I would like to vent a bit, and also hopefully get some advice....

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 1/4/2010 10:08:12 AM
Author: Rockdiamond
Scott- I am extremely concerned on your behalf regarding the refund
You WILL be able to find a nice replacement for the 16k
But if you have to sue the store to get your refund it could take years
I would do nothing else TODAY before taking the ring back, getting the check (it''s unlikely they wil give you cash)
and making sure it clears
This seller has proven beyond a doubt they are not worthy of your trust

This would be my primary focus as well. I hear about them extending the return period but are they saying that you have to buy something else from them? Are you just assuming they will give you your money back? I wouldn''t wait five more minutes - I''d go get my money! You can find lots of things with money in hand - I just wouldn''t trust them to wait!!

 

[Hest88]

Agreed with the rest. Get your money back so you can breathe easy and so there''s no way the store can throw another wrench into this. Once you get your money back all your options open up again.

 

[snoozie]

I agree that you should return this ring today and make sure the check clears!!!!!!
RUN don''t walk....

You can go to a GHI color range and still keep the size. A well cut stone will face up nice and white.

 

[scott n]

Thanks. We are heading there tonight to return the ring.

I have now spent about 5 hours searching online and am comfortable that we can find a great replacement for the same price. Perhaps an even better ring that will also carry the GIA certification as well. Once I have my $ back I will post some of the ones I have found and ask for your opinions of them versus the ones that you have posted.

Is it fair to say that when buying online it is important to go up to SI1 versus SI2 so there is a much lower chance that it will be "eye-clean"? If make that jump I will have to compromise somewhere else. I think going down from 2.4ct to 2.0ct is one concession I am willing to make and perhaps going from f color to G or H as well.

Does anyone have opinions about going to NYC's diamond district versus shopping online? I am just a few hours away and could make the trip.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/4/2010 1:22:40 PM
Author: scott n
Thanks. We are heading there tonight to return the ring.

I have now spent about 5 hours searching online and am comfortable that we can find a great replacement for the same price. Perhaps an even better ring that will also carry the GIA certification as well. Once I have my $ back I will post some of the ones I have found and ask for your opinions of them versus the ones that you have posted.


Is it fair to say that when buying online it is important to go up to SI1 versus SI2 so there is a much lower chance that it will be 'eye-clean'? If make that jump I will have to compromise somewhere else. I think going down from 2.4ct to 2.0ct is one concession I am willing to make and perhaps going from f color to G or H as well.


Does anyone have opinions about going to NYC's diamond district versus shopping online? I am just a few hours away and could make the trip.

For the most part the diamond district is NOT where you want to shop. You'll get ripped off big time.

There are some great vendors there however such as Mark at Engagement Rings Direct (and he can help you find a perfectly cut round if you ask) and Jon at Good Old Gold is just a train ride away in Long Island. Excel Diamonds and ID jewelery are also two well known vendors in the DD that you could go see. If you want to make the trip you'll need to make appointments with these vendors-most of them are not street booths.

But first, I would really recommend trying Brian Gavin Diamonds. You'll be able to get an SI2 with them (as you would with the vendors I listed above) because they will be honest with you about whether it's a clean SI2 or not. Check them out here-Brian used to be the diamond cutter for Whiteflash and he has a wonderful reputation here.

But no, I would not buy a random SI2 from say Bluenile or something.

 

[bgray]

Scott N: Personally I would never buy an Si2. Brian Gavin would be the ONE person/business I might entrust to find me a worthy Si2 but they typically are very included and bothersome to the eye-- at least to perfectionists like most on this board. Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, and Good Old Gold are the vendors most noted for their attention to cut quality. If you buy an optimally cut round you can easily do a H Si1 and get a marvelous stone. You are a better off sacrificing a little size for cut quality. Additionally there is an old rule of thumb that for value sake one should purchase a stone without too much spread in the 4 c's. For example to buy a J color VVs1 would be silly--unless it was for some reason a very rare cut like a vintage asscher or in some way your perfect stone. Thats why for many the sweet spot for rounds is a G or H vs 2or si1. You can also go lower in color in well cut rounds than in other cuts as well without it being noticeable. Additionally the vendors here all have very nice upgrade policies that many run-of-the-mill B&M stores dont have or if they do--they are very expensive (Tiffany).

