I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Enough?

[Diamond24]

Hey everyone!

I've been studying up on diamonds for a few months now but how deep into the detail of the actual diamond is necessary? I've already made the following 12 decisions listed below on the type of diamond I am interested in purchasing.

Shape = Round
Carat Weight = 0.82 - 0.90
Clarity = IF - FL
Color = D
Cut = Excellent
Cutlet = None
Depth = 58-62
Fluorescence = None
Girdle = Thin - Slightly Thick
Polish = Excellent
Symmetry = Excellent
Table = 53-60

That said, now that I'm in the purchasing phase I started looking at the actual GIA certificates & now I see things such as Crown Angle & Height, Pavillion Angle & Depth, Star Length, & Lower Half. Are these things important for me to understand as well?

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Yes they are. THey determine how well your diamond will perform. I think you should do some more reading. What is your price range by the way? a well cut stone with your specs is going to run you ~$8000 and ~$10000 FYI.

What is the reason you are looking for D color IF and FL only?

 

[Diamond24]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

My options are strictly preference. I understand that you can save money without sacrificing with much quality by going to E color & VVS clarity but I prefer to have a top grade in each aspect. I see most diamonds with my specs are $10k+ per carat but I'm only in the $8k+ range because I'm in the .80's weight. I was told that if I have an ideal cut diamond, with excellent depth, polish, symmetry, & table then it's impossible to have bad grades in crown angle & height, pavillion angle & depth, star length, & lower half. Was I misled?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Cut is the thing that makes a diamond have top sparkle and fire not colour and not clarity. Colour is a personal choice. The average human eye cannot tell the difference between an E and a D colour diamond. In fact around 85 to 90% of all people cannot tell the difference between a D and a well cut F. And if the stone is completely 100% eye clean you cannot tell the difference between a eyeclean VS2 and a IF stone.

Here is an example of someone who thought buying an E VVS2 was "the best" only to realise that cut is the main thing that gives a diamond the most important eye pleasing qualities of all;

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sad-about-my-e-ring-oval-bow-tie-effect.194303/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sad-about-my-e-ring-oval-bow-tie-effect.194303/[/URL]

So I guess what I am saying is that if you want a D or an E colour stone because you are a purest I get that that some people want ice white stones. But unless you have looked at a lot of diamonds I doubt you or anyone else is going to be able to tell the difference. The IF clarity IMHO is wasted money. No-one and I mean no-one can tell the difference between a IF stone and a eye clean VS stone but EVERYONE can visibly see the difference between a .80 carat and a 1.00 carat or a .90 carat and a 1.10 carat and so on. For your budget you should be looking for a top cut, white, eye clean diamond in the largest size you can afford.

 

[Diamond24]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

See that is where I'm different from most people. I go quality over quantity. People move down from colorless to near colorless as well as VVS to VS because people can't see the difference with the naked eye. I might be the 1% in saying this but this ring isn't for other people to gawk at...it's for her to cherish. I feel that a 1 carat diamond and above is gaudy...especially on a small hand.

I want her to know that I tried to get a diamond as flawless & high quality as she is to me. People have been saying to get a near colorless diamond because people can't tell the difference. Then people say get a VS diamond because people can't tell the difference. Lastly, they say get a bigger diamond because people CAN tell the difference but is this ring for her or everyone else?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

O.K no problem. Yes there are a small number of people that agree with you and an colourless IF ring symbolises something in their relationship. I was merely pointing out please buy a decent cut or your top colour and clarity will be wasted and that a .20 carat size difference is noticeable. I don't think a one carat stone is gaudy, but I guess it depends on how you want to set it.

As you can see from the video something like this is never going to look anything other than beautiful;

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=942

I sincerely doubt any woman that got a stone like that would feel anything other than cherished.

What do you consider a small sized finger?

 

[DC519]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Have you asked what she may prefer?
Also, D IF is not any better than an E VS or F VS if the D IF is poorly cut. While we don't know you or your relationship, I will say most women will be looking at the size of the diamond on their hand everyday over the color and clarity. And while it's not for everyone, there will be a lot of women ooh-ing at her ring once it is presented to her, it's just human nature. I think a 1 carat sparkly round is beautiful on any hand, and while anything over a carat may be gaudy in your opinion, I can maybe count on one hand the number of women who have said "Oh no, this is much too big!" when presented with a 1 carat or larger diamond.

 

[cflutist]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

A little larger than you are looking for, but if you want the absolute very best in all aspects here is a D-IF Crafted by Infinity SuperIdeal, Hearts and Arrows diamond:

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1301

Here is the link to the cutter's website:
http://www.infinity-diamonds.com/

CBI is currently cutting a "custom" cut-to-order diamond for me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

You need to make certain parameters tighter.

