In need of advice for an engagement ring

[krede60]

@msop04 - I agree would agree that .9ct was overkill in color and clarity, but I thought the paying of the premium was in comparison to the 1.0ct,. Essentially that extra .1ct was costing several grades of color and clarity and an additional 500 dollars. I would really prefer to get a H VS2 1ct diamond with the best cut I can find. I'd not pay excess in any of the other 4c's.

I doubt the setting will be that exciting. I'm thinking something basic, just 6-prongs, no frills, would be more my girlfriend's style.

@distracts - I definitely would spend 10k on the ring if I didn't know that even a 5k ring is probably going to make her nervous to wear it. I'm hoping to stay under my 10k budget if possible to avoid her being uncomfortable wearing it, but also to leave some room in the budget if I totally whiff on the setting. I absolutely love how that setting on whiteflash looks. I've seen several knife-edge 6-prong solitaire settings and the prongs just seem to look overwhelming. In this one, not so much.

@bastetcat - I had no idea how that pavilion and crown angles were very critical to the performance of the diamond. I'd much rather invest in the cut above all else, so I guess it's a question of how important are they? From what I've been able to read Crown Angle should be 33=35 degrees, and Pavilion Angle between 40.6 to 41 degrees. Would it be worth going from a VS2 to an eye-clean SI1 or from a H color to I or J to keep these angles within acceptable ranges?

Thanks!

 

[Niel]

here is a good rule of thumb , if you look in the advanced search options on places, they let you narrow down by table and depth, but then you have to read the certs to get the angles
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%, i would START the search with limiting your parameters to 62, just because that means if you find a good one, you didnt have to go any deeper.
table - 54- 57% (but ive sometimes searched for 5
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

 

[Niel]

here are a few ( i personally prefer ritani settings to JA, but nice settings can be found at both places)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.02-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-184916

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-1-06-Carat-J-color-GIA-certified/D-C1H33X

 

[krede60]

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

Thanks for the info. I wasn't really sure if J would start to show noticeable color or not. Also, I agree, I only care about the clarity being eye-clean and I know SI's can be eye-clean, but I just don't trust myself to know what to look for to determine that, which is why I'd been looking at VS2 as a lower limit.

 

[Niel]

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

Thanks for the info. I wasn't really sure if J would start to show noticeable color or not. Also, I agree, I only care about the clarity being eye-clean and I know SI's can be eye-clean, but I just don't trust myself to know what to look for to determine that, which is why I'd been looking at VS2 as a lower limit.

For a person that giant into diamonds or jewelry, the average individual, a J is just fine. My stones are actually lower and I truly really love the color to them. They aren't stark white but I think for your gf it would be just fine. Most stones in the real world bought with soft grading reports are that color, and they wouldn't be near as well cut. A well cut stone reflects more light and helps look whiter too. And if you decide to put it in yellow or rose gold, those color stones are actually quite complimentary to that metal color.


A gemologist as the online vendor you are working with can help you determine if a stone is eye clean. Typically different companies have different definitions of the word, bit of you ask them "is this eye clean from the top and sides at 6inches". They will tell you the truth.

 

[jmarshall]

I realize that these are a princess, which is not what you are looking for, but one of these is a "G" and the other is an "i".... Very difficult to tell which is which.



The same stones face up.

 

[Niel]

My phone won't load it, but I think this the video that compares face up sizes and a j is in there. If not, poke around his YouTube site and you'll find one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vI3Tkd3VQU&sns=em

 

[bunnycat]

Sorry I didn't post sooner Krede. It looks like Niel gave you the "cheat sheet" for rounds. It doesn't cover all the bases, but at least gives you some sort of starting point to help look at the vast amount of stones that are out there.

You can also run numbers through the HCA tool on this site to help you weed through things. It's a rejection tool, not a selection tool and you'll still need more info after you've located stones scoring around or under 2. Just like with GIA EX where there may be stones outside "ideal" boundaries that are pretty, there may be stones that don't score well that are pretty but you need to work with a vendor who can be your "eyes" and give you extra info.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca


On color- You have a nice budget. You know that your GF isn't wanting a larger size stone (ie- much over a carat) at this time. With that in mind, and not knowing how color sensitive she is, I'd stick with G/H/I. You're not going for size, so to me, there's no need to sacrifice in the "color" department, which is one place a lot of people will ease up in order to be able to get the size they want. I find J's a strange "in between" color. I've seen K and lower that I liked and I and above that I like, but J's just don't seem to be in one camp or the other to me and there isn't any real need for you to go there unless you want to. Color is more of a personal preference and choice, and you have to find your own tolerances.

