Inclusions

[redfaerythinker]

edited to add, obviously as my stone is from Nigeria, and not Paraiba, my stone is paraiba type. And it meets all of the qualifications of saturation and hue to be called such.

 

[chrono]

Red,
I think the debate Am Guy and I had was not about the colour or quality of your stone. We were only discussing terminology. As mentioned, one group will classify your tourmaline as paraiba type due to copper content, but a different group disagrees. The latter thinks that it must not only have copper content but also have the bright neon glow to be classified as such. The saturation and hue are a different thing from the intense glow. The neon effect is where it glows like it has its own internal battery pack. The only stones that can be called a Paraiba at this time are those from the original mine in Brazil from the paraiba area.

 

[Barrett]

I would hope that most folks on here and including you would want an honest and truthful opinion or answer. I don''t sugarcoat things I tell it like it is. Isn''t that what you are supposed to do? You posted it and I commented on it. If you were to do a little research and see what terms, meanings, and colors are used for different stones in the gem world then you would see why it affects somebody like me who has spent countless hours upon hours messing with these things. I am quick to point out or correct what I see fit. You can''t hold that against me.

" and you used my thread to start a discussion on the horrors of calling a blue green stone a "Paraiba". [end quote] well, it''s a serious subject..maybe not to you but to me and many many others it is.

"You have a grand total of 31 posts and at least five of them were spent on expounding on my poor stone"[endquote]
does that really matter?? The other 25 post were praising or commenting on how nice other folks stones are.

"I''m very sorry if I have offended your higher moral standards"[endquote] You are right my standards are probably higher than yours which is why I posted what I did on the nigerian thread and you responded the way you did. You can''t praise every stone you ever see on here..if you do that then you are being fake. I apologize for making you angry..in all honesty I was hoping you would learn and understand a little more what I was saying when I posted what I did. It was never a personal attack on your stone. if it was then I would not have said "nice stone" in my original post. Sorry red

 

[redfaerythinker]

This forum is about learning, but it is more about friendship and support. My thread was purely to share excitement over a new purchase, and for you to bring up your discussion there was wrong. If you wanted to discuss the definition of paraiba you should have started your own thread. If you really wanted to enlighten me, there are much better avenues to do so, without insulting me and my ethical standards. And the most important thing, is that no, you cannot say something good about every stone and every piece of jewelry that you see here. Everyone is different and has their different tastes. But there is no law that says you must comment on every thread. If you don''t have something nice to say... don''t say anything.

 

[Barrett]

sigh..........................

 

[Harriet]

Red,
You have a pretty stone, and no one is disputing that. Amethystguy is questioning the characterisation of your stone as a Paraiba-type tourmaline, which has been a hot topic in the gem world. If a stone is being sold to me at a Paraiba-type premium, I''d like to know whether it counts as one or not.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Red, I agree that perhaps the discussion of your particular stone being brought up here was taking it a bit too far.
I think your stone is lovely.
I have 2 questions for everyone.
1) If a stone comes from the original paraiba mine, and it glows but it''s not super super neon like it''s charged with an internal battery pack, is it a paraiba? (I''m talking about my little stone)
2) Would Red''s stone not be more neon if it was heated? If this is the case, would it then (if heated) qualify as "paraiba like", as opposed to "blue green tourmaline"?

 

[Barrett]

If the stone glowed and had copper chromophores then it would be a paraiba or paraiba-like stone. The difference between the one that glows and the one with the super super neon look is..the glowing one will cost $2000 a ct. and the super super one will cost $10,000 a ct. I will let the great bruce(the tourmaline king) tell it like he told me....

1, The tourmaline must be colored principally by copper and manganese.

I find this interesting because after heating paraiba to the blue/green color, manganese is not a factor in its color unless it is combined with titanium. I also believe that if nature produced a blue/green tourmaline (with the other properties of paraiba tourmaline) from Paraiba with no measurable manganese, it would still be paraiba as long as it had copper. In other words whether paraiba tourmaine has or does not have manganese does not effect it being paraiba. Also paraiba tourmaline must have copper as a chromophore, just being copper bearing is not enough. In other words a tourmaline that gains its color and saturation from iron and is bright (they are out there) could not be called paraiba/paraiba like/pariaba type just because it contains an insignificant but still measurable amount of copper.

