Imitation

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:30:51 PM
Author: Harriet
I started this thread for two reasons: (1) so that Parrot Tulips can have her own day in the sun; and (2) to make the issue abstract so that there would be no personal attacks (or recriminations). I have been asked to answer my own questions, so here goes. Bear in mind that my answers do not apply to any designs that I hypothetically own.

How would you feel if someone copied your ring?
If it were my engagement ring, nothing. The setting is out of a catalogue. If it were a unique ring, I would be sick (for how long, I have no idea). Then, I would attempt to be a rational creature: Why did I post images in the public domain?; is my ring even sui generis?; would I even encounter the wearer on a regular basis?

How should you feel if someone copied your ring?
Like the rational creature I just described. However, I cannot always control my initial reaction, try as I may.

May I please go back to Coloured Stones?

Sure Harriet, only if you buy more stone and do more projects so we can all imitate them!

J/K!

Seriously though, I think yours is an honest answer. And I think many of us would feel the same way if we thought we had a unique ring. But I do think that is where ego comes into play because really, whose ring is really *that* original? It''s pretty small real estate that a ring covers to do something both unique and droolworthy.

I do hope SG''s reaction was a knee jerk one and not an indication of her true character. Of course, even in saying that, we are all going on hearsay and innuendo because she herself is not posting, and Pandora (who opened the box) is opting to say no more on the matter (which is probably wise.)

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:29:02 PM
Author: ericad
Not to beat a dead horse, but I just so happened upon a singlestone ring (vintage, not a repro) in my photo archive (one which we were thinking of having singlestone reproduce for us) because it struck me as being similar to SG''s ring. I just thought I''d post it to illustrate my point that, while the OP''s intention was to repro SG''s specific setting, it''s not an uncommon vintage style and it''s very likely that others even more similar to her setting exist in antique shops around the world.

Wow, that''s interesting and yes, I totally see SG''s ring in that one.

 

[Gayletmom]

To all of you here, from a newbie point of view, this forum is one terrific place! I find all of you incredibly supportive, helpful and just kind. I have been browsing here (and copying lots of pictures-on topic) and have come across hundreds, maybe thousands of positive, complimentary, upbeat comments on various rings. So many of you always find something nice to say every time a new bauble is posted. It''s really a kind and lovely place.

Anyway, I am sure that the incident on Rocky Talk is upsetting to many but this, too, shall pass. Let''s not loose sight of what a great community we have here.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:41:47 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Sure Harriet, only if you buy more stone and do more projects so we can all imitate them!

J/K!

Seriously though, I think yours is an honest answer. And I think many of us would feel the same way if we thought we had a unique ring. But I do think that is where ego comes into play because really, whose ring is really *that* original? It''s pretty small real estate that a ring covers to do something both unique and droolworthy.

I do hope SG''s reaction was a knee jerk one and not an indication of her true character. Of course, even in saying that, we are all going on hearsay and innuendo because she herself is not posting, and Pandora (who opened the box) is opting to say no more on the matter (which is probably wise.)

Har! Good one.

Ok, back on topic.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 1/7/2009 11:15:00 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/7/2009 10:03:58 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 1/7/2009 9:43:03 AM
Author: Pandora II
I just think it''s a little sad that people who own unique/custom/antique pieces may well think twice about posting them in detail in future.

Since you feel free to discuss what the OP should & should not have done ... I''ll say that I think it was in very poor taste to crash that woman''s thread on behalf of anyone. And I think its ''a little sad'' that someone would avail themselves of the assistance, support and positive aspects of PS when it was convenient for *them* only to later balk at being generous & actively diminish the positive feelings of someone who seemed to have no ill will at all ON THEIR OWN THREAD. That is, if she asked you to post. If you posted about her feelings without her permission, I''ll stand corrected.

Change has come to one clique. Indeed.

How many people can I ditto on this thread?

So, let me get this straight. It''s OK to post your ring and have countless people say ''I LOVE YOUR RING!'' and stroke your ego, but it''s not OK for anyone to get inspiration from it? Give me a bloody break. This has been unbelievably petty...and I''m using the nicest word I can find.

I was totally disgusted that PT''s thread was even crashed to let SG''s feelings be known.

I would like to think that PSers are as beautiful inside as the rings they wear. Perhaps not in all cases.

As many said, it wouldn''t be unreasonable for to be a bit miffed if someone IRL copied your design exactly, especially if it was unique. But on the Internet? On a jewelry forum. Holy sh*t.

