I Think People Without Kids Have Empty Lives and I'm Not Sorry

[asscherisme]

OK, I'm starting a new thread for this one. Riffing off the "family prefix" thread, what this writer actually says is that there is NO CHANCE that non-parents lives are as good as parents' lives. No chance!! It made me feel pretty bad, and I'm mostly fine with not having them!

"It’s a perfectly fine choice to never become a parent, but there is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful, or that you will learn as many essential truths about existence, as you would if you had kids."

Parents? Is this true?? I never thought so, but the writer is so insistent, it brought up a ton of doubts.

I Think People Without Kids Have Empty Lives And I’m Not Sorry About It

There is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful as you would if you had kids.

thoughtcatalog.com

I am a mother of four and I think that is absolute bull. Just because I CHOOSE to have my children does not mean it is the right choice for someone else.

I absolutely believe you can have a fulfilling life without kids. I love my kids more than anything,but I will admit that it is easy to lose who you are when you are raising kids. I did lose myself for a long long time. Especially as a single mother, I literally had no time for myself and everything I did was about taking care of my kids. It is very hard raising kids. Very hard. And when you have kids that have health issues and developmental delays, it can suck the life out of you. And it did. For years until I learned balance and my kids got older.

Someone not wanting kids does not make them a better or worse person than someone who wants kids. The beauty of life is that we can make choices that are right for us.

I think that those who have kids because they feel pressured by society but they don't really want kids in the first place puts an unfair burden on those kids who are born out of obligation rather than choice.

My adult son has told me he does not want kids. I would never pressure him or tell him he is wrong. All that would do is create a divide between him and me. I respect his choice, just as I would respect it if he changed his mind. He does not have the temperament or patience to be a parent. Who knows what the future will bring, but that is his choice to make and not mine to try to influence.

 

[missy]

Missy, I think that is interesting about your sister. I have two girls. My oldest (who is beautiful, smart, compassionate, actually worked as a babysitter and was wonderful at it) has told me already starting around age 15 that she most likely will not have kids. For environmental reasons. It makes me a little sad because I think she would be a wonderful mother, but it is her choice, and I do agree that the number of people on this planet is preventing other creatures from living. I realize that my wish for her to have kids, is a selfish one for me.

My youngest is the opposite. From a pretty young age she has always been interested in babies. She is only 13 but has been telling me for the last couple years she knows what she wants to do, and that is to have at least 2 kids. She has been bugging me so she can take the course so she can babysit very young kids. She wants to learn how to clean. How to cook and make meals, and that is often followed by, "so when I have a house, or when I have a family I can take care of them." I was so NOT like this when I was that age it's rather eerie.

Your kids mirror my sister's and my experience growing up. From when we were very young (4 and 6 years old IIRC) my sister was passionate about wanting children (and also about becoming a veterinarian which also came true) and I was just as passionate not wanting them. Isn't that funny how we share similar genetic material but are quite different in so many ways. Same as your kids.

And of course it is still too early to know what will happen with your kids re having children or not I agree with your philosophy. You have to let them follow their own dreams and be their own person and that is still evolving and changing.

 

[voce]

This is a load of smelly BS. Maybe the author could only confront "essential truths about existence" if it was starting get in the face as a baby.

Philosophers spend their time thinking essential truths about existence all the time, and most of the famous ones have not had kids. I wouldn't say they have empty lives, I think the author has an empty mind because she is so unimaginative, denying any kind of love except for parental love, and fulfillment that can come from intellect. I don't believe that status and careers can produce as much joy as a kid, but furbabies and a rich intellectual world can make your life just as meaningful.

 

[partgypsy]

I think there are many ways to live a meaningful existence. It is unimaginative to think having a baby is the only way to do it. And I think peoples work or career or passion can be deeply meaningful to some.

 

[missy]

I think there are many ways to live a meaningful existence. It is unimaginative to think having a baby is the only way to do it. And I think peoples work or career or passion can be deeply meaningful to some.

Or passion for volunteering for causes close to one’s heart. Leaving the world a little better for having been in it. #goals

Hoping the children of today and tomorrow become wonderful adults giving back and make this world a better place. And finding the cure for disease and war. #peace #goodhealth

 

[dk168]

I never had the calling, no biological clock to speak.

My mum dearly wanted grandchildren, however, for one reason or another, all 3 of us are childless, and all 3 of us have or had fur kids instead.

DK

 

[PreRaphaelite]

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. Don't want to give the 'clicks' to the author.

