I hope I don't sound ungrateful, but...

[cookies]

I have to say, a $25K budget is a very large one!
Are you dead-set on a colorless diamond? I am asking because with a $25K budget, you could get a gorgeous (and large) colored gemstone.
If you like fancy yellow or green diamonds, I think you will like Chrysoberyl too..

 

[Gypsy]

As an aside: obviously this is a diamond forum. DIAMOND. Of course it's going to be full of first world problems. Who cares what the budget is, or how big of a stone someone else wants/purchases? If it can be afforded and brings joy, it's no skin off the noses of the peanut gallery. There have been a few critical posts lately - about people choosing to spend a healthy amount of money on a large stone - and it screams sour grapes. It's not nice to criticize diamonds for being 'too small,' nor is it nice to do the opposite. People vary.

I'm so glad you said this, Justginger. I've noticed the same thing, critical posts about budgets and how much people spend, but I couldn't find a way to address it in the right manner. I'm so glad you did, so I can just say: Ditto!

I agree with this 100%. This is a diamond forum. People vary, their budgets vary. If you don't have something constructive to say, just keep it to yourself.

 

[Gypsy]

So, my observations.



This is going to sound more like relationship advice, but it doesn't sound like he is motivated to get engaged or married. This forum is filled with men angsting over their choice of ring for their GFs. Yours is a guy who isn't even looking, doesn't have a budget, and apparently has no money saved. You're driving this process, and dragging him along through it. It may be time to have a frank talk about whether the two of you are really in the same place.

Very good advice milton. I agree.

And I also agree with VR's whole post:

$25,000 is a very large budget, and if you aren't happy with that there is a problem. And no offense but if I was the guy in this situation and this wasn't enough for you I would be running for the hills.

FG - I'm glad you've softened your approach. Personally I thing the OP would be equally justified running for the hills since "the guy" apparently makes promises he can't keep, doesn't do any advance research before committing to a large purchase, has trouble accepting things that don't go his way (like the fact that you can't finance diamonds) and is apparently clueless about his own finances.

That said, chloecro, I do think you and your boyfriend need to do some straight talking about finances, your financial future, and expectations before you progress to the ring. I happen to agree with Haven that a diamond doesn't have to be large to be beautiful, but... if the budget you come up with doesn't meet your expectations, you can contribute from your own funds and/or come up with a plan to upgrade in the future.

 

[kenny]

If you like fancy yellow or green diamonds, I think you will like Chrysoberyl too..

If you like green diamonds here is a very nice one that GIA has graded to be natural in both material and origin of color.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5720.htm

Unfortunately if you want a GIA fully natural green diamond you have to give up the size thing, since $32,100 only buys you 0.32 carat at this intensity of pure green.
I have round one of the same hue intensity but smaller and there is something very very special about green diamonds, and anybody who knows anything about them does NOT expect to see a large natural green diamond worn by a working person.

Here is Pricescope's tutorial on colored diamonds.
I like to spread the word about them.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/fancy-color-diamonds

 

[Laila619]

As an aside: obviously this is a diamond forum. DIAMOND. Of course it's going to be full of first world problems. Who cares what the budget is, or how big of a stone someone else wants/purchases? If it can be afforded and brings joy, it's no skin off the noses of the peanut gallery. There have been a few critical posts lately - about people choosing to spend a healthy amount of money on a large stone - and it screams sour grapes. It's not nice to criticize diamonds for being 'too small,' nor is it nice to do the opposite. People vary.

I think the key words are 'if it can be afforded.' Sometimes the girl is picturing one thing, but the guy has a different budget in mind. Neither is wrong, but if he can't afford it, then I feel like the lady should be happy with whatever the budget is. It's just not smart to finance a luxury purchase, and it has nothing to do with sour grapes. Almost all PSers will advise to not go into debt for a piece of jewelry. Now, if it can be afforded and both are fine with the price, then have at it.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's my advice (now that I've gone around and dittoed everyone else). It's along the lines of Dreamer's suggestion. First, you guys need to talk about finances and about expectations, in general, but also about debt and credit cards and affording the lifestyle you both want. Second, take the ring out of the engagement. Tell him that when he is ready to propose, he should. With no ring, or with an affordable band or something small like a pendant. Then after he has proposed, and you are engaged you can both shop together and learn from each other, and make this a partnership process. I also think you should consider an oval or pear instead of a round because you will be able to get a much larger diamond in those shapes than you would a round. That said, if you are willing to buy a smaller diamond and then upgrade, a round is the best choice for that.

 

[farmer gal]

Have you ever thought of an antique cut?

