Imitation
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coda72
Brilliant_Rock
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Boy I am out of the loop I guess. I didn''t even recognize the ring someone imitated until the person''s name was mentioned. But ring designs aren''t critical to me. I have a ring that probably no one would copy, since 99% of the people here think square and round side shapes shouldn''t be paired together. Wow, I have a unique piece, maybe I should copyright it!
In all seriousness, I am going through the arduous process of having the logo for my business trademarked. Now my business is not big or that profitable today, but I hope someday it will be. So, I went to the trouble of getting the logo trademarked. If someone decided to use my logo to further their own ends, I would be pretty upset. But if I didn''t trademark it, I would have no leg to stand on as far as being upset or going after the person who used it.
So, the way I feel is this, unless you protect what you believe to be a unique design, you have no reason to be upset. Especially if you post many pictures of your piece of jewelry from many angles allowing easy replication.
In all seriousness, I am going through the arduous process of having the logo for my business trademarked. Now my business is not big or that profitable today, but I hope someday it will be. So, I went to the trouble of getting the logo trademarked. If someone decided to use my logo to further their own ends, I would be pretty upset. But if I didn''t trademark it, I would have no leg to stand on as far as being upset or going after the person who used it.
So, the way I feel is this, unless you protect what you believe to be a unique design, you have no reason to be upset. Especially if you post many pictures of your piece of jewelry from many angles allowing easy replication.
CrookedRock
Brilliant_Rock
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I couldn''t agree with everything Allison D. has said more. I was so upset for PT that her thread was overshadowed. It was done to me as well and I know how that can turn someone off from PS, it did for me. I am glad that it was stopped, and this thread was started, and I really hope the damage hasn''t been done.
Ironically, for me my thread kinda changed the way I looked at my ring. I worked very hard to design something that was completely my own. Had someone copied it right off the bat, I would have been upset. A week or so ago I saw a thread that had almost an exact replica of my ring with a little variation. For about .5 secs I felt a twinge of something... bitterness maybe. But then I realized that it is a compliment that someone would like, let alone purchase something that you have. (Note: that was not the case with this particular ring, it was not copied, another vendor sells something similar.) Ultimately, I am happy for that poster. I know the joy I get from looking at my ring and admiring its beauty... Everyone deserves that!
As far as the ring that started this discussion... Well it''s beautiful. PT did nothing wrong, nor did Ari. That ring was not designed by SG therefore it is not her place to say if it can be remade or not. If I had choosen to put a patent on my ring and then it was remade, well then I have a right say and do something... That''s not the case here. There is no reason why 2 women cannot have the same beautiful ring and enjoy it.
**Sidenote: I have been speaking with Mark at ERD working on antoher project. In passing he mentioned to me that every now and then there a comes a ring that grabs all sort of attention. Apparently mine did that for a few of his customers bc he told me he had been contacted by multiple people to see if it could be recreated. I was on cloud nine that day. I couldn''t have been more flattered!
Ironically, for me my thread kinda changed the way I looked at my ring. I worked very hard to design something that was completely my own. Had someone copied it right off the bat, I would have been upset. A week or so ago I saw a thread that had almost an exact replica of my ring with a little variation. For about .5 secs I felt a twinge of something... bitterness maybe. But then I realized that it is a compliment that someone would like, let alone purchase something that you have. (Note: that was not the case with this particular ring, it was not copied, another vendor sells something similar.) Ultimately, I am happy for that poster. I know the joy I get from looking at my ring and admiring its beauty... Everyone deserves that!
As far as the ring that started this discussion... Well it''s beautiful. PT did nothing wrong, nor did Ari. That ring was not designed by SG therefore it is not her place to say if it can be remade or not. If I had choosen to put a patent on my ring and then it was remade, well then I have a right say and do something... That''s not the case here. There is no reason why 2 women cannot have the same beautiful ring and enjoy it.
