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Impressions on LG vs EG

momofive

momofive

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,056
Hi All,
I am over in Rocky Talk looking for a 3ct. EC with matching side stones for a 3 stone ring for our 40th Anniversary. I'm up in the $40-$50K range and I've seen every Jann Paul video out there and am thinking it might be worth a look. While I don't understand it all, I like what I've read about the "starter" they use for their roughs and their attention to detail and commitment to quality.

I am also open to other quality vendors as wel

I know there is a debate about LG over EG but I'm seeing more and more LG and if you can get beauty like Jann Paul White EC 2.0 for so much less $$, I think, you will quickly get over the LG vs. EG thing. Kind of like when you first get a larger upgrade and it seems so big and in about a week you are used to it.

I'd love your thoughts and also from some of the trade as to how they feel about the debate.
 

Matching pair of 2 ct MRB for 4ctw studs

Due to WF's offer of lab stones, I decided to take the plunge. I ordered a 1.5 IGI D, and then I noticed that WF did not cut these stones (I'm slow). But since I paid I wanted to see one that WF felt beautiful enough to offer. It was more of a 60-60 stone, but it was surprisingly (I will be...
www.pricescope.com

Mind clean

Has anyone who purchased a lab diamond for an engagement ring second guessing themselves? Feeling like it’s not authentic? I saw the most gorgeous 3 stone lab ring for 4500 and earth mined it would probably be around 30,000
www.pricescope.com
 
Hi, momofive!
Reach out to both JP and Jon at Distinctive Gem and try to set up a live stream meeting with them - with both EGD and LGD so that they can talk to you about both and allow you to see them, side by side.
Whiteflash and Brian Gavin may be able to do the same live stream meeting with you.
 
Thanks yssie. I know it's subjective. I'm a realist and if I know that LGD are considered real diamonds, just procured in a different way, I think I'll have no problem with that. I don't want to go higher with my EGD budget b/c I'm at my limit and now I'm thinking I can get a spectacular ring for 1/2 the price (and maybe get some studs to go with it!!)

I'm going to reach out to Jann Paul just to see what they recommend. I doubt I'd get an EGD from them at 3ct for my budget. I'm going back to look at more of their LG diamond videos.
 
I hear you. I think a lot of people are still figuring out what they think. For me, I had to go actually hold some lab stones to understand how I feel… And I discovered that my feelings aren’t entirely what I’d anticipated.

So if you’re in the same place, wondering how you’ll feel - I’d say definitely go “try on” a lab stone before you commit money. It doesn’t have to be precision cut - just the knowledge that it’s a lab diamond might give you enough to go on. A “love”/“nah”/“maybe, need more info” baseline - and talking with JP or another vendor could help with that third bucket…

I would also actually say… If you can, go see and touch a lab stone before you talk to any vendors. Talking to a vendor that you want to potentially buy from can be a higher-pressure situation. Not pressure to buy, but pressure to… Let me say, figure out what the vendor thinks and adopt those opinions as your own. It’s just another layer of opacity to have to mentally work through.
 
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Thank you. I will.
 
Thanks DejaWiz. I didn't see your post earlier! Yes, I've been trolling Distinctive Gem as well and will reach out. I think the idea of seeing a LGD side by side IRL is a good idea.
 
momofive said:
Thanks DejaWiz. I didn't see your post earlier! Yes, I've been trolling Distinctive Gem as well and will reach out. I think the idea of seeing a LGD side by side IRL is a good idea.
Click to expand...

That's what got my wife and I onboard with LGD: we saw a couple of each randomly placed in front of us and were asked to pick out the EGD vs the LGD. We bombed the test.
Zero difference in the optics between the two.

Read a great line about LGD a while back: "the lab grown diamond may not be millions or billions of years old, but the carbon atoms that make them are the same age as any other diamond."
 
Great statement. I think that's kind of how I feel. If the technology produces the same product AND makes it more affordable for everyone, especially someone who can't afford the same quality in a LG size in a nice size stone, why not??

I read posts from about a year ago talking about the price reduction in LGD. I'm not concerned about resale because I'm not buying for investment and most diamonds don't appreciate, but do you know where the market is at now in LGD?
 
