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I hope I don't sound ungrateful, but...

Not sure bout the deeper issues that may exist in the relationship but as far as the diamond goes, if a large 2+ diamond is what your heart desires and you have a 25k budget, it is doable. Go down in color to an I or lower clarity. Recently, there have been several people on here with lower budgets than you have who made some sacrifices in color and clarity in order to get a larger diamond in the 2 carat range.

Good luck to you.
 
I fee/see that guys get defensive about these kind of things easily when a somewhat related subject is already linked to it (credit card debt, buying a house, financing a fancy car, getting a ring...). Certain guys have big egos when it comes to their money, career, family... etc. So it's not uncommon to find yourself at a position like this.

When I first got together with my fiance (then bf), I was very *eager* to have the finance talk because I'm very careful with my finances. My approach/attitude was definitely not right from the start. I agree I can be a pretty judgmental person sometimes so I think he was afraid to feel *judged* by me. I got on his defensive (and even offensive) side so it was many fights later that he was willing to open up and talk about things. It wasn't really he had anything to hide (some student loan debt and meager savings) but in my opinion he could've managed his finances better. Now I know almost everything that I should know. I let him do his thing but I give him advices here and there. Looking back I realized I just did not approach the subject in the best manner possible.

So don't be discouraged. Guys are usually... slower in developement in certain areas. I would be patient and try to approach the subject from a different angle.

Best of luck.
 
I think if I were in this situation, I'd show him a 2 ct. ideal cut diamond that is under budget, like this one for under $20k. See if he goes for it or if he finds some excuse not to buy it. Two carats is a very nice size and larger than what 95%+ of people have, so maybe you could start off with that and upgrade later if finances allow.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2683860.htm ($19,949 with pricescope/wire discount, will cost a little more if he puts it on a cc)
 
Feb03Bride|1340918083|3225424 said:
chloecro|1340916139|3225385 said:
Thanks MotownMama,

Yes, I saw the stone last night. It looks very nice, but it's priced at $28K. I'm not even sure why he brought me there. Again, he said if I loved it he could make it happen.

He's confusing me, because his max is 25K and then he takes me to see a 28K ring.
I attempted to talk about it and finances at dinner, but it didn't really go over very well. He was really defensive the whole time.

Now I just feel sad and drained. The ring doesn't even matter to me at this point.

I really am at a standstill.
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What's in bold is a HUGE. RED. FLAG. There is another board I read that is wedding/diamond related (I don't think I'm allowed to link it here) and a woman posted that whenever she tried to have the money talk with her BF, he shut down. When she finally began digging on her own, she discovered that he was eyeball deep in debt. And threads like that are posted a few times a year. Same story, different names. I'm not saying that your BF is hiding huge debt, but getting defensive is a red flag that you need to look into.

That being said, if he gave you a budget of $25K, stick to it or come in way lower. I know a 2.5+ carat is your dream ring, but if the funds aren't there, they aren't there. Lower your expectations, don't compare your engagement ring to celebrity e-rings as those are not the norm. Or buy from WF or BGD who have a trade in policy and upgrade over the years.
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I'm sorry to say this sweetie. But I'm not one who believes in coddling on issues like this. I wouldn't even CONSIDER an engagement to this man. And I would tell him so, point blank. No engagement, no continuance of the relationship until we are completely open and honest 100% and share our finances with each other.

He was 'defensive'.... please. He needs to put on his big boy pants. Marriage is about partnership, sharing, support, trust, and compromise. I don't care what his issue is, it's indefensible to me that he's not willing to just open up. And it scares the pants (big girl or otherwise) off me that he's being this way. There is a reason why money is the primary reason for all divorces. It's a big huge issue. And too many people ignore it until there's a ring on their finger and a kid on the way. Do NOT be one of these people.
 
I just want to be clear before I post this response, that I am in no way being judgmental, however, I noticed a post in one of your previous threads about paying for the ering, that perhaps you had owned much larger diamond erings in the past? If this is the case, then it may explain some of the seemingly odd behaviors of your bf. I think that it's natural for a man to want to show that he will be a good provider, he may be feeling that if he can't purchase you a rock as big as or bigger than a previous man did, that he will be judged as inadequate. If he truly can't afford to make a purchase this large, then I can see where his pride may be taking a hit. I think that the desire is there, but the finances are not. And since you already mentioned that you are the bread winner in the relationship, then I'll take a gamble that he feels a bit insecure about that as well. It may not be PC but I think most men are programmed to feel that they need to be the protectors and the providers, by asking him to firmly establish a budget, he's essentially being asked to admit that he can't afford to give you either what you want or what you may have had previously. Of course this is all subjective as I have no idea if the old post was accurate or not. But if it is, then I think that you will have to find a way to resolve this gently and without damaging his pride or ego.