**Sidenote: I have been speaking with Mark at ERD working on antoher project. In passing he mentioned to me that every now and then there a comes a ring that grabs all sort of attention. Apparently mine did that for a few of his customers bc he told me he had been contacted by multiple people to see if it could be recreated. I was on cloud nine that day. I couldn''t have been more flattered!
coatimundi_org
Ideal_Rock
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Skippy123
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CrookedRock
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Thanks a ton Skippy! It posters like you that I miss a ton. I''m not sure I''ll post pieces anymore after the last fiasco, but I''m slowly starting to lurk and post, and it''s good to be back a lil. Happy New Year!Date: 1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM
Author: Skippy123
CR, you have a gorgeous ring and I look forward to see what you have made by Mark and please post it when done.
Skippy123
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Ah, thanks,I like you too and Happy New Year to you too and yes, please stick around!!!Date: 1/7/2009 10:41:58 AM
Author: CrookedRock
Thanks a ton Skippy! It posters like you that I miss a ton. I'm not sure I'll post pieces anymore after the last fiasco, but I'm slowly starting to lurk and post, and it's good to be back a lil. Happy New Year!Date: 1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM
Author: Skippy123
CR, you have a gorgeous ring and I look forward to see what you have made by Mark and please post it when done.
Ellen
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Aw, don't let anybody keep you from posting pics. Seriously.Date: 1/7/2009 10:41:58 AM
Author: CrookedRock
Thanks a ton Skippy! It posters like you that I miss a ton. I'm not sure I'll post pieces anymore after the last fiasco, but I'm slowly starting to lurk and post, and it's good to be back a lil. Happy New Year!Date: 1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM
Author: Skippy123
CR, you have a gorgeous ring and I look forward to see what you have made by Mark and please post it when done.
Besides, I wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
coatimundi_org
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 1/7/2009 10:49:24 AM
Author: Ellen
Aw, don''t let anybody keep you from posting pics. Seriously.Date: 1/7/2009 10:41:58 AM
Author: CrookedRock
Thanks a ton Skippy! It posters like you that I miss a ton. I''m not sure I''ll post pieces anymore after the last fiasco, but I''m slowly starting to lurk and post, and it''s good to be back a lil. Happy New Year!Date: 1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM
Author: Skippy123
CR, you have a gorgeous ring and I look forward to see what you have made by Mark and please post it when done.
Besides, I wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
I do too CR! I adore your cushion!
..and I totally understand your .5 sec initial twinge at the thought of someone copying, because it was your design--very different from the vintage ring in this thread. In any case, I''m like you--in the end, very flattered.
Kaleigh
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TravelingGal
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How many people can I ditto on this thread?
So, let me get this straight. It''s OK to post your ring and have countless people say "I LOVE YOUR RING!" and stroke your ego, but it''s not OK for anyone to get inspiration from it? Give me a bloody break. This has been unbelievably petty...and I''m using the nicest word I can find.
I was totally disgusted that PT''s thread was even crashed to let SG''s feelings be known.
I would like to think that PSers are as beautiful inside as the rings they wear. Perhaps not in all cases.
As many said, it wouldn''t be unreasonable for to be a bit miffed if someone IRL copied your design exactly, especially if it was unique. But on the Internet? On a jewelry forum. Holy sh*t.
Alj, I love that you can still be you. So true what you said. How many people copied Mara''s ring, to her delight and her assistance with the project? How many people here have been happy to help others find inspiration? Give me your chainsaw woman.
And Coati, just a shout out to you for being so gracious about your ring, which has been one of the most unique I''ve seen on here in a while. I love it...it''s hands down my favorite ring and I dream someday about asking if you don''t mind if I use it for inspiration! But it will always be first and foremost a Coati ring and a tribute to your fantastic taste.
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Date: 1/7/2009 1:17:10 AM
Author: Allison D.
I have to say I believe this is the first day I''ve truly missed my chainsaw since retiring it nearly a year ago.
That said, I''m going to speak from my heart.
I wouldn''t have enough fingers on my own hands to tick off the COUNTLESS number of posters over the years who came to Pricescope, fell in love with ''Mara''s ring'' and modeled their set(s) after hers. It would take a full village''s worth of hands to even come close. At that time, no one else on Pricescope had a set of rings like hers. (Her ring, by the way, wasn''t her own design either but inspired by the ring her local jeweler''s wife wore.) I don''t think it ever would have occurred to her to become upset with another poster for copying ''her'' ring.....thank God. That''s just not what Mara was about, and it''s not what Pricescope has been about during these many years either.
