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Is 60/60 a bad proportion for a round diamond- can we trust a GIA "EX" cut grade?

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MissGotRocks

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GIA excellent cut graded stones have more variance in them. Many people have bought them and loved them - depending on how the angles work. I don''t think anyone is trying to say that they are all bad - just that they require further interpretation.

I had a 60/60 stone graded by GIA before their cut grading came into play. It was a white, brilliant stone. I was looking to trade it up to a larger stone - it was at the 2 carat mark. When I started reading about H&A and AGS0 stones, I really thought it was some sort of marketing gimmick. Then I went to see an ideal cut stone. I ended up trading that 60/60 stone for a 2 ct. AGS0 ideal cut stone. The difference - to me - was night and day. Finally I found that ''sparkle'' that I had been missing for so long. Then I began reading and learning about crown/pavillion angle relationships and started understanding a bit about how they worked - or didn''t. I eventually traded up to a 2.22 AGS0 stone - and I''ve been nothing but thrilled with the performance. The edge to edge brillance these ideal cut stones provide is is just a different look to my eyes than the 60/60 stones - and I saw alot of them as well. Who knows what the future holds in terms of diamond cutting? I look forward to new and different as well although I think today''s ideal cuts will always hold a place in my heart so I understand you feeling the way you do about your concept of a beautiful stone. The 60/60''s and today''s version of an ideal cut stone are two different animals. Once you have pointed out the differences, you need to step back and let people make their own decisions.

Many of us have spent many hours here trying to learn and absorb all we can about the particulars of diamond cutting and grading. Certainly doesn''t make us experts - it just gives us knowledge to make an informed decision when buying. While I appreciate you presenting the virtues of another cut, it doesn''t and won''t cancel out what many of us have seen and experienced with our own eyes and wallets.

You can only present information to people - what they choose to do with it is another matter. Honking the horn harder doesn''t make the information more acceptable or believeable. It''s just a different point of view to consider - then you have to step back and let people decide for themselves what they want. We don''t necessarily champion our group of experts here - we have just watched and learned and seen the fruits of what they say delivered. The proof is in the end result.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/18/2009 3:47:19 PM
Author: MikeRato1
karl i think mine scored about a 25 lol. i dont think this is a stone that most would consider nice

heres the crappy numbers though...

depth 62%

table 58%

crown angle 35.5

crown height 15.0%

pavilion angle 41.0 do you think that is the main problem?

pavilion depth 43.0%

star length 55%

lower half 75%

girdle- thin to slightly thick

faceted 3.9%


hope i am not banned from this site for my purchase!

That is in the range that in a 2 eyed view can cover any slight table leakage.
Within the GIA rounding of the numbers there is room for an excellent diamond.
I think you did good.
When shopping in person you can play the edges and get excellent diamonds that I would not recommend buying online.
It is on the edge but can be safely on the excellent side.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/18/2009 3:53:49 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Karl, as a trades person on PS, posting photos is not allowed.
Used as I proposed it would fall into the education content exception to those rules.
 

Rockdiamond

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HI Purrfect- It's true that my livelihood is selling diamonds- and as such my participation here makes sense from that standpoint.
Yet, I have never made any effort to sell anything here.
Although many clients have done so, I have never discussed our merchandise here.

I never said you don't need a GIA report- just the opposite.
I feel that the GIA "EX" Cut grade means the consumer is getting a well cut diamond, by industry standards.
Do I use IS and ASET? No.
Does most of the diamond world? No.
Mind you that does not make either position "right"
In fact, I have repeatedly said that if someone is looking for the same type of stone that Garry likes, or John, or anyone using ASETS and IS images, then here is a GREAT place to get valuable input on IS and ASET.

You've never made any secret of the fact you disapprove of just about anything I or my company does- of course that's your right.
I have been doing this over 30 years, and was trained by one of the world's finest diamond houses.
Saying that my opinion is not valid simply because you don't like me seems very unfair.
Obviously you can simply ignore everything I say, and others can also make up their own minds.