I think that DS made an excellent suggestion of trying to find something under budget and seeing how he responds. I also think that her choice is excellent. :))

edit: I wanted to say too, that I agree with Gypsy, that the finances, yours and his, need to be an open book before the engagement takes place!
 
Me again.......... And, I only know what you've told us,........ BUT.... when he showed you the ring last night that HE ostensibly chose for you to see, could you have not said "Honey I love it! Where's the box? Let's go!" Maybe he worked a deal where he was getting for $25k vs. the $28k price tag. Maybe he just wants to be the hero who picked it out?????? :naughty:
 
Or go out and find yourself a nice old cut in a really low color and have a cool unique looking honker, in yellow or rose gold. Yum. You can totally get 2+ carats for under $25k. Maybe even 3cts!
 
Ungrateful? Not particularly. You do seem more focused on getting into a big rock than making sure you're marrying someone financially responsible and stable, though. I don't mean that from a place of judgement, I just hope you don't lose focus of the bigger picture.

ETA: I think it's a bit unfair to conflate interest in diamonds with investment in moving forward, btw. It can be a very overwhelming process. Last year I embarked on an attempt to buy my then-boyfriend, now-husband a new watch. I started some research, joined a message board, learned a lot... and realized that I couldn't afford something markedly better than the watches he already owned. Frustrated and disappointed, I bagged the project. Adding insult to injury, DH's parents just bought him one of the watches I had admired that had been out of my reach.

But, you know, in the thick of my search, if he'd asked for, say, a Rolex, I probably would have been excited about the clue and started looking into them, knowing full well that the timeline for that purchase would be several more years of budgeting away.
 
Christina...|1340933904|3225643 said:
edit: I wanted to say too, that I agree with Gypsy, that the finances, yours and his, need to be an open book before the engagement takes place!
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yup,ask BF to show you the :$$): before you say "YES".. :wink2:
 
I personally would hold off on the engagement because there seems to be a lack of communication between you. In life there will always be hard decisions and challenges that you will need to face head on together. If he is making you jump through hoops to get a ring, I can`t imagine what else he will do in order to `save face` or just to play at looking like a big shot.....or even to pacify you to your face but do otherwise behind your back?

He seems narsisistic to me. When there is a huge divide between what a person says and reality, there is normally a bit of narsisistic behaviour going on. Especially re. the changing budget and stories to make you feel like you are going mad. To me he is flood lighting you.

For instance, a normal guy who cant afford xyz, will say so, and he wont string you along because that wouldn`t work out anyway. A normal guy with his feet on the ground will tell you what the budget is, and he would expect you to deal with it. A normal guy would not be playing these `games`.

My advice is to drop the search, it`s not your place to roll the ball up hill. I would assume he actually doesn`t have any budget going by the way he is acting. Look at the actions, not the words. Plus, don`t get sucked into the glamour of the ring, look at who you are tying yourself up with legally for a long time.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am familiar with the type that swap and change their stories, they are very convincing at making up stuff on the spot, they can usually keep up their act for 2 years. Double check how many friends he has and if he is close with his family. Also a good indication of character.

Good luck, hope Im wrong.
 
Christina...|1340933904|3225643 said:
I just want to be clear before I post this response, that I am in no way being judgmental, however, I noticed a post in one of your previous threads about paying for the ering, that perhaps you had owned much larger diamond erings in the past? If this is the case, then it may explain some of the seemingly odd behaviors of your bf. I think that it's natural for a man to want to show that he will be a good provider, he may be feeling that if he can't purchase you a rock as big as or bigger than a previous man did, that he will be judged as inadequate. If he truly can't afford to make a purchase this large, then I can see where his pride may be taking a hit. I think that the desire is there, but the finances are not. And since you already mentioned that you are the bread winner in the relationship, then I'll take a gamble that he feels a bit insecure about that as well. It may not be PC but I think most men are programmed to feel that they need to be the protectors and the providers, by asking him to firmly establish a budget, he's essentially being asked to admit that he can't afford to give you either what you want or what you may have had previously. Of course this is all subjective as I have no idea if the old post was accurate or not. But if it is, then I think that you will have to find a way to resolve this gently and without damaging his pride or ego.