When I was young and married, we thought we would like to have kids someday... if we could save up enough money. We couldn't. So we didn't. The pressure from other people was ridiculous! We were being responsible by not just assuming that "things would work out" if we went ahead. We both had strong ideas about the minimum quality of life that should be secured for them before we brought kids into the world (oh you know, enough food, enough health care, enough schooling, enough... enough). We just couldn't get there. It didn't work out anyway, so at least the kids didn't have to suffer a family breakdown and divorce as my brothers and I did when our parents split.

Later, as a single person, I didn't want kids at all. I could barely take care of myself; how could I take care of a child, all on my own? In conversation, a family member tried to shame me for that. "You'll change your mind," he said, "when you mature."

I'd like to think making my fecundity conditional upon my finances *was me being mature*.

 

[arkieb1]

Just because people CAN have children, doesn't mean they SHOULD have children. As a former teacher I can honestly say lots of people have children that shouldn't have them, because they put themselves, their addictions and so on before their kids.

This stupid woman's argument is fundamentally flawed because she makes a heap of incorrect assumptions, like every person that has kids will be a good parent (they aren't), every person that has kids will put them first (they don't), every person that has kids will have some far reaching life epiphany (I'd guess many of them do not), somehow having kids will magically motivate everyone to get a better job, better house, quit being an alcoholic, quit junk food and or quit drugs (O.K maybe some people do that but I've seen firsthand many parents that do not)....

So I call BS on the whole thing. All it says it me is that SHE had an empty life before kids. Me I travelled, I worked, I took more risks, I did a heap of stuff before kids, my life was good before, sometimes bad stuff happened, it is good now, sometimes bad stuff still happens - I don't even feel the need to compare then versus now - I think of it as a continuous line of learning stuff about myself, the world and people in it.

 

[Laila619]

DH and I both have several family members who don’t have kids and don’t want any. I sometimes feel a bit sad for them because I know they would be terrific and loving parents, but it’s their choice to make and they are quite happy. Whenever they get together with us and our 5 kids, they are so relieved to get back home to their peace and quiet!

 

[chemgirl]

I know people who wish they didn’t have kids. They’re pretty miserable and try to pawn their kids off on other people. A few marriages have broken down because one partner felt forced into having kids. One friend in particular said it ruined her life.

I think people are more willing to talk with me about it because I don’t have kids by choice.

Kids can enrich your life, but parenthood isn’t for everyone!

 

[asscherisme]

I know people who wish they didn’t have kids. They’re pretty miserable and try to pawn their kids off on other people. A few marriages have broken down because one partner felt forced into having kids. One friend in particular said it ruined her life.

I think people are more willing to talk with me about it because I don’t have kids by choice.

Kids can enrich your life, but parenthood isn’t for everyone!

There is absolutely a stigma that once you have kids, you have to pretend that your life is perfect and you have zero questioning about your life. Its all rainbows and unicorns. I think that people being allowed to admit having bad days and questioning life choices in a safe imprisonment is healthy for all.

 

[cmd2014]

Wow. What a twit. I love how people feel that they personally have had some kind of epiphany and then think that no one who hasn't experienced what they have will ever feel the same way. There are many ways people can find meaning in life. Having children is just one. There are many ways to learn empathy and selflessness and compassion and the capacity to care for someone else, and I really, really hope that the vast majority of people who choose to have children have those characteristics BEFORE they have children, rather than hoping for the best after.

 

[deorwine]

I've heard this from friends, I think it is an extremely presumptuous thing to say, not to mention incredibly rude to people who want to have kids but can't.

I've seen parenthood totally change a few people but to be frank those folks were on the self centered side before. most people i know didn't find hidden depths as parents, just new priorities.

Based on the quotes (bc I'm not gonna read the article) I'm guessing this person was not so self aware before parenthood, and still has some room to go.... :/

Yes THIS. TBH I'm a pretty self-centered person, and for me parenthood did teach me things it's possible I wouldn't have learned otherwise. I like to say I'm on the "remedial track" for self-awareness, lol!

But I know so many amazing people, both with and without kids, who were and are way further along that path than I am, and have done amazing things, and didn't need kids to become much better and lovelier people than I am.

Personally -- and speaking as a parent -- I also think having kids is fundamentally, deeply, selfish, on a base genetic level. We are wired to want to have kids to propagate our own genes. And (as long as it doesn't go too far) that's a good thing! If people didn't have kids for their own selfish reasons, our species would die out. But don't go telling me it's some kind of super altruistic thing.

