How much would you pay for a new setting?

[lissyflo]

Not that I'm obsessively stalking parcels of French cuts to fuel my daydreaming

 

[luv2sparkle]

I'm wondering if maybe $15,000 Setting cost was a deterrent from wanting work with you? I'm not saying that is the case here, but I have heard in other cases in other industries of vendors giving a price they know to be totally out of line to scare the customer off of jobs they don't want to do.

I have seen cases in the past where people have posted about quotes from certain PS vendors and that is what I thought was going on. In this case the disparity between VC and EW might be explained by this. Just a thought.

The opposite happens in certain industries as well, where a vendor will underbid and do the work at a loss to put it on their resume for future opportunities.

Going back to the OP, myself I don't think I could pay more that 3000 for a setting. Maybe 5 for something hand forged. But the settings being discussed here are not my taste. If they were, I'd pay the premium for french cuts.

I dont think that is the case here. I just sent an email for a quote on the setting and EW doesn't know me from Adam. Unless, she doesn't want to work with people who have their own stone. I did tell her who I was on PS but I really don't think that would go against me. I can't think of a single reason I would be singled out. I think it probably has more to do with the custom cutting of the French cuts.

 

[Skhii]

Is it me or is the pricing on these (or the stated carat weight) off? Grace has a higher weight parcel, similar colour range and clarity, also cut by Yoram for less than half this price! And hers is for less stones (12 vs 7), so presumably there's a premium on hers as each stone is a higher carat weight and hence more expensive. Maybe I'm missing something?

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-17ctw-french-cut-diamond-parcel

My guess is that it is more laborious to cut an identical set of calibrated diamonds. The two sides need to be as symmetrical as possible, have a smooth transition on the edges, and have the same color and clarity. The $3,050 parcel is F/G/H VS, and the measurements differ quite a lot from each other, so they won't make a perfectly symmetrical channel band. Maybe in addition to labor, there is more rough loss since they need to match, or DBL could also be more expensive than JbG overall.

I really wonder whether it's labor or rough loss that is the bulk of the cost for French cuts...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think the reason we don't see many EW rings posted here is because they are extremely high priced even compared to highly skilled pave master artisans such as Victor and SK. As someone already said EW worked at PS and previously worked at Singlestone, and Erica Derout of Love Affair Diamonds is the one who has worked with Grace and CVB. EW has a few very lovely designs, but the jewelry design business is relatively new for her. In my opinion, she'd sell a lot more of her rings if they were priced appropriately (such as at Victor and SK level), but she apparently prefers to sell fewer and charge more. Singlestone is now too high, as well, and I recently went to their trunk show, and I can attest that CVB's work is absolutely equal or even better for a much lower price.

For the record, I am sure Caysie is happy to source custom french cuts from Yoram if people request it and are willing to pay the higher price and wait longer. In fact, she sourced the melee stones for the ring she is making for me now from him. I wanted his because he also cut the center stone and I don't care how long it takes. (Although custom cut stones usually make a project timeline longer, period.) On the other hand, I have a ring she made with a couple of really small french cuts from another source and they look fine.

I'd have either Caysie or Victor make this particular ring for me (and any rings, for that matter).

 

[mrs-b]

I once got a quote from Singlestone for a dbty style necklace in 18kt yellow. It was for 30", and I was providing ALL the diamonds. They were bezel setting the diamonds (22 of them, as I recall) with detail ornamentation either side of each stone. They wanted to charge me $22,300. As I recall, that didn't include the chain that connected the stations.

So if EW (who used to work at Singlestone and whose pricing may have been influenced by that) wants to charge 15k, sure - why not! I won't be buying it, of course, and I think it's excessive. But people can charge whatever they like, I suppose.

As for me, without elaborate side stones etc, my top is 6k. If I want to add another ct+ of custom cut diamonds, that's a whole different thing; that's buying diamonds, not just settings, so I think it's comparing apples and arm chairs at that point.

Having said that, tho...if I ever get the 3 stone LM setting with pear sides, he could charge me a kidney and I'd probably pay it. That damn setting is art!

EW's settings are very beautiful and her workmanship is stellar. But her prices are beyond stellar, and I think there's a disconnect there; for 15k you should be getting a named brand collector item, not a newbie, no matter how good their work.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Holy freakin cow, mrs. b, that has got to be the most ridiculous pricing I have ever heard of! Absolutely insane. I don't care how stellar their work is!
Essentially, that was 22k to bezel some stones you provided since the chain was not even included. 1k per bezel. Thank goodness there are some excellent craftsman who don't charge those kind of prices.

I actually don't think Leon's work is super expensive for the work he does and I don't think he charges a huge markup for most stones either. I, too, love his three stone with pears setting. The fluidity is gorgeous.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Actually, EW's line has several retailers across the country. You can't be a low volume jewelry designer and have retailers, much less 10 and counting (http://erikawinters.com/stores.html ). I guess despite being new in the jewelry business, she must be doing something right to accomplish this feat compared to slinging wares on Loupetroop.