 

[stone-cold11]

James Allen also has an office in NYC, but they will all require an appointment, so call before hand and list the diamonds you are interested in seeing.
For the JA stones I listed, request for an Idealscope image and get the gemologist to see if it is eye-clean, fluor has any effect on the performance of the stone.

SI2 has lower chance of being eye-clean, so I am just looking at the cut and selecting SI1 as a min, there is no way to judge if a stone is eye-clean or not just from the images. You can go SI2, but selecting from the cut and then eye-clean means sorting through more stones before you get what you want.

Size wise, what is the dimensions, in mm, listed for your EGL stone? That will determine the face up dimensions you see, not the carat weight. A well cut stone also look bigger.

The left being a 0.84c while the right stone being 1.00c.

From this page. http://diamonds.pricescope.com/carat.asp

 

[sarah95]

I agree with everyone else that step 1 is returning the ring asap and getting your money back. I have a GIA, I colored diamond w/fluorescence that faces up white and is an eye clean SI2. Eye clean SI2 are out there, but you have to be patient enough to find them. Depending on color sensitivity, you could drop down to an I to maintain the ct weight you''re looking for, but as mentioned in other posts, don''t sacrifice cut quality.

I started out looking at EGL diamonds (their prices caught my eye), but after joining PS and learning from the wonderful members here, I ended up with a GIA triple excellent. However, I have a friend that purchased an EGL, D, SI2 and after having it appraised, the color was deemed accurate, but clarity was a grade off. Though the only visible inclusion is a small white inclusion that was covered by a prong. She lucked out with a brilliant, well cut diamond. So, even though buying EGL is a total gamble, it is possible to end up with nice diamond.

I purchased my ring from usacerteddiamonds.com (a PS vendor) and worked with Martin Sheffield who was great. They beat all other PS vendors on pricing, but unfortunately, they don''t have an upgrade policy which is something to keep in mind if you think you might want to upgrade someday. You mentioned the diamond district -I have read some posts about people purchasing from ID Jewelry and having a good experience. So, if you wanted to look at some stones in person, that might be a good place to start.

Good luck with your search!

 

[bgray]

inquiring minds want to know what happened?

 

[dani13]

Date: 1/3/2010 11:16:52 PM
Author: bgray
per NEATFREAK:


This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.

?????? bgray, I think this is a totally unfair statement. ERD is wonderful. Just because they dont have all the high tech equipment doesnt mean that they cannot find a gorgeous round. Mark is great and completely knowledgeable and capable.

OP, sorry for the thread hijack[

I hope you can find a feasible solution for your problem.

 

[bgray]

Date: 1/5/2010 9:32:58 AM
Author: Dani

Date: 1/3/2010 11:16:52 PM

Author: bgray

per NEATFREAK:



This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.

?????? bgray, I think this is a totally unfair statement. ERD is wonderful. Just because they dont have all the high tech equipment doesnt mean that they cannot find a gorgeous round. Mark is great and completely knowledgeable and capable.


OP, sorry for the thread hijack

I didnt say they couldnt --but ERD is not in the same vein as the other three when it comes to cut. It is not their thing and not how they do things. Just because you like him doesnt mean that this is an area of expertise for him the way it is for the others.

 

[luckynumber]

please tell me you''ve taken that ring back scott n!!!

do nothing else until you do that!!

 

[dani13]

Date: 1/5/2010 9:40:47 AM
Author: bgray

Date: 1/5/2010 9:32:58 AM

Author: Dani

Date: 1/3/2010 11:16:52 PM


Author: bgray


per NEATFREAK:




This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.

?????? bgray, I think this is a totally unfair statement. ERD is wonderful. Just because they dont have all the high tech equipment doesnt mean that they cannot find a gorgeous round. Mark is great and completely knowledgeable and capable.