(Also, I think people who haven't sung in a choir standing in mixed formation and doing polyphony have empty lives. Empty!! It’s a perfectly fine choice not to sing polyphony, but there is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful, or that you will learn as many essential truths about existence!! ...Just kidding of course!! But the thing is, it's also kind of true. I bet every single one of us here has something that is special to us, that has taught us things we can't articulate, that not everyone can share. Like my friends who run marathons tell me it's a deeply meaningful experience for them, and I am just never eeeeever going to experience that. And that's OK!)

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

One friend in particular said it ruined her life.

Eeeerm, she ruined her life all by herself there. I guess a person like this could likely not be happy. Pretty unfair to blame one's kids. They didn't chose. She did.

That said I'm 100% team @arkieb1 regarding the article and of course people can question the details of their choices in a safe environment, like @asscherisme suggests. But it's always convenient to blame someone else for one's misery. Nobody in our culture is forced to have children, tg. So if one chooses to do so, one should give it a lot of thought.
When in doubt, maybe don't. But don't say the kids ruined your life afterwards. Talk about hurtful and traumatic for her children. Because let's face it: they are more empathetic than adults and they will know.

 

[chemgirl]

Eeeerm, she ruined her life all by herself there. I guess a person like this could likely not be happy. Pretty unfair to blame one's kids. They didn't chose. She did.

That said I'm 100% team @arkieb1 regarding the article and of course people can question the details of their choices in a safe environment, like @asscherisme suggests. But it's always convenient to blame someone else for one's misery. Nobody in our culture is forced to have children, tg. So if one chooses to do so, one should give it a lot of thought.
When in doubt, maybe don't. But don't say the kids ruined your life afterwards. Talk about hurtful and traumatic for her children. Because let's face it: they are more empathetic than adults and they will know.

She didn’t want kids. Her husband decided he wanted them after marriage. He begged her. Her parents talked about how she would love her own children even if she hates kids in general. Guess what? She doesn’t enjoy being around her own kid. She left her husband. She gets her kid every other weekend. She complains about it. Her kid suffers. Why? Because societal pressures to have children. She’s a doctor and very active in the community. She has a full life. She should never have given in to pressure. I feel bad for her child. I also feel bad for her.

Another friend sent her 2 year old to China for 6 months to live with her family because she couldn’t handle her anymore. She partied it up and went on vacations. She was dreading getting the kid back.

We also know 3 different couples where the husband left after having kids. All of a sudden their lives are boring and their wives don’t pay attention to them anymore. It’s ridiculous, but clearly they shouldn’t have had kids. Now they’re weekend dads and take the kids out to events and post all over social media. Grandma and the new girlfriend take over most of the responsibilities. They’ll say their kids are their life, but they don’t exactly take an active role so...

Some people shouldn’t have children. It doesn’t make them miserable and awful people. It would be way better if society didn’t pressure people to have kids when they don’t actually want to have them. It’s not fair to anyone.

 

[ksinger]

Yes THIS. TBH I'm a pretty self-centered person, and for me parenthood did teach me things it's possible I wouldn't have learned otherwise. I like to say I'm on the "remedial track" for self-awareness, lol!

But I know so many amazing people, both with and without kids, who were and are way further along that path than I am, and have done amazing things, and didn't need kids to become much better and lovelier people than I am.

Personally -- and speaking as a parent -- I also think having kids is fundamentally, deeply, selfish, on a base genetic level. We are wired to want to have kids to propagate our own genes. And (as long as it doesn't go too far) that's a good thing! If people didn't have kids for their own selfish reasons, our species would die out. But don't go telling me it's some kind of super altruistic thing.

(Also, I think people who haven't sung in a choir standing in mixed formation and doing polyphony have empty lives. Empty!! It’s a perfectly fine choice not to sing polyphony, but there is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful, or that you will learn as many essential truths about existence!! ...Just kidding of course!! But the thing is, it's also kind of true. I bet every single one of us here has something that is special to us, that has taught us things we can't articulate, that not everyone can share. Like my friends who run marathons tell me it's a deeply meaningful experience for them, and I am just never eeeeever going to experience that. And that's OK!)

Amen to that! I would only add a couple of things: Or practiced tuning by one third of the (very small) choir holding a pitch, while one third goes up by half steps and the other third does the same going down, then steps back to the original pitch. Being in that mass of pulsating, beating sound can't be understood unless you're in it. (And not tone-deaf of course. If you're tone-deaf you're not going to "get it".) Also just kidding. Sort of.

My husband and I did not have kids due to reasons. But the idea little Miss Lack-of-imagination is putting forth, that simply procreating somehow makes you a better person, or more loving, or wiser, or reveals the secrets of the cosmos, well, after the hubs snorted, he said, "Ask anyone who has been in the classroom for a decade or more and they'll all tell you that they KNOW that isn't true because they deal every day with the kids you've effed up."