I have paid for her work and appreciate the immense amount of detail and care she puts into her line that even holds up to my 30X loupe. If self-proclaimed "anal" or "OCD" PSers like Yssie and myself are extremely happy with Erika Winters' work and have had multiple projects despite the cost, I think that speaks for itself.

Both Grace and Erika are wonderful to work with!! Erika is a marvellously talented designer with an exceptional bench, and communication with both vendors was consistently remarkably quick and extremely thorough. Lists of questions were answered one by one with extra commentary, requests for assistance with logistics, design adjustments, and additional photos were indulged without hesitation, and I believe at one point I referred to Erika as a "nitpicker's wet dream" she's a persnickety perfectionist and I, contrary to my usual disposition, was completely at ease leaving this project in her hands: I trusted her to address the details and ask me about those I'd want input on. Of course, loving the first iteration of the design she came up with was a good sign

I think I've actually never exchanged fewer emails with a vendor Erika's work is definitely pricey, IMO, but it brings a commensurate experience. I felt she was "looking out for" my project and was invested in ensuring nothing slipped through the cracks. The workmanship on my earrings is exquisite - I wholeheartedly recommend both Erika and JbG and will happily go back with other projects!!

I went straight to Erika for my final setting. I wanted a designer whose vision and execution I could rely on without question or concern, and after working with her on my earrings I knew the project would be in good hands with her

Working with Erika was every bit as easy as I'd remembered: she's creative and detail-oriented, communication was clear, speedy, and thorough, and the finish is loupe-clean

Re cost of French cuts: For calibre cut french cuts, to be cut to incredibly tight mm tolerances for it to fit like a glove in a setting, it does cost quite a bit more than the run of the mill, random parcel of fcs. Many vendors have quoted me similar pricing to the SS cost due to the design and tight tolerances that it required.

@ac117 I got my photos back from our photographer, but I think I'll wait till my "party jackets" are done... afterall it was meant to be a set

 

[luv2sparkle]

ROL, you and Yssie do have some lovely pieces, and I do appreciate the quality of her work. I understand that some people will be willing to pay the high prices she demands and some will not. In the world of jewelry, there are many lines that demand a high mark up. It is just interesting to me what people are willing to pay. Some people, for instance, would never pay Tiffany prices, or buy a Louis Vuitton handbag while others readily purchase those items. This thread was more about the difference of peoples level of comfort in spending for a setting. It was never about Ericia's jewelry per se. I only posted the setting because so many people could not imagine what kind of setting would be in excess of 15k. It is lovely that you are able to have pieces that you love from a talented craftsman. This thread is certainly not to take anything away from that.

 

[Skhii]

Luv2sparkle, was your quote for 18K gold or platinum? A few years back, the Minna started at $8,500 in 18K gold (I think it was with 1.00 ctw custom-cut calibrated French cuts by Yoram).

Macro photos of Erika's work definitely show her attention to detail. For those who have had the opportunity to look at her work alongside that of VC, LM, SS, CvB and other PS-favored vendors in person, with a loupe or marco photography set-up, would you say EW's work is head and shoulders above them?

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

ROL, you and Yssie do have some lovely pieces, and I do appreciate the quality of her work. I understand that some people will be willing to pay the high prices she demands and some will not. In the world of jewelry, there are many lines that demand a high mark up. It is just interesting to me what people are willing to pay. Some people, for instance, would never pay Tiffany prices, or buy a Louis Vuitton handbag while others readily purchase those items. This thread was more about the difference of peoples level of comfort in spending for a setting. It was never about Ericia's jewelry per se. I only posted the setting because so many people could not imagine what kind of setting would be in excess of 15k. It is lovely that you are able to have pieces that you love from a talented craftsman. This thread is certainly not to take anything away from that.

Luv2sparkle my post wasn't directed towards you, but to DS as she had said some things that were simply not true and I wanted to dispell those notions. I totally understand -- I refuse to pay 1k for essentially canvas with a coating (LV) or even heck, a 15k Hermes.

I'm sorry if it felt like my post was directed to you!

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Luv2sparkle, was your quote for 18K gold or platinum? A few years back, the Minna started at $8,500 in 18K gold (I think it was with 1.00 ctw custom-cut calibrated French cuts by Yoram).

Macro photos of Erika's work definitely show her attention to detail. For those who have had the opportunity to look at her work alongside that of VC, LM, SS, CvB and other PS-favored vendors in person, with a loupe or marco photography set-up, would you say EW's work is head and shoulders above them?

I've seen it compared to SS (as I own several pieces) and I can definitely say her work is head and shoulders above them. But her aesthetic is different, so it depends on what you are looking for. KWIM?

