I know this has been asked a million times......

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 5:26:13 PM spicolicpa wrote:





Aljdewey:

I am glad thats cleared up.

I just get very sick of people saying 'Buyer Beware' as if this takes all responsibility off the seller.


----------------

Understood.

Understood because I'm equally sick of people saying that ALL the responsibility is on the seller and the buyer bears none.

Hey, F&I......how am I doin' with that "horse" thang?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 5:26:13 PM spicolicpa wrote:











'Since you purport that they are so abundant, perhaps you can tell us how many stones can you find *right now* that meet these criteria:'

Is this directed at me??? 'Right Now!!'...??...check that at the door please....Did I ruffle some feathers? :O)

No.....again, you take my post in the wrong vein. Right now, meaning available at this moment as opposed to what's been available over the last two months. Seriously.....you need to chill out and stop looking for ill intent where there is none.

I never said there was an abundance....do your homework they are out there and the end result is a fantastic deal

No, you didn't say there was an abundance. You suggested that B&M stores *won't* carry .9x stones because they want the higher sale. I replied that they don't carry them because they aren't that readily available. You suggested otherwise, hence my reply. I maintain that it is not easy to come by a .9x carat stone in the G-I, SI1, well-cut range.

Ah.......do the homework.....as in "become informed" as a customer? What a novel ideal......now you're talking my language!

----------------

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/15/2003 3:12:09 PM fire&ice wrote:

Also, many people request the 1c as a mark.

A B&M can not legally represent a .92 stone as a carat. Too much explaining for them & a hassle to carry. ----------------

Exactly tell me what's so pro seller about this comment?

Do you think the consumer is privledged? Do you think that a seller should hold in it's inventory a stone that one in every 300 people walking into the store would request. Tying up money when they could buy something that is an easier sell?

Think what you want. Excuses have to be made to the general public about the *fact* that the diamond is indeed not a carat. Very few consumers would understand that the mm & dimensions may be the same. I'll bet one out of 50 people who buy diamonds even know that diamonds marks are actually made up of points. They just see .50 .75 1.0.

You are giving *way* to much credit to the general buying public. *WAY* to much.

 

[spicolicpa]

Free market is great. If you dont like it go somewhere else.

Stop whinning about how hard it is to be a seller. This is wayy wayy off topic, but I dont feel like working so I will play along for one more repsonse.

If you dont like buyers asking questions and making your life hard, treat them like this guy did and you will soon resolve your problem....a closed sign in your window.


Oh and "I'll bet one out of 50 people who buy diamonds even know that diamonds marks are actually made up of points. They just see .50 .75 1.0."

Made up of points? I thought .5 represented 1/2 a ct. ....75 3/4 of a ct.

See I gotta stand up for the ignorant as I am really just protecting myself.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 5:47:42 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 10/15/2003 3:12:09 PM fire&ice wrote:

Also, many people request the 1c as a mark.

A B&M can not legally represent a .92 stone as a carat. Too much explaining for them & a hassle to carry. ----------------

Exactly tell me what's so pro seller about this comment?


----------------

You never answered my question.

Sorry, your dogged pursuit that I am someone I am not is laughable.

If indeed you are a small business owner, why would a retailer carry a stone that is not in demand? Thus, tying up valuable opportunity cost in carry a stone that is an easier sell.

Business 101

 

[spicolicpa]

Funny I feel you keep nippin at my heels....

If you think that Attilla The Seller who scared the customer into not wanting to call him back is your idea of OK, take your money to him...please

Look how do you know that a .90-.99 stone is so Undiserable that no one will buy it? Have you done some massive market search today? I am suggesting (Simple business 101 for you) that why sell a product whose markup is less when you can sell stones and get a premium for them?

Why pay a premium when you do not have to>?

What up with the points. .5 does not mean one half a ct.?

Someone said "There is an expert born every minute"

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 6:08:53 PM spicolicpa wrote:

See I gotta stand up for the ignorant as I am really just protecting myself.
----------------

You're missing the point, Spicol.