I know people have strong feelings on the EG vs LG. I love Yssie's advice saying "go see them in person and see how you feel" which i think is great advice, as long as it's a place with decent cut labs. You want to make sure you feel a certain way about the fact that its a lab diamond, not because it's a badly cut diamond. I looked at earth grown vs lab grown and couldnt tell the difference.

I try to see it this way... Try to think of yourself in a bubble. You're on a deserted Island, just you, no friends, no family, no internet. Warm sun, waves in the background. You're in the woods. It's quiet, it's snowing, you're alone. You look at your hand. Do you see a beautiful sparkling diamond that takes your breath away, or do you see a 'fake'. Do you see something beautiful, or something cheap?

Eliminate the "societal pressure" of Debeers that you paid a lot of money and see how just YOU feel about it in a bubble. I literally walked my dog in the woods with the lab diamond in a ring holder and looked at it and wanted to see how *I* felt about it. I saw a beautiful diamond, and loved that I knew I paid less for what was (to me) the exact same thing.

I'm usually vocal about this debate. I don't see a 'worth' to diamonds. I dont think of them as valuable. They're not worth $25k TO ME. You know the saying "its worth what someone is willing to pay for it" - i was personally willing to pay $10,000 for a diamond. To me it's not worth more. I refuse to pay more. I'd do without. It's like anything, at some point, you look at the price tag and say "these people are out of their minds charging that!". Example: I saw a 1 carat moissanite on loupe troop listed for $5,000. That's crazy, right?! "We" as a whole don't think moissanite is 'worth it'. Pick any item, would you be willing to pay $15,000 for a handbag? How about $6,000? What about $2500...

It's easy with items that the 'majority' think are valuable, like diamonds, but I don't think it has to be a majority rule, I think each individual can decide what they think is valuable, and what they're willing to pay for it. Thats why I use my 'no internet, deserted island' analogy. We all have a line we draw somewhere on what we consider valuable. For me, having that money in my accounts has more 'value'. I love seeing my balance, so for me, it's more valuable, it's more satisfying, to see the dollars in my account than if I wore it on my hand every day.

I have changed my engagement ring five times in 5 years. No one has noticed. No one cares. I don't feel the need to explain it's (now) a lab diamond. My lab was almost the same price as my earth mined, just WAY better stats. Literally NO ONE in my real life has ever 'noticed' my ring or complimented it or asked about it. We just got married in May, even at my wedding, no one asked to see my ring.

So in your case, you can do the ring in earth grown, or pay less for bigger and or better diamonds and put the excess budget toward something else. I wouldn't feel the need to explain myself. To anyone. Like someone grabs your hand "OMG! I love your new ring!" Do you want to talk about money and say "I had a $50k budget and I could have gotten "I" color eye clean 2.75 carat S1 that faced up like a 3 carat but decided to go with lab and got 3.25 carat E color VVS1 instead" - do you think your coworker Jenny cares? I feel like people 'worry' (for lack of a better word) that family or friends will think something about their financial status. I guess because I am a CPA and have been doing people's taxes for almost 30 years, i know what everyone makes, I know how much money everyone has. I am continuously surprised at what people's actual net worths are vs what they 'display' as wealth.

On here we all stay in our areas, Lab grown, Earth grown. On here, people care. The 'general public' doesn't care. The general public doesn't know about stats. I haven't told my family or friends I switched my EG L color 2.25 to a LG G color 2.5, and used the additional money to buy another whole ring, like I need to 'confess something'. I don't feel the need to explain myself to anyone. I don't care what the people on the internet think. If someone grabbed my hand and said "OMG I love your diamond" which again, has never actually happened, I would just say "Thank you" - i wouldn't feel the need to say "Thanks! It's a lab diamond" but thats just me. Just like I wouldnt feel the need to say "Thanks! It's an old mine cut!" or "thanks, my setting is platinum" or "thanks, i bought it from Alex Parks" - no one cares. I'm not going to lie about it, but i dont feel the need to go out of my way to explain it either.

WOW, that was way longer than I intended. LOL
 
I think that there is already a lot of good advice here.