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/9503/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry, I forgot that someone did try to reach the seller of the diamond on pre-loved. His listing is still active so there is no harm in trying, but you'd have to have the cash to buy it if he did. Do you know if he has the $25k cash or is he planning on financing that?

 

[junebug17]

Sorry, I forgot that someone did try to reach the seller of the diamond on pre-loved. His listing is still active so there is no harm in trying, but you'd have to have the cash to buy it if he did. Do you know if he has the $25k cash or is he planning on financing that?

Ah, I didn't know that. I agree it can't hurt to try.

 

[Dancing Fire]

if i had a $25k Ering budget i'd find me a trophy wife...

 

[decodelighted]

How much do you KNOW about his finances? Because my first instinct is to FLASH FORWARD and think ... can this guy afford marriage? kids? other things you expect? Can you? Sometimes a large gap between expectation and reality re: ring shopping/debt/timing can foreshadow other issues. Like I noticed he was fine waiting another year to get engaged just to get a better "deal" on the ring? Do you think maybe he's not really as into this as you are?

If none of these things are concerns to you - fine. Do you want to have kids? Because at 38 -- IN NO WAY would I wait a year for a better ring at a better price if I wanted kids. Fertility treatments are gonna cost way more than THE TAX.

 

[hmr_mama]

$23,650:

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/251ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/23477402_vpXkGj#!i=1897369907&k=8J3WtHh

 

[decodelighted]

Puzzle me this .... when his "budget" was 65K - your dream ring was a 2.5 ct RB. Now that the budget is 25K (maybe!) your dream ring is a 2.75 RB???? DOES NOT COMPUTE.

DREAM. SMALLER.

 

[mandasand]

She was looking at signed pieces before with the $65k budget. She has come back slightly into reality by giving up a Tiffany's or Harry Winston or Cartier. But, size is still in the want category.

This has been discussed recently in another thread. If he doesn't either have $25k in cash or can finance $25k and PAY IT OFF in 6 months, then this new budget may not even be realistic. I think the consensus on the forum is to purchase luxury items with cash or have the means to quickly pay off financing. No sense in going into debt before you even get your married life started!

Do you actually know how much he has or did he tell you $25k because he thinks that sounds good? I just want to make sure we can realistically help you with firm budget!

 

[Gypsy]

$23,650:

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/251ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/23477402_vpXkGj#!i=1897369907&k=8J3WtHh

OMG. No QUESTION, this would be on my radar !!!! OH BABY! GIA J. I'd just worry about darkeness under the table. But I'd get it in person and check it out myself.

 

[UberClaire]

I have to say, a $25K budget is a very large one!
Are you dead-set on a colorless diamond? I am asking because with a $25K budget, you could get a gorgeous (and large) colored gemstone.
If you like fancy yellow or green diamonds, I think you will like Chrysoberyl too..

Or brown -- http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/9250/
I love that one.

2.94 carat August Vintage Cushion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxeqr_R_Xl8&feature=youtu.be

Plenty of big cushions and old european cuts at the Good Old Gold website in your price range.

 

[webdiva]

How much do you KNOW about his finances? Because my first instinct is to FLASH FORWARD and think ... can this guy afford marriage? kids? other things you expect? Can you? Sometimes a large gap between expectation and reality re: ring shopping/debt/timing can foreshadow other issues. Like I noticed he was fine waiting another year to get engaged just to get a better "deal" on the ring? Do you think maybe he's not really as into this as you are?

If none of these things are concerns to you - fine. Do you want to have kids? Because at 38 -- IN NO WAY would I wait a year for a better ring at a better price if I wanted kids. Fertility treatments are gonna cost way more than THE TAX.

I agree with what Christina wrote and also Deco. I'd be more concerned that he's being honest about finances at all - or realistic about life. Is he ready to have kids? ( if that's why you want to get married asap?) There are a whole boatload of expenses after the ring. wedding, honeymoon, a house, baby expenses, time you have to take off work to have a baby, etc. Don't lose sight of the important part of a marriage - everything AFTER the wedding.

If it's just a matter of him not understanding finances but not having crazy debt, maybe you can come to an agreement whereby you manage the family finances and establish the ring budget? That's what I had to do with hubby.

If you do sit down and disclose each other's true finances, I like Gypsy and Dreamer's ideas to separate the ring and the engagement. I don't think we can judge that he's not ready to get married. He may be ready to be engaged but scared by the expectations of "THE RING". You did mention that you can't find a size that you want for $25k - and that part IS ungrateful and scary to men. Men don't want to feel like something "is not good enough".

Finally, comments about ring budget are highly inappropriate on this forum. I understand it may seem warranted here because of the budget uncertainty but it's also been mentioned in other threads.

