shape
carat
color
clarity

I would like to vent a bit, and also hopefully get some advice....

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scott n

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
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This is a bit of a long story, but I will try to keep it concise. I have been told that I am very naive. I am a very trustworthy person, and I often get taken advantage by people because I assume they hold themselves to the same standards as i do myself. I am tired of learning hard lessons. I am very upset at myself as I type this.
I have very recently gotten engaged to my perfect match. opposites attract, and I feel it is because they often complement each other well. My fiance is an attorney and my nickname for her is "Wrong Cookie"... as in "you messed with the wrong cookie".

I saved up and bought her what I thought was the perfect ring. I did my research and found what I was my minimum standards before I went shopping. i had my price range in mind and went to a few local jewelers. I set out to get a colorless ring that was 2+ carats. I wanted to ask the salesman about clarity and cut to help guide me toward the best ring within my price range (12,000-17,000). After learning about the different factors I decided on a 2.4 carat, Excellent cut, F color and SI2 clarity. The sales person told me to get a ring in my price range it makes the most sense to slide down the clarity scale. I must say the ring is stunning, but after a few weeks we kept on focusing on the dark inclusions and started to wonder if they were just noticeable to us because we knew where they are located. her being a lawyer it was in her nature to suggest we see an independent appraiser. I was very nervous, and almost felt like if I got ripped off I would prefer not to know. This was something I was proud of and did not want anyone to tell me (or her) that I had made a poor decision on my purchase.

I put on my happy face and went with my fiance this past weekend and we had the diamond evaluated. At this meeting we learned so much and it was well worth the fee for the service. At this meeting I learned about the different rating agencies, and i was appalled that I was not explained this when I was asking my sales person to educate me on purchasing a diamond. The diamond I bought has an EGL cert. I understand they are reputable and a lot of the ratings are interpretations, but I have since found out from many sources that they are more lenient than GIA or AGS (the independent appraiser has both on her resume). As she was running down her opinon I was near tears. every category she rated the diamond at least 1 level lower than I had expected according to EGL. Color F---G; Cut Ideal ---Very Good; Clarity SI1 --- I2. Then came the part where she told me what it was worth. Finding out the diamond I bought was worth $5,000 less than I had paid was enough to make me sick, followed by irate.

The store I bought it from has a 30 day money back guarantee that was expiring that day. Needless to say we went right there and had a bit of a confrontation. I let the "wrong cookie" do the talking and stood behind her getting hopping mad. Luckily she kept her cool, but the team of salespeople admitted no fault. They said that it is not their responsibility to explain the differences between the ratings agencies and after seeing how evasive they were in answering direct questions I now see them for what they are. They would not say if they agree with the EGL report. They did try to discredit the independent appraiser. I wish I had been more educated going it the first time. A lot of the sales techniques now are apparent to me, but did not seem shady at the time. In future posts I can elaborate if anyone is curious.

They were willing to extend the refund policy for me so i can decide what to do. What I do know is that I do not want a ring from them, but I need to find one to replace it before I ask my fiance to take it off her finger and get my $16,000 back.

It looks from my search on this site that I can get a GIA certified ring with the specifications I had thought I was getting for that price. I would hate to compromise down on the size, cut or color since all of our friends and family have been wowed by the flawed ring already. Would I be better off searching for a SI1 the is smaller? G or H color? lower quality cut? I just want to get my money''s worth and not compromise what I thought I had. If anyone has any input for me I would love to make sure my next choice is a perfect one and I will not have any regrets the next time I present her a ring.

Thanks for listening to me vent and I appreciate any input on what I should look for.
 
you dont want to take it off her finger til you find something to replace it with!!!?? I am sorry but that is plain silly. Return the ring ASAP! Get your money back and start over. You can get a wonderful ring for that budget!
 
Well, they are right in that it is not their obligation to explain the difference, but since you are/were within the return period, it doesn't/shouldn't matter.