Alj, I love that you can still be you. So true what you said. How many people copied Mara''s ring, to her delight and her assistance with the project? How many people here have been happy to help others find inspiration? Give me your chainsaw woman.

And Coati, just a shout out to you for being so gracious about your ring, which has been one of the most unique I''ve seen on here in a while. I love it...it''s hands down my favorite ring and I dream someday about asking if you don''t mind if I use it for inspiration! But it will always be first and foremost a Coati ring and a tribute to your fantastic taste.

Ditto, TravelingGal!

 

[Rhea]

I know that we''ll never find out, but I do wonder how many people on PS have saved the original ring to their computer, how many people on the internet have saved the original ring to another forum or blog, and how many people have copied the ring that we''ve never heard about?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM
Author: risingsun
SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:45:53 PM
Author: Addy
I know that we''ll never find out, but I do wonder how many people on PS have saved the original ring to their computer, how many people on the internet have saved the original ring to another forum or blog, and how many people have copied the ring that we''ve never heard about?

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Circe]

In my initial SMTR post, another poster fell in love with my ring and asked for profile shots, close-ups, etc. because she had a similarly sized stone and wanted to talk to her jeweler about possibly recreating it. I was tickled pink!

Do I have the world''s only fishtail-prongs-with-baguette combo? Hell, no. But I do think I have one of the prettiest in terms of proportions, etc. (insert modesty here). So, the idea of more pretty in the world ... hm, good or bad? Definitely good. I think it''s one of those joy shared is joy cubed equations.

As so many posters above have pointed out, there is nothing new under the sun. Nothing. "Unique" is a combination of factors, not a set point - to stick with the example at hand, "unique" isn''t a ring that no one else has, because someone else can always get that design, through synchronicity or deliberate imitation. "Unique" is the ring with the band you choose to set it off according to your own taste, coupled with the rest of the package that makes it your ring. It''s the house that Jack built, style-wise. If I was all motivational-speakery, I''d do one of those "i-in-team" things (you see where I''m going), but then I''d throw up a little, and no one would be happy.

Surfgirl''s been a wonderful poster and a joy in sharing her pieces with us: I hope this doesn''t put her off the site. Commensurately, I hope Parrot Tulips sticks around. If you''re reading, hi, guys ....

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:47:47 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM
Author: risingsun
SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

Kind of - do you know?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:39:50 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 1/7/2009 1:30:51 PM
Author: Harriet
I started this thread for two reasons: (1) so that Parrot Tulips can have her own day in the sun; and (2) to make the issue abstract so that there would be no personal attacks (or recriminations). I have been asked to answer my own questions, so here goes. Bear in mind that my answers do not apply to any designs that I hypothetically own.

How would you feel if someone copied your ring?
If it were my engagement ring, nothing. The setting is out of a catalogue. If it were a unique ring, I would be sick (for how long, I have no idea). Then, I would attempt to be a rational creature: Why did I post images in the public domain?; is my ring even sui generis?; would I even encounter the wearer on a regular basis?

How should you feel if someone copied your ring?
Like the rational creature I just described. However, I cannot always control my initial reaction, try as I may.

May I please go back to my sick bed? It''s been 6 freaking days already.

Feel better miss!

One of a kind.

Thanks!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:41:47 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Sure Harriet, only if you buy more stone and do more projects so we can all imitate them!

J/K!

Seriously though, I think yours is an honest answer. And I think many of us would feel the same way if we thought we had a unique ring. But I do think that is where ego comes into play because really, whose ring is really *that* original? It''s pretty small real estate that a ring covers to do something both unique and droolworthy.

I do hope SG''s reaction was a knee jerk one and not an indication of her true character. Of course, even in saying that, we are all going on hearsay and innuendo because she herself is not posting, and Pandora (who opened the box) is opting to say no more on the matter (which is probably wise.)

If I survive this darn whatchamacallit, I do have something to drop off at Leon''s.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:49:25 PM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 1/7/2009 1:47:47 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM

Author: risingsun

SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

Kind of - do you know?

No, I would not want to know and I don''t think it should be posted. Why take the joy out of PT''s ring. It would be even more hurtful to her, if the comments were negative.

 

[CrookedRock]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:45:53 PM
Author: Addy
I know that we''ll never find out, but I do wonder how many people on PS have saved the original ring to their computer, how many people on the internet have saved the original ring to another forum or blog, and how many people have copied the ring that we''ve never heard about?

