shape
carat
color
clarity

How much $ is given at weddings these days?

Yes people vary and I have no problem if they want to spend a zillion on the dress and a hundred zillion on the rest of the wedding.
No problem ... that is if they can afford it.

IMHO the problem is guests now feel an obligation to help finance weddings that have gotten very expensive.

IMHO, expecting others to finance your day (which helps pay for the huge diamond the dress, the videographer, the hall and honeymoon) is wrong.
If you need one penny from guests you overextended yourself, and IMHO the whole dynamic of the wedding has changed for the worse.

Yes people vary; some are overindulging narcissists, then expect others to pay for it. :nono:

This thread has been an eye opener for me.
 
I am Chinese and so are many of my friends so perhaps giving just cash is very common. With that said, I have been to Italian weddings and all sorts of other weddings where cash is also preferred. I know if may be tacky for some but in my invitations - I said "no boxed gifts please". Our invitations was a comic book and on that page we had a hoarders truck in front our home. We ended up receiving 3 or 4 boxed gifts - a beautiful picture frame and few other things that are sitting in the box still.

It is also common practice among my social circle to give services if that made sense. One of our friends made wedding cakes and she gave us our wedding cake as a gift. In return, we provided photo booth services at their wedding and we also lent them our candy table jars. We discussed this and just put it out there as an option if they wanted it or we could give a gift. Another friend picked up our deserts and delivered them to the wedding venue as a gift. Another friend is an illustrator and she did all the graphics for our save the date, wine bottles and invitations. Another friend is a singer and she sang at our wedding as our gift. The point is that we are all pretty flexible and very happy for them to give whatever makes sense.

My husband and I have been living together for 3 years before we got married and have everything we need in our home. We didn't even have a wedding registry as we didn't need anything for the home. I don't want our guest wasting time buying a gift or getting us something that we will end up sitting in the box. Our friends and family fully understood this and my friends would want cash reciprocation as well. I personally don't see this as an issue and I think it is pretty common practice in Toronto where I live.

I should note that $400 is what we give as a couple now in our 30s. When we first graduated, we couldn't afford as much and we obviously gave less - I think back then we were giving $250 per couple which was around standard since our friends were also younger and starting out.
 
kenny|1364778256|3417667 said:
Yes people vary and I have no problem if they want to spend a zillion on the dress and a hundred zillion on the rest of the wedding.
No problem ... that is if they can afford it.

IMHO the problem is guests now feel an obligation to help finance weddings that have gotten very expensive.

IMHO, expecting others to finance your day (which helps pay for the huge diamond the dress, the videographer, the hall and honeymoon) is wrong.
If you need one penny from guests you overextended yourself, and IMHO the whole dynamic of the wedding has changed for the worse.

Yes people vary; some are overindulging narcissists, then expect others to pay for it. :nono:

This thread has been an eye opener for me.

Kenny, I totally agree with you on this. When my dh and I got married we had no expectations and certainly did *not* expect people to cover their plates. We were happy people wanted to come and share in our happy day and all that jazz. And the gifts were appreciated but not expected/demanded/needed for our wedding expenses. And, to my knowledge, no one has ever come out and said to a guest you have to cover your plate/my wedding expenses. Is that the unspoken rule? Who knows. I am sure some people feel that way. Is that the norm now? Perhaps. I really don't know. But I know when I like someone and am happy for them and want to share their day with them that I want to get them the gift that they will appreciate most. So we give cash. Yes, some people are overindulging narcissists. But not everyone who has a wedding/reception with guests is. So you pick and choose whose wedding you want to attend and whose you do not. It's a free country. Oops, not so free if we're talking $$$. :oops: :lol:


CharmyPoo said:
I am Chinese and so are many of my friends so perhaps giving just cash is very common. With that said, I have been to Italian weddings and all sorts of other weddings where cash is also preferred. I know if may be tacky for some but in my invitations - I said "no boxed gifts please". Our invitations was a comic book and on that page we had a hoarders truck in front our home. We ended up receiving 3 or 4 boxed gifts - a beautiful picture frame and few other things that are sitting in the box still.

