I know this has been asked a million times......

[PrincessClyde]

I''ve been checking out websites and reading some of the posts, but I am still confused. I would really appreciate some help!!!

My boyfriend is hopefully proposing soon, but first he needs a ring. He is a typical guy (sorry - don''t mean to offend). He just buys the first thing he sees that seems a good deal. I am the opposite. I spend hours and hours searching for the best deal. That is what I definitely want in a diamond.

We have a very limited budget. No more than $2K on the diamond ($1500 would be even better). We are looking to buy on the internet because of the great deals. From what I''ve seen, we will end up with a diamond between .6 and .7 carats. Of course, the bigger the better! But just how much do I sacrifice on the others?

From what I''ve seen in other posts, cut is most important. But if I didn''t get the absolute finest with cut, what would you think the minimum should be?

Next, I''ve seen various replies to whether cut or clarity is most important. I am torn between going as low as I in color and having a VS1 clarity or if I should try for a little better color and go down to a SI1 in clarity.
Most seem to think the latter. But I''ve been reading up on a lot of information, and that tells me not to worry so much about color, but instead go for a better clarity because that effects how much the diamond sparkles.

I know my best idea is to go look at actual diamonds, but until I get time for that, any advice offered would be SO appreciated.

I don''t need a huge diamond (obviously it won''t be due to our budget), but I don''t want it to be tiny either. And I do want it to sparkle.

Oh, my setting will have side diamonds. Will that make the center diamond look smaller or larger?

Last but not least, we''re looking at getting a setting online too. Anyone who has done that before? Good sites/badsites? I''ve found a couple I like on bluenile (platinum) and I know that is reputable. But how about dirtcheapdiamonds??

Any thoughts?????!!!!!!!!!?????????


Thanx so much!!!

 

[Hest88]

The clarity does not affect the sparkle, unless the clarity is really abysmal. *Cut* is what affects the clarity above all else, no matter what you may have read.

Since it sounds like you're going for a simple setting, I'd just buy the setting at the same place you get the stone. Most settings are stock settings that most jewelers can get.

Side diamonds can make the center stone look smaller, but you'll have a greater overall effect.

Personally, and I know most people don't like doing this, I'd read the boards, pick a few vendors I think I can trust, email them with my requirements, and see what they can do. I never understand why consumers insist on doing the initial legwork when the experts can do it so much more efficiently AND you can use it to gauge their customer service skills.

 

[Giangi]

If you want size and nice look, get a very good or ideal cut J/SI 2. At this size it should appear whit and eye-clean and you'll end up getting a BIG diamond!

On the other points, I agree with Hest. Great minds think alike.

 

[TheDiamondangel]

Heck, if you happen to love warmer stones like I do, you could even go to a K with an SI1 or SI2, and get a fantastic looking stone!

I found a J, .61 VS2 on www.superbcert for $1,242.57
.......... http://www.superbcert.com/images/products/large/614.jpg

A K, .76 VVS2 at Good Old Gold for $2,381
.......... http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_76ct_k_vvs2__h%26a.htm

 

[Giangi]

DiamondAngel pointed out a few very nice stones! This is what I'd look for! Excellent, ideal cut, a recognized grading report to make sure you're getting a J-K and not an O-P I 1 and a good color/clarity combo. You may be able to save great bucks and get a stone that looks nicer than an F/VVS 1 with a medium/fair cut.

Look what I found on goodoldgold's H&A list... These are not in stock, but Johnatan can get them at your request.