The one thing that I would say is that if you are going for lab grown, I would consider that the stone is probably not something you can easily sell. There does not to seem to be a good market for lab grown diamonds, second hand, other than at a very steep discount. Natural diamonds can be hard enough at times and labs even harder from my personal observations.

If you think you want to upgrade, I would get the upgrade policy in writing if they work with labs, because I would not count on the ability to sell it on the second hand market at any decent rate of return. That may not matter to you though. To me, if matters if I'm spending more than a set amount.
 
DejaWiz said:
Read a great line about LGD a while back: "the lab grown diamond may not be millions or billions of years old, but the carbon atoms that make them are the same age as any other diamond."
Click to expand...
:love:

@DejaWiz has been in the lab forum here pretty much since the beginning, I think! I haven’t - labs are newer in my world.

For me, I held a 3ct lab cushion, and it was beautiful, but it didn’t give me any butterflies. I remember thinking “{vendor} told me this was a lab stone. If {vendor} had told me this exact same diamond was a mined stone - I know my eyes wouldn’t see a whit of difference, but I’d feel differently about it”. The vendor thought I was a loony toon :lol:

It’s not logical. But then, I frequently make heart-and-gut-and-damn-the-brain decisions about jewellery. I buy pieces that are barely wearable, I’ve got a history of valuing origin and species and varietal over appearance. So… Same old, same old.

@Inked I loved your post. As an aside - Anabela Chan is a designer whose work I *adore*. She uses lab stones and alternative materials - I think of it as one of her bling philosophy hallmarks - and when (yeah, not if, when…) I buy from her I want whatever materials best represent her bling philosophy. I wouldn’t want mined diamonds in my Anabela Chan piece(s)!

If there’s one thing I’ve learnt over the years it’s that luxury is all about feelings, and you can’t ever talk yourself into or out of feelings. Whatever your feelings are, that’s what they are. But we can certainly have different feelings in different contexts!

I bought some large mined rose cut diamonds a few years ago. I was offered labs, but at that time I was adamantly anti-lab-in-all-contexts and prices were still pretty high. I do actually wish I hadn’t bought those stones - I wish I’d waited, and if I was buying them now I’d get labs. For this project labs would have been an eyeclean choice at a mind-clean pricepoint.
 
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Hi there! As someone who's deliberated long and hard over the past few months about whether to upgrade my engagement ring from a ~1ct mined to a bigger lab grown, here are some thoughts (and my personal reasons for going lab grown) -

1. For me, it comes down to the fact that lab grown and mined diamonds are simply the same end product with different origins that have different appeal. I'm a huge fan of all types of diamonds, but have noted that the marketing for natural diamonds seems largely focused on the symbolic, historical, and emotional reasons for buying them (which is fair for a luxury item). I'm an economist, and realize that a lot of the power of the mined diamond industry really comes down to supply and perceived (but not actual) scarcity. Take aluminum for example. Back in the 1800s, kings used to serve guests on their "extraordinarily lavish" aluminum, and members of the French court wore aluminum jewelry and buttons. It was even put at the top of the Washington Monument as a show of US power and prestige. It was a resource that was "rare but everywhere" - not scarce, but people hadn't figured out what to mass produce and industrialize it. Add in better technology and fast forward to today. Not a perfect analogy because diamonds still require precision cutting and artistry, but I do think diamonds are starting to have a moment like this. It will be interesting to see what the next years and decades bring.

2. I actually find lab diamonds to be incredibly cool. My dad was a physicist who developed and patented many types of lasers, and he used lab grown diamonds as semi-conductors for decades. As a kid, he used to teach me about how he used lab diamonds to change wavelengths in lasers (that would then do everything from treat tumors to etch high tech industrial materials), and I used to keep the diamonds blocks that didn't get used. Of course, they weren't well-cut like MRBs, but it's amazing to me that human ingenuity has hit a point where we're making jewelry-quality diamonds in a way that is more environmentally/socially sound and cost efficient than traditional mining.

3. I went to a jeweler who carried both and asked to see them side by side. I really, really couldn't tell the difference, which helped my decision. The jeweler said, "A diamond is a diamond, just like a baby is a baby whether made naturally or in vitro or otherwise..." (kind of an awkward analogy, but I got what he meant).