 

[yssie]

This is an interesting thread...

It's no secret that I adore Erika's pieces and I hope to have many more in future!! Her prices are high: you're paying a premium for her eye for design, her quality of her execution, and her attention to your project.

I own pieces by many of the designers discussed here - SS, LM, VC, EW, RDG. I have seen pieces by CvB both in-person and online. I think what's been lost in some of the responses in this thread is that you always get what you pay for. Truly. Not one of these vendors needs to compromise on what they consider important to make an extra buck. All are very capable of beautiful pieces - some have strengths others don't. Caysie is an incredibly gifted designer but her workmanship is not up to the same level as the others I listed, and she doesn't charge their prices. You're getting what you pay for. Victor's pave is unparalleled - you're getting what you pay for. Leon, Single Stone, and Erika charge exorbitant fees for custom work, but part of what they're charging you for is loupe-clean workmanship, matched stones calibrated to tightest possible precision, more than the naked eye can appreciate - if that's not important to you of course it seems ridiculous to pay for it, but again, you're getting what you pay for. My RDG came in at 10k (there are no diamonds in the design and I provided all seven main stones) - it's the most expensive and elaborate setting I own and I would pay it again in a heartbeat. And I know that Leon, for example - the only other designer I know of capable of that style of artistry - would probably have charged me double that. The finish on my RDG is not as perfect as Leon's would have been. I got what I paid for.

In my opinion... it's tempting to trivialise qualities that aren't important to you personally, and to project your priorities onto other people's choices, but neither is fair or appropriate. To say "I would never pay more than $5k for EW's Minna" is simply misguided - $5k would not buy you all the characteristics of that setting. It would not buy you loupe-perfect finish. It would not buy you loupe-perfectly calibrated french cuts cut by Yoram. It would not buy you the designer's personal attention to and involvement in the crafting of your piece. I have trouble with this - when I hear someone wanting "picture perfect" I immediately jump to "whose work would I be comfortable posting 20x macro pictures of online?" and that's often not actually what's being requested!! And of course different pricepoints are desirable for different projects.

I'll just ditto @Resonance.Of.Life - Erika will never make most of the pieces Leon will: her aesthetic is different. Leon would never make most of the pieces Single Stone makes - his aesthetic is different. And round and round the circle (which includes many more designers than the few brought up here) we go. It's my experience that vendors who try to do everything always fall short of excelling in anything - when you work with designers who will say "no, that's not my style" (because they have a specific style), or "no, I refuse to compromise on quality of <xyz> to lower cost, let's rethink" (because they can afford to turn projects down over philosophical preferences) you have confidence that the result will be unyieldingly superb.

 

[yssie]

Edit - @mrs-b that SS quote for that DBTY was absolute insanity, no questions to ask and no discussion to be had. Good grief

 

[luv2sparkle]

Yssie, I so appreciate your imput and agree with everything you said. You do get what you pay for. That is important if what you are wanting is a loupe clean piece of art. I think many of us here are not really looking for that or expecting that. We are looking for a lovely piece of jewelry that we can enjoy looking at every day, and I might also add, a piece to jewelry that will hold up long term. That is where the difference comes in at times.

I have to say, that even though I know that Leon is not terribly popular on here at times, I LOVE every single thing he does. I love his pave so much it takes my breath away. However, it is not the most suited for everyday life. I don't feel that I am terribly hard on my jewelry but my ring has sustained some damage. So, I don't really look at jewelry as art, or maybe it would be better to say, I don't neccessarily want to wear art on my finger where it can get damaged.
I appreciate your point about the tight specifications in cutting the stones that Yoram does. His stones are beautiful. Maybe for the pieces by certain designers his specs are tighter. It would be interesting to know that.
I am glad that there are so many artisans who make jewelry that we can all find a price point and a style that fits within our own parameters. I don't need or want an absolutely perfect ring. The loupe perfect ring you described isn't the only one that will make my heart sing, although I can appreciate every single thing about it. I do love excellent craftsmanship, so maybe there is a balance between the two?

ROL, I didn't take any offense to your post at all. I just wanted to make it understood that my intention was not to criticize Erica's work at all. I respect it greatly.

Where a person is in life, might make a difference in how much they want to spend on a setting as well. When I was in my thirties, I might have liked to spend a grand amount and have the most perfect ring. But, raising five kids at the time, wouldn't have allowed me to to that. Now, at 57, it just doesn't seem so important to me. But, that said, should I win the lottery, the first thing I am doing is getting myself a Minna-LOL.
I admit, when I first saw the email quote, I almost choked on my coffee, but the more I thought about it, I was really interested to know where others parameters fell. So thank you, to everyone who commented and shared what they thought. I still find it interesting and thought provoking.