It is also common practice among my social circle to give services if that made sense. One of our friends made wedding cakes and she gave us our wedding cake as a gift. In return, we provided photo booth services at their wedding and we also lent them our candy table jars. We discussed this and just put it out there as an option if they wanted it or we could give a gift. Another friend picked up our deserts and delivered them to the wedding venue as a gift. Another friend is an illustrator and she did all the graphics for our save the date, wine bottles and invitations. Another friend is a singer and she sang at our wedding as our gift. The point is that we are all pretty flexible and very happy for them to give whatever makes sense.

My husband and I have been living together for 3 years before we got married and have everything we need in our home. We didn't even have a wedding registry as we didn't need anything for the home. I don't want our guest wasting time buying a gift or getting us something that we will end up sitting in the box. Our friends and family fully understood this and my friends would want cash reciprocation as well. I personally don't see this as an issue and I think it is pretty common practice in Toronto where I live.

I should note that $400 is what we give as a couple now in our 30s. When we first graduated, we couldn't afford as much and we obviously gave less - I think back then we were giving $250 per couple which was around standard since our friends were also younger and starting out.

Totally agree. Why not get what the couple can most use? I see nothing wrong with that.
 
CharmyPoo|1364744930|3417357 said:
We usually give $400 but we had some pretty cheap guests (along with very generous ones) at our wedding. Our wedding was really expensive per head and we didn't even make back half of what we spent.

It's actually interesting .. with the older crowd, the richer the people were the less they gave. With our friends, it was pretty much standard - get what you gave.

Agreed regarding the friends thing. For the most part my friends gave 150+ per person. Close family gave a lot more but I typically give what I got. There has only been one wedding that I have been to so far that I've given only 125$ (as a couple) to. And actually, that was really generous. Also, I'd like to add that I do not like giving actual objects as gifts when I go to weddings. I think giving money (I think it's a cultural thing for me) is the best way to go. All of my friends are in their 20's so I think 300$ per couple is pretty good for people our age. I did not have a wedding registry for my wedding as my husband and I were living together for quite some time before we got married. I did have a lot of people inquire about what I wanted and I was honest and said money was best. I found it kinda laughable that several people that came to my wedding, who make really good money, gave me 35$. These particular people drank their faces off and ate a crap ton of our food with zero regard as to how much we were spending on them. I know it sounds gift grabby but I couldn't help but feel pretty annoyed about that. It's tasteless and rude.
 
Kenny, just one more thing I wanted to add. Most of the weddings we have gone to (including this one in May that we are going to) have not been paid by the couple but by the parents. So, in essence, we are not "covering our plate/their expenses" but giving a gift to the bride and groom that they can use to build their future together. Or whatever the heck they want to do with it. A gift is a gift to be used by the recipient in any way they choose. Just wanted to clarify that in my situation it will not go towards the actual expense of the wedding/dress etc. This couple has that covered as did all our friends who got married before them.
 
Also wanted to add that I recently attended a very expensive wedding. The girl whose wedding it was came to mine too and I just reciprocated what she gave. I don't think she expected anyone to give her more cash than she had given herself at the weddings that she attended. Her parents paid for her wedding in full and she seemed pretty satisfied regardless. She did mention that there was one person who gave her NOTHING. :eek:

I think it's also important to consider the location of the wedding, geographically speaking as well as cultural aspects.
 
rosetta|1364777657|3417659 said:
kenny|1364776718|3417643 said:
Wow, it really sounds like many people think of the cash 'gift' as the admission ticket price to a show, especially how the term 'per plate' came up. :knockout:
I'm floored.
I had no idea since I haven't been to a wedding for around 40 years.

Maybe wedding budgets have gotten out of hand if guests feel obligated to help finance the event.

This isnt the case in the UK. No one "covers the plate" here AFAIK. I certainly didnt expect them to finance my wedding!

My wedding gifts ranged from $20 to $500, with the most expensive gifts being from our guests with the least money. Yeah, go figure. Some of our richest guests gave seriously laughable gifts,that frankly I'd be embarrased to give. Guess the reason they're rich is coz they're super stingy! :lol:
rule # 1 :read: ...don't invite rich people a wedding... :lol:
 
kenny|1364778256|3417667 said:
IMHO the problem is guests now feel an obligation to help finance weddings that have gotten very expensive.