4. My husband and I had set a budget of around $25k to upgrade my ring (aiming for a ~2 carat ACA), and thanks to the wonderful folks on this forum, I just found a beautifully performing 2.69 carat D/VS1 LGD for $3k. We're going to put the difference towards home renovations, and couldn't be more pleased. We originally looked a couple of years ago but the price and quality of lab growns didn't seem to be as worth it. A few weeks ago, we checked back and felt much more comfortable - the current prices and quality available felt "mind clean" for us. We're not concerned about resale value because I plan to keep it forever, but we did want to make sure that we were 100% satisfied with what we got because we couldn't find a good trade-in/upgrade policy.

Just one person's thoughts - that turned out longer than intended! Good luck on your upgrade search!
 
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These sorts of questions are wedded to our personal experiences. One of my very best friends for the past 30 years was born in South Africa under apartheid, categorized as "coloured" under that system. She had up close experiences with the diamond mines, and saw fellow non-white friends being tragically affected by that industry. To this day, despite with her ultra high income, she will not own a diamond.

It was a bit difficult to tell her that I wanted to buy myself a diamond solitaire, but being the true friend that she is, she was happy for me to celebrate myself. The fact that my budget allowed for a lab diamond made it easier to tell her.

Now that I'm looking at small decagons and studs, however, I'm looking at EG. I do so with a heart and eyes wide open. It helps to know that none of the ppl close to me will judge me either way. And tbh, who knows what I'll do in the future as my journey into diamonds unfolds.

Sorting out the decision on a vibrational level is invisible, complex and vital. At these prices, we all want clean energy lines between us and our stone. Sending you tons of love & support, @momofive
 
elizat said:
I think that there is already a lot of good advice here.

The one thing that I would say is that if you are going for lab grown, I would consider that the stone is probably not something you can easily sell. There does not to seem to be a good market for lab grown diamonds, second hand, other than at a very steep discount. Natural diamonds can be hard enough at times and labs even harder from my personal observations.

If you think you want to upgrade, I would get the upgrade policy in writing if they work with labs, because I would not count on the ability to sell it on the second hand market at any decent rate of return. That may not matter to you though. To me, if matters if I'm spending more than a set amount.
Click to expand...

This is a great point re: resale. Whats interesting is I resold my earth diamonds because they were never exactly what i wanted. So i resold it because it wasn't actually what I wanted. I don't believe I would ever sell this because its exactly what i want, and because it was way less expensive, I paid less and it has less value.

Also, i read something interesting on here a long time ago, and forgive me because I dont remember who said it, and I may not exactly have it down, but something to the effect of: If you figure you can get 75% of the price back on your earth diamond, which is generous, so on a nice stats 2 carat 20K diamond you get $15k. You lost $5k. Well on your nice stats 2.5 carat $3000 lab diamond, if you get 50% back, $1500 on a sale, you only lost $1500. Even if you got nothing you only lost $3000.... and if you can show me where I can get a nice stats 2.5 carat lab diamond for under $1000... i'd like to buy it LOL
 
howlucky said:
Hi there! As someone who's deliberated long and hard over the past few months about whether to upgrade my engagement ring from a ~1ct mined to a bigger lab grown, here are some thoughts (and my personal reasons for going lab grown) -

1. For me, it comes down to the fact that lab grown and mined diamonds are simply the same end product with different origins that have different appeal. I'm a huge fan of all types of diamonds, but have noted that the marketing for natural diamonds seems largely focused on the symbolic, historical, and emotional reasons for buying them (which is fair for a luxury item). I'm an economist, and realize that a lot of the power of the mined diamond industry really comes down to supply and perceived (but not actual) scarcity. Take aluminum for example. Back in the 1800s, kings used to serve guests on their "extraordinarily lavish" aluminum, and members of the French court wore aluminum jewelry and buttons. It was even put at the top of the Washington Monument as a show of US power and prestige. It was a resource that was "rare but everywhere" - not scarce, but people hadn't figured out what to mass produce and industrialize it. Add in better technology and fast forward to today. Not a perfect analogy because diamonds still require precision cutting and artistry, but I do think diamonds are starting to have a moment like this. It will be interesting to see what the next years and decades bring.