OP, sorry for the thread hijack

I didnt say they couldnt --but ERD is not in the same vein as the other three when it comes to cut. It is not their thing and not how they do things. Just because you like him doesnt mean that this is an area of expertise for him the way it is for the others.

I didnt post my comment just because I like Mark. Personally, I worked with your "preferred vendors" and I do not feel like they are superior to ERD. I just thought your statement was unfair- you''re always putting down ERD and its rude. If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all!!!

 

[scott n]

Date: 1/5/2010 9:26:56 AM
Author: bgray
inquiring minds want to know what happened?

Thanks for asking. If I was faster at typing i would love to recreate a transcript of the entire ordeal. perhaps sometime down the road I will...

Last night was an experience I would not wish on anyone. The store closes at 6PM and we were stuck in traffic. We called them at 5:45 and explained that we are driving about an hour to see them and needed to do a quick transaction. We were going to be there at just about exactly 6PM. They said that the could not stay open late and we might have to come back some other night! Fortunately after blowing through a few red lights we got there at exactly 5:58 and caught them as they were closing up shop. The 2 salesmen saw us coming and they went and hid in the back and made us ask for them to come out.

"Wrong Cookie" was armed with enough information to overcome any objection they could possibly throw at us. She went as far as to have a conversation with the executive director at an agency called "Leading Jewelers of the World". Their reaction to hearing her use his name was precious. The fact that he recommended a course of action that included not dealing with the sales person and ask for the owner by name was intimidating to the sales manager with 20 years of tenure. There was some contention what was legal versus simply shady business ethics. Unfortunately the owner of the shop is on vacation out of the country for the next 2 weeks.

"WC" is a very principle based person, and even though we did get our money back I feel like this argument is far from over. We got from them in writing that they would set aside the diamond until we have a chance to talk to the owner in person. More to come, but now back to the fun stuff... Buying something shinny!

So now I have my $16,000 back and am ready to replace the ring ASAP. This time it is going to be a much more thorough process and I feel like I know 1,000,000 times more about shopping for diamonds than I did before. It just gets me that in my business if I knowingly omit material information it is fraudulent and the same as lying.

My goal today is to find 5 diamonds that are 2+, H or better, SI1 (eye-clean) and the best possible cut. My budget without the setting is about 12-16k.

One additional question I have is, whether or not the only prices are negotiable?

 

[stone-cold11]

prices online are usually non-negotiable because of the low profit margin.

Some vendor do offer PSer''s discount and further discount through bank wiring, so check that out. Also check out their respective trade up/buy back policy as that also affects the pricing of the stone.

 

[scott n]

Date: 1/5/2010 10:50:27 AM
Author: Dani

Date: 1/5/2010 9:40:47 AM

Author: bgray

Date: 1/5/2010 9:32:58 AM


Author: Dani

Date: 1/3/2010 11:16:52 PM



Author: bgray



per NEATFREAK:





This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.

?????? bgray, I think this is a totally unfair statement. ERD is wonderful. Just because they dont have all the high tech equipment doesnt mean that they cannot find a gorgeous round. Mark is great and completely knowledgeable and capable.




OP, sorry for the thread hijack

I didnt say they couldnt --but ERD is not in the same vein as the other three when it comes to cut. It is not their thing and not how they do things. Just because you like him doesnt mean that this is an area of expertise for him the way it is for the others.

I didnt post my comment just because I like Mark. Personally, I worked with your 'preferred vendors' and I do not feel like they are superior to ERD. I just thought your statement was unfair- you're always putting down ERD and its rude. If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all!!!

this question is not meant to offend, but I am curious if any people here have a vested interest in what company I chose? Everyone seems very knowledgeable, much more so than me! Those diamonds already posted are ones I am seriously considering and are on my list that I am narrowing down. I just want to make sure that I am not being steered toward a company in a thinly veiled sales pitch. Again if this makes it seem like I am doubting any of this generous advice I am getting for free - I am sorry. I have already played the role of the turkey asking the Pilgrims what is for dinner.