Your quote:
"It is still unlikely that anyone on PS will ever go out of their way to recommend that a consumer start with a 60/60 because the odds of an ideal performing diamond just aren't there"

As I mentioned, I have been grading diamonds for over 30 years, trained by Harry Winston- based on looking at many thousands of diamonds, I feel your statement is not accurate.
All due respect, but how did you come to the conclusion mentioned above?

Within a few moments of starting the thread it became apparent that a member had gotten advice that caused them to "loose sleep"
The guy already bought a diamond- I 'm not trying to sell him anything. If there's people in the industry- people dedicated to making the best cut possible- and some of those people that feel differently about this than many of the experts here on PS.... learning such an opinion might make them feel better, and what's wrong with that?

You asked why I'm here...it's really due to the fact that I believe the other side needs airing. I believe most who come here get the advice they seek- but there's also a percentage that gain real benefit from hearing an alternative viewpoint.
My point is that neither side is "wrong"- both can have merit.
 

MikeRato1

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Date: 2/18/2009 6:34:14 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/18/2009 3:47:19 PM
Author: MikeRato1
karl i think mine scored about a 25 lol. i dont think this is a stone that most would consider nice

heres the crappy numbers though...

depth 62%

table 58%

crown angle 35.5

crown height 15.0%

pavilion angle 41.0 do you think that is the main problem?

pavilion depth 43.0%

star length 55%

lower half 75%

girdle- thin to slightly thick

faceted 3.9%


hope i am not banned from this site for my purchase!

That is in the range that in a 2 eyed view can cover any slight table leakage.
Within the GIA rounding of the numbers there is room for an excellent diamond.
I think you did good.
When shopping in person you can play the edges and get excellent diamonds that I would not recommend buying online.
It is on the edge but can be safely on the excellent side.
thank you
 

John P

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Date: 2/18/2009 2:57:19 PM
Author:Rockdiamond

John posted a simulated diamond of 60/60 that supposedly would get an EX cut grade, and somehow manages to be really badly cut.
John, if you could re-post that, and give us some side views, it could really forward this conversation.
GIA EX 60/60 with "ring of death" under-table leakage.

60-60-414-345-ex.jpg


Side view below.

60-60-414-345-ex-side.jpg
 

John P

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A beautiful GIA EX 60/60 for comparison. Also predicted AGS0.

60-60-410-335-ex-is.jpg
 

John P

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ASET of GIA EX 60/60 (AGS 0)

60-60-410-335-ex-asetimage.jpg
 

John P

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ASET of another GIA EX 60/60 with ring of death

60-604-414-350-ex-aset.jpg
 

JulieN

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Date: 2/18/2009 6:53:55 PM
Author: John Pollard
ASET of GIA EX 60/60 (AGS 0)

This ASET has about 10 different colors.
10.gif
19.gif
 

John P

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Date: 2/18/2009 3:47:19 PM
Author: MikeRato1
karl i think mine scored about a 25 lol. i dont think this is a stone that most would consider nice
heres the crappy numbers though...
depth 62%
table 58%
crown angle 35.5
crown height 15.0%
pavilion angle 41.0 do you think that is the main problem?
pavilion depth 43.0%
star length 55%
lower half 75%
girdle- thin to slightly thick
faceted 3.9%

hope i am not banned from this site for my purchase!
Steep/deep? Not to me. The PA is not bad if consistently-cut. The problem comes when there is variance and too many facets stray > 41.0. The crown is higher than we often see, but that can lead to beautiful fire.

This combo is predicted as AGS3 in light performance. The GIA EX ‘steep/deeps’ I warn of typically fall in the AGS6 and lower category.

For example, the two 60/60 GIA EX combos I posted with ring of death, above, are both predicted as AGS5.
 