This thread has been an eye opener for me.


Kenny...that's the reason why i asked rosetta not to invite me to her $100K wedding.nowadays, $20K will only buy you a wedding at Mickey D's.... ;))
 
Autumnovember|1364779070|3417673 said:
CharmyPoo|1364744930|3417357 said:
We usually give $400 but we had some pretty cheap guests (along with very generous ones) at our wedding. Our wedding was really expensive per head and we didn't even make back half of what we spent.

It's actually interesting .. with the older crowd, the richer the people were the less they gave. With our friends, it was pretty much standard - get what you gave.

Agreed regarding the friends thing. For the most part my friends gave 150+ per person. Close family gave a lot more but I typically give what I got. There has only been one wedding that I have been to so far that I've given only 125$ (as a couple) to. And actually, that was really generous. Also, I'd like to add that I do not like giving actual objects as gifts when I go to weddings. I think giving money (I think it's a cultural thing for me) is the best way to go. All of my friends are in their 20's so I think 300$ per couple is pretty good for people our age. I did not have a wedding registry for my wedding as my husband and I were living together for quite some time before we got married. I did have a lot of people inquire about what I wanted and I was honest and said money was best. I found it kinda laughable that several people that came to my wedding, who make really good money, gave me 35$. These particular people drank their faces off and ate a crap ton of our food with zero regard as to how much we were spending on them. I know it sounds gift grabby but I couldn't help but feel pretty annoyed about that. It's tasteless and rude.
we will only accept Franklins :!:
 
Some people gave exactly what we gave back in cash.
Some people we found out the plate price and gave that and then some.

Other times, this is how DH and I calculate our cash gift. We set a minimum we want to give. Say $100 per plate. Is this a Friday, Saturday, Sunday wedding? Day or evening? That is taken into consideration... We keep extra cash in our wallets. If there is open bar all night, we'll add $. Was there a cocktail hour? Add $. Was there lobster? Lamb? Add $. Wait staff was amazing? Add $...

Our wedding was on labor day weekend on Sunday. We were charged Saturday prices BC Monday was off. We wondered if people would give less based on that. Most people just gave what they could. Guests in 20s and 30s gave less, understandably. Guests in 50s and up and family gave more.

If we dont have a close relationship with the couple, we'll send $50 or $100 with the reply card. Its not just the gift. There's dry cleaning dh's suit or a new one if he can't fit in his current one, and almost always a new dress for me BC my size has been changing in a bad way :angryfire:
 
kenny|1364776718|3417643 said:
Wow, it really sounds like many people think of the cash 'gift' as the admission ticket price to a show, especially how the term 'per plate' came up. :knockout:
I'm floored.
I had no idea since I haven't been to a wedding for around 40 years.

Maybe wedding budgets have gotten out of hand if guests feel obligated to help finance the event.

I'm not American, but I've lived here for 13 years. The whole wedding culture here leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gifts at Bachelorette, gifts at Wedding, the expectation that guests travel to X place to attend and spend X amount on bridal party outfits. And then the animated discussions over who gave what and why they gave so little. Here's a novel idea - focus on the MARRIAGE, not the wedding. And it's not even just weddings. It's housewarmings and baby showers and the holidays. Spend, spend, spend. :rolleyes:

Apologies in advance to anyone offended by my statements but the excessive materialism gets my goat. Also, sorry to OP, I didn't give any suggestion but felt the need to just second Kenny's thoughts. Meh, I'll get flamed for this, but surely I'm not the only one who feels this way?
 
YT|1364767074|3417565 said:
Hmm... I guess I am lucky. All the weddings I've been to, the bride and groom just wanted us to donate to a charity of our choice.

LOVELY! :appl: :))
 
rubyshoes|1364784397|3417712 said:
I didn't give any suggestion but felt the need to just second Kenny's thoughts. Meh, I'll get flamed for this, but surely I'm not the only one who feels this way?