I think that DS made an excellent suggestion of trying to find something under budget and seeing how he responds. I also think that her choice is excellent. :))

edit: I wanted to say too, that I agree with Gypsy, that the finances, yours and his, need to be an open book before the engagement takes place!
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well said Christina, from a fellow bloke i believe you're pretty much on the money there... We are pre-programmed to be able to protect and provide for women who are pre-programmed to seek out a good provider for your (and their) children. Not sexist, just the way men and women are different.

here's a simple thing to try. Tell him honestly that ANY ring is fine and it's really just a symbol of his love for you.... and mean it.

if you're struggling to do it or make up a reason to justify not saying that, then the issue is you.

if he doesn't pony up at that point, the issue is him.
 
did u put the Brian Gavin stone Coda rec'd on hold? I see someone did. I hope things are working out for you.
 
how is the number of friends someone has a judge of character?

i have 1000 friends on facebook, I must have great character!

most of the other advice I agree with here. the allure of a new rock will wear off quickly and if this guy doesn't turn out to be the guy you thought he was, then you are going to be stuck in a dead end relationship and that rock on your finger will mean nothing to you. best to put things on hold until you get the underlying issues worked out first.
 
Wow...so far on this thread, some have diagnosed the BF as being narcissistic? Lier?
Could it be that he is just insecure and feels like he doesn't measure up? Or maybe a little immature? Or isn't comfortable communicating his insecurities? If we all ran at the first sniff of an insecurity in a male (especially right before a major life decision), I doubt many of us would be married. I would put off the diamond talk and see if ya'll can figure out a way to communicate a little more comfortably. If he isn't willing, it is going to be good info to know before you make a major commitment to him. (if you decide to...).

It isn't about ungrateful. You got your hopes up and it didn't happen.

edit: I will say that my DH is a pretty self secure guy, we've been married for 8 years (not THAT long). But, if he ever thought that he wasn't providing for his family well enough, it would get to him and he would take it pretty harshly. In the beginning of the marriage, that would take the form of defensiveness or irritation misdirected. Your BF and you don't have a family yet...but maybe he sees the diamond thing as not being able to "provide" you with what you want at such a symbolic time.
 
I really think the way your BF is reacting is kind of common. Guys get a little freaked out. It's natural. You're going to get a lot of comments about him as an ideal partner and finances and stuff. But, you know him better than we do, obviously. If he was a loser, I doubt you'd be shopping for rings with him. So, I just say back off and relax. Stop shopping with him. Tell him that you are OK with any budget he has set and you trust him to to purchase the right thing. No more shopping with him. No more input. No more controlling.

I was kind of crazy with the whole engagement ring picking process and my BF told me it made him feel like I wanted to control everything. So, if I expect him to be chivalrous, a gentleman, and be a good provider, I need to back the heck off. It's hard because I am a strong, independent woman. And our relationship is a partnership. But, I do not discount our natural roles.

So, if you give up the wheel and let him do the steering, you will find out soon enough if he is ready for marriage or if he isn't.
 
I don't think you sound ungrateful, more confused and frustrated. I agree that it's important to have a frank discussion with your BF about finances in general--who's going to be responsible for paying bills? What will you do with extra cash? What are your long term financial goals? Exactly what are your expenses each month? ect. It's hard to have those conversations without them becoming heated. I've found that for me and my hubby, scheduling a time to sit down without distractions, when we are not in the heat of the moment, to discuss hot button topics can help to keep things more neutral.

Also, perhaps you can think carefully about what aspects of the engagement ring are the most important. Is having a signed piece the most important thing? Then maybe you need to think smaller/less quality. If you don't mind having a signed ring, then you may have more budget for a better color/clarity or a larger rock. You could also look at estate pieces which can be less expensive. Maybe you could start small and do an upgrade later, or get a great stone in a very simple solitaire for now and put your money towards a new semi mount for an anniversary or something.

We were pretty broke when my hubby asked me to marry him. He spent about a month's salary, which at the time felt like a ton even though it is a tiny budget compared to yours. He asked me what kind of diamonds I liked, and I showed him several then let him find something similar in his budget. It turned out to be a "previously loved" pear solitaire that (by a lot of standards on PS) is maybe not as incredible, but it's very pretty and I love it because of the love, sacrifice and hard work it represented! Since then, he's added side stones with a ring guard and has just given me the go ahead to do a custom semi mount.

The important thing is that you love your BF and that he loves you and is as committed to your marriage and future together. If he is not willing to communicate about something as fleeting as a budget for a purchase (albeit an engagement ring), then I would be concerned.
 