 

[sunseeker101]

For my money, this guy is enjoying a power trip by frustrating your expectations (for communication and empathy much more than a ring). If you're being left with a vague sensation of anxiety, guilt and frustration over a symbolic purchase I would think about what his motivations really are. If he's remotely disordered he will see your older age and your anxiety to move things forward as a source of control. At best he could be unusually thoughtless and co- incidentally calculating -- but remember you don't deserve that either! Anyway this is my 0.02 and likely worth what you paid for it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="webdiva|
If you do sit down and disclose each other's true finances, I like Gypsy and Dreamer's ideas to separate the ring and the engagement. I don't think we can judge that he's not ready to get married. He may be ready to be engaged but scared by the expectations of "THE RING". You did mention that you can't find a size that you want for $25k - and that part IS ungrateful and scary to men. Men don't want to feel like something "is not good enough".

[/quote]


...are you still talking about diamonds?

 

[ariel144]

Buying a diamond can be overwhelming and one needs to do a lot of research to find the best stone in your price range. It sounds like to me that your future fiance is just overwhelmed and not really interested in researching...so I suggest that after having a frank discussion on finances YOU do the research and find the best stone in your price range.

Not everyone enjoys shopping for diamonds...most men would just rather walk into a store and get the ring that looks the best to them and have it sized...and VOILA! Your are engaged! My husband hates to shop and I surely would not trust him to find the best diamond...NOT! it can be a full time job educating oneself and searching for great performing diamond on the web. I'm sure your BF loves you ...he just doesn't feel qualified to find the right diamond. Most people do not obsess over diamonds like PS'rs in here...LOL!

I suggest you take the bull by the horns. $25k is a great budget. Come back in here after you and your BF have your frank discussion and determine your true budget and there are many willing helpers to find you the best stone for your buck.

(I remember another poster in here who let her BF find her diamond and he supposedly got a "great deal" from a friend or friend's relative...and it was a sorry stone which she ended up having to go through a big to do about exchanging...and lost money over the exchange...you don't want that to happen to you. What a hassle.)

 

[NKOTB]

I agree with this last post. I love gems. I wish my hubby was as enthusiastic as I was to look at them, talk about them, figure out which ones I should buy, etc. The truth is, though, that although he wants me to happy, and I'll occasionally catch him in an "open" mood, he really does NOT care about gems! We can place a lot of importance on "The Ring" in our culture, and there can a lot of expectations placed on the proposer. And yes, I'm sure there have been many guys come on this forum and make heroic efforts in terms of research, shopping, etc., sometimes all on their own. There is a whole world of guys outside of PS, however, who have probably not come anywhere close.

Now, we can make a lot of assumptions about your relationship based on your original post, but I'm not sure how helpful that is. Only you really know if this kind of thing is specific to this situation, or a broader issue between you two. It is good to work at communication and finances as early as possible, obviously. I can understand your frustration at his mixed messages. You mentioned that you keep saying "Are you sure" and "it's okay to wait", but really...You're not okay with waiting, so you're also giving him mixed messages. You want him to take control, but he's not doing that the way you want, so you're kind of trying to take control, but making him think that he's still in control. Make sense? Hopefully, you've been communicating your true feelings along the way - guys aren't mind readers, after all.

Did you see the stone you first mentioned, and if so, how did that go?

 

[Mayk]

My suggestion.. shut this thread down... start a new one.. give the good folks here an idea of your real budget and what your priorities are and let them see what they can do.... really if you make some concessions.... they can find you a fabulous diamond for the sizeable budget your are talking about....

 

[rubybeth]

I don't think you sound ungrateful, exactly, just frustrated with the lack of movement when you thought things were progressing. I like the idea of separating the engagement from 'the ring' so you can get engaged whenever. My husband and I were basically engaged YEARS before we got officially engaged; we knew after a few weeks of dating that we would most likely get married since we'd already known each other for many years and had been friends. Ultimately, getting a ring and announcing officially our intentions to get married were formailities, because we'd already planned out what kind of wedding we wanted AND I had my dress before he bought the ring.

I don't know your financial situation, but $25k on a ring is a LOT of money to me, and seems like a very nice budget for an awesome ring. I do think you need to find out if this is $25k in cash or $25k split between 3 credit cards and paid off over the next 10 years. I would not have been comfortable financing a ring, and neither was my husband. Even sellers like Jewels by Erica Grace have upgrade policies for a reason. You can tell your boyfriend, "I know you want to get me the nicest, best ring possible, but we need to be realistic if we're going to be getting married and merging finances. I am willing to contribute to the cost of the ring, but we have to be on the same page about the total amount we can spend on this, because a wedding, honeymoon, possibly kids don't come cheap." You may be able to afford everything you want right now, but that is not how my husband and I started off. Disagreements about money are the #1 source of stress and unhappiness in marriage, and can lead to divorce, so it is very important that you are on the same page about this before tying the knot or even making a large purchase together.