If it were me, I'd suggest a good vendor like Good Old Gold or Whiteflash who can give you all the performance information you need (idealscope, ASET images) with really good upgrade policies for later on. Like I said before, people's tastes change and there's a lot of guys that post on here "my Gf is tiny and doesn't want anything big" but well, people don't stay the same size either. I had size 4.75-5 fingers in my 20's and though I am still not a large person, my fingers certainly aren't a size 5 any more and my tastes are entirely different. Just food for future thought.

 

[Niel]

Sorry I didn't post sooner Krede. It looks like Niel gave you the "cheat sheet" for rounds. It doesn't cover all the bases, but at least gives you some sort of starting point to help look at the vast amount of stones that are out there.

You can also run numbers through the HCA tool on this site to help you weed through things. It's a rejection tool, not a selection tool and you'll still need more info after you've located stones scoring around or under 2. Just like with GIA EX where there may be stones outside "ideal" boundaries that are pretty, there may be stones that don't score well that are pretty but you need to work with a vendor who can be your "eyes" and give you extra info.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca


On color- You have a nice budget. You know that your GF isn't wanting a larger size stone (ie- much over a carat) at this time. With that in mind, and not knowing how color sensitive she is, I'd stick with G/H/I. You're not going for size, so to me, there's no need to sacrifice in the "color" department, which is one place a lot of people will ease up in order to be able to get the size they want. I find J's a strange "in between" color. I've seen K and lower that I liked and I and above that I like, but J's just don't seem to be in one camp or the other to me and there isn't any real need for you to go there unless you want to. Color is more of a personal preference and choice, and you have to find your own tolerances.

If it were me, I'd suggest a good vendor like Good Old Gold or Whiteflash who can give you all the performance information you need (idealscope, ASET images) with really good upgrade policies for later on. Like I said before, people's tastes change and there's a lot of guys that post on here "my Gf is tiny and doesn't want anything big" but well, people don't stay the same size either. I had size 4.75-5 fingers in my 20's and though I am still not a large person, my fingers certainly aren't a size 5 any more and my tastes are entirely different. Just food for future thought.

I agree color is somewhat personal but he does not have a 10k budget. If she is not comfortable wearing such an expensive ring I see no reason why he has to pay it. And he wants a ring that he will be proud showing off and shell be comfortable wearing, so I do think a 1ct in a near colorless but modest J seems like a good compromise to fit both their wants, especially sense the OP had expressed her dissinterest in something too expensive.... I mean a frugal woman would probably appreciate you putting money wear you can see it instead of where you may not....but I will say, its a good idea to see one in person.

 

[Nyc2chigal]

here is a good rule of thumb , if you look in the advanced search options on places, they let you narrow down by table and depth, but then you have to read the certs to get the angles
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%, i would START the search with limiting your parameters to 62, just because that means if you find a good one, you didnt have to go any deeper.
table - 54- 57% (but ive sometimes searched for 5
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

This is really informative.. Does this go for only rounds? Or for other cuts, as well?

 

[Niel]

here is a good rule of thumb , if you look in the advanced search options on places, they let you narrow down by table and depth, but then you have to read the certs to get the angles
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%, i would START the search with limiting your parameters to 62, just because that means if you find a good one, you didnt have to go any deeper.
table - 54- 57% (but ive sometimes searched for 5
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

This is really informative.. Does this go for only rounds? Or for other cuts, as well?

Yeah that's only for modern rounds.

B cat is right its only a starting point, punching the numbers in the HCA helps, as does idealscopes and the human eye (usually the gemologists eye sense its done online)

 

[Nyc2chigal]

here is a good rule of thumb , if you look in the advanced search options on places, they let you narrow down by table and depth, but then you have to read the certs to get the angles
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%, i would START the search with limiting your parameters to 62, just because that means if you find a good one, you didnt have to go any deeper.
table - 54- 57% (but ive sometimes searched for 5
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

if i were you id search in the I-J range. Still considered colorless, and will give you more bang for your buck. Also, clarity is somewhat irrelevant as long as its eye clean, so dont get caught up in the lettering as ling its an SI or above, if its eye clean thats all that really matters, right?

This is really informative.. Does this go for only rounds? Or for other cuts, as well?

Yeah that's only for modern rounds.

B cat is right its only a starting point, punching the numbers in the HCA helps, as does idealscopes and the human eye (usually the gemologists eye sense its done online)

Sorry for hijacking this thread for a bit.. Neil, can you point me in the right direction for what to look for in Cushion cuts?

Again, sorry!!