Here's my theory.

It sounds as though the issue has to do with the OP's BF's savings, or lack thereof. Specifically, his comments about the other jewelers not willing to extend him credit for the purchase for more than 6 months leads to me to believe that he has very little, if anything, actually set aside in cash for the ring. This leads me to believe that even the lower $25k budget may be based off his assumption that he'll be able to work with some jewelers who are are willing to extend him more favorable credit terms - maybe the stone OP recently saw (the one priced at $28k) was through a jeweler that would be willing to allow him to purchase the stone on some type of payment plan. This might explain his reluctance to work with certain PS vendors, i.e. GOG, BGD, etc.

It doesn't sound as though his "commitment" or level of preparedness is necessarily the issue. Rather, I think it's a matter of finances (and, naivety). I think he is being defensive about discussing finances openly because he doesn't want to tell the OP that he doesn't actually have anything set aside, or that he plans to finance the entire purchase.

Again, this is just my theory, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
kyoung05|1340998214|3226099 said:
Here's my theory.

It sounds as though the issue has to do with the OP's BF's savings, or lack thereof. Specifically, his comments about the other jewelers not willing to extend him credit for the purchase for more than 6 months leads to me to believe that he has very little, if anything, actually set aside in cash for the ring. This leads me to believe that even the lower $25k budget may be based off his assumption that he'll be able to work with some jewelers who are are willing to extend him more favorable credit terms - maybe the stone OP recently saw (the one priced at $28k) was through a jeweler that would be willing to allow him to purchase the stone on some type of payment plan. This might explain his reluctance to work with certain PS vendors, i.e. GOG, BGD, etc.

It doesn't sound as though his "commitment" or level of preparedness is necessarily the issue. Rather, I think it's a matter of finances (and, naivety). I think he is being defensive about discussing finances openly because he doesn't want to tell the OP that he doesn't actually have anything set aside, or that he plans to finance the entire purchase.

Again, this is just my theory, so take it with a grain of salt.
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+1

this is one *possible* reason why i posted my advice.

the bottom line is the two of you are letting $$$ get in the way. remove the money from the equation. for both of you. then make the decision.

if you can't remove the money from the equation (which may well be fair enough for many reasons) then fair enough, you'll need to sort that out because it's REALLY clouding things for you two.

if you don't open up lines of communication now, you'll be arguing/worrying/wondering about things for years that have nothing to do with the real issue between the two of you... *edit* I just wanted to add it's his responsibility as much as yours... just in case you got the wrong idea that i'm putting it on you.

if you love him, money is only a means to an ends, and truthfully diamonds are a symbol of his commitment, and even more truthfully (dare i say it) one invented to sell stones to people.

that's how most blokes see it.
 
GMUAlum08|1340977693|3225867 said:
how is the number of friends someone has a judge of character?

i have 1000 friends on facebook, I must have great character!

most of the other advice I agree with here. the allure of a new rock will wear off quickly and if this guy doesn't turn out to be the guy you thought he was, then you are going to be stuck in a dead end relationship and that rock on your finger will mean nothing to you. best to put things on hold until you get the underlying issues worked out first.
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LOL, amount of friends in real life, not fb!!!!

I find that I can descipher something about an adult who has many long lasting friendships in their life compared to an adult who seems to have `no` friends. Please dont take this literally, as the general point is to look at how the person lives and how they relate and interact with others in their life. Eg someone who has fallen out or can`t be bothered with all of his family, has no real friends and who is quick to have conflicts with co workers etc is information that should not be ignored. I am particularly refering to the quality of their relationships and not the quantity.

For me these things are vital pieces of the puzzle. A `loner` and/ or someone who`s friends were all of the `just met` type, or a constant turnover etc indicates that once people got to know them they backed off. (Or perhaps that the person has led a different type of life, perhaps involving drugs or crime etc?). Anyway, this has been my experience in life, in general.
 
Good luck OP, you poor thing, I hope it works out for you. I agree with other responses about the naivety of his ability in what he wants to spend versus reality. I think for a lot of men the cost of how much a diamond can cost is a learning curve. I agree with a former post, to tell him and say I love you and would say yes to a burger ring. My (now husband) and I when looking at rings at Tiffany - of course there were some differences in opinions! During a deep and meaningful afterwards and happy tears I told him I would say yes to anything...I was surprised how much that meant the world to him and he said I am so happy that you said that to me.