That''s exactly the point. There are so many people who browse this site and never post. Just look at the box that tells you how many people are lurking... It''s usually quite a few hundred.
I haven''t seen anyone start a thread about recreating my ring, but there have been calls on it. Bottom line, if you post on here and someone copies a piece of yours, or parts of it, well that''s what it''s all about. My only annoyance would be if the creator (if in fact the ring was designed by that person) was not given credit.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:45:53 PM
Author: Addy
I know that we''ll never find out, but I do wonder how many people on PS have saved the original ring to their computer, how many people on the internet have saved the original ring to another forum or blog, and how many people have copied the ring that we''ve never heard about?

More than we''ll know Addy, that is for sure.

I''m sure many will remember that weird site that Musey found where her ring was reposted, as well as many other PSers. Flattering, but also disconcerting for many (more because of the way they were posted).

People post pics here for many reasons. Often, to thank the community for their help and share the results. I would also think that people also post their rings to receive compliments and feel good when they get them - hitting F5 F5 F5 to read more more MORE! (Nope, I''ve never done that...heee). But if you are going to post on PS to have others swoon over your ring, I think you have to know the pics are in public domain and can be used and sometimes abused. If indeed the SG''s ring thread has been deleted (and I haven''t checked), SG is fortunate we have admins that will do the service. Many times, once you post on the web, you''re SOL.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:49:27 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 1/7/2009 1:39:50 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 1/7/2009 1:30:51 PM
Author: Harriet
I started this thread for two reasons: (1) so that Parrot Tulips can have her own day in the sun; and (2) to make the issue abstract so that there would be no personal attacks (or recriminations). I have been asked to answer my own questions, so here goes. Bear in mind that my answers do not apply to any designs that I hypothetically own.

How would you feel if someone copied your ring?
If it were my engagement ring, nothing. The setting is out of a catalogue. If it were a unique ring, I would be sick (for how long, I have no idea). Then, I would attempt to be a rational creature: Why did I post images in the public domain?; is my ring even sui generis?; would I even encounter the wearer on a regular basis?

How should you feel if someone copied your ring?
Like the rational creature I just described. However, I cannot always control my initial reaction, try as I may.

May I please go back to my sick bed? It''s been 6 freaking days already.

Feel better miss!

One of a kind.

Thanks!

Fank you. I feel so much shmarter now.

And you''re welcome.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:52:14 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 1/7/2009 1:41:47 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Sure Harriet, only if you buy more stone and do more projects so we can all imitate them!

J/K!

Seriously though, I think yours is an honest answer. And I think many of us would feel the same way if we thought we had a unique ring. But I do think that is where ego comes into play because really, whose ring is really *that* original? It''s pretty small real estate that a ring covers to do something both unique and droolworthy.

I do hope SG''s reaction was a knee jerk one and not an indication of her true character. Of course, even in saying that, we are all going on hearsay and innuendo because she herself is not posting, and Pandora (who opened the box) is opting to say no more on the matter (which is probably wise.)

If I survive this darn whatchamacallit, I do have something to drop off at Leon''s.

Cool! I''ll have my eager fingers on Ctrl+V once you post the pics!!

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 1/7/2009 9:43:03 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 1/7/2009 4:18:22 AM
Author: rainwood
I can see both sides of this issue. I understand someone admiring a ring and wanting one like it. I can also understand someone buying an antique ring (one that many people on PS have admired and said they've never seen one like it) being dismayed that someone copied it. Yes, posting photographs on PS make it easy for someone to copy a particular piece, but most women post their engagement rings in a cloud of excitement and don't stop to think that they've given someone a roadmap to do so. So I understand both PT's excitement and SG's dismay, and condemn neither.

And if posting a photo of a ring is considered by most to be an a-okay to copy it, then SG's decision to have her SMTR thread removed is exactly what she should do if she doesn't want it copied further.

Totally agree.

Since the OP in the other thread specifically made a point of apologising for copying the ring (other than proportions in every tiny detail) which actively sought a response (IMHO) - an apology doesn't mean that by default the other should be all happy about it and I think the original's owner has a right to feel that well actually they're not too thrilled and for that feeling to be expressed. Otherwise it is taking it as read that they are fine with the situation.