 

[bunnycat]

Sorry I didn't post sooner Krede. It looks like Niel gave you the "cheat sheet" for rounds. It doesn't cover all the bases, but at least gives you some sort of starting point to help look at the vast amount of stones that are out there.

You can also run numbers through the HCA tool on this site to help you weed through things. It's a rejection tool, not a selection tool and you'll still need more info after you've located stones scoring around or under 2. Just like with GIA EX where there may be stones outside "ideal" boundaries that are pretty, there may be stones that don't score well that are pretty but you need to work with a vendor who can be your "eyes" and give you extra info.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca


On color- You have a nice budget. You know that your GF isn't wanting a larger size stone (ie- much over a carat) at this time. With that in mind, and not knowing how color sensitive she is, I'd stick with G/H/I. You're not going for size, so to me, there's no need to sacrifice in the "color" department, which is one place a lot of people will ease up in order to be able to get the size they want. I find J's a strange "in between" color. I've seen K and lower that I liked and I and above that I like, but J's just don't seem to be in one camp or the other to me and there isn't any real need for you to go there unless you want to. Color is more of a personal preference and choice, and you have to find your own tolerances.

If it were me, I'd suggest a good vendor like Good Old Gold or Whiteflash who can give you all the performance information you need (idealscope, ASET images) with really good upgrade policies for later on. Like I said before, people's tastes change and there's a lot of guys that post on here "my Gf is tiny and doesn't want anything big" but well, people don't stay the same size either. I had size 4.75-5 fingers in my 20's and though I am still not a large person, my fingers certainly aren't a size 5 any more and my tastes are entirely different. Just food for future thought.

I agree color is somewhat personal but he does not have a 10k budget. If she is not comfortable wearing such an expensive ring I see no reason why he has to pay it. And he wants a ring that he will be proud showing off and shell be comfortable wearing, so I do think a 1ct in a near colorless but modest J seems like a good compromise to fit both their wants, especially sense the OP had expressed her dissinterest in something too expensive.... I mean a frugal woman would probably appreciate you putting money wear you can see it instead of where you may not....but I will say, its a good idea to see one in person.

Actually- he did say he was comfortable spending up to 10K. The stone I posted was a couple $K less than that. He needs to decide what he wants both color wise and price wise. My personal take on it is a 1 ct is going to look like 1ct whether it's a J or an H or an I. Does the fact that it's a J make it less "fancy" than an H? No. It's still the same size (assuming both are equally well cut) and so neither is more "fancy" than the other. Having a stone thats a DEFGH does not make a diamond fancy (to me). Fancy (for me) involves the setting itself or possible a fancy shape like pear or something. Does he know her color preferences or have they looked in person at different colors? No. In those cases, it seems better err on the side of caution until we have more info. Whether he gets her a 1ct G, H, I or J in a simple setting, the only person who is going to know the cost is him. To all other outward appearances they would be the same. I just prefer not to tell people "a J is fine" unless it's something they WANT or something they've SEEN and make the decision for themselves, like we all have to do.

 

[Niel]

Sorry I didn't post sooner Krede. It looks like Niel gave you the "cheat sheet" for rounds. It doesn't cover all the bases, but at least gives you some sort of starting point to help look at the vast amount of stones that are out there.

You can also run numbers through the HCA tool on this site to help you weed through things. It's a rejection tool, not a selection tool and you'll still need more info after you've located stones scoring around or under 2. Just like with GIA EX where there may be stones outside "ideal" boundaries that are pretty, there may be stones that don't score well that are pretty but you need to work with a vendor who can be your "eyes" and give you extra info.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca


On color- You have a nice budget. You know that your GF isn't wanting a larger size stone (ie- much over a carat) at this time. With that in mind, and not knowing how color sensitive she is, I'd stick with G/H/I. You're not going for size, so to me, there's no need to sacrifice in the "color" department, which is one place a lot of people will ease up in order to be able to get the size they want. I find J's a strange "in between" color. I've seen K and lower that I liked and I and above that I like, but J's just don't seem to be in one camp or the other to me and there isn't any real need for you to go there unless you want to. Color is more of a personal preference and choice, and you have to find your own tolerances.

If it were me, I'd suggest a good vendor like Good Old Gold or Whiteflash who can give you all the performance information you need (idealscope, ASET images) with really good upgrade policies for later on. Like I said before, people's tastes change and there's a lot of guys that post on here "my Gf is tiny and doesn't want anything big" but well, people don't stay the same size either. I had size 4.75-5 fingers in my 20's and though I am still not a large person, my fingers certainly aren't a size 5 any more and my tastes are entirely different. Just food for future thought.