 

[bgray]

Date: 1/5/2010 10:50:27 AM
Author: Dani

Date: 1/5/2010 9:40:47 AM

Author: bgray

Date: 1/5/2010 9:32:58 AM


Author: Dani

Date: 1/3/2010 11:16:52 PM



Author: bgray



per NEATFREAK:





This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.

?????? bgray, I think this is a totally unfair statement. ERD is wonderful. Just because they dont have all the high tech equipment doesnt mean that they cannot find a gorgeous round. Mark is great and completely knowledgeable and capable.




OP, sorry for the thread hijack

I didnt say they couldnt --but ERD is not in the same vein as the other three when it comes to cut. It is not their thing and not how they do things. Just because you like him doesnt mean that this is an area of expertise for him the way it is for the others.

I didnt post my comment just because I like Mark. Personally, I worked with your ''preferred vendors'' and I do not feel like they are superior to ERD. I just thought your statement was unfair- you''re always putting down ERD and its rude. If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all!!!

I have worked with ALL of the vendors in question and I dont have a preferred vendor. As a matter of fact if I was looking for a cushion or other fancy, I would not go through Whiteflash or Brian Gavin. I believe an open forum allows for personal opinions. I was giving my opinion. I think ERD has good customer service but I personally dont think its the place to go for cut oriented buyers, particularly with rounds.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 1/5/2010 11:11:49 AM
Author: scott n

this question is not meant to offend, but I am curious if any people here have a vested interest in what company I chose? Everyone seems very knowledgeable, much more so than me! Those diamonds already posted are ones I am seriously considering and are on my list that I am narrowing down. I just want to make sure that I am not being steered toward a company in a thinly veiled sales pitch. Again if this makes it seem like I am doubting any of this generous advice I am getting for free. I have already played the role of the turkey asking the Pilgrims what is for dinner.

Vendors are not allowed to hawk their own goods or even comment on stones of others, they will be differentiated with a link to their website. The rest of us are just consumers, no gain for us other than just to see you get a good stone and maybe a handshot or 2 of the finished product.

 

[bgray]

Scott-no one has a vested interest (or should). I think people get hung up on promoting people they feel good about. I feel good about most pricescope vendors: but they have different strengths and weaknesses. I think some are definitely better for fancies, some for rounds, some for the more budget concious and so forth. (In my opinion). Some of the bigger vendors can do it all but I still think they have a niche where they do most of their business. Some do a little bit of every thing. If you are interested --and I thought you were--in a tip top quality round brilliant with a good value for your dollar then I suggested whiteflash and BGD simply because their market is heavily oriented toward superior cut rounds. Good luck now that you have your money in hand!

 

[scott n]

Date: 1/5/2010 11:17:52 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 1/5/2010 11:11:49 AM

Author: scott n


this question is not meant to offend, but I am curious if any people here have a vested interest in what company I chose? Everyone seems very knowledgeable, much more so than me! Those diamonds already posted are ones I am seriously considering and are on my list that I am narrowing down. I just want to make sure that I am not being steered toward a company in a thinly veiled sales pitch. Again if this makes it seem like I am doubting any of this generous advice I am getting for free. I have already played the role of the turkey asking the Pilgrims what is for dinner.

Vendors are not allowed to hawk their own goods or even comment on stones of others, they will be differentiated with a link to their website. The rest of us are just consumers, no gain for us other than just to see you get a good stone and maybe a handshot or 2 of the finished product.

Great. That is what I thought...or was hoping! But you know me...Just lucky that the Wrong Cookie is on my side.

 

[elle_chris]

scott n- I understand your concern. I had the same when I first started reading PS years ago, but I think those people are long gone or don't post as much anymore.