Table: 54-58

Depth: 60-62.3

Crown angle: 34-35.0

Pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

If you aim is to buy her the highest quality, cut is the most important factor and you'd want a super ideal cut stone.

I am not seeing a D IF, but I do see an E IF super ideal cut stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11246/

The other vendors besides Good Old Gold who carry super ideal cuts, WhiteFlash, Infinity, and Brian Gavin do not currently have anything close to your specs, but you could check and see what they have coming in. If you don't want the E IF, then you can ask Good Old Gold if they can locate one (they are near NYC and have easy access to many diamond suppliers). They will check it out with their tools to be sure it meets the cut standard.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

I was told that if I have an ideal cut diamond, with excellent depth, polish, symmetry, & table then it's impossible to have bad grades in crown angle & height, pavillion angle & depth, star length, & lower half. Was I misled?

Yes - you were misled, or at least, misinformed.

These variables affect the appearance / performance / quality of the stone in a dramatic way. You cannot ignore these characteristics/details.

You have received good suggestions on ranges for these characteristics. Best of luck!

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Request an Idealscope:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-322764

 

[ecf8503]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Oh boy. No, you do not know enough at all. Look up top under Knowledge and READ.

As long as you understand that D Fl/IF is a personal preference and that you will be massively overpaying for something you literally cannot see that has no bearing on the light performance / sparkle of the stone, then sure, go for it. You will not be able to see the difference between an IF and an eye clean SI, but your wallet will know the difference.

I understand the lure of a D - I have one myself, and I'm glad I do. But I *personally* went down to SI1 (eye-clean) to maximize size, which is something you CAN see.

You need to read more, and concentrate on cut quality - it's what makes the stone sparkle, which is what you want. A poorly cut D Fl/IF will look smaller and duller than an ideal cut stone of any other color / clarity combo that is ideal cut - you want it to look awesome right? Don't compromise on cut.

Start looking at places that can do idealscope images for you so you know what you are buying. Run the numbers on the certs through the HCA https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca and then ask for an idealscope image for those that score less than 2. Or get an AGS 0 stone. Buy from a well known vendor who has done all the work for you and that has a good upgrade and return policy.

Look at these - this is the kind of cut quality and performance data you are looking for:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...0.903-d-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041023

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3236252.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11246/

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

So OP, i think we all get where you are coming from. But if you really want the best for her especially for your price range, you really need to focus on cut first, then make all the other factors the best that you can for the price. Because you could get a D color IF rock but if the cut is not good it will not sparkle. Is that what you want? Do you think she would want that just because on paper its the best color and clarity? You have some very good advice good. good luck. let us know what you come up with.

 

[Diamond24]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

I acknowledged the advice given & updated my specs:

Shape = Round
Carat Weight = 0.80 To 0.85
Clarity = IF To FL
Color = D
Culet = None
Cut = Excellent
Depth = 60-63
Fluorescence = None
Girdle = Thin - Slightly Thick
Polish = Excellent
Symmetry = Excellent
Table = 53-57

Please help me understand cut. I had my cut listed as excellent & people are telling me not to sacrifice cut as it is the most important. I thought excellent is the highest since I have never seen anything higher on a GIA certificate. I see different websites have different names for cut such as perfection, ideal, signature ideal, excellent, etc. Can someone explain what I'm missing?

 

[baby monster]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

See that is where I'm different from most people. I go quality over quantity. People move down from colorless to near colorless as well as VVS to VS because people can't see the difference with the naked eye. I might be the 1% in saying this but this ring isn't for other people to gawk at...it's for her to cherish. I feel that a 1 carat diamond and above is gaudy...especially on a small hand.

I want her to know that I tried to get a diamond as flawless & high quality as she is to me. People have been saying to get a near colorless diamond because people can't tell the difference. Then people say get a VS diamond because people can't tell the difference. Lastly, they say get a bigger diamond because people CAN tell the difference but is this ring for her or everyone else?

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

 

[chrono]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

GIA's EX cut grading is very broad and forgiving, thus one could end up with a GIA Ex diamond that isn't very sparkly.
http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/gia-ex-vs-ags-ideal-1329.htm

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

I acknowledged the advice given & updated my specs:

Shape = Round
Carat Weight = 0.80 To 0.85
Clarity = IF To FL
Color = D
Culet = None
Cut = Excellent
Depth = 60-63
Fluorescence = None
Girdle = Thin - Slightly Thick
Polish = Excellent
Symmetry = Excellent
Table = 53-57

Please help me understand cut. I had my cut listed as excellent & people are telling me not to sacrifice cut as it is the most important. I thought excellent is the highest since I have never seen anything higher on a GIA certificate. I see different websites have different names for cut such as perfection, ideal, signature ideal, excellent, etc. Can someone explain what I'm missing?