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

She didn’t want kids. Her husband decided he wanted them after marriage. He begged her. Her parents talked about how she would love her own children even if she hates kids in general. Guess what? She doesn’t enjoy being around her own kid. She left her husband. She gets her kid every other weekend. She complains about it. Her kid suffers. Why? Because societal pressures to have children. She’s a doctor and very active in the community. She has a full life. She should never have given in to pressure. I feel bad for her child. I also feel bad for her.

Another friend sent her 2 year old to China for 6 months to live with her family because she couldn’t handle her anymore. She partied it up and went on vacations. She was dreading getting the kid back.

We also know 3 different couples where the husband left after having kids. All of a sudden their lives are boring and their wives don’t pay attention to them anymore. It’s ridiculous, but clearly they shouldn’t have had kids. Now they’re weekend dads and take the kids out to events and post all over social media. Grandma and the new girlfriend take over most of the responsibilities. They’ll say their kids are their life, but they don’t exactly take an active role so...

Some people shouldn’t have children. It doesn’t make them miserable and awful people. It would be way better if society didn’t pressure people to have kids when they don’t actually want to have them. It’s not fair to anyone.

Yes, @chemgirl , I absolutely think the same. Those are horrible examples because the children suffer. However, "societal pressure" is IMHO a very lame excuse. She was an adult , right? And I can see myself giving in to my husband wanting a pool table when I'm not really on board with that idea. But the table won't suffer as a consequence of my actions.
The children do.

This comes from a person who's plan for life never ever included children. I wasn't strongly opposed, but it was not on my plan. DH wanted children and we talked about it. I thought long and hard about myself, babysat a lot and then decided to have children. It's not a secret that it's going to be challenging and exhausting.

 

[chemgirl]

Yes, @chemgirl , I absolutely think the same. Those are horrible examples because the children suffer. However, "societal pressure" is IMHO a very lame excuse. She was an adult , right? And I can see myself giving in to my husband wanting a pool table when I'm not really on board with that idea. But the table won't suffer as a consequence of my actions.
The children do.

This comes from a person who's plan doe life never ever included children. I wasn't strongly opposed, but it was not on my plan. DH wanted children and we talked about it. I thought long and hard about myself, babysat a lot and then decided to have children. It's not a secret that it's going to be challenging and exhausting.

I can see where she was coming from. Her husband says he needs a child to feel full filled. She loved him and wanted him to be happy. Add on some fear that he’ll leave and find someone else to have children with. Then there’s the people telling her that she’ll bond with her baby. The stories about how you’ll feel a wave of emotion the first time you hold your baby. She made the decision to go for it and then she literally felt nothing for this poor child. She feels depressed, lied to, and defective as a woman. She is intensely bothered by the fact that she can’t feel the “normal” feelings she that everyone says you’re supposed to feel for your child.

Yes she could have said no, but i can also understand why she said yes.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

She made the decision to go for it and then she literally felt nothing for this poor child. She feels depressed, lied to, and defective as a woman.

Actually this sounds like a text book description of postpartum depression.

 

[chemgirl]

Actually this sounds like a text book description of postpartum depression.

It’s been 10 years. Maybe it is postpartum. I don’t know enough about it.

I think I have empathy because the idea of having a kid is literally the worst to me. I was once accidentally pregnant and was beyond relieved when the pregnancy wasn’t viable (birth control failed). My therapist couldn’t believe I wasn’t grieving. I was happy (and DH had a vasectomy). She’s really the only friend who understood my feelings.

Some people should never have children and I’m definitely one of them. I don’t know if I would bond with a child.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

It’s been 10 years. Maybe it is postpartum. I don’t know enough about it.

I think I have empathy because the idea of having a kid is literally the worst to me. I was once accidentally pregnant and was beyond relieved when the pregnancy wasn’t viable (birth control failed). My therapist couldn’t believe I wasn’t grieving. I was happy (and DH had a vasectomy). She’s really the only friend who understood my feelings.

Some people should never have children and I’m definitely one of them. I don’t know if I would bond with a child.

And I absolutely have deep respect for you because you know yourself so well. I'm saying this all the time. Know yourself and act accordingly.

One of my oldest friends never wanted children. We're still close friends 20 years later. I have six kids, she has none. We both get a lot if BS for our decisions from people who should just stay out of other people's business. It has never been an issue between me and any of my childfree friends, btw. The only person who had to distance herself from me for a while was my friend who desperately wanted children, but had multiple miscarriages. For a while I could see that my presence even without the children or mentioning them was painful. So we both limited our contact. My having multiple children isn't painful to her anymore and we're back to a close friendship.