For myself, I've purchased from 4 of the vendors here. First time was Good Old Gold as I felt safer purchasing from someone located in NY as I'm here too. Second time, after I was more comfortable and saw how beautiful my GOG stone was, tried WhiteFlash. Their stones were amazing as well. Then as I learned more about diamonds I tried James Allen. Win there too. I even went with Pearlmans for a setting after a local store here (Soho Gems) quoted me $1,600 more for the Sholdt setting I wanted.

Vested interest for some or not, (and I'm really thinking for most not), the stones and prices are better. There's no getting around that.

eta: the safest way to do it is going with a company that has a good return policy. Get the stone, have it appraised and then decide what to do. Nothing beats an independant opinion.

 

[Hest88]

Scott, thanks for reporting back. Whew!

 

[coda72]

I''m glad you got your money back from the shady jeweler.

Here is my diamond pick:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2133622.htm#

 

[scott n]

Date: 1/5/2010 12:33:55 PM
Author: coda72
I''m glad you got your money back from the shady jeweler.


Here is my diamond pick:


http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2133622.htm#

thanks, i have that one on my list!

 

[scott n]

There are a lot I have found. As I search the different sites I will updates these and as I learn more about them I will edit this post. This is just a start to get myself organized. Any comments on any of these?

Whiteflash
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2133622.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2163497.htm


GOG
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6399/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6825/

James Allen
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1097924.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-981003.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1266086.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1200315.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1214575.asp

UnionDiamond
http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?search_type_id=4&action_type_id=2&item_id=AB472344&&2.04ct-G-SI1-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond
http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?search_type_id=4&action_type_id=2&item_id=AB529255&&2.02ct-G-SI1-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond

BlueNile
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01599314
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01226830
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01561426
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01614566
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD01560818
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?$cert$&src={/4/GIA1116101493_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-si1-clarity_LD01594036
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD01524871
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?$cert$&src={/7/GIA2115397561_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-si1-clarity_LD01594073
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?$cert$&src={/1969/GIA2111175639_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?$cert$&src={/2028/GIA2101512204_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/certs/?$cert$&src={/1965/GIA1103592443_zoom.jpeg}&fmt=pdf
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD01421362

 

[stone-cold11]

Much too big a list. Going to take too much effort to go through all of them.

Both the WF looks good

Both GOG stones look good

JA stones, request for idealscope images, JA allows up to 3 for each customer.
1 looks promising, girdle is thick, so some hidden weight.
2 looks promising.
3, 4, 5 might have leakage.

UD 2.04c looks promising from the numbers but it is cut for brilliance not fire, no to the 2.02c. Request for an idealscope image if interested.

BN no image even if you ask for them so not interested in them.

 

[bgray]

2.07 H SI1 61.7% 55% AGS med no id id no 8.20*8.15*5.05 $7831 $16210*S James allen

2.36 I SI1 61.7% 57% AGS - ex ex no 8.53-8.58x5.28 $6184 $14595*S whiteflash

 

[neatfreak]

I have purchased from Engagement Rings Direct, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, and Bluenile.

I can say without fail that the best customer service I received was from Brian Gavin, then ERD, then Whiteflash. I felt I got a good value with all of them.

I would also without a doubt purchase from GOG or High Performance Diamonds. I would put James Allen and Union diamonds at the bottom of my list personally due to their shaky CS sometimes. But others have had great experiences with them too.

Hope that helps!

 

[bgray]

2.26 I VS2 61.7% 57% AGS - no id id no 8.45x8.49x5.23 $6825 $15424*SP usa certed

 

[scott n]

Date: 1/5/2010 1:19:56 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Much too big a list. Going to take too much effort to go through all of them.


Both the WF looks good


Both GOG stones look good


JA stones, request for idealscope images, JA allows up to 3 for each customer.

1 looks promising, girdle is thick, so some hidden weight.

2 looks promising.

3, 4, 5 might have leakage.


UD 2.04c looks promising from the numbers but it is cut for brilliance not fire, no to the 2.02c. Request for an idealscope image if interested.


BN no image even if you ask for them so not interested in them.

of course. this is just my master list, that i will widdle down as I research more.