When I finally commissioned my halo pendant (which itself was partially inspired by a Ritani piece I''d seen), a ton of folks commented that they''d love to own a pendant like that. I was beyond flattered. When Lisa decided to look into having one made, she actually got in touch with me to ask if I''d mind. I couldn''t believe she even felt she had to ask; it was a nice courtesy on her part, but totally unnecessary. I couldn''t imagine being offended by such a request; in fact, I encouraged her to do so by sending my pendant to her chosen jeweler to help make it happen!
In Belle''s case, she DID actually create her own unique design in collaboration with Irina.....and that was NO easy feat. There isn''t much in the jewelry business that hasn''t been tried before, and yet they settled on an arrangement the likes of which no one had ever seen before. It never even occurred to me that Belle would be anything less than completely gracious about others'' interest in that pendant, and she did not disappoint. I can''t imagine it would have ever crossed her mind to deny someone else the opportunity to enjoy the design as well.
ETA: I''ve seen multiple owners of the Bellerina pendant since then, and do you know who I think of every time I see it? Yep....Belle. It''s no less hers for having shared it.
The copyright argument is a red herring; the ring wasn''t designed by the owner. Further, SS as the jeweler doesn''t have a shred of obligation to call the ring owner. She didn''t create the design she wears and she doesn''t have ''veto'' power over his business just because she''s a client/fan. As others have pointed out, he likely didn''t even conceive that it could be . I know it wouldn''t occur to me, and given the several responses in this thread, that assumption would be correct most of the time.
This site has always been about SHARING....sharing knowledge, sharing ideas, sharing information, and yes.....sharing inspiration. I cannot even begin to understand how anyone could find offense or injury because some other random individual in the world was wearing a similar piece of jewelry....especially when the two are unlikely to cross paths in real life! I don''t see how denying someone else the same pleasure I''d had (finding a given design that spoke to me) would make me feel good; in fact, I''m quite certain I''d feel terrible.
I''m disheartened, dismayed, outraged and ashamed at the disservice that was done to the poor poster today who came here to share her excitement over her ring.
Thank you for this thoughtful post! You have said everything that I wished to say. The only thing I''ll add is that Ari is in the business of antiques and ANTIQUE REPRODUCTIONS. Reproducing vintage settings is a major piece of his business. All repros are based on an original somewhere, owned and worn by someone. Even jewelery designers such as T&Co and Harry Winston have reproduced antique pieces.
Why does PS have a SMTR forum? Why an e-ring folder/eye candy thread? I''m certain the purpose isn''t so that consumers can peruse the hundreds of photos in order to determine what is already owned by someone and therefore off limits to them. It''s for INSPIRATION. It''s so that we can search and find a style that sings to us - to get us away from the limited selection of B&M stores and to open up a world of ideas and design possibilities. And honestly - even if 100 PS''ers copy SG''s setting, she will NEVER run into a person with the same ring, nor will anyone she knows.
In my opinion Ari had no obligation to ask permission to copy a vintage ring simply because he happened to know the owner. What if he didn''t know SG and the client simply brought him photos of an anonymous estate setting to copy? What if he had asked SG and she said no? The client would have taken her business elsewhere and a replica would still have been made and posted on PS.
It has already been said, but when we put our pieces on a public forum dedicated to jewelry, able to be viewed by millions of people worldwide, I think it''s safe to assume that we have given unspoken permission for people to use our images. If you want to keep a "one of a kind" (I assume it''s a unique vintage setting and not a repro that SG owns) vintage ring top secret, then keep it to yourself, off the internet. You have then limited any possible copies to the jeweler who sold it to you and people who know you.
Personally, if the OP had brought me SG''s pics and requested a copy, I would have commissioned the project without hesitation. It''s not a designer piece, it''s not a copyrighted piece, and half moons and baguettes are not particularly unique in their elements (if memory serves, doesn''t Leon have a similar style 5-stone ring on his site? Maybe those are bullets, not baguettes, but you get my point.)
geckodani
Ideal_Rock
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Thritto. And Ditto. And - yeah. When I posted the first time I hadn''t seen the original thread. I find it very, very sad that the situation arose at all, and that PT''s thread was crashed.Date: 1/7/2009 11:15:00 AM
Author: TravelingGal
How many people can I ditto on this thread?