2. I actually find lab diamonds to be incredibly cool. My dad was a physicist who developed and patented many types of lasers, and he used lab grown diamonds as semi-conductors for decades. As a kid, he used to teach me about how he used lab diamonds to change wavelengths in lasers (that would then do everything from treat tumors to etch high tech industrial materials), and I used to keep the diamonds blocks that didn't get used. Of course, they weren't well-cut like MRBs, but it's amazing to me that human ingenuity has hit a point where we're making jewelry-quality diamonds in a way that is more environmentally/socially sound and cost efficient than traditional mining.

3. I went to a jeweler who carried both and asked to see them side by side. I really, really couldn't tell the difference, which helped my decision. The jeweler said, "A diamond is a diamond, just like a baby is a baby whether made naturally or in vitro or otherwise..." (kind of an awkward analogy, but I got what he meant).

4. My husband and I had set a budget of around $25k to upgrade my ring (aiming for a ~2 carat ACA), and thanks to the wonderful folks on this forum, I just found a beautifully performing 2.69 carat D/VS1 LGD for $3k. We're going to put the difference towards home renovations, and couldn't be more pleased. We originally looked a couple of years ago but the price and quality of lab growns didn't seem to be as worth it. A few weeks ago, we checked back and felt much more comfortable - the current prices and quality available felt "mind clean" for us. We're not concerned about resale value because I plan to keep it forever, but we did want to make sure that we were 100% satisfied with what we got because we couldn't find a good trade-in/upgrade policy.

Just one person's thoughts - that turned out longer than intended! Good luck on your upgrade search!
Click to expand...

To me, this is why lab makes sense at times. If I am looking at modern cuts, and they look the same and perform the same, I am all for saving money. I would have picked the home reno and the $3k stone as well.

For old antique cuts, for me, lab grown isn't mind clean. I also am not into the super ideal modern cut earth grown old style stones either. I think those positions are consistent.

I am all for modern lab grown cuts, but for me, a lab grown old cut (or earth grown modern old cut style) isn't for me personally.
 
Wow! This topic is hot! I don't think I have a mindset problem, I'm pretty practical. I just wanted to make sure that eye for eye, when you look at it, you can't tell the difference. Now, I just have to make the decision. Thank you all for your input. I'll let you know what I decide and will probably be back on here for the process! In the end, as long as I'm happy with my purchase, I can't go wrong either way.
 
I had a set budget for my upgrade that I wasn't willing to go over. The natural diamond that I could get for that budget meant compromising on almost every C. I ended up spending tens of thousands less on a lab-grown that satisfied everything I was looking for. I bought it fully aware of potential lack of resale value, but I don't intend ever to sell it. I don't think of it as "lesser than" the natural stone I almost bought. I think of it as perfect for me in all the Cs and wholly mine as it was custom re-cut to my exact specifications. It's also an HPHT Type IIa, which was important to me as it is closest in appearance to a natural diamond.

I can't explain why, but I have preferred to stick with natural stones for things like bands and other smaller pieces of jewelry. Probably because the price difference is significantly less than in the five-figure range. But feelings don't have to make sense, even to yourself.
 
momofive said:
Wow! This topic is hot! I don't think I have a mindset problem, I'm pretty practical. I just wanted to make sure that eye for eye, when you look at it, you can't tell the difference. Now, I just have to make the decision. Thank you all for your input. I'll let you know what I decide and will probably be back on here for the process! In the end, as long as I'm happy with my purchase, I can't go wrong either way.
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You really can't tell the difference, @momofive! Not sure where you live, but I just had a wonderful buying experience with Frank Darling, and they have showrooms in NYC and SF. They carry both natural and lab grown, and they were happy to get lab growns in to hold for viewing without deposits and hoops to jump through. I normally can make it to NYC pretty easily but have been traveling for work, so they emailed me ASET/H&A images and videos.
 