0.602 J SI1 1399.053 1149.223 0 61.3 57 34.4 41 0.9-1.8 N 5.41-5.45*3.33 link
0.583 I SI1 1402.523 1194.743 0 60.9 57 35.2 40.9 0.9-1.7 N 5.41-5.43*3.3 link
0.584 I SI1 1404.933 1196.793 0 60.7 55 34.8 40.9 0.9-1.5 N 5.44-5.45*3.3 link
0.588 I VVS1 1993.233 1697.943 0 59.6 57 34 40.9 0.7-1.4 N 5.47-5.50*3.27 link
0.765 J SI2 2150.873 1898.503 0 62.4 56 34.3 41.1 1.5-1.9 N 5.84-5.87*3.65 link
0.721 J SI1 2175.603 1926.943 0 61.9 56 34 41 1.0-1.4 N 5.76-5.78*3.57 link
0.703 I SI2 2192.123 1945.943 0 60.8 55 34.3 41 1.0-1.4 I 5.80-5.82*3.53 link
0.708 I SI2 2204.163 1959.783 0 61.2 57 34.1 41 1.0-1.4 N 5.75-5.78*3.53 link
0.71 I SI1 2444.693 2236.393 0 62.3 56 34.2 41.1 1.4-1.9 N 5.69-5.71*3.55 link
0.778 I SI1 2630.943 2450.583 0 62.2 57 35.1 40.8 1.2-1.9 N 5.86-5.89*3.65 link
0.94 K SI1 2840.603 2691.693 0 62 55 34.2 41.1 0.9-1.4F N 6.31-6.33*3.92 link

From DirtCheapDiamonds.com...

1887766 0.56 J SI1 GIA $1,008 60.3 57 VG VG Faint 5.32x5.39x3.23
1887726 0.54 I SI1 GIA $1,070 61.7 57 EX VG None 5.24x5.27x3.24
1901197 0.57 J VS2 GIA $1,078 61.9 57 VG VG None 5.32x5.37x3.31
1878875 0.58 J VS2 GIA $1,097 60.9 58 VG VG None 5.37x5.41x3.28
1887783 0.57 I VS2 GIA $1,232 61.1 57 VG EX None 5.34x5.39x3.28
1872065 0.71 I SI1 GIA $1,916 59.8 58 VG VG None 5.77x5.83x3.47
1879085 0.72 I SI1 GIA $1,943 60.6 57 VG EX None 5.76x5.79x3.5
1967634 0.75 I SI1 GIA $1,946 60.5 58 VG VG None 5.91x5.95x3.59
1945619 0.73 K VS2 GIA $1,640 60 57 VG VG None 5.86x5.90x3.53
1818123 0.76 K SI1 GIA $1,533 59.9 60 VG VG None 5.9x5.96x3.55
1906684 0.75 K VS2 GIA $1,620 62.8 57 VG VG None 5.73x5.76x3.61
1873854 0.75 K VS2 GIA $1,688 62.2 58 VG VG None 5.76x5.79x3.59
1202178 0.71 K VS2 $1,364 59.6 59 GD GD Medium 5.82x 5.75x 3.45
1855695 0.75 L SI1 GIA $1,437 62.3 57 EX VG None 5.79x5.84x3.62
1342089 0.70 K SI1 GIA $1,533 62.8 57 VG VG None 5.61x5.66x3.54
1547265 0.70 K VS2 GIA $1,552 58.9 57 GD GD None 5.79x5.86x3.43
1855727 0.79 K SI1 GIA $1,730 62.3 57 GD VG None 5.83x5.88x3.65
1773004 0.70 K VS2 GIA $1,770 58.5 60 GD GD Faint 5.77x5.79x3.38
1532413 0.80 K VS2 GIA $1,837 60.7 60 VG GD None 6.01x6.08x3.67

One interesting point... Most of these 0.65-0.75's will look as big as those 1ct-solitaires you see at the mall... Those are often OVERLY deep and have spreads of 5.9-6.1mm and are dull and lifeless... A well cut 0.70ct will be 5.8-5.9mm as well but MUCH more sparkly!!

 

[aljdewey]

Princess: Hest is totally right....clarity doesn't affect the sparkle, cut does.




I'd highly suggest staying to SI-1 clarity.....when a stone is below 1 ct., most SI-1s should be eyeclean when face-up in normal viewing conditions (mounted), and it will let you get MUCH more stone for the money. All you have to do is ASK the vendor if the stone is eyeclean, and you should have no problem. If you go any higher, you will pay an (unnecessary) premium for VS anything and even more of a premium for VVS anything.....and you'd be paying for something that your eye cannot see at the expense of size, which your eye can definitely see!




Regarding color.....because you want a white metal setting (you mentioned platinum), I'd recommend not going lower than I unless you get a well-cut stone, in which case J should be fine too. I disagree with the K for a white-metal setting.