2, The tourmaline must have a medium to high saturation of hue/color. Different names for different saturations of the same mineral is nothing new in naming gemstones. It is tough to draw a line of demarcation in the continuous gradation of color, but a consensus can be reached.

3, The tourmaline must have the color of blue to green and blue to purplish blue. Having enough copper to be a chromophore and effect color in red/pink/yellow green/purple/brown/yellow etc. does not make it a paraiba. Even the ability of cuprian purples to be heated to make paraiba doesn''t make purple, without blue, paraiba.

4, With the resolution in nomenclature, only a tourmaline with all the above properties of color/brightness/saturation correct and now the correct provenance can be blessed with the name paraiba

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Okay thanks.

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/9/2009 11:56:12 PM
Author: Harriet
Red,
You have a pretty stone, and no one is disputing that. Amethystguy is questioning the characterisation of your stone as a Paraiba-type tourmaline, which has been a hot topic in the gem world. If a stone is being sold to me at a Paraiba-type premium, I''d like to know whether it counts as one or not.

Thank you, Harriet. You explained it so much better than me.

 

[LD]

Red, when I buy Paraiba (or Paraiba like) Tourmaline, the criteria I use are:-

1. Does it glow? For me this is what stands a Paraiba apart and I use it as a defining criteria. That''s just me though and doesn''t mean it would be the most important criteria for anybody else!!!! Generally speaking though, for many Paraiba enthusiasts glow and colour are the two essential criteria.
2. Is the colour a show stopper? Does it radiate colour that you can see across the room?
3. If the stone has inclusions do they inhibit the performance? Too many inclusions can make for a murky stone that doesn''t sparkle or perform as well as those that are cleaner.
4. Cut. Many many Paraiba (or Paraiba like) Tourmalines are unfortunately cut to maximise weight and you can find more poor cut stones than well cut ones. Yours is a well cut stone and that makes it very pretty indeed.
5. Price. For me, I won''t pay a premium unless number 1, 2 and 3 meet my expectations. Many stones are labelled Paraiba to increase the price and you see this unfortunately most commonly in stones that don''t exhibit the "glow".

Others will accept a Paraiba name with a stone that doesn''t glow but does have good colour. Is it right/wrong? There are different schools of thought. Your gemstone is lovely and if it makes your heart sing then that''s the most important issue. Enjoy your new purchase and please post pictures of it when it''s set.

Just for reference I once posted a thread with pictures of my Paraibas (and Paraiba Like) Tourmalines. You''ll see that there are some that don''t glow (my earlier purchases lol) and some that definitely do!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/paraiba-tourmaline-fetish-went-a-bit-overboard.109252/

 

[Barrett]

WOW LD you have quite some stones there..I am very impressed. That is an awesome thread you linked. I can see you are a conissouer. I am sure your standards are pretty high now that you have dabbled quite a few times in that type of tourm.. it is a most prestigeous stone..thanks for the link

 

[Harriet]

AG, thoughts?

 

[LtlFirecracker]

 

[brandy_z28]

Date: 6/10/2009 10:13:10 PM
Author: Harriet
AG, thoughts?

Wow Harriet! I''m not AG and when I look at that picture my eyes get big and my mind goes blank....all that comes to me is, where''s the emerald cut? It seems that you have the rest covered.

 

[Barrett]

I see some neon trying to come out on some of those facets(that bright turquoise blue you see)..maybe a different angle?

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 6/10/2009 10:13:10 PM
Author: Harriet
AG, thoughts?

Are those from PI?

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/11/2009 3:08:15 AM
Author: kribbie

Date: 6/10/2009 10:13:10 PM
Author: Harriet
AG, thoughts?

Are those from PI?

Not Harriet, but yes, those are the PI stones.

 

[chrono]

I second Am Guy for more pictures to see the glow better. I can see some trying to show itself on the lower half of the stones but not quite making it.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 6/11/2009 8:30:30 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 6/11/2009 3:08:15 AM
Author: kribbie

Date: 6/10/2009 10:13:10 PM
Author: Harriet
AG, thoughts?

Are those from PI?

Not Harriet, but yes, those are the PI stones.

I''m so getting one. When I have enough cash, that is.

 

[Harriet]

More photos?! Can someone please fill Amethystguy in about how tech-challenged I am (which also means that you''ll never see a Photoshopped pic from me)? My point in posting my baby Paraibas is: In spite of their size, and thus diminished saturation, they still glow.

Brandy,
Don''t be a bad influence.