Thank you. I love how passionate you all are about beautiful things!
 
momofive said:
Wow! This topic is hot! I don't think I have a mindset problem, I'm pretty practical. I just wanted to make sure that eye for eye, when you look at it, you can't tell the difference. Now, I just have to make the decision. Thank you all for your input. I'll let you know what I decide and will probably be back on here for the process! In the end, as long as I'm happy with my purchase, I can't go wrong either way.
Click to expand...

I look at it like this:

EGD - gift from the earth with the allure and mystique of up to billions of years old.

LGD - testament of human ingenuity, perseverance, and achievement.

Which one is more important will be subjective and very personal...and there is no wrong choice.
 
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I have both EG and LG diamonds. To be honest, my feeling are complicated.

EG diamonds represent something enduring, romantic, and special to me. Beautiful, bight, and sparkling, like the stars, but created deep within the earth under enormous pressure. They are billions of years old, and there's a certain energy to them because of that.

LGs represent something completely different to me. They represent innovation, technology, and cost effectiveness, as well as the ability to afford a diamond that's bigger with better stats.

They are all diamonds, and if chosen properly, will be beautiful. In the end, choose whichever feels best to you.

Edited to add that I just read the reply @DejaWiz wrote. He said it better.
 
I love both, slight preference for EGD for center stones, but love LGD when trying new cuts or colors.

Often we hear about people buying LGD because they want a bigger diamond but I love the stories on this thread about people who wanted better quality. Finding a great emerald in that size is awfully hard, and you have a nice budget, so if you don’t see one that you like, don’t compromise. Wait for a better EGD sometime in the future or get an awesome LGD now.
 
Thank you. I have all the time in the world. I thought I wouldn’t have a hard time with my budget but I was also starting with a 2.5 Ct. when I saw that size IRL I realized it would look smaller than my current 2.0 radiant with halo and I knew I wouldn’t be happy.
 
yssie said:
And I discovered that my feelings aren’t entirely what I’d anticipated.
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I was going to ask if you would share your feelings, reading through the thread I see you did so eloquently.
yssie said:
If there’s one thing I’ve learnt over the years it’s that luxury is all about feelings, and you can’t ever talk yourself into or out of feelings. Whatever your feelings are, that’s what they are. But we can certainly have different feelings in different contexts!
Click to expand...
THIS! I am greatly refreshed at the quality of the discussion in this thread. I know there is a great market for both EG and LG and I love seeing how calm and friendly this discussion is here among some of the best educated consumers on the planet.

Many years ago I had a line of CZ's cut in Thailand that were incredibly beautiful. The government there made it incredibly difficult for my cutter to keep employees, so he went into another field.

Two years ago, as I was closing down my office, I had a lab grown in for a client. It was cut to incredible proportions and was stunningly beautiful. Cut properly, an LG is going to be every bit as beautiful as an EG, and frankly, so much better than most of the drivel cut by weight driven cutters.

My new employer already deals in LG and we are working towards creating a line worthy of this forum. I so look towards joining the fray!
 
OK. I've decided to go with JP for my ring (and possibly a 1.5ct pair decagon studs). I don't have any issue with my mind. I'm comfortable with a finished product that is the same as EGD except for the process. I guess I am more practical and if someone compliments me, my response is, "Thank you!"

I can get a superb color, cut, clarity stone for about 1/3 what I was going to spend. I'll keep you apprised of how things are going. I'm not in a hurry. Good things come to those who wait!

Thank you all for helping with the decision!
 
So excited for you! JP has been so great with all their info for me. I'm also considering their lab studs.

I think @DRSAMURAI knows something about getting some fees/duties refunded.
 
Yes. I emailed and received a response back for a 3ct. as that weight wasn't on their price list. I could buy 2 three carat stones for my budget and still have some leftover. It made logical sense to me, plus I love their quality control. I know I'm paying for it, but I'll feel better.
 
momofive said:
Yes. I emailed and received a response back for a 3ct. as that weight wasn't on their price list. I could buy 2 three carat stones for my budget and still have some leftover. It made logical sense to me, plus I love their quality control. I know I'm paying for it, but I'll feel better.
Click to expand...

Love when a budget can stretch ... and maybe when you wrote 1.5ct stud you meant 3.0tcw?! :love:
 
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