John P

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Date: 2/18/2009 4:07:02 PM
Author: MikeRato1

i do feel that on this website i bought a crappy diamond, but when i venture off of this computer monitor my mind changes, that is why i am not an expert
It is shocking you were told this. Can you link the thread where you posted the detais? I would like to see who labeled it steep/deep - and based on what info - and in what context you were told it was “crappy.” Very sorry about that.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/18/2009 6:10:21 PM
Author: MissGotRocks

I had a 60/60 stone graded by GIA before their cut grading came into play. It was a white, brilliant stone. I was looking to trade it up to a larger stone - it was at the 2 carat mark. When I started reading about H&A and AGS0 stones, I really thought it was some sort of marketing gimmick. Then I went to see an ideal cut stone. I ended up trading that 60/60 stone for a 2 ct. AGS0 ideal cut stone. The difference - to me - was night and day. Finally I found that ''sparkle'' that I had been missing for so long. Then I began reading and learning about crown/pavillion angle relationships and started understanding a bit about how they worked - or didn''t. I eventually traded up to a 2.22 AGS0 stone - and I''ve been nothing but thrilled with the performance. The edge to edge brillance these ideal cut stones provide is is just a different look to my eyes than the 60/60 stones - and I saw alot of them as well. Who knows what the future holds in terms of diamond cutting? I look forward to new and different as well although I think today''s ideal cuts will always hold a place in my heart so I understand you feeling the way you do about your concept of a beautiful stone. The 60/60''s and today''s version of an ideal cut stone are two different animals. Once you have pointed out the differences, you need to step back and let people make their own decisions.
yup, that''s why i had my wife''s (flat top) 60/60 stone recut by Infinity into an AGS 0. the flat top 60/60 stone just didn''t have much fire to it.
 

Rockdiamond

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Date: 2/18/2009 6:10:21 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
GIA excellent cut graded stones have more variance in them. Many people have bought them and loved them - depending on how the angles work. I don't think anyone is trying to say that they are all bad - just that they require further interpretation.

I had a 60/60 stone graded by GIA before their cut grading came into play. It was a white, brilliant stone. I was looking to trade it up to a larger stone - it was at the 2 carat mark. When I started reading about H&A and AGS0 stones, I really thought it was some sort of marketing gimmick. Then I went to see an ideal cut stone. I ended up trading that 60/60 stone for a 2 ct. AGS0 ideal cut stone. The difference - to me - was night and day. Finally I found that 'sparkle' that I had been missing for so long. Then I began reading and learning about crown/pavillion angle relationships and started understanding a bit about how they worked - or didn't. I eventually traded up to a 2.22 AGS0 stone - and I've been nothing but thrilled with the performance. The edge to edge brillance these ideal cut stones provide is is just a different look to my eyes than the 60/60 stones - and I saw alot of them as well. Who knows what the future holds in terms of diamond cutting? I look forward to new and different as well although I think today's ideal cuts will always hold a place in my heart so I understand you feeling the way you do about your concept of a beautiful stone. The 60/60's and today's version of an ideal cut stone are two different animals. Once you have pointed out the differences, you need to step back and let people make their own decisions.

Many of us have spent many hours here trying to learn and absorb all we can about the particulars of diamond cutting and grading. Certainly doesn't make us experts - it just gives us knowledge to make an informed decision when buying. While I appreciate you presenting the virtues of another cut, it doesn't and won't cancel out what many of us have seen and experienced with our own eyes and wallets.

You can only present information to people - what they choose to do with it is another matter. Honking the horn harder doesn't make the information more acceptable or believeable. It's just a different point of view to consider - then you have to step back and let people decide for themselves what they want. We don't necessarily champion our group of experts here - we have just watched and learned and seen the fruits of what they say delivered. The proof is in the end result.
Thank you for sharing your experience Missgotrocks.
Always great to hear when a person loves the diamond they got!
I agree- if a person wants to find out if they can see the difference larger, and a smaller table, they should absolutely do so.
Just curious, but what's the table and depth of the diamond you got?