He believes that an engagement ring should be from the man 100% percent - and we ended up with the ring I wanted (though not from Tiffany) but most importantly a ring that he also was comfortable with. He says it was worth every cent he spent and every day I look at it I feel happy. On top of that the wedding and Honeymoon came after, and his wedding gift to me was an amazing honeymoon - which was something we could both enjoy :)

Think about the bigger picture :) I hope if he is the one for you everything will work out wonderfully. Congratulations as well :)
 
Just a few things, really:

1) A budget of 25K is far more than most couples have, and is certainly sufficient enough to buy something gorgeous for anyone. Well, anyone outside of idiot celebrities who will divorce in 2-6 years, regardless of the size and cost of their bling. Love being beside the point, after all.

2) A budget of 65K? Seriously? Yes, this is a diamond forum. No; that is a ridiculous sum of money for the average person. That person being YOU. Now for someone with oodles of spending cash? Not a problem. Again, that wouldn't be YOU.

3) He cannot afford your wants. He is telling you he can. Somewhere along the way, he has decided this is the budget you expect. Maybe because you've deliberately made that impression. Except, he can't afford it. And, if you know enough about him to marry him, that shouldn't have come as a surprise.

4) So if you know all of the above, AND YOU DO, why go look at diamonds in the 25K and up range?

5) And if the two of you are starting out, like this, without true communication . . . AND YOU ARE . . . well, then, good luck.
 
It doesn't seem that you are ready to marry if you don't at least have an idea what he can or cannot afford.

Two things can be happening here:
A) your expectations are too high for his means and the poor guy is trying to finance a purchase he cannot afford :nono:
B) he is yanking your chain and is not really interested in marrying you :nono:

Hopefully it is a case of A and if you really care about the guy, then lower your expectations significantly.

As others have said before, you should really talk about finances. If you cannot openly do that, then you are not ready.
 
Any update? Have you found a ring you both love?
 
Hi,

So really sorry for your sadness. I'm sorry to say I agree with Feb Bride who cautioned you that this man may be in debt or concealing some important financial facts from your relationship. Some men, in order to impress you just make up things. I'd say he doesn't have the money and doesn't want to admit it. He needs a loan for the purchase. Not a good start.

As hard as it may be you must find out about his financial life. Don't go ahead until this is done.

The women here will help you or your so with a great purchase. Good luck to you.


Annette
 
i also expected from my now husband a lot while we were dating. I didn't want the ring he wanted to get me at the time. So we got married without one!!! not a big deal if you love each other. Now 5 years later we finally started shopping for one:-) that bling is not that important in relationships. You can just ruin it by expecting him to buy smth he can not afford at this moment. Doesn't mean he woudln't get you 3c down the road. Be smart and value the man who is willing to marry you! Some women (like myself) are never satisfied with materialistic objects. I'm learning not to be that way....you can do it too!!! don't be upset about it. I used to cry if my husband didnt buy me a chanel bag or smth bc he knew how much i wanted it ( i do have it now:-) so just be patient and give him a chance!!!!!!
 
I definitely think you need to have an honest heart to heart with your boyfriend about finances. It sounds like he really is not being honest on whether he is even put away anything for a ring. If he is not honest about this, it is possible he is not being forthright with other things. How would you feel if you found out he was in debt up to his eyeballs and just didn't tell you about it. You can't get married to some one that can't even be honest with you.
 
I didn't read the entire thread but I think that I'm the only guy to respond (and since I joined this forum because I was fretting over my engagement ring purchase- I hadn't planned on contributing to any other posts). I feel compelled to respond to your post because I can sympathize with your boyfriend.

If your boyfriend is like me, and most other guys (even though they wouldn't admit it), he's very worried about pleasing you/making you happy. So he may promise things that are a little out of reach but goals he thinks he can reach with effort. But sooner rather than later he is going to have to deliver on his promises (maybe by bringing them down to earth).

At first I thought that you seemed ungrateful but as a read more it became plain to me that you're just frustrated with broken promises. I'm not betraying the brocode by saying that we do develop more slowly than girls and that we can learn a lot from you.

I agree that you and him should have a talk about finances (I've that same talk with my girlfriend). It's not easy for me (because I've made some stupid decisions in the past) but I've had to fess up to them.

In the end the most important part of your relationship is happiness. Happiness isn't about diamonds (or rubies or sapphires anything else). It's about your relationship- making it work (by working at it), keeping it healthy and laying down a foundation that will get you through the rough patches.

Good luck with your purchase but more importantly good luck with your lives together. And if you can part with some of the $25k budget feel free to toss it my way; I'd like to spruce up my girlfriend's engagement ring!
 
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