This was stolen from another post on here but to get the best cut you will want to keep to these proportions to better increase your chances of proper light performance. Ever wonder why diamonds with the same specs you list above might vary in price by a huge margin? Its likely the cheaper ones are poorly cut.

depth - 60 - 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above (id recommend excellent)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

63 is too deep. Did you see the parameters I wrote above? If you go too deep, the diamond may face up smaller (smaller diameter) and look like a lower weight diamond.

If you want the highest quality diamond, D and VVS to IF is fine if that is what you want. But to match the highest color and clarity, you absolutely need highest cut quality. And I have already told you that the sources of super ideal cuts are Good Old Gold, WhiteFlash, Infinity (High Performance Diamonds), and Brian Gavin. When you buy a super ideal cut from any of these, they provide magnified images of the diamonds and idealscope images to prove the light return as well as heart images.

As others have said, GIA Excellent cut is a very broad range and much wider than AGS Ideal cut. You want the top tier of GIA Excellent if you go with a GIA stone. Do not buy without an idealscope image in that case. But you likely won't get a super ideal cut unless you go through one of the above vendors who source and accurately identify them.

 

[kenny]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Of all the shapes they cut diamonds into the round is the easiest shape for finding good cut.
Unfortunately GIA's Excellent cut grade allows some proportion combinations that are actually not very good.

Fortunately there is an easy and bullet-proof two-step process for identifying a well-cut round, HCA and Idealscope.

Step 1, plug four numbers from the GIA or AGS report into the HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
Reject rounds that score over 2.0.

Sine there are some things that may still be wrong with those scoring under 2.0 that are invisible to the HCA, you need step 2.
IOW, HCA is a tool for rejecting diamonds, not for making the final selection.

Step 2, get an Idealscope image on rounds scoring under 2.0.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Compare it to this chart.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

 

[Travelgal]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Hi OP- I think the ring setting greatly impacts the "gaudiness" of a diamond. Rings that are set low, cathedral settings, bezel settings, simple pave settings are "classy/delicate/feminine" to me. My center stone is set very low. It could look much bigger if it was set higher or surrounded by a halo which look very lovely on other people but are a bit too much on my fingers. I have a size 3.75 ring finger and can say over time diamonds seem to strink in size. I (personally) think IF-FL is overkill, but I do love the whiteness of a D-E stone. If I was given a ring with IF clarity, I would think my significant other got ripped off and that it's totally unnecessary. My first stone was a VS1 and I can assure you the one tiny cloud was barely viable with a loop.

It sounds like you've got your mind made up, but I would highly suggest a 1 carat, D-E stone with vs1 clarity. It will knock her socks off more so than a .8 carat D, FL. A truly perfect stone is one that is cut well and catches light and stands out in the crowd.

 

[kenny]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

As long as you know:
High color and clarity do not result in better light performance, only good cut does that.
You are getting a much smaller diamond because it is D IF.
Few people can detect what you are paying big bucks for, especially after setting.
Her friends/family would be more impressed by a bigger stone of the same price, unless she gets this tattoo on the back of her hand "THIS IS A D IF DIAMOND".
Even though you have made it clear that YOU value the money being put into D IF instead of size ... I'd make sure that SHE agrees ... if not she may always be bothered when she looks down at it that she could have been wearing a larger stone for the same $$$ but you didn't consult with her.
Your view (D IF over size) is in the vast minority ... which personally I 100% respect ... I am not a follow-the-crowd lemur either, and don't care if I'm the ONLY person who wants XYZ.
Still, she will be wearing the thing ... odds are she is not also in that small minority with you.
Only buy the D IF if she also values what you have said it means to you.

I've been reading PS for 10 years and have seen many examples of the romantic notion, of the man completely surprising the gal, backfire.
Then again if you are absolutely certain (though I don't know how knowing this would be possible) that she also values the surprise romantic notion more than a larger diamond, get the D IF.
Marriage/relationship are all about compromise and coordination; IMO an engagement diamond choice requires that.
End of sermon.

After all this, if you still want a D IF ... then go for it.
Whatever you buy, DO use the HCA and Idealscope to assure superb cut.
Cut is king, and GIA's Excellent cut grade is too sloppy.

And bless you for ignoring all the intolerance of diversity exhibited in this thread.
IMO the questions on why you want D IF are good and education about it is good because many people mistakenly believe color and clarity make a diamond more sparkly.
But after that education and after you have put your foot down the comments like 'wasting money', 'massively overpaying', 'overkill', 'if you can't see it then it doesn't matter' should stop.

I also agree 'gaudy' is relative, and in the eye of the beholder.
If your social circle wears 3 carat diamonds a 1 ct won't seem gaudy to anyone there.
If you social circle wears 1/4 carat diamonds a 1/2 carat may be seen as gaudy by some.