So, let me get this straight. It''s OK to post your ring and have countless people say ''I LOVE YOUR RING!'' and stroke your ego, but it''s not OK for anyone to get inspiration from it? Give me a bloody break. This has been unbelievably petty...and I''m using the nicest word I can find.
I was totally disgusted that PT''s thread was even crashed to let SG''s feelings be known.
I would like to think that PSers are as beautiful inside as the rings they wear. Perhaps not in all cases.
As many said, it wouldn''t be unreasonable for to be a bit miffed if someone IRL copied your design exactly, especially if it was unique. But on the Internet? On a jewelry forum. Holy sh*t.
Alj, I love that you can still be you. So true what you said. How many people copied Mara''s ring, to her delight and her assistance with the project? How many people here have been happy to help others find inspiration? Give me your chainsaw woman.
And Coati, just a shout out to you for being so gracious about your ring, which has been one of the most unique I''ve seen on here in a while. I love it...it''s hands down my favorite ring and I dream someday about asking if you don''t mind if I use it for inspiration! But it will always be first and foremost a Coati ring and a tribute to your fantastic taste.
I''m still stunned that someone would be surprised that their ring was copied. I mean, this forum has THOUSANDS of members/lurkers! The whole point is to share, and get inspiration.
Before I went on my bezel band hunt, I asked Shimmer if she would mind if I asked WF about hers. She graciously offered me even her CADs! And while my actual band is slightly different - it was still inspired by her, and I still have a pic of her set saved, that I drew massive inspiration from.
As she drew inspiration from the Tiffany Jazz, I suppose.
And so on and so forth into oblivion.
777_LDY
Brilliant_Rock
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Count me in on that!!Date: 1/7/2009 10:49:24 AM
Author: Ellen
Aw, don''t let anybody keep you from posting pics. Seriously.Date: 1/7/2009 10:41:58 AM
Author: CrookedRock
Thanks a ton Skippy! It posters like you that I miss a ton. I''m not sure I''ll post pieces anymore after the last fiasco, but I''m slowly starting to lurk and post, and it''s good to be back a lil. Happy New Year!Date: 1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM
Author: Skippy123
CR, you have a gorgeous ring and I look forward to see what you have made by Mark and please post it when done.
Besides, I wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
coatimundi_org
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 1/7/2009 11:15:00 AM
Author: TravelingGal
How many people can I ditto on this thread?
So, let me get this straight. It's OK to post your ring and have countless people say 'I LOVE YOUR RING!' and stroke your ego, but it's not OK for anyone to get inspiration from it? Give me a bloody break. This has been unbelievably petty...and I'm using the nicest word I can find.
I was totally disgusted that PT's thread was even crashed to let SG's feelings be known.
I would like to think that PSers are as beautiful inside as the rings they wear. Perhaps not in all cases.
As many said, it wouldn't be unreasonable for to be a bit miffed if someone IRL copied your design exactly, especially if it was unique. But on the Internet? On a jewelry forum. Holy sh*t.
Alj, I love that you can still be you. So true what you said. How many people copied Mara's ring, to her delight and her assistance with the project? How many people here have been happy to help others find inspiration? Give me your chainsaw woman.
And Coati, just a shout out to you for being so gracious about your ring, which has been one of the most unique I've seen on here in a while. I love it...it's hands down my favorite ring and I dream someday about asking if you don't mind if I use it for inspiration! But it will always be first and foremost a Coati ring and a tribute to your fantastic taste.
Ditto your dittos-haha!
Thanks very much TGal!
--and very thoughtful of you. I appreciate it! (This thread is teaching me a lot about graciousness--very good)
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Well it''s an ill wind that blows no good and I have now seen the beautiful rings of scarlet16 and CrookedRock, which I had somehow missed. Both would have knocked my socks off had I been wearing any at the time of the viewing . That first shot of the clean, white cushion posted in scarlet''s thread just about blew me away. Talk about imitation! I had never even considered buying a cushion, but suddenly the idea of cushion of about 4 carats seemed like a really, really good idea!!! I should have a talk with my bank account about that and see if my bank account knows of any legal ways of filling itself up .
scarlet, thank you for taking more photos of CrookedRock''s ring for her, too. Her photos just did not show it close up enough. I loved the photos you took of the rings belonging to both of you together in the same shots.
