamond is set, the appraiser is limited in how he/she can judge the stone. He/she won''t be able to run a Sarin or get exact measurements on the stone. Color and clarity may be harder to judge. But he/she can verify that the stone is the same one that is shown on the GIA report. And he/she will be able to tell you if it''s a good looking stone, and give you an estimate of how much it is worth.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Wow- that sounds pretty complicated.
So, if you send it to an apprasier, then you''ll have thier opinion. How do you know which appraiser''s opinion to trust?
Wouldn''t it be best to deal with a vendor who''s opinion you trust?


Remember, YOUR opinion counts most here. If you trust a vendor, and they send you a diamond- once you have seen it, and made up your mind you love it, a third party can re-enforce what your eyes tell you.

If you get it, and don''t love it, what difference does it make what ANY appraiser says- or what the sarin numbers are?

 

[MissAva]

David, why would any appraiser risk his life''s worth over a diamond in which he has no stake?
The apprasiers are there to let you know you can trust your vendor, and to make sure you are getting what you were/are being sold.
Appraiser Information and why you would use one can be found here.

 

[oldminer]

The honesty and degree of knowledge of the information provider is always something of utmost importance. Any individual could be the right one or the wrong one to trust. The only way to even begin to judge an information provider is by looking at that provider''s previoustrack record.

There are diamond vendors here who can be trusted and also appraisers who can be trusted. Consumers are very fortunate to be able to pick from such a good sized group of reasonably recognized providers. So many consumers are not served well outside this little Internet family of the well-informed, that most people are rightly quite suspicious.

It is great to have choices when it comes to taking advice.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Great point Dave-
Let me be clear- I did not mean to impune any appraisers honesty or integrity.

Matatora- I assume that the busiest appraisers'' work is NOT looking at potential purchases for clients- rather evaluating items consumers already own.
Of course we have some very reknowned appraisers here who will let me know if my assumption is incorrect. Clearly these guys perorm a vital fuction- and surely most are honest. Say the apprasier honestly likes it, and the buyer does not- what then?

So- it''s not that the appraiser would do something dishonest - rather, the question is: who''s opinion counts?

On a new purchase, I feel that the seller needs to be very clear on the ups and downs of the diamond.
If there''s ANY doubt about the seller do not proceed. This is common sense- and buyers need to trust their own instincts first.

Say you''re comfortable with the seller, but want to verify the purchase. It would seem most practical for the buyer to accept delivery of the diamond. If the buyer likes the way the diamond looks, they can take it to a local guy ( or gal) to verify the purchase.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/29/2005 2:03:08 PM
Author: Matatora

...why would any appraiser risk his life's worth over a diamond in which he has no stake?

The apprasiers are there to let you know you can trust your vendor...

I wonder how often appraisers are asked for their vote prior to a sale instead of asked to fill in formal paper for insurance.

It is always hard to say something bad about anyhting - even if warranted. And in this case, 'better' is also a matter of taste and/or more money. Perhaps appraisers have no stake in the any one sale, but I would think that only downright scam deals get blasted if even. Once purchases get into those shops it must be the case that the buyer already approved of the offer and likes it and his taste/opinion counts more after all.

The whole thing does not sound cookie-cutter easy to me at all.

There is a thread burried in this forum asking if and when appraisers give negative feedback. It was rather interesting to read.



Perhaps this sounds bad, but it was not meant to and should not. I wouldn't be able to keep shop either by selling my personal opinion on things - I'd be out in a week after spreading negative feedback on things just because I think so.

 

[KTM300]

OK, here we go!!! The stone does not appear to have the crused ice look. I don''t know if that is good or bad? The vendor says there are no visible inclusions (eye-clean). Here are the Ideal and Magnified images

IdealScope

 

[KTM300]

Magnified view

 

[MissAva]

I think it is pretty, do you like it?

 

[pricescope]

Ideal-Scope image looks very decent (see http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_fancy.asp)

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/29/2005 4:00:22 PM
Author: smh

OK, here we go!!! The stone does not appear to have the crused ice look. I don''t know if that is good or bad?

Most likely neither - a range of cut variations get the ''radiant'' label. The design is very flexible in a way - there are allot of parameters to change and extreme modifications get unusual looks. From the pictures one can guess this is a bright stone and make out some detail of the pavilion facets that seem to indicate a variation of the textbook radiant recipe. Does it matter? Only if you do not like it.