Also, I don't think you need to wait for a replacement before you return this bad rock. That's just plain silly, and I'm sure "Wrong Cookie" will understand! Just hurry up and get your money back before this place decides to back out of their offer to extend the return period! Then, look for a nice, GIA certified stone, or better yet, let the experts here help you!

Also, for what it's worth, I think going down in clarity to keep size is bad advice. I'd personally go down in color first.
 
1.72 G VS2 61.1% 57% AGS no id id no 7.69*7.73*4.71 $8453 $14540*S
 
So sorry that had such a unfortunate experience. I agree with the PPs in returning the stone ASAP. There are MANY reputable vendors on this site and advise that you select one of them to find your "no regrets" stone. A colorless 2cts in your price range may not be feasible but I am sure a stunning alternative (lower color or weight) is available.

Good luck, think positive and don''t hesitate to ask the PS pros to help locate a sutitable stone for you.
 
Get your money back ASAP. We will help you pick out a diamond and you can get a gorgeous diamond in your price range.
 
I'm so sorry to hear that you went through that. I would definitely return the diamond. Going from from a "colorless" to a "near colorless" and also a SI clairity range to an I clarity range significantly effects the price. When I did a search I found that the diamonds with those specs were around $6,000 - $7,000 from James Allen. Whiteflash has a very nice diamond around $17,000. Go in there ASAP and get your money back otherwise if something happens it's your word against theirs
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http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2133622.htm

I know a lot of the people here can help you pick out an amazing diamond that will blow her away
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After I posted this I did some searching on this site and before I go too much further I would like to get some opinions on clarity. If I want to stay above 2 carats is it alright to get a SI2 clarity? If not how high on the scale should I go to keep the price around $15,000? Would I be better off going down to G or H in color? also on this site can I sort the cut quality?
 
Date: 1/3/2010 10:45:11 PM
Author: sonnyjane
Well, they are right in that it is not their obligation to explain the difference, but since you are/were within the return period, it doesn't/shouldn't matter.

Actually, I believe it IS the obligation of any reputable jeweler to explain basics of diamonds, which includes differences in certification. A jeweler comes from a place of knowledge and authority, and any good jeweler is a GUIDE, not just a salesman. To pull the wool over an unsuspecting client's eyes, especially one dropping five figures, is just plain bad business.

OP, return the ring and get a diamond from a vendor you feel you can trust.
 
I agree with all the other posters. Take the ring back immediately and get your $16,000 refunded. Unless you got their promise to accept the return in writing, they could argue that you are now past the 30-day return period.

If you get your refund, please check back in and let some of our wonderful posters find you a great diamond. That ACA stone Sparkly Blonde posted from Whiteflash may be worth a look, and I''m sure there are others.
 
Date: 1/3/2010 11:02:59 PM
Author: scott n
After I posted this I did some searching on this site and before I go too much further I would like to get some opinions on clarity. If I want to stay above 2 carats is it alright to get a SI2 clarity? If not how high on the scale should I go to keep the price around $15,000? Would I be better off going down to G or H in color? also on this site can I sort the cut quality?

It depends. Some SI2''s can be eyeclean and some aren''t. SI1''s are much more likely to have no visible inclusions.

I would call Brian Gavin diamonds and see what they can do for you. They are WONDERFUL. The exact opposite of the people you have dealt with. Their diamonds are stunning and Leslie is the nicest person ever. She will walk you through the whole process and will have a ring on your fiance''s finger lickety split.


Brian will tell you the truth about whether a stone is eyeclean or not and will help you find the perfect stone.

I think you could probably jump down in color a bit too to save some $. Most people can''t tell the difference between a F and a G or even an H.

But PLEASE go return that ring ASAP. You never know what shady stuff they have going on. Best to go get your $ back and then start shopping.

Other great vendors to work with would be Mark at Engagement Rings Direct (call him for the best service), Jon at Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, and Wink at High Performance Diamonds.
 
per NEATFREAK:

This is all great advice BUT I would not recommend ERD for a round. They are really not cut oriented like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin and GOG.
 