Karl, thank for pointing that out about the photos.
I don't have a single 60/60 in the house- and rarely see them anymore, as most of the cutters we deal with are high end. When cutting rounds today, these cutters are going for the type of stones preferred by many people here.
In talking to them, it's a simple market decision.
People who want the "Ideal" cut are extremely particular. Buyers are willing to pay more for a cut, and cutters respond.
I still might be able to dig one up and post it, if that would be ok.

John- thank for posting those!

The second 60/60 is exactly the type of stone I'm talking about.
Could you do a side view of that one?

The first example does look very heavy above the girdle- almost like a bulging pavilion on some fancy shapes- except above the girdle.
Remarkable that GIA would give that an EX cut grade. I have not seen one cut that way, it would be interesting if we had a live diamond to really see what it looks like.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 2/18/2009 6:34:14 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/18/2009 3:47:19 PM
Author: MikeRato1
karl i think mine scored about a 25 lol. i dont think this is a stone that most would consider nice

heres the crappy numbers though...

depth 62%

table 58%

crown angle 35.5

crown height 15.0%

pavilion angle 41.0 do you think that is the main problem?

pavilion depth 43.0%

star length 55%

lower half 75%

girdle- thin to slightly thick

faceted 3.9%


hope i am not banned from this site for my purchase!

That is in the range that in a 2 eyed view can cover any slight table leakage.
Within the GIA rounding of the numbers there is room for an excellent diamond.
I think you did good.
When shopping in person you can play the edges and get excellent diamonds that I would not recommend buying online.
It is on the edge but can be safely on the excellent side.
It is also my experiance that appropriate painting can turn these proportions into winners by adjusting the facets that actually leak, as storm will be reporting very shortly..
Ths is not a Steep Deep - SD is the No Go Zone - where leakage is very bad.
 

MikeRato1

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Date: 2/18/2009 7:00:37 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/18/2009 4:07:02 PM
Author: MikeRato1

i do feel that on this website i bought a crappy diamond, but when i venture off of this computer monitor my mind changes, that is why i am not an expert
It is shocking you were told this. Can you link the thread where you posted the detais? I would like to see who labeled it steep/deep - and based on what info - and in what context you were told it was “crappy.” Very sorry about that.
john, i was never told i bought a crap diamond, nor did i say someone told me that, i just said that "i feel" that way. the main reason i feel that way is because i value garys opinion alot and thats the reason i was using his hca tool during my search, and when i say "during" i mean right there in front of the sales associate. i understand that alot of these forums are opinions and i greatly appreciate everyones (expert or not) so if there is a topic that i do not agree with i just do not take part
 

Rockdiamond

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I thank everyone for participating.
Purrfect- I apologize for even questioning your post.
In looking at it, I think your post was rhetorical, and it may have been rude of me to even answer.

Peace.
 

strmrdr

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There are exactly 2 ags0 60-60s in the pricescope search.
Here is one of them.
32.7 41 59.9T 76lgf%

AGS10087406zoom.jpeg
 

Maisie

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Date: 2/18/2009 7:33:45 PM
Author: MikeRato1

john, i was never told i bought a crap diamond, nor did i say someone told me that, i just said that ''i feel'' that way. the main reason i feel that way is because i value garys opinion alot and thats the reason i was using his hca tool during my search, and when i say ''during'' i mean right there in front of the sales associate. i understand that alot of these forums are opinions and i greatly appreciate everyones (expert or not) so if there is a topic that i do not agree with i just do not take part
Mike your fiances ring is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen on PS. When I first saw it I was blown away. You did good!!!
 

strmrdr

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Here is the second:
32.4 41.4 80% lgf% 60.1t

36088CER.JPG
 

Rockdiamond

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Wow- 1.24 F/VVS1- I''ll bet that''s a gorgous diamond.......
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/18/2009 4:14:55 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
DF- I deal with diamond cutters every day.
Maybe I''m just lucky, but the ones I know are honest and hardworking.
It''s an incredibly tough business and a few bad decisions can put a cutter out of business.
Cutting badly cut stones will also threaten a cutter''s business.
It''s a shame you feel that there''s cutters purposefully trying to cut a bad stone...maybe there are isolated cases, but on a broader scale, I don''t believe the facts bear you out on this.