 

[Travelgal]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

One more thing... You said you are going shopping which sounds to me like you are going to jewelers in-person. Make sure that you call them in advance, give them your parameters and ask them to call in at least 4 stones that match your criteria. Many brick and mortar jewelers will only have 1 or 2 stones that meet your criteria, so you have nothing to compare them to. You can't tell my looking at a single stone if it is better than the others. I highly recommend watching the educational videos on stuart more before visiting a jeweler as you will get an understanding of how to better pick a diamond. http://www.stuartmoore.com

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

One more thing... You said you are going shopping which sounds to me like you are going to jewelers in-person. Make sure that you call them in advance, give them your parameters and ask them to call in at least 4 stones that match your criteria. Many brick and mortar jewelers will only have 1 or 2 stones that meet your criteria, so you have nothing to compare them to. You can't tell my looking at a single stone if it is better than the others. I highly recommend watching the educational videos on stuart more before visiting a jeweler as you will get an understanding of how to better pick a diamond. http://www.stuartmoore.com

Actually, most stores won’t have ANY stones that meet this set of specs, and if you’re going to be picky about cutting, which I recommend for reasons discussed by the folks above, there’s basically zero chance of just walking in the door and getting what you want. Most stores can get this but it just isn't the sort of thing that they're going to want to have tie up their inventory investment to give you several to choose from. They can only stock so much after all. Call them up, talk to them in advance about your requirements and make an appointment.

 

[Diamond24]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

That would be a great way to ruin a surprise proposal. Hey honey...just curious...which kind of engagement ring do you want?

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

 

[cflutist]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

That would be a great way to ruin a surprise proposal. Hey honey...just curious...which kind of engagement ring do you want?

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

I think that it is really refreshing to see someone with your wishes post here. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with wanting and paying for the "best", but as others have said, make sure that your "best" also includes the best cut possible too. AGS0 is a wide range in itself, so if you buy a SuperIdeal, true Hearts and Arrows D-IF diamond from any of the vendors already listed for this, you should be good to go.

For me personally, it is nice to follow your story. So much more exciting to me than reading about all of the J/K, SI1 or SI2s that face up as white as a "D". Good luck in your search.

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

That would be a great way to ruin a surprise proposal. Hey honey...just curious...which kind of engagement ring do you want?

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

I think the only thing you are doing wrong is not prioritizing the cut. The cut is more important than any of the "i wants" you have listed in ensuring she gets the best. So if you truly want to the best, take your wants, and make sure they fit with the recommendations for proportions of the cut, then check idealscope image to confirm light performance. Or just go with an AGS0 which ensures the best light performance.

 

[liaerfbv]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

That would be a great way to ruin a surprise proposal. Hey honey...just curious...which kind of engagement ring do you want?

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

Um, yea, that's exactly what you should be asking. Getting someone the "best" means getting them exactly what they want.

Your parameters are fine, if you use the cut guide above others have given you. Getting a D-FL is fine, if that's what she values. A surprise is only a success if the receiver is as happy as the giver.

 

[blingbuyer]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Using your paramaters above here is the only stone i saw that meets that criteria (along with having an ideal cut)

http://www.eternitybyyoni.com/diamond_detail.php?id=605405&ref=pricescope

 

[kenny]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

Yes there is a best color grade, D.
Yes there is a best clarity grade, flawless.
But those are only two of the four Cs.

There is also a best size.
For the vast majority that is the largest diamond they can afford.

Go ahead and buy a small D IF, but people are trying to hold up a mirror and see how you are closing your eyes to the importance of a third parameter, size.
You are guilty of tunnel vision about color and clarity and not seeing each diamond is a combination of several parameters, not just two.

People vary.
What they consider to be "the best" varies.
Some simply must have an icy-white D so they go down in clarity or size or cut.
Some simply must have flawless so all their other specs come down.

You consdier D IF to be the best.
The vast majority consider a larger diamond of lower (but acceptable) color and clarity to be the best.

Let me rephrase that ... I'm going to replace 'the' with 'your' and 'their'.

You consdier D IF to be your best.
The vast majority consider a larger diamond of lower (but acceptable) color and clarity to be their best.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: I'm Looking To Buy A Diamond This Week.....Do I Know Eno

Lots if "I like" and "I want" statements here . If this ring is for her, she should be given the choice of size vs other specs.

That would be a great way to ruin a surprise proposal. Hey honey...just curious...which kind of engagement ring do you want?

All of my "I want" statements revolved around getting her the best so if I'm doing something wrong for wanting the best let me know.

There is nothing wrong going for a D color stone...GO FOR IT!. Just be sure it is a well cut H&A stone.