Side stones do tend to make a center stone look smaller. If you want to maximize the presence/size of your diamond, stick to a setting with a thin band. If you really want sidestones, stick to baguettes on either side....that should give you a little "more" without diminishing the look/size of your stone.




Good luck - I'll see what I can find.

 

[Mara]

Definitely I SI to maximize your carat weight, maybe even a well-cut J...you may not be able to get the absolute best cut without sacrificing size...but by going lower in the color and clarity, you will still get a white stone with an eye-clean look--esp in the smaller sizes.

 

[Giangi]

Aljdewey found some very pretty stones.
I know many of you disagree w/ the K-color but I really feel the can look incredibly beautiful and may go very well with one's skin.
But to stay safe, as Al suggested, J/SI 1 is great. You could dare with an SI 2 maybe, cause at this size inclusions shouldn't be very visible.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/14/2003 4:12:16 PM Giangi wrote:

I know many of you disagree w/ the K-color but I really feel the can look incredibly beautiful and may go very well with one's skin.

----------------

Giangi, it's not so much that I disagree with K color....I agree that in a yellow setting with the right skin tone, it can look really nice if that's the look someone likes.

It's the white metal setting that prompts my vote against the K in this case.

 

[aljdewey]

Oh, and Whiteflash does have a stone listed as an Ideal cut, but you'd have to call and get proportion info (crown/pav angles).




.70, I, SI1, GIA, ideal cut for $2114.

 

[fire&ice]

JMHO, Go w/ a well cut (not super duper louper) J/SI2. In a stone this size, unless you are really color sensitive, the stone will face up white. Also, many SI2's in the smaller size range will be eye clean. This will maximize your carat weight.

Also, if possible look for a stone w/ med/strong blue fluor. This should help the stone face up whiter.

Good luck.

 

[spicolicpa]

Sounds like you have gotten some excellent advice:

One thing to be careful with is choosing a J-K colored stone and setting it in a white metal (especially Platinum) these stones are not colorless.

In your search I would identify what type of look you are into:

I think traditional impression by people not associated with Pricescope (Probably 99% of population) is that a diamond should be clear (White)....
(An I-J colored stone looks much whiter in yellow gold or even white gold as opposed to platinum)

I have also heard that inclusions become more evident the larger the stone. At a .7ct you might be able to get away with SI2 well cut stone and have it face up totally eye clean.

My unbiased but also largely uneducated stance is to shoot for best color on a faceup eyeclean stone (By definition SI1 is eyeclean--though some might disagree). I found great value in G-H with SI1/SI2.

Finally, if you do not want to go with the Super Ideal (Hearts/Arrows) you might think about narrowing your search down to one Cert company (ie only GIA or AGS) to be able to compare apples to apples as much as possible.

OH and when you send out to the big online diamond boys--state clearly that you will not consider any stones without at least a sarin run, get the Pavilion and Crown numbers...be clear on this and you'll save a lot of time...I found this weeds out a lot of bad stones and lame duck sellers w/o any work

 

[Mara]

Check out also the 'Show me the Ring' forum here...you will see I's in platinum and there are some J's too! They look pretty darn good to me, the cut makes a huge difference in color perception!

 

[aljdewey]

Princess: F&I is right.....a well-cut is key, but it doesn't have to be super-duper-louper...and you won't pay the premium associated with that.




So you know......all of the stones I listed above are ideal cut, but they are not super-duper-louper stones. Either the crown/pav angles, put them outside the range of super-ideal.

 

[magna2]

PrincessClyde,

My suggestion is to get something well cut in the 3/4 ct weight, H/I color, and SI clarity. There are many diamonds that will fit your budget in that range.

You mentioned that your setting will have side stones; if I were you I would dispense with the side stones and get a plainer setting and spend the cost difference on a better quality diamond and/or perhaps a larger diamond. Just my opinion.

 

[fire&ice]

I have personally seen a couple of properly graded nicely cut 1 carat J color stones set in platinum. Faces up very white in the white metal.

 

[spicolicpa]

Super douper looper!!! HAHA

I feel the need to amend my above post a bit.