As I''ve stated, there''s a lot of extremely knowledgeable diamond people that agree with GIA''s cut grade.
IMO...they''re purposely cutting a lot of steep/deep stones to make the GIA EX cut zone.
 

MikeRato1

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Date: 2/18/2009 8:10:32 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 2/18/2009 7:33:45 PM
Author: MikeRato1

john, i was never told i bought a crap diamond, nor did i say someone told me that, i just said that ''i feel'' that way. the main reason i feel that way is because i value garys opinion alot and thats the reason i was using his hca tool during my search, and when i say ''during'' i mean right there in front of the sales associate. i understand that alot of these forums are opinions and i greatly appreciate everyones (expert or not) so if there is a topic that i do not agree with i just do not take part
Mike your fiances ring is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen on PS. When I first saw it I was blown away. You did good!!!
thank you very much!
 

MikeRato1

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Date: 2/18/2009 8:31:19 PM
Author: Dancing Fire


Date: 2/18/2009 4:14:55 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
DF- I deal with diamond cutters every day.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but the ones I know are honest and hardworking.
It's an incredibly tough business and a few bad decisions can put a cutter out of business.
Cutting badly cut stones will also threaten a cutter's business.
It's a shame you feel that there's cutters purposefully trying to cut a bad stone...maybe there are isolated cases, but on a broader scale, I don't believe the facts bear you out on this.

As I've stated, there's a lot of extremely knowledgeable diamond people that agree with GIA's cut grade.
IMO...they're purposely cutting a lot of steep/deep stones to make the GIA EX cut zone.
dancing fire, my sales associate said she sometimes thought that too, she was brutally honest with us

edit: what neither of us understood was she had a couple gia ex that she considered steep/deep that were .10 above the 1ct mark, i would have guessed that shaving off .10 is a pretty large amount and still able to keep the 1.00ct, wouldnt shaving off a little make it less deep?
 

Rockdiamond

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Good post DF- Your point is part of the essence of the conversation.
Maybe people think the cutters are out to get over on the buyers.
It would seem that's what you're implying- please excuse me if that was not your intent.
Part of this discussion is about what is called "Steep Deep"- that is to say a diamond graded EX cut grade by GIA but not thought to be deserving of the "Ex" cut grade. I'm paraphrasing what I have read here- steep deep what you need to watch out for in GIA EX cut grade.
What if, just for the sake of conversation we can say that not all people would see the phenomenon described as negative in the viewing. Say enough people actually picked what is described as "steep Deep" to be included in GIA's EX cut grade.

The other aspect to remember is that if there is a clear detriment to the appearance of the stone, a cutter would be foolish to follow that course on purpose.
Even though I feel that many buyers are safe with a GIA EX cut grade- I also make sure to remind people to get detailed photos, videos, and a money back guarantee.
If the stone is bad looking, the GIA cut grade isn't going to satisfy the buyer.


Al of this is entirely outside the realm of really horribly cut junk- of which you have to wonder why it was cut. Generally when I've seen such material it was also really poor and dull rough.
Stones that get GIA EX cut grade are not in that league- even if they are steep deep.
 

strmrdr

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ok after clicking on over 100 diamonds in the PS search I found very very few 60/60s with reports listed and have a worse headache than when I started.
They ranged using the badly rounded gia numbers from ags0 potential to ags4 potential light performance with excellent optical symmetry which is not a given and a large assumption.
Some of them would be kicked down for contrast not leakage.
But with a sample size of less than 10 I can not draw any conclusions.
I used a range of .1 on either side of 60/60 for depth/table.
The steepest pavilion was 41.8 and the steepest crown was 34.5 but not on the same diamond.
 