"wrong Cookie" got the extension in writing, so we are good on that front. It was actually amusing watching her explain to them the difference between legal obligations and business ethics.

So far I am loving this site. I really appreciate the knowledge and the helpfulness of this community. Keep it coming. Thanks!
 
Even with the extension in writing, I would take the ring back ASAP and contact one of the recommended vendors to get a new ring. You can have fun doing it together, or you could do it on your own again. Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Brian Gavin will helf you find an amazing ring for your budget that will be worth the slight wait and a few weeks of "naked finger"
9.gif
 
Date: 1/3/2010 11:07:51 PM
Author: Gleam
Date: 1/3/2010 10:45:11 PM

Author: sonnyjane

Well, they are right in that it is not their obligation to explain the difference, but since you are/were within the return period, it doesn''t/shouldn''t matter.


Actually, I believe it IS the obligation of any reputable jeweler to explain basics of diamonds, which includes differences in certification. A jeweler comes from a place of knowledge and authority, and any good jeweler is a GUIDE, not just a salesman. To pull the wool over an unsuspecting client''s eyes, especially one dropping five figures, is just plain bad business.


OP, return the ring and get a diamond from a vendor you feel you can trust.

It is certainly bad business, I just don''t think they have a legal obligation. If they did, I think a lot of B&M''s would be out of business.
 
You can find another more beautiful stone but it will be a challenge to find a 2.4 carat, Excellent cut, F color for $16,000. GIA and AGS stones are going to be more expensive since the grading is more strict. Get your money back and then decide what diamond features are the most important. Impressive size? Excellent cut? High color and clarity? If the carbon specs were bothersome you probably are going to want to find an eye-clean stone. Maybe color isn''t as important. But you will need to compromise on something.

Just something to compare.
2.04ct H SI2
2.042ct I SI1
 
Take the ring back now before its more of a legal headache for your wife-to-be to handle. As a lawyer, she will appreciate clear thinking.

As a romantic, go shopping with her for the new ring...congrats, its your first major decision and crisis together.
 
Get the money back right away to avoid hassels later. THEN get another diamond. These people have already shown they are shady, don''t risk another issue later on.

Ditto Neatfreak.
 
Is it typical for 2 evaluations to be that far off?

EGL
Color - F
Cut - Ideal Excellent hearts and arrows
Clarity - SI2

GIA
Color - G
Cut - Very Good
Clarity - I2

The other big issue is that I have found many EGL reported diamonds with those specifications for much les than I paid. If I assume the independent appraiser is closer with the I2 clarity rating I have found diamonds for half the price I paid.
 
Depends on which EGL lab did the grading, EGL Israel is known to be the worst offender, common to be up to 2 grades off, while those in USA are more on target when compared with AGS/GIA grading.
 
Scott,
You could probably go down to H or maybe even I color in a very well cut stone with no problems to maximize size. Some people on here even own J color diamonds in the 2 + carat range. But J might be a bit too tinted if you've already had an F. Good luck!
 
Ooh, nice diamond Stone-cold! Scott, take a look at that one, killer cut and gorgeous magnified image (the one with fluor).
 
Date: 1/4/2010 8:56:54 AM
Author: Laila619
Ooh, nice diamond Stone-cold! Scott, take a look at that one, killer cut and gorgeous magnified image (the one with fluor).


is flour something I should be concerned about?
 
Date: 1/3/2010 11:12:48 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/3/2010 11:02:59 PM
Author: scott n
After I posted this I did some searching on this site and before I go too much further I would like to get some opinions on clarity. If I want to stay above 2 carats is it alright to get a SI2 clarity? If not how high on the scale should I go to keep the price around $15,000? Would I be better off going down to G or H in color? also on this site can I sort the cut quality?

It depends. Some SI2''s can be eyeclean and some aren''t. SI1''s are much more likely to have no visible inclusions.