You may call it radiant or not - GIA probably called this ''cut corner modified brilliant'' just like the radiants are called - and the generic name fits.

My 0.2.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Date: 11/29/2005 4:00:22 PM
Author: smh

OK, here we go!!! The stone does not appear to have the crused ice look. I don''t know if that is good or bad? The vendor says there are no visible inclusions (eye-clean). Here are the Ideal and Magnified images

IdealScope

How "crushed ice" you like your radiant is a matter of taste. Some people love it, and some people prefer to see the faceting more distinctly - you have to decide what you (or, more importantly, your fiance to be) likes best. The "experts" can help you weed out bad stones, but in matters of taste, no one''s opinion matters except yours.

Idealscopes images don''t mean much to me, but from the photo, it looks like the diamond has a bit of a black circle around the culet, probably the result of pavilion facets that are 1 or 2 degrees too high. Ask the vendor how pronounced the effect is. If it is mild, then it''s not a problem, but if it''s severe enough to be obvious, then you may not like it.

 

[KTM300]

I understand, it''s kind of a personal thing. However, I am not sure I have an opinion one way or another. I can ask this question, which is more desireable. I am sure "she" will love either or not ever know, but I don''t want to hear 6 months from now, "how come mine does not look like that." I don''t mean that in a bad way, but it could happen. Heck, I am a BMW nut, and it took me 1.5 years to find the perfect "used" bmw, and I have not seen one yet I''d rather have in it''s same class. So in order to make the right decision, I need to know a few more things. Does this stone appear to be a 1b stone as the numbers say, and is the non crushed ice look something we would like? The price seems fair, so I think I am OK on that front.

Thanks,
smh

 

[belle]

Date: 11/29/2005 6:51:40 PM
Author: RADIANTMAN

Date: 11/29/2005 4:00:22 PM
Author: smh

OK, here we go!!! The stone does not appear to have the crused ice look. I don''t know if that is good or bad? The vendor says there are no visible inclusions (eye-clean). Here are the Ideal and Magnified images

IdealScope

How ''crushed ice'' you like your radiant is a matter of taste. Some people love it, and some people prefer to see the faceting more distinctly - you have to decide what you (or, more importantly, your fiance to be) likes best. The ''experts'' can help you weed out bad stones, but in matters of taste, no one''s opinion matters except yours.

Idealscopes images don''t mean much to me, but from the photo, it looks like the diamond has a bit of a black circle around the culet, probably the result of pavilion facets that are 1 or 2 degrees too high. Ask the vendor how pronounced the effect is. If it is mild, then it''s not a problem, but if it''s severe enough to be obvious, then you may not like it.

stan,
you say that idealscope images don''t mean much to you, yet you are using it to make assumptions about the stone and even going so far as to say that the pavilion facet are 1or2 degrees too high!?

wow...seems like that little contraption can indeed tell quite a bit about diamonds!

smh,
this stone does not have the ''crushed ice'' look of most radiants. will you like it? who knows. why don''t you have it shipped and take a look for yourself? that would satisfy many questions.
best of luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Well smh, it seems you have a winner on your hands. That is a pretty good looking ideal-scope image. The larger amount of black in the realistic photo indicates the darkness you might see with very close observation because your head blocks available lights - check out the video on Head Obstruction in the link just above this thread.

Stan I guess you are refferring to the larger black bits just inside the table? If they were not there then it would indicate to me the stone was too shallow in the pavilion.

I am not a radiant fan or expert - but it looks mid way between crushed ice and clean facets.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Belle - my observations were based on the photo and the Sarin data - not the idealscope image. You know from my previous posts that I believe that the value of the idealscope for radiants is limited. Radiants reflect light quite differently than rounds, and as he has acknowledged in previous posts, Garry has not done the necessary research with respect to radiants to really be able to interpret the data in a meaningful way.

SMH - I can't tell without seeing the stone whether the black which is visible in the magnified photo is a problem. That is why you need to ask the vendor and hopefully they will describe it accurately. Whatever name one uses to describe it, a strong black circle around the culet of any diamond is not a positive attribute. A well cut radiant will have minimal black reflections, and will not have a concentration of black around the culet. An absence of black is definitely not a sign that the stone is too flat, in fact "crushed ice" radiants have virtually no black reflections at all.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that there's any problem with that diamond - only that you should ask the question. The opinions of people who have not seen the actual diamond, including my own, should be taken for what they are worth - which is not much. You are relying on the eyes of your vendor, not the eyes of the pricescope community, since only the vendor has seen the diamond. If the vendor is trustworthy and understands radiants, then their opinion is worth far more than guesses based on blurry photos and idealscope images.