I agree color is somewhat personal but he does not have a 10k budget. If she is not comfortable wearing such an expensive ring I see no reason why he has to pay it. And he wants a ring that he will be proud showing off and shell be comfortable wearing, so I do think a 1ct in a near colorless but modest J seems like a good compromise to fit both their wants, especially sense the OP had expressed her dissinterest in something too expensive.... I mean a frugal woman would probably appreciate you putting money wear you can see it instead of where you may not....but I will say, its a good idea to see one in person.

Actually- he did say he was comfortable spending up to 10K. The stone I posted was a couple $K less than that. He needs to decide what he wants both color wise and price wise. My personal take on it is a 1 ct is going to look like 1ct whether it's a J or an H or an I. Does the fact that it's a J make it less "fancy" than an H? No. It's still the same size (assuming both are equally well cut) and so neither is more "fancy" than the other. Having a stone thats a DEFGH does not make a diamond fancy (to me). Fancy (for me) involves the setting itself or possible a fancy shape like pear or something. Does he know her color preferences or have they looked in person at different colors? No. In those cases, it seems better err on the side of caution until we have more info. Whether he gets her a 1ct G, H, I or J in a simple setting, the only person who is going to know the cost is him. To all other outward appearances they would be the same. I just prefer not to tell people "a J is fine" unless it's something they WANT or something they've SEEN and make the decision for themselves, like we all have to do.

I did say he needs to see them in person. But to be fair most stones out in the real world at mall jewelry stores are probably the j range, so to think the average woman would be unhappy with it is a little bit of a stretch, sense that's a pretty common color range. Plus, he said though he is comfortable paying that, she is not comfortable wearing 10k, so unless he plans on lying to her about the cost, there's no reason to psy more than she wants.

And what I am saying about a j is that a frugal person will appreciate you saving money buy not going too unnecessarily high in color. And he doesn't think she is too into jewelry, so I think that means she may not appreciate a high color like a jewelry enthusiest might. I know I am frugel and if I knew my SO managed to get me a lovely ring and do it at a price point I feel comforteble I'd be happy. Because to a person who doesn't get spending too much on jewelry, she seems like a person to appreciate saving thousands.... but again I do say seeing them is a good idea.

 

[krede60]

I'm definitely using those numbers and the HCA tool for any searches from here on out.

@jmarshall - I can literally see what you're talking about. I wouldn't even guess those stones were different grades, let alone 2 grades apart.

@bastetcat - I definitely need to reconsider what I want from color. I hadn't considered I's or J's much at all because I wanted to play it safe in making sure the diamond looked white. Given that I'm going to use the advice to make sure I get a truly well cut stone, it might be better to sacrifice a little on color to not go up to my comfortable max budget. I can't know my girlfriend's preference ahead of time without spoiling the surprise, and honestly, with how little jewelry she wears, I doubt she has a preference in mind, but I'm trying to stay near 7-8k because I know the odds of her getting comfortable wearing an expensive ring are better the closer to 5k I am. I definitely want to consider options within my budget because I don't want to sacrifice too much in the other C's to get a great cut under that target price.

I can also pretty much assume she's going to ask what this cost at some point. (I certainly hope she's too giddy about the ring itself to ask for at least a few days). Also, my finances are somewhat of an open book to her at this point since she helped me figure out my taxes this past year.

@Niel - Thanks for the cheat sheet and the always useful info. Knowing most jewelry stores would have J color diamonds gives me a good comparison point, and you're absolutely right I need to see the diamonds with my own eyes and get a sense for what these different grades look like. I live near Philadelphia where there's an area called Jeweler's Row, and while I don't think I'd buy from those stores, a trip out there to look some diamonds and get a feel for what visible differences various grades have or don't have is necessary I think.

I am pretty sure so long as it looks just as pretty, she's going to be happier to hear it cost less (and there's no way I would or could keep that information from her if she asked). If I stuck by the old saying of 2 or 3 months salary for the ring, she'd probably refuse to wear it, even if she said yes.

 

[Niel]

^ with that last bit of information is why I think a lower near colorless diamond is the way to go. As a frugal* person myself, I get greater satisfaction knowing I got a beautiful being at a good price, more so than if I had spent more to get a color that I personally wouldn't have appreciated any more.



*cheap

 

[jmarshall]

@jmarshall - I can literally see what you're talking about. I wouldn't even guess those stones were different grades, let alone 2 grades apart.

I was really having a hard time deciding to go with a lower color to get the size that I wanted, I had two stones in mind that fit my budget. a 1.06 G VS1 (on the left) and a 1.20 I VVS1 (on the right). Then GOG sent me the above photos, and I went with the I color.