 

[telephone89]

I wonder if this video will work

 

[kenny]

Hilarious!

 

[Hikari]

OK, I'm starting a new thread for this one. Riffing off the "family prefix" thread, what this writer actually says is that there is NO CHANCE that non-parents lives are as good as parents' lives. No chance!! It made me feel pretty bad, and I'm mostly fine with not having them!

"It’s a perfectly fine choice to never become a parent, but there is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful, or that you will learn as many essential truths about existence, as you would if you had kids."

Parents? Is this true?? I never thought so, but the writer is so insistent, it brought up a ton of doubts.

I Think People Without Kids Have Empty Lives And I’m Not Sorry About It

There is absolutely no chance that your life will be as full or meaningful as you would if you had kids.

thoughtcatalog.com

Ridiculous!! Someone’s life is full if they are doing what they love. There are people that know without a doubt that they don’t want to be a parent. I’m sure they look at parents and think “thank god I didn’t do that!”

 

[canuk-gal]

Multiples of this type of thread never finds anything of calm. Or relevance.

Hell in a hand basket...…….. ----------------------

 

[AGBF]

My daughter's fiancé was the victim of abuse as a child, both sexual and physical in other (horrible) ways. He was then put into a cruel, horrible foster care system (at age 6) where he often went unfed and cried constantly for the mother who had abused him. He suffers from PTSD. He has been homeless. He has been to prison. Care to guess whether I think every person needs to have children?

 

[AGBF]

There is absolutely a stigma that once you have kids, you have to pretend that your life is perfect and you have zero questioning about your life. Its all rainbows and unicorns. I think that people being allowed to admit having bad days and questioning life choices in a safe imprisonment is healthy for all.

And sometimes one winds up with a special needs kid that throws one's marriage into a state of chaos. I believe that this was discussed many years ago on Pricescope. I have one special needs child. I know many other Pricescopers also do. When I was teaching middle school about ten years ago I was given a book by my department head to use with my students.

It is a beautiful, but bittersweet, story of a little girl with special needs who comes home from an institution where she has been living. Her antics throw her family, which consists of parents and a brother, into chaos. Her father just cannot adjust to what she does to the household. her brother, who if I remember correctly is the narrator, has a very hard time. It is so realistic that it just jumped at me..

 

[jaaron]

I wonder if this video will work

That's hilarious. As someone who has killed basically every plant I've ever been in close proximity to, I'm sticking to kids.

 

[cmd2014]

I can see where she was coming from. Her husband says he needs a child to feel full filled. She loved him and wanted him to be happy. Add on some fear that he’ll leave and find someone else to have children with. Then there’s the people telling her that she’ll bond with her baby. The stories about how you’ll feel a wave of emotion the first time you hold your baby. She made the decision to go for it and then she literally felt nothing for this poor child. She feels depressed, lied to, and defective as a woman. She is intensely bothered by the fact that she can’t feel the “normal” feelings she that everyone says you’re supposed to feel for your child.

Yes she could have said no, but i can also understand why she said yes.

It's such a dangerous myth that women who don't like/don't get/aren't drawn to children in general will somehow feel this flood of love for their own child that will suddenly turn them into a maternal person capable of managing the demands of raising a child (and not only that, but will make them love doing it). Why can't we (as a society) accept that motherhood is just not for everyone? And the harm this causes to everybody involved when it's too late to turn back is irreparable. Honestly, we accept that not all men are suited to being a father, why can't we offer the same courtesy to women? I feel awful for your friend. I imagine she feels awful too.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think, we as a society do think motherhood is not for everyone. This is just a woman who is giving her opinion on a facet of life. I notice that Missy has a quote that says something like,anyone who has not loved an animal, a part of ones soul remains unawakened. This is her opinion on a facet of life that is important to her. The feelings are just expressions of the opinions of those persons writing them.

Jambalya, I think you may be feeing a bit perhaps lonely, or out of sorts and these words are hitting a vulnerable spot. Believe me, children are no walk in the park. They look lovely when sleeping. I went thru a bad time years ago and I found thta children made me feel better. So when I was feeling doWN I used to borrow children. (not teens) ages 4-7. They make me feel good, especially knowing I can return them.
If you want to do a bit of family time, borrow a child alone without the parents. They should make you smile. Children belong to everybody. They too are separate from their parents. I have in the past developed nice relationships with children. If you have those, you are not missing anything. Enjoy what you have. I hope you feel better. Get a hug from a kid.

Annette