Don't get too hung up on the "crushed ice" concept. As Garry points out, there's something in between true "crushed ice" and distinct faceting, and to many of us (myself included), those in between stones are the way to go.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/29/2005 8:20:27 PM
Author: smh

... I am not sure I have an opinion one way or another. I can ask this question, which is more desireable.

.. I don't want to hear 6 months from now, 'how come mine does not look like that.

Well,I don't think one is more desirable than the other in general, but if in 6months from now you/she will compare this stone with the textbook picturelabeled 'radiant cut diamond' chances are you guys will conclude based on firsthand evidence that the the two don't quite match.

If you expect a 'radiant' to look like this:

than tough luck - you've got a nice fancy shape diamond that is something slightly else.

... which doesn't make it less nice.


Now, behind that logo there is diversity too (link to lit of original rad pictures), just not diverse enough to contain an example of the color, clarity and weight you are looking for, unfortunately.

 

[coda72]

Date: 11/29/2005 8:20:27 PM
Author: smh
I understand, it''s kind of a personal thing. However, I am not sure I have an opinion one way or another. I can ask this question, which is more desireable. I am sure ''she'' will love either or not ever know, but I don''t want to hear 6 months from now, ''how come mine does not look like that.'' I don''t mean that in a bad way, but it could happen. Heck, I am a BMW nut, and it took me 1.5 years to find the perfect ''used'' bmw, and I have not seen one yet I''d rather have in it''s same class. So in order to make the right decision, I need to know a few more things. Does this stone appear to be a 1b stone as the numbers say, and is the non crushed ice look something we would like? The price seems fair, so I think I am OK on that front.

Thanks,
smh

smh,

Every single radiant I''ve seen looks completely different from each other, and that includes generics and Original Radiant Cuts. Radiants, maybe more than any other fancy shape, are all very different from each other. And to be honest with you, I haven''t seen one other person with a radiant in real life; all the radiants I''ve seen have been in the jewelry store. So, it''s unlikely that your fiancee will be comparing her stone with other people that have radiants.

And one other thing, since this picture is highly magnified, I can''t really tell if it has the crushed ice look. Maybe when you''re looking at it at normally, you won''t notice so much if it is or isn''t crushed ice. In fact this picture may be deceiving, and it will look like crushed ice at normal magnification. The only way to tell is to order it and see it for yourself. If you don''t like it, you can always return it.

I hope I don''t sound like I''m trying to talk you into this stone because I''m not. If you don''t think it''s the one, you should move on. I will tell you that nice looking radiants are hard to find, and you may be searching for a while to find the perfect one. If you don''t have a limited time frame, you may want to look around a while. Ask James Allen to bring in any radiants that have the characteristics you''re looking for. If you want a 1A, don''t settle for a 1B. I bought a 1A, and I wouldn''t have it any other way. I get compliments on it all the time. But it''s all up to you at this point.

 

[KTM300]

Thanks for all of the input. I think for the price this is a very good stone. when I look closely at a Radiant, I like the crushed ice look, but I think I like the sparkle from a distance more. This stone may provide more sparkle. To me the sparkle is the most imporant part. I purchased a set of diamond earrings a few years ago(I knew nothing at the time) they sparkle, but not like crazy. I really want a stone that catches peoples eye from a distance.

I''ll be in touch with the vendor today, to see if I can get any more feedback. I was initially worried about seeing an inclusion, but now I am a little more hung up on the oranization of the facets.

What do you think of this setting? Is it a Radiant in the center? I have no clue who makes it. I found it in a flyer from a local jewler in the mail.

Thanks,
smh

 

[widget]

Author: smh
What do you think of this setting?

I think it''s GORGEOUS!!!

widget

 

[coda72]

The setting is very nice, and it looks like a radiant in the center. Will you be having the diamond set in this setting by your local jeweler? Sometimes jewelers are reluctant to set stones that were bought elsewhere, so if you go this route, make sure the jeweler doesn''t mind setting a stone that wasn''t bought at his/her store.

 

[KTM300]

More photos

 

[KTM300]

more