:)

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Not all GIA ex are created equal. GIA rounds its numbers so variances/less tightly cut diamonds are going to be at higher risk for leakage than tightly cut stones when they are bordering on the edge of a rounded number. So we should never say automatically that a GIA Ex means it is a well cut stone.

There is more to light performance than simple table and depth 60/60 or even 56/62 - the performance is all about the physics and the angles which HAS to include pa and ca, variances, etc. This is why each stone must be evaluated with all data - the performance is dependent on the interplay of all angles and numbers - a concert of sorts - sometimes you get a beautiful symphony, sometimes the horn section is off that night and makes for an unpleasant performance.

I don''t think anyone says/believes cutters cut in an deliberate attempt to rip the consumer off, but some/many do cut to hit magic numbers to maximize personal financial benefit (which in general is a simple trait of human nature.) Gilbertson''s book even talks about the difficulties Morse had in the late 1800s with the Dutch cutters who cut for weight when he wanted to cut for beauty - There was a history of actual fines levied against the cutters for more than the worth of the actual stone (not just lower payment) for cutters who cut too much weight off their rough.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/18/2009 8:57:57 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Good post DF- Your point is part of the essence of the conversation.
Maybe people think the cutters are out to get over on the buyers.
It would seem that's what you're implying- please excuse me if that was not your intent.
Part of this discussion is about what is called 'Steep Deep'- that is to say a diamond graded EX cut grade by GIA but not thought to be deserving of the 'Ex' cut grade. I'm paraphrasing what I have read here- steep deep what you need to watch out for in GIA EX cut grade.
What if, just for the sake of conversation we can say that not all people would see the phenomenon described as negative in the viewing. Say enough people actually picked what is described as 'steep Deep' to be included in GIA's EX cut grade.

The other aspect to remember is that if there is a clear detriment to the appearance of the stone, a cutter would be foolish to follow that course on purpose.
Even though I feel that many buyers are safe with a GIA EX cut grade- I also make sure to remind people to get detailed photos, videos, and a money back guarantee.
If the stone is bad looking, the GIA cut grade isn't going to satisfy the buyer.


Al of this is entirely outside the realm of really horribly cut junk- of which you have to wonder why it was cut. Generally when I've seen such material it was also really poor and dull rough.
Stones that get GIA EX cut grade are not in that league- even if they are steep deep.
RD...

i beleive these stones are use by jewelers to target consumers whom goes into a jewelry store asking to see some GIA Ex cuts w/o knowing about steep/deep stones.

anyway,a friend of mine return from HK where he bought a 2.05ct G vvs1 GIA stone,he show me the GIA report (graded EX,EX,EX ) and ask me what i think about his stone. this stone had a crown angle of 35.5' with a pavill of 41.4' and the pavil depth was over 44%
23.gif
. my friend put his trust in GIA,but in return he gets a S/D combo. soo...a GIA EX cut grade does not guarantee a well cut stone.

btw; a few months earlier he bought a pair of 1ct GIA XXX (for studs) with similar specs as the 2.05 ct above.
23.gif
so yes,he's batting a 1000, 3 out of 3, steep/deep combo
14.gif
 

Rockdiamond

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Date: 2/19/2009 12:17:05 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/18/2009 8:57:57 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Good post DF- Your point is part of the essence of the conversation.
Maybe people think the cutters are out to get over on the buyers.
It would seem that''s what you''re implying- please excuse me if that was not your intent.
Part of this discussion is about what is called ''Steep Deep''- that is to say a diamond graded EX cut grade by GIA but not thought to be deserving of the ''Ex'' cut grade. I''m paraphrasing what I have read here- steep deep what you need to watch out for in GIA EX cut grade.
What if, just for the sake of conversation we can say that not all people would see the phenomenon described as negative in the viewing. Say enough people actually picked what is described as ''steep Deep'' to be included in GIA''s EX cut grade.