Wow!
That thread reminded me of why I like diamonds as well as colored stones.
Deborah
. That first shot of the clean, white cushion posted in scarlet''s thread just about blew me away. Talk about imitation! I had never even considered buying a cushion, but suddenly the idea of cushion of about 4 carats seemed like a really, really good idea!!! I should have a talk with my bank account about that and see if my bank account knows of any legal ways of filling itself up .scarlet, thank you for taking more photos of CrookedRock''s ring for her, too. Her photos just did not show it close up enough. I loved the photos you took of the rings belonging to both of you together in the same shots.
Wow!
That thread reminded me of why I like diamonds as well as colored stones
.Deborah
TravelingGal
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Seriously someone get me some meds or something...I''m still sitting here agape.
Someone tell me why someone has any rights over a ring because she had the good fortune to walk into a store, see a ring she loved which already existed, and buy it.
I''m thinking back to all the inspiration given over the years...and the /jewelrythat came from them. Belle''s pendant, which cause a huge swoon. Not only did she give WF rights to remake it, but the proceeds went to CHARITY. Reena''s ring which started the halo craze. Lovey''s ring which probably really made people look at asschers. Or what about the JCrow e-ring head reset? People really began to figure out what they wanted in a 6 prong head - and the "buttercup" craze was born. How many people have Kaleigh''s 3 stone Leon? The list probably goes on and on.
PS is a forum for sharing and knowledge. Not showing off and gloating. Maybe it''s better that people who don''t understand that not post.
Someone tell me why someone has any rights over a ring because she had the good fortune to walk into a store, see a ring she loved which already existed, and buy it.
I''m thinking back to all the inspiration given over the years...and the /jewelrythat came from them. Belle''s pendant, which cause a huge swoon. Not only did she give WF rights to remake it, but the proceeds went to CHARITY. Reena''s ring which started the halo craze. Lovey''s ring which probably really made people look at asschers. Or what about the JCrow e-ring head reset? People really began to figure out what they wanted in a 6 prong head - and the "buttercup" craze was born. How many people have Kaleigh''s 3 stone Leon? The list probably goes on and on.
PS is a forum for sharing and knowledge. Not showing off and gloating. Maybe it''s better that people who don''t understand that not post.
NewEnglandLady
Ideal_Rock
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CR, when this issue popped up, I immediately thought of you since you put so much effort into your ring and it turned out beautifully and I suspected many people got inspiration from your ring (it''s stunning!). I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that you get joy from looking at your ring because of what that ring means for you. You and your fiance should be very proud of that and I''m really glad that you were flattered when Mark told you that customers had been calling him after seeing your ring. I can''t wait to see what this next project (wedding band, maybe?
TravelingGal
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Hehehe, thanks Coati. I doubt I will be the only one. And anyway, you have gorgeous hands so even an exact replica would never look as nice on me!!!Date: 1/7/2009 11:37:19 AM
Author: coatimundi
Ditto your dittos-haha!
Thanks very much TGal!Use it--no need to ask
Ellen
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I personally think that being inspired by a design and copying every single detail is something entirely different.
My ring is very plain jane but if it were something that provided inspiration, I''d be flattered. If someone took photos of my ring and took it to a jeweler to have it copied exactly, even requesting the same type of stone, I''d be mega annoyed and bothered by it. *But* I''d be more upset with someone IRL than someone on the internet.
That said, if my ring was available to anyone else that just happened to walk in a store and if it were copied by someone on the internet then even if I did get upset, I shouldn''t be. PT posted the photo of her imitation but I''d be willing to bet she isn''t the only person that has imitated that ring. We have x amount of lurkers that have access to all photos.
So while I don''t think its wrong for SG to feel upset, it is what it is.