Engagement rings are very sentimental and feelings arise that wouldn't over more mundane items. Sometimes when you are emotionally involved in something it is easier not to enter into a discussion at that time. Hence why I posted.

I think if the OP had just posted her ring without all the hoo haa about who's it was copied from etc then it would have been less hurtful and upsetting to the original's owner.

This is the last I will say on this.

I just think it's a little sad that people who own unique/custom/antique pieces may well think twice about posting them in detail in future.

I have to say I arduously disagree.

When PT *THANKED* SG for the inspiration and and said "I'm sorry for being a copycat", I read that as merely an acknowledgement of the common-courtesy variety. Not for even one New York minute did I believe PT actually even thought SG would actually BE truly upset; if she had, I'm sure she wouldn't have posted the ring at all.

As far as "copying every tiny detail" (which you've expressly pointed out twice now), I'd like to know how you can ascertain that from the SINGLE VIEW photo she posted?? For all we know, she could have dragon heads engraved on the sides of the shank! (I don't really believe this, but you get my drift just the same.)

I emphatically disagree that her dismay had to be expressed at all. First, it's DONE - there's nothing to condone or not. It doesn't matter to me if she condones it or not, to be honest. Second, if the root issue is not wanting replicas of her ring made, that's easily accomplished by asking admin to remove the *photos* of her rings from the various threads. I personally it was over the top to remove entire threads over it, but that's just my opinion.

Third....and this is the one that has me seething on this......if she couldn't contain her urge to express her disappointment to the community, there were far more mature and less hurtful ways to do so. It should have come from HER, not from someone else. Also, she could have started her own thread in Hangout sharing her disappointment that her ring had been copied.

I know, Pandora, that you meant well and meant to support your friend, and I have great respect for you on PS as a whole, but the post made in PT's thread smacked of the same clique-ishness that I recall in high school. "Sally's VERY devastated about it, and I just thought you all should know". Hey, if Sally's that disturbed and she's an adult, she should be able to express her own disappointment and to do it in the appropriate venue.

I find it completely ironic how many people have posted into PT's thread asking her to come back and post more pictures......does anyone seriously think she will do that NOW? Of course not - can you imagine the potential backlash then? "SG took the time to remove all pictures of her ring, and now PT is completely defeating that by posting 68 views of her ring with its exact same every little detail! It's like another slap in the face to SG".

Frankly, I don't blame that gal for not posting another single capital letter. I hope she does come back, but I would fully understand why she might choose not to.

I will agree it was an appropriate decision for SG to ask for her photos to be removed; that is absolutely her prerogative if she is that bothered. I don't think that action was out of line, but I think the way this whole thing was handled is petty and haughty.

I cannot relate to being devastated over someone having the same ring design, and I hope I never will understand it. I understanding about wanting a ring that is different from the standard and perhaps expresses the wearer's personality; that was part of my reason for going custom. I just don't see how that need translates into hoarding something and thinking that it will somehow be less special if anyone else wears a similar ring. Is it not special enough to know that you own the original? I guess not.

You are right about one thing, though....engagement rings are very sentimental pieces. It's too bad that very thought wasn't foremost in your mind at the time you posted in PT's thread about her engagement ring; maybe you would have rethought the choice to pee in her proverbial Cheerios and to take away her enjoyment of her ring. I wonder why weren't her feelings just as important?

I don't think it's a even a little sad if this causes the scant handful of folks who do take offense to refrain from posting their photos going forward. The vibe of Pricescope is to share and enjoy each other's pieces, and if those who aren't comfortable with that vibe choose not to post photos, that's probably best for all involved. At least no one else's feelings will be hurt.

 

[CrookedRock]

Allison, Bravo to everything you said! No one could have said it better. And thank you for putting your honest opinion out there, it needed to be heard!

 

[swingirl]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:52:14 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 1/7/2009 1:41:47 PM

Author: TravelingGal


Sure Harriet, only if you buy more stone and do more projects so we can all imitate them!

J/K!


Seriously though, I think yours is an honest answer. And I think many of us would feel the same way if we thought we had a unique ring. But I do think that is where ego comes into play because really, whose ring is really *that* original? It''s pretty small real estate that a ring covers to do something both unique and droolworthy.


I do hope SG''s reaction was a knee jerk one and not an indication of her true character. Of course, even in saying that, we are all going on hearsay and innuendo because she herself is not posting, and Pandora (who opened the box) is opting to say no more on the matter (which is probably wise.)