The other aspect to remember is that if there is a clear detriment to the appearance of the stone, a cutter would be foolish to follow that course on purpose.
Even though I feel that many buyers are safe with a GIA EX cut grade- I also make sure to remind people to get detailed photos, videos, and a money back guarantee.
If the stone is bad looking, the GIA cut grade isn''t going to satisfy the buyer.


Al of this is entirely outside the realm of really horribly cut junk- of which you have to wonder why it was cut. Generally when I''ve seen such material it was also really poor and dull rough.
Stones that get GIA EX cut grade are not in that league- even if they are steep deep.
RD...

i beleive these stones are use by jewelers to target consumers whom goes into a jewelry store asking to see some GIA Ex cuts w/o knowing about steep/deep stones.

anyway,a friend of mine return from HK where he bought a 2.05ct G vvs1 GIA stone,he show me the GIA report (graded EX,EX,EX ) and ask me what i think about his stone. this stone had a crown angle of 35.5'' with a pavill of 41.4'' and the pavil depth was over 44%
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. my friend put his trust in GIA,but in return he gets a S/D combo. soo...a GIA EX cut grade does not guarantee a well cut stone.

btw; a few months earlier he bought a pair of 1ct GIA XXX (for studs) with similar specs as the 2.05 ct above.
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so yes,he''s batting a 1000, 3 out of 3, steep/deep combo
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DF- thanks- another great post!

If you look at this objectively, you are proving my point.
Your friend went to Hong Kong, and bought a 2+ carat G/VVS1 diamond. You did not say so, but it seems he or she walked into a store and purchased the diamond after looking at it.
In Hong Kong, such a stone would be quite costly.
Your friend picked the diamond.
Now, we can analyze the cut, and call it "steep deep" but the look of the stone was good enough that your friend forked over a lot of money to buy it.
Do we know if your friend compared to other GIA EX stones?
It seems likely someone spending a lot of money would, but say they didn''t. They still picked the diamond- and apparently he''s already picked two others that he was extremely pleased with.

If we consider how the differences in table and depth affect a diamond, and how it''s looked at, there''s going to be a few different groups of people.
One group won''t be able to see the difference between what would be considered well cut here on PS, and a "steep deep"
The next group will prefer the stone recommended here on PS.
But there is going to be a third group that will pick what is termed here to be a "steep deep"
We know this is the case from practical experience. But I also place a lot of faith in GIA, and what they did to create the cut grade.
Over 70,000 human observations were compared against light return measured using the best technology available.

Apparently your friend, along with many other observers, chose a diamond that might be knocked here as badly cut.
Is your friend wrong?
Would telling your friend he got ripped off, and bought a badly cut diamond be a good thing to do?

My position is that your friend picked based on his taste, so he really can''t be wrong. Add to this the fact that GIA put so much effort into designing an effective, and inclusive cut grade.

I feel GIA can be trusted- and that buying a diamond with an EX cut grade guarantees the buyer a well cut diamond.
Will it be to every one''s liking?
No. If given stones to choose from visually, some might choose a larger tabled spreadier diamond, others might choose a "steep Deep" and still others might choose another combination based on their likes and dislikes.
But that does not make someone who likes another style of cutting wrong- or the diamond in question "badly cut".
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
But has he look at a better cut diamond before? Did he do it in store lighting? If he has looked at an Ideal cut before and compared it side by side with the S/D he bought outside of store lighting and in diffused lighting conditions and if he still prefer his S/D, then we can say that is his taste. If not, I would not say he prefer one over the other as he has not seen how an ideal cut stone perform. S/D leaks light but it also means that light can enter from the pavilion making it perform better in bright lighting spot conditions such as in a store front.
 
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