 

[yssie]

@luv2sparkle you're a class act I'm looking forward to your decision and I'm confident whatever you decide will be the best decision you could have made in your journey to a one-of-a-kind beauty!

I do love excellent craftsmanship, so maybe there is a balance between the two?

Where a person is in life, might make a difference in how much they want to spend on a setting as well.

I couldn't agree more with both of these points. We're lucky to have so many wonderful artists to choose from for all our projects! For some projects I might want loupe-perfect execution, for some I'm looking for a low pricepoint, for some I want that balance between those extremes that you bring up... the main thing I was trying to convey is that there's value to be had at both extremes and at all points in-between, depending on what one's priorities for a particular project are, and to negate the existence of that value altogether at the upper end of the price scale, or pass it off as ignorance or naivete on the part of the designer, simply because it's more than that person would pay given his personal priorities is both untrue and unfair to the designer in question.

As an aside - I used "you" a fair amount in my post earlier, but my comments weren't directed at you or anyone in particular! "One" was getting unwieldy, I object to "him/her", and I object more to just "him" in place of "him/her" so... more detail than you wanted, I'm sure

 

[luv2sparkle]

Yssie, thank you for your kind words. I didn't take any offense to anything you said. I appreciate so much your taking the time to add your thoughts and I certainly value your opinion on it's own but also because you own pieces made by Erica.

 

[mrs-b]

Edit - @mrs-b that SS quote for that DBTY was absolute insanity, no questions to ask and no discussion to be had. Good grief

I kept the quote (it came in email form) just because it was so unbelievable.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

I've seen it compared to SS (as I own several pieces) and I can definitely say her work is head and shoulders above them. But her aesthetic is different, so it depends on what you are looking for. KWIM?

To clarify, I have an EW piece

 

[mrs-b]

I think, in all good conscience, I need to modify my post. It has become immediately apparent to me that I'm willing to pay a great deal more than 6k...for something I REALLY WANT. It strikes me now that my 6k limit was because I couldn't find anything I truly loved and that I thought would cut the mustard for me. So then it's like - "why would I pay more than 6k??" But now I'm looking at MC2 settings and - voila! 10k? 12? No problem!

I do think, tho, that the hours of work in a piece makes a huge difference to price. You *do* pay for talent - and rightly so - and also originality. But you also pay for sheer man hours. For instance, if you look at paintings for sale - from great artists - the price always goes up in accordance with the size; the more hours, the higher the price.

And - again - you can't compare a ring with a ct of custom cut diamonds to a ring without. So all that to say, it depends what you're buying, as to how it should be priced. And then it's driven - or not - simply by how much you want it.

 

[Matthews1127]

I won't lie...
I fully expected to pay between $2,500-$5,000 for my setting because it was so difficult to find the style I wanted. The setting of my dreams was intricately detailed, and Art Deco Era/ Vintage-inspired. I knew the craftsmanship would carry a hefty price. Not to mention, adding diamonds to the setting. I imagined the nightmare of creating a bespoke setting that would cost well over expected budget.
When I literally stumbled upon the setting I have, I was shocked that it was under $2,000! Relieved, but shocked!
Today, even if I added larger diamonds, or chose a halo or a three stone diamond setting, I wouldn't go over $5,000...even if it were a bespoke piece. I'm a lover of fine detail, and beautiful craftsmanship...but I'm practical (damn, why? lol!). I couldn't put that kind of money ($15k) into a setting...regardless of the reason. Knowing VC can produce an identical piece for HALF that price, that's a no-brainee for me! VC is someone I plan to work with, in the future. Caysie is another on my list. I have no doubt VC will produce perfection for less.
You're not the only one who believes that $15k is far too much for a setting...esp when you know you can get it somewhere else, with excellent reputation, for considerably less.

 

[arkieb1]

I'm not sure using Caysie is a fair comparison because she uses a few different bench people, what that means is two of the high end people are as good as Singlestone or better IMHO, and some of the other benches she uses are what I would describe as for people on budgets ie they replicate intricate designs from her high end bench guys but don't have the level of detail they do. So if you then compare it to the others mentioned in the discussion here, you have to understand her work has different levels of finish, so even with her YES, you get what you pay for.

And as for the others they are all very different, David Michael is head and shoulders above the rest for beautifully intricate designs, that's what you pay for, their pave is way under the quality of the rest especially Victor's and even Caysie's high end bench I'd argue can produce better tighter pave, and the metalwork I have in one of their rings was particularly underwhelming as well, but I would pay them for a unique designed one off piece. Leon you pay for a fluidity of aesthetics that IMHO many of the others lack. All of them can charge what they like, clearly they are all still in business so there are people out there that are willing to pay what they are asking for a small work of art. Only each person can make the decision if that is worth it to them.

Some people are into settings some people are more into the centre stones others are not into either - as Kenny would say people vary.....