If I survive this darn whatchamacallit, I do have something to drop off at Leon''s.

Watch out, Harriet, I''ll be making that call!!! Now go back to sleep, everything''s gonna be okay.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 2:00:58 PM
Author: CrookedRock
Allison, Bravo to everything you said! No one could have said it better. And thank you for putting your honest opinion out there, it needed to be heard!

That wasn't Allison...it was Alj.

(with da chainsaw.)

 

[CrookedRock]

Date: 1/7/2009 2:02:30 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/7/2009 2:00:58 PM
Author: CrookedRock
Allison, Bravo to everything you said! No one could have said it better. And thank you for putting your honest opinion out there, it needed to be heard!

That wasn't Alison...it was Alj.

(with da chainsaw.)

LOL... Well then I

Alj!

And I just checked and I cannot really believe SG's thread was pulled! Unbelievable, is the nicest way I can put it. I only hope that PT comes back and posts a thousand pics!!!

ETA: PT came back to her thread with the promise of more pics!

 

[princesss]

Alj - (not going to quote since it''s so long)

As for the people going and commenting now, since I''m one of the people that did that, I just wanted to throw my $.02 in here about it.

I doubt she''ll come back. I''m disappointed about that, definitely. But on the off chance she does come back, I hope she reads them and sees that there are people who don''t care about the drama, and want to see more of her lovely ring. If I was her, I wouldn''t want to come back. But if I did, it would mean a lot to me to see that there were people that were excited for me. So I wanted to let her know that I love her ring, and would love to see more photos if she ever feels like showing them. But if she feels like giving this community a certain finger and never coming back, I''d understand.

 

[snlee]

Alj, very well said! A big DITTO to everything you have said!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:49:25 PM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 1/7/2009 1:47:47 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM
Author: risingsun
SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

Kind of - do you know?

my lips are SEAL.

 

[Rhea]

Date: 1/7/2009 1:55:51 PM
Author: Allison D.

You are right about one thing, though....engagement rings are very sentimental pieces. It''s too bad that very thought wasn''t foremost in your mind at the time you posted in PT''s thread about her engagement ring; maybe you would have rethought the choice to pee in her proverbial Cheerios and to take away her enjoyment of her ring. I wonder why weren''t her feelings just as important?

This is what makes me sad. My engagement ring buying experience was not a good one at all. The four years between buying it and now have only slightly blunted the edges of those vivid memories. I hope that PT doesn''t feel the same thing, the same disappointment and hurt when looking at her ring. I''d be in absolute tears if I were PT. Her engagement and memories should be just as happy as those expressed by SG in her original thread. I hope they are.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/7/2009 2:11:32 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 1:49:25 PM

Author: vespergirl

Date: 1/7/2009 1:47:47 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM

Author: risingsun

SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

Kind of - do you know?

my lips are SEAL.

Good DF and please keep them that way, or this Suppa Granny is going to come and get ya!!! We don''t want anymore trouble stirred up!!!

 

[decodelighted]

Ditto to Ajd''s entire post but specifically this part ....

Date: 1/7/2009 1:55:51 PM
Author: Allison D.
You are right about one thing, though....engagement rings are very sentimental pieces. It''s too bad that very thought wasn''t foremost in your mind at the time you posted in PT''s thread about her engagement ring; maybe you would have rethought the choice to pee in her proverbial Cheerios and to take away her enjoyment of her ring. I wonder why weren''t her feelings just as important?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/7/2009 2:15:05 PM
Author: Linda W

Date: 1/7/2009 2:11:32 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 1:49:25 PM

Author: vespergirl

Date: 1/7/2009 1:47:47 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/7/2009 12:45:38 PM

Author: risingsun

SG has always been able to speak for herself. I don''t understand why Pandora found it necessary to post on PT''s thread. I do not think it was either appropriate or helpful to do so. I hope that PT returns to PS and that SG makes her own feelings known without using an intermediary. The comments were, evidently, hurtful to PT and that isn''t--or shouldn''t--be the way we treat each other.

you really wanna to hear what SG said about this imitation ?

Kind of - do you know?

my lips are SEAL.

Good DF and please keep them that way, or this Suppa Granny is going to come and get ya!!! We don''t want anymore trouble stirred up!!!

Smack him anyway Linda...I''m pretty sure DF likes it.

And DF, are you sure you don''t mean "barking like a seal?"

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

Very well said, Allison...