Maybe this will help. Go to the mall this weekend and stand outside a jewelry store. Stop 20 different people who appear to be heading into the jewelry store and ask them to answer the following questions for you.

What is the crown of a diamond? What is the pavilion?

What is the culet?

Why are crown/pavilion angles important? What do they affect?

If a diamond is 66 points, what size is it?

What is the typical diameter of a well-cut, 1 carat diamond?

What is the concern with a thick girdle? What is the concern with a thin one?

What does the color "H" mean? What does the clarity I1 mean?

Which is the better cut diamond: .92 carat, 6.28mm, H, SI1 OR 1.01, 6.28mm, G, VS2?

What does AGS 0 mean?

Approximately how much should a 1ct, H, SI1, AGS0 diamond cost?

My point: most people will have NO idea what you're talking about. Most of them see the ads for Zale that show 1 ct diamonds for $3999, and they think that's what it's supposed to cost. That's what F&I has been saying (and me, too, for that matter.) A significant majority of the buying public doesn't know....and doesn't want to take the time to learn, either. These are the same people who are later miffed when someone who knows better tells them they overpaid for their stone....and they then believe that they were fleeced by the vendor. Guess what....you can't fleece someone who knows what they're doing!

Those who do eventually end up in places like this one, where they learned more than they ever thought possible about diamonds.

Even more fun......take those same questions in to 10 jewelry stores, and ask the first clerk who approach you to answer them (without help from anyone else in the store.) Most of them can't do it either!

(Oh, and let me know which questions above you need to get answers for.)

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/15/2003 6:24:44 PM spicolicpa wrote:






What up with the points?
----------------

You've asked that twice. Are you telling us that you don't know what a point is?

 

[spicolicpa]

If a diamond is 66 points, what size is it?

Ummm this means its .66 cts. right?

Man I always hated pop quizes....

4k for a 1 ct is not such a bad price depending on its cut...this could be a very good price as a matter of fact!

Anyway I realize that Pricescope more than DT, but the internet in general has created a customer than is better informed.

10 years ago I would not have been able to have access to a .92 Super Ideal Cut stone...

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/15/2003 6:45:12 PM spicolicpa wrote:

4k for a 1 ct is not such a bad price depending on its cut...this could be a very good price as a matter of fact!----------------

See....you've just proved my point precisely about lack of knowledge. $4K for a well cut diamond is a HORRIBLE price.....not because it's over priced, but because it's SOOOO underpriced that the stone cannot possibly be a well-cut diamond.

NO sane, SOBER vendor would be willing to sell a well-cut 1 ct. GIA/AGS certed stone for $4K in the G/H, SI1 range if it has an AGL/GIA cert. Not even close.

Could consumers get a 1 ct diamond for $3999? Sure they can. Will it be well-cut. Not even remotely close. Will most customers even know any better? Not even remotely close.

 

[spicolicpa]

Phew-
You checked me there..I did my homework --LORD knows I did. But still there is always that fear in the back of your head...could I have gotten a better deal?

 

[Mara]

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On 10/15/2003 4:58:37 PM spicolicpa wrote:


Mara-
Do your homework and keep looking I just bought a .92 superbcert at a wonderfull price, probably 1/4 less than a full ct!

----------------

Congrats..that sounds lovely..I am sure you did all your homework and really got the best deal you could. As did I. I don't need to do my homework and keep looking..I already bought my lovely stone. Maybe if *you* did your homework and researched my previous posts...you would know this?

As AL noted, there are only a handful of stones out there in that range that are going to be excellently cut, therefore making it harder for the average joe who wants a well cut stone but doesn't want to live-eat-breathe diamonds for 3 months to find it. If you search for slightly over 1c..you will find tons. It's a simple fact that there aren't as many 'light carats' out there as there are carats and above.