After looking at some pics it is evident that G-H-I can be set in platinum w/o a problem.


The problems I ran into is:
B&M stores (THE ONES I WENT TO--not all) do not carry a wide selection of stones to look at. None I went to carried anything in the .92 ct range, and none showed any stones in platinum with less than a H color.
****My take is that these diamonds CAN be purchased at less than a premium and they do not want to offer them for this reason***

Customer is always right*****
I shop at these stores

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 12:42:10 PM spicolicpa wrote:






****My take is that these diamonds (.92 ct range and/or I/J color) CAN be purchased at less than a premium and they (B&M stores) do not want to offer them for this reason***---------------

It's not so much that the B&M doesn't want to offer them, and more that they are tough to come by in the first place. Cutters will do everything they can to maximize the weight and get to the magic 1 ct. mark, thereby commanding a higher price and reducing waste. In doing so, it bears a decent cut 1 ct. instead of an exceptionally cut .9x ct.

So, they aren't readily available for the even high-end vendors, never mind the B&M vendors. Do a search on PS and tell me how many .9x diamonds you find.......not many, I'm sure. However, there is a proportionately HUGE number of stones at 1.00-1.03 ct. weight.

 

[fire&ice]

Also, many people request the 1c as a mark.

A B&M can not legally represent a .92 stone as a carat. Too much explaining for them & a hassle to carry.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 3:12:09 PM fire&ice wrote:





Also, many people request the 1c as a mark.

A B&M can not legally represent a .92 stone as a carat. Too much explaining for them & a hassle to carry.
----------------

This is an excellent point on this, too. You could tell some buyers until you're blue in the face that the dimensions of a well-cut .93 stone are the same as the dimensions of a less-well cut 1ct, but the uninformed will want the "1 carat", because that's what the masses have been trained to place emphasis on.

 

[spicolicpa]

This is exactly my point....thanks for clarifying that for me.

It seems that you two are very Pro-seller....and look at the buyer as timid, uninformed and deserving of what they get? This is also in relation to our other posts about that woman that is thinking about buying from Atilla the Salesman.

Why so hardcore about this?

If I did not know better I would think you were one of the pushy diamond sellers I ran into at Robbins Brothers Diamonds or Ice.com? (Not niceice.com)
_________________________________________________________________________
A B&M can not legally represent a .92 stone as a carat. Too much explaining for them & a hassle to carry.

Of course they can not call it a 1 ct.

Again with the "too much hassle for these poor sellers who only want to do their job....

If you thinks that the reason, thats your impression, I dont think you know for sure though....

 

[PrincessClyde]

Thanks everybody so much for your advice!!! I've been searching here on Pricescope and on other sites for the last 2 days and I want to know what you all think of two diamonds I've found.
I need to still get the crown and pavillion numbers for both. Is that the same as a sarin run?

Carat - .74
Color - I
Clarity - SI 1
Depth - 60.4
Table - 57
Symmetry - Good
Polish - Very good

for $1698 USAcerteddiamonds on Pricescope

and

Carat - .66
Color - I
Clarity SI 1
Depth - 61.6
Table - 59
Symmetry - Very good
Polish - Very good

for $1328 Abazias on Pricescope


What do you think?

I've found some others that are a little better in color or a little better in clarity, but these seem to be the best two for the amount of money. Thanx!

 

[Giangi]

Looks really nice to me. Try to get details about cut.

 

[Mara]

Yes a Sarin report will give you those crown and pavilion angles, then you can run it through the HCA to see what it says.




There are not that many .9x stones out there at all, I have run searches in the past on Pscope cut quality search to see what I could find for someone who had a tight budget, and the pickins were really slim. Under .90c...yes....but then only a few until over the 1c mark. Obscene amounts of stones for the 1.0-1.10 range!

Well cut.

 

[spicolicpa]

These figures are provided by a Sarin report.


Mara-
Do your homework and keep looking I just bought a .92 superbcert at a wonderfull price, probably 1/4 less than a full ct!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/15/2003 3:33:37 PM spicolicpa wrote:





This is exactly my point....thanks for clarifying that for me.