I would call Brian Gavin diamonds and see what they can do for you. They are WONDERFUL. The exact opposite of the people you have dealt with. Their diamonds are stunning and Leslie is the nicest person ever. She will walk you through the whole process and will have a ring on your fiance''s finger lickety split.


Brian will tell you the truth about whether a stone is eyeclean or not and will help you find the perfect stone.

I think you could probably jump down in color a bit too to save some $. Most people can''t tell the difference between a F and a G or even an H.

But PLEASE go return that ring ASAP. You never know what shady stuff they have going on. Best to go get your $ back and then start shopping.

Other great vendors to work with would be Mark at Engagement Rings Direct (call him for the best service), Jon at Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, and Wink at High Performance Diamonds.
Very good advice.

Also with EGL grading, it is said that usually EGL USA are the strongest of the EGL labs but overseas branches can be considerably less so, there have been cases where grading has been more than 2 grades lower on appraisal.

I would definitely return the ring and start again, you have a great budget and can get something superb with it.

Other excellent vendors are;

www.niceice.com

www.jamesallen.com

www.exceldiamonds.com
 
Date: 1/4/2010 8:24:14 AM
Author: scott n
Is it typical for 2 evaluations to be that far off?

EGL
Color - F
Cut - Ideal Excellent hearts and arrows
Clarity - SI2

GIA
Color - G
Cut - Very Good
Clarity - I2

The other big issue is that I have found many EGL reported diamonds with those specifications for much les than I paid. If I assume the independent appraiser is closer with the I2 clarity rating I have found diamonds for half the price I paid.
Yep, this is normal. We warn everyone who is looking at an EGL stone that it can be up to 2 levels off (I think we have seen
even more than 2 levels with an EGL Israel stone). Stick with GIA and AGS certs.

You can drop down to an SI2 but it might be hard to find one that is eye-clean. I would also drop the color down to an I to
stay over the 2 carat mark. Do you know if you or your F (WC) are color sensitive?

You can check out this thread. It shows some lower colored stones I/Js with F/G side stones. The F/Gs are small so its not
really a good comparison but you can see that the I/Js still face up pretty white next to the F/Gs.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-i-colored-center-stone-with-f-g-side-stones.114456/

Here is another page that shows side by side comparisons of higher color stoness with H/I/Js.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Color/NearColorless/

Edit - that G that Stone found (with the flour) looks really nice! Talk to the vendor (James Allen) to see if it is eye-clean.
 
Date: 1/4/2010 9:00:26 AM
Author: scott n
Date: 1/4/2010 8:56:54 AM

Author: Laila619

Ooh, nice diamond Stone-cold! Scott, take a look at that one, killer cut and gorgeous magnified image (the one with fluor).

is flour something I should be concerned about?

Depends, a very small numbers can give an oily/hazy look to the stone, ask JA''s gemologist to check it out for you. Other than that, it is a personal preference thing, some like it some don''t. It is discounted in trade heavily for colorless stones but it used to be greatly sought after before the 70s.
 
Date: 1/4/2010 9:00:26 AM
Author: scott n





is flour something I should be concerned about?
Rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but this is very unusual, however it is always best to check with a trusted vendor or appraiser who can inspect the diamond to make sure. Colourless diamonds are often discounted for fluorescence, and much comes down to personal preference. Some enjoy the violety glow that some fluorescent stones can show at times. The G SI1 above has grade making clouds so you would need to check these don't make the stone look cloudy by asking one of the James Allen gemologists to inspect it for you, this isn't always the case but essential to make sure.
 
Scott- I am extremely concerned on your behalf regarding the refund
You WILL be able to find a nice replacement for the 16k
But if you have to sue the store to get your refund it could take years
I would do nothing else TODAY before taking the ring back, getting the check (it''s unlikely they wil give you cash)
and making sure it clears
This seller has proven beyond a doubt they are not worthy of your trust
 
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