 

[motownmama]

I'm curious if you got to see the stone that HE had picked out as a possibility and doable for his budget.

 

[imitcan]

You don't sound ungrateful. You sound like someone who wants to get engaged and wants to enjoy wearing an engagement ring. I'm not a frequent poster but I had to write today because I am currently living through a very similar situation with a friend of mine. She is 41 years old and never been married and really wants to marry her current boyfriend of 4 years. He is 35 years old. Her frustration has been going on since Christmas last year. He apparently hinted that a "sparkly" would be under the tree for her. Back in the fall, I alerted him to this site and encouraged him to learn as much as possible about diamonds so he would get a beautiful stone for a good price. Not sure if he did any homework, but the ring did not materialize and my friend was crushed. So the hinting began in earnest and I too mentioned once more that he should read the information here at the very least. I even offered to go shopping with him to get an idea of what is out there.
He continues to give reasons for the delay: too expensive, not enough to choose from, we live in a small community and should spend a weekend in the city to look at bigger stores....but the weekend never happens.
The situation with my friend is less about changing the budget as it is just dragging the feet but I sense a similar undercurrent. And that is one of not being very serious, honest or respectful of the situation and especially of the other person. I really hope I am wrong but I think that the fact that these couples are not in high school should warrant more mature behaviour. In the case of my friend, I think she does not see how unfair the situation is because she so wants to get married and quite frankly, is afraid that this may be her last chance. Things for her are even more complicated as her 23 year old niece is currently planning her wedding for summer 2013 and she is wearing a beautiful, very sparkly (albeit modest) engagement ring that her 23 year old fiance took a second part-time job in order to save up for.
Sit him down and talk. My gut tells me this is about more than just the shrinking budget.

 

[yssie]

I really do think you're spot-on imit - something tells me that if OP's SO said "I have 10k, let's go shopping right now!" she'd be a happy woman. The ring - the size, the budget the specs - it all seems so secondary to the fact that He's Just Not That Into It, just easy things to focus all that worry and attention on.

If I'm wrong and the ring really is the entirety of the issue - well, that's a whole different novel.

 

[chloecro]

Thanks MotownMama,

Yes, I saw the stone last night. It looks very nice, but it's priced at $28K. I'm not even sure why he brought me there. Again, he said if I loved it he could make it happen.

He's confusing me, because his max is 25K and then he takes me to see a 28K ring.
I attempted to talk about it and finances at dinner, but it didn't really go over very well. He was really defensive the whole time.

Now I just feel sad and drained. The ring doesn't even matter to me at this point.

I really am at a standstill.

 

[webdiva]

This seems like a bigger issue. Maybe let him calm down and try talking again. If it still doesn't work, maybe you need someone to help you, like a counselor.

 

[derbygal]

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. If this were me, I would take the bull by the horns and find a modestly priced ring that you could upgrade in the future when you are 100 percent sure of your combined finances (I'm talking years down the line here). If you find a really nice $10,000 ring and he still balks, then I would throw in the towel and not mention marriage or engagement again. Good luck to you.

 

[february2003bride]

Thanks MotownMama,

Yes, I saw the stone last night. It looks very nice, but it's priced at $28K. I'm not even sure why he brought me there. Again, he said if I loved it he could make it happen.

He's confusing me, because his max is 25K and then he takes me to see a 28K ring.
I attempted to talk about it and finances at dinner, but it didn't really go over very well. He was really defensive the whole time.

Now I just feel sad and drained. The ring doesn't even matter to me at this point.

I really am at a standstill.

What's in bold is a HUGE. RED. FLAG. There is another board I read that is wedding/diamond related (I don't think I'm allowed to link it here) and a woman posted that whenever she tried to have the money talk with her BF, he shut down. When she finally began digging on her own, she discovered that he was eyeball deep in debt. And threads like that are posted a few times a year. Same story, different names. I'm not saying that your BF is hiding huge debt, but getting defensive is a red flag that you need to look into.

That being said, if he gave you a budget of $25K, stick to it or come in way lower. I know a 2.5+ carat is your dream ring, but if the funds aren't there, they aren't there. Lower your expectations, don't compare your engagement ring to celebrity e-rings as those are not the norm. Or buy from WF or BGD who have a trade in policy and upgrade over the years.