It seems that you two are very Pro-seller....and look at the buyer as timid, uninformed and deserving of what they get? This is also in relation to our other posts about that woman that is thinking about buying from Atilla the Salesman.

Why so hardcore about this?

If I did not know better I would think you were one of the pushy diamond sellers I ran into at Robbins Brothers Diamonds or Ice.com? (Not niceice.com)

----------------

Spicol, why are you trying to find trouble where there is none? Since you don't seem to grasp the subtle message, let me try with the hammer.

I AM NOT A SELLER.....I am not "pro-seller"......I'm not even in the damn jewelry business! I am a consumer who came here trying to make sense of how to buy a diamond.....someone who realizes her responsibilities as a customer. I realized that I would be unable to tell if I was getting a fair price for a diamond if I didn't learn about them. A 1 ct diamond can vary from $2999 for a piece of mall crap right on up to $10-12K for a top-end diamond. How to figure out where the diamond I select will fall in that range is up to me. If I am able to do that, I'm quite sure every other flunkie is able to do the same IF they give a damn about getting what they pay for.

I don't endorse pushy sales tactics by vendors.....I don't endorse misrepresenting one's merchandise.....I don't endorse gouging the unsuspecting. But NEITHER do I endorse the notion that it's the seller's responsibility to make sure the buyer isn't an idiot!

I don't think every customer is uninformed, timid, or deserving of getting screwed. I DO think that a customer who agrees to buy a damn ring without knowing the price is uninformed. I would DEMAND more information as a customer BEFORE purchase, and YES, those who don't have no one to blame but themselves.

For the zillionth time, I'm not on either friggin side. I am on BOTH and NEITHER. Both a seller and a customer have a responsibility toward a successful transaction.

If you doubt the veracity of what I'm saying, try taking a look at the "feedback" thread in the steam room. My comments are most assuredly NOT pro-vendor.

If you can't ingest this, so be it. I'm done trying to explain to you what I consider to be patently obvious. It is clear to me that you're going to "interpret" things how you WISH for them to be and not how they are....which is also your prerogative.

 

[aljdewey]

Princess: Sounds like you're well on the way!

Hard to comment on these diamonds until you get the crown/pav angles, and yes, a sarin will provide that info.

 

[astogie]

Think about going with an on-line shop that has a trade up policy...takes a lot of the long term worry away.

I made my final purchase via whiteflash due to thier most liberal trade up policy...

I think you are doing great!

 

[aljdewey]

Spicol, there are exactly four .9x stones available at this moment through SuperbCert. Hardly what I'd consider an abundance. 3 of the 4 are VVS stones, which commands a premium. The last is an SI2 stone, which is below what many SI seekers want AND it's an F color, which again commands a premium.

There is precisely ONE ideal cut diamond at Whiteflash, .96 G, SI one but table depth of 62.4 puts it out of HCA range. Oh, and none in the superideal range.

There are only three diamonds in the .9x range on GOG's "for sale"....two of them are H, VS2 (the VS2 charges a PREMIUM); the third is an E stone, ALSO a premium.

Since you purport that there so abundant, perhaps you can tell us how many stones can you find *right now* that meet these criteria:




G-I color, SI-1 clarity, .90-.96 carat, 2.5 or less on HCA

 

[spicolicpa]

Aljdewey:

I am glad thats cleared up.

I just get very sick of people saying "Buyer Beware" as if this takes all responsibility off the seller.


"Since you purport that they are so abundant, perhaps you can tell us how many stones can you find *right now* that meet these criteria:"

Is this directed at me??? "Right Now!!"...??...check that at the door please....Did I ruffle some feathers? :O)

I never said there was an abundance....do your homework they are out there and the end result is a fantastic deal. AND if its cut really good it will face up like a 1+ ct. stone.

As far as right now, she needs to identify her time window and employ a great manyhours of search to find the right stone its not a NOW issue I hope.

She is not looking at a .92 ct she is looking nearer to a .7 ct. For her info she should look into the price cut off points. I believe a .65 will sell sig. less than a .7? What are those cut off points?

PS Lets bring this back into our other post. My bad for bringing here.