Of course it all comes down to the educated consumer. I don't like pointing the fingers at sellers, not when I know that I didn't do all my homework. It is the consumer's responsibility to know what they are buying. Be suspicious. Think everyone is out to screw you. I may really like a vendor and want to work with them, but that doesn't mean that suspicious numbers or a 'too low' price won't raise my radar. It doesn't mean that I won't get that diamond appraised and find out for sure if its what I ordered. It doesn't meant the seller is blameless, but if you expect someone else to do your work for you...you will eventually be rather disappointed.

The general public is a scary bunch. The people that come here for help or to get educated are probably 1% of diamond buyers out there. I have a friend who's engaged, found out his gf did not like her ring, told her to find one she liked and he'd get it. She found one on some random diamonds by israel or similar website, pre-set..he ordered it and never even got it appraised, or mentioned a cert or anything. Very scary. When he told me this, I bit my tongue. Actually I told him to get it appraised, just in case, but I didn't say what I wanted to which was...SUCKER.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/15/2003 6:24:44 PM spicolicpa wrote:

Look how do you know that a .90-.99 stone is so Undiserable that no one will buy it? Have you done some massive market search today? I am suggesting (Simple business 101 for you) that why sell a product whose markup is less when you can sell stones and get a premium for them?

Why pay a premium when you do not have to>?

What up with the points. .5 does not mean one half a ct.?

Someone said 'There is an expert born every minute' ----------------

You don't get it. Most people do not shop for diamonds by points. Most people shop for diamonds by carat weight. - i.e. 1/2 carat 3/4 carat 1 carat. Period. A seller is not able to represent a .66 as 3/4. A seller is not able to represent a .93 diamond as a carat. They are marks. While *you* may see the value in a .93 stone, most will just know it's *not* 1 carat & reject it flat out.

Yes, this is proven market stuff. How long have you been shopping for diamonds? How long has diamond shopping existed?

And yes, *many* will pay a premium for a mark. I looked at "off carat" stones. I wanted to pass my stone on & it was important to me that on paper it said 3.01 carats. And, I buy for a living & would not be able to make a living if I was not a savvy buyer.

 

[PrincessClyde]

O.k. so guys which one do you like???

Round Brilliant .657 ct H SI 1
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
5.56 x 5.59 x3.46
Crown Angle - 34.1
Pavillion Angle - 41
Culet - pt
Table - 55
Depth - 62.1
Girdle - .9-1.6
for $1537

or

Round Brilliant .68 ct G SI 1
Polish - Ideal
Symm - Ideal
Crown Angle - 34.3
Pavillion Angle - 41.1
Culet - pt
Table - 55
Depth - 62.8
Girdle - .9-1.9
for $1882

 

[aljdewey]

EDITED TO CORRECT INFORMATION:




Hi, PC: I'd choose the .65 stone......slightly better cut, white color (G and H are BOTH defined as near-colorless), and MUCH better price for essentially the same size stone.




The .657 scores a 1.5 on the HCA and gives you practically the same weight stone for $350 less (which is a significant savings at this price point).




The .68 stone doesn't score as well on the HCA at 2.5. While the color is one grade better, I honestly don't think you'll be able to discern that with the unaided eye, and even less so when it's set.




I'd choose the .65 stone......slightly better cut, white color (G and H are BOTH defined as near-colorless), and MUCH better price for essentially the same size stone.

 

[Mara]

If you can afford it, I would go with #2. The HCA score is better and the color score is better one grade as well--I have a G and I love it. The difference is not that much in $$, but again...if your budget is really tight, the #1 stone would probably work fine as well. It depends on your priorities and your money IMO.




Best of luck!

 

[aljdewey]

YIKES......you're right....I did.




The #1 stone scores 1.5, the #2 stone scores 2.5.




In that case, I'd definitely take the #1 stone! Better score and less money, and the H won't look any different from the G when set.

 

[Mara]

Oooh update to my post too then....I would choose #1--its cheaper and the HCA score is better...

Figure if you get two out of three...its a good thing..Hee Hee.