My ring is very plain jane but if it were something that provided inspiration, I''d be flattered. If someone took photos of my ring and took it to a jeweler to have it copied exactly, even requesting the same type of stone, I''d be mega annoyed and bothered by it. *But* I''d be more upset with someone IRL than someone on the internet.
That said, if my ring was available to anyone else that just happened to walk in a store and if it were copied by someone on the internet then even if I did get upset, I shouldn''t be. PT posted the photo of her imitation but I''d be willing to bet she isn''t the only person that has imitated that ring. We have x amount of lurkers that have access to all photos.
So while I don''t think its wrong for SG to feel upset, it is what it is.
geckodani
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Skippy123
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iluvcarats
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Date: 1/7/2009 11:15:00 AM
Author: TravelingGal
How many people can I ditto on this thread?
So, let me get this straight. It's OK to post your ring and have countless people say 'I LOVE YOUR RING!' and stroke your ego, but it's not OK for anyone to get inspiration from it? Give me a bloody break. This has been unbelievably petty...and I'm using the nicest word I can find.
I was totally disgusted that PT's thread was even crashed to let SG's feelings be known.
I would like to think that PSers are as beautiful inside as the rings they wear. Perhaps not in all cases.
As many said, it wouldn't be unreasonable for to be a bit miffed if someone IRL copied your design exactly, especially if it was unique. But on the Internet? On a jewelry forum. Holy sh*t.
Alj, I love that you can still be you. So true what you said. How many people copied Mara's ring, to her delight and her assistance with the project? How many people here have been happy to help others find inspiration? Give me your chainsaw woman.
And Coati, just a shout out to you for being so gracious about your ring, which has been one of the most unique I've seen on here in a while. I love it...it's hands down my favorite ring and I dream someday about asking if you don't mind if I use it for inspiration! But it will always be first and foremost a Coati ring and a tribute to your fantastic taste.
Actually, this is the type of behavior that would usually warrant a Public Service Announcement to stop "whinging", get your head out of your A$$, and go do some charity work.....
I speak from experience!
geckodani
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TravelingGal
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princesss
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Ultimately, it's a THING. Yes, it's a symbol, but nobody can copy your relationship, or the meaning behind the ring. They can only copy the outward symbol. You are no less in love if your ring is exactly like somebody else's. And if somebody wants a ring they love, why not get it?
In this situation it's as if she found a ring in a store, couldn't afford the one she saw, and had one made to fit in her budget. I don't think this would be an issue if she had found it in a store, or in the "Celebrity Bling" thread. I'm not entirely certain why it's an issue, actually.
Would I be a little miffed if my best friend or a coworker got the exact same ring as one I had? Well, yes, a little, for a while, because we see each other often. And then I would remember that's it's not as if I custom designed it down to the last tiny detail, unlike say, Pandora. Same case here.
Now, if I were in Pandora's shoes with her e-ring and somebody made an exact replica...well, I'd be more than a little put out.
ETA: Ditto alj and TGal. And thanks for the shots of Coati's ring. That is jaw-droppingly beautiful, and I hope you don't mind if it goes in my inspiration/one day when I have a lot of money folder. I wouldn't mind something just like that in my safe.
In this situation it's as if she found a ring in a store, couldn't afford the one she saw, and had one made to fit in her budget. I don't think this would be an issue if she had found it in a store, or in the "Celebrity Bling" thread. I'm not entirely certain why it's an issue, actually.
Would I be a little miffed if my best friend or a coworker got the exact same ring as one I had? Well, yes, a little, for a while, because we see each other often. And then I would remember that's it's not as if I custom designed it down to the last tiny detail, unlike say, Pandora. Same case here.
Now, if I were in Pandora's shoes with her e-ring and somebody made an exact replica...well, I'd be more than a little put out.
ETA: Ditto alj and TGal. And thanks for the shots of Coati's ring. That is jaw-droppingly beautiful, and I hope you don't mind if it goes in my inspiration/one day when I have a lot of money folder. I wouldn't mind something just like that in my safe.
Cleopatra
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coatimundi_org
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hahaha! Thanks ladies! What's my ring doing in this thread?
Might as well include JM!
jamesmeyerjewelry.com
Might as well include JM!
jamesmeyerjewelry.com
- Status
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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