Kribbie,
Join the queue.

 

[brandy_z28]

Date: 6/11/2009 10:12:35 AM
Author: Harriet
More photos?! Can someone please fill Amethystguy in about how tech-challenged I am (which also means that you''ll never see a Photoshopped pic from me)? My point in posting my baby Paraibas is: In spite of their size, and thus diminished saturation, they still glow.

Brandy,
Don''t be a bad influence.

Kribbie,
Join the queue.

I''ve never been anything but, it''s my nature.

What size are they?! They don''t look small but then I guess size is relative and they look to be all about the same. What are your plans for them?

 

[Barrett]

Don''t feel bad harriet I am just like you. I can take the best photos of everything including mineral specs.but I have trouble with gems. I am still in the process of trying to get it down pat. I built my lightbox, got my plexi, and my 4700K solux per finewatergem''s setup. I think my problem is the camera. it takes great macro shots but to reflect light back onto the stone the camera needs to be a little ways away and I can''t zoom in good enough to still be a decent macro.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/11/2009 10:57:08 AM
Author: brandy_z28
I''ve never been anything but, it''s my nature.

What size are they?! They don''t look small but then I guess size is relative and they look to be all about the same. What are your plans for them?

Should I avoid you?

They are teensy. The elongated cushion, for example, is only 4.5mm in length. Someday, I''ll bezel set them in high K gold and cluster them together for a ring.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/11/2009 12:02:52 PM
Author: amethystguy
Don''t feel bad harriet I am just like you. I can take the best photos of everything including mineral specs.but I have trouble with gems. I am still in the process of trying to get it down pat. I built my lightbox, got my plexi, and my 4700K solux per finewatergem''s setup. I think my problem is the camera. it takes great macro shots but to reflect light back onto the stone the camera needs to be a little ways away and I can''t zoom in good enough to still be a decent macro.

What do you think of the lightboxes Kassoy sells?

 

[LD]

Date: 6/11/2009 10:47:14 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 6/11/2009 12:02:52 PM
Author: amethystguy
Don''t feel bad harriet I am just like you. I can take the best photos of everything including mineral specs.but I have trouble with gems. I am still in the process of trying to get it down pat. I built my lightbox, got my plexi, and my 4700K solux per finewatergem''s setup. I think my problem is the camera. it takes great macro shots but to reflect light back onto the stone the camera needs to be a little ways away and I can''t zoom in good enough to still be a decent macro.

What do you think of the lightboxes Kassoy sells?

Not AmGuy but hope you don''t mind if I answer? I''ve tried all types of light boxes and for some gemstones they work well but green and blue gemstones seem to be the most difficult to photograph. I take hundreds of photos until I get one that finally looks like what I''m seeing! I don''t think there is a "one size fits all" for taking photos of gemstones as some will photograph better in natural light and some in electric light. It''s so hit and miss! My Emerald ring for example looked fabulous in Turkey and I managed to get some wonderful photos of it but then in England where the light is different it just doesn''t want to look pretty! I think we should all move to Mochi''s house and let her take our photos by her pool!

 

[Harriet]

Thanks for your help, LD. Of course I don''t mind. Have you taken pictures in UV light before?

 

[LD]

Date: 6/13/2009 10:53:24 PM
Author: Harriet
Thanks for your help, LD. Of course I don''t mind. Have you taken pictures in UV light before?

Harriet I''ve tried it all! Natural light, halogens, UV - great for fluor shots!, sunlight, cloudy, etc etc! I never can tell which gem will look best in which light. For me, it''s a total hit and miss affair. The light box seemed to make the gemstones lack dimension and they looked dull and I used all types of different bulbs including daylight ones and tried it by diffusing from outside the lightbox and then inside - I tried everything. The lightbox is now residing quite happily under the stairs gathering dust!!!!

I''m sooooooo technically challenged you wouldn''t believe but I enjoy taking photos so spending the extra couple of hours to find one good photo is fun for a gem anorak like me!!!

One thing I''d love to do is learn to photoshop (buying it in the first instance might be a good idea) but I''d love to experiment with it and see if I can improve my design ideas because at the moment I just use Powerpoint and that''s so limiting!

 

[Harriet]

LD,
I can''t even use Powerpoint!

 

[Moh 10]

If the inclusions bug you don't buy the stone.
You should experience pleasure when looking at your gems.

What bugs someone else does not matter.
You are the one who will be wearing it.