Here, Quick!
Rubyshoes, put this flamesuit on. :sun:

fire-fighters-suit-1.jpg
 
rubyshoes|1364784397|3417712 said:
kenny|1364776718|3417643 said:
Wow, it really sounds like many people think of the cash 'gift' as the admission ticket price to a show, especially how the term 'per plate' came up. :knockout:
I'm floored.
I had no idea since I haven't been to a wedding for around 40 years.

Maybe wedding budgets have gotten out of hand if guests feel obligated to help finance the event.

I'm not American, but I've lived here for 13 years. The whole wedding culture here leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gifts at Bachelorette, gifts at Wedding, the expectation that guests travel to X place to attend and spend X amount on bridal party outfits. And then the animated discussions over who gave what and why they gave so little. Here's a novel idea - focus on the MARRIAGE, not the wedding. And it's not even just weddings. It's housewarmings and baby showers and the holidays. Spend, spend, spend. :rolleyes:

Apologies in advance to anyone offended by my statements but the excessive materialism gets my goat. Also, sorry to OP, I didn't give any suggestion but felt the need to just second Kenny's thoughts. Meh, I'll get flamed for this, but surely I'm not the only one who feels this way?

It CAN feel like that. In dh's family, there's more gift giving than my family...I swear...someone sneezes and we celebrate. It can get overwhelming $$$-wise. We are thankful that working so much has left us with little social lives so we don't get invited to weddings often. :Up_to_something:

I crochet beautiful afghans, and honestly, if someone had taken the time to create a gift from hand, it would have meant more than $$.
 
I would say around here cash gifts would be from $25 to $100 depending on how well you know the couple.
 
YT|1364767074|3417565 said:
Hmm... I guess I am lucky. All the weddings I've been to, the bride and groom just wanted us to donate to a charity of our choice.

This is perfect. I haven't had a chance to read all the responses, but the buying a gift to cover the plate/place setting (whatever it is called) rubs me the wrong way. If a couple needs to re-coup their wedding costs, they probably should have reconsidered how much they spent to begin with.
 
MC|1364788268|3417731 said:
If a couple needs to re-coup their wedding costs, they probably should have reconsidered how much they spent to begin with.

You said it better than I could!
 
gemtastic|1364774705|3417632 said:
I must run in vastly different circles.....I have never received an invitation to a wedding that requested "cash only".

Me neither. That seems terrifically tacky to me. I dunno... putting that sort of thing on the invitation just rubs me the wrong way, because it seems to assume that people will give a gift and then specify exactly what it should be.

I originally wanted to not register but have gifts be donations to charity, but my fiance didn't like that and quite a few people said that they wouldn't do that and would only give a gift/money if it was going to us. So then I felt like what was the point of that and just went around the house and found all the things that need "upgrades" and registered for them.

In somewhat related news, a total stranger gave us $100 the other day when he overheard us talking with an acquaintance about our wedding. It was so random! How do you even properly thank someone for that?

PintoBean|1364783053|3417703 said:
Other times, this is how DH and I calculate our cash gift. We set a minimum we want to give. Say $100 per plate. Is this a Friday, Saturday, Sunday wedding? Day or evening? That is taken into consideration... We keep extra cash in our wallets. If there is open bar all night, we'll add $. Was there a cocktail hour? Add $. Was there lobster? Lamb? Add $. Wait staff was amazing? Add $...

This is so bizarre to me. And yet interesting, since my wedding is coming up. This sort of thing would never have even occurred to me except I've seen people talk about it on wedding boards.
 
MichelleCarmen said:
This is perfect. I haven't had a chance to read all the responses, but the buying a gift to cover the plate/place setting (whatever it is called) rubs me the wrong way. If a couple needs to re-coup their wedding costs, they probably should have reconsidered how much they spent to begin with.

Yes! We had a destination wedding and didn't even register. There was no way I wanted people spending money to travel and buy me a gift. I hate hate hate seeing anything about gifts or registries with the invitation. It makes me want to decline the invitation with a lovely card.
 
distracts|1364789413|3417738 said:
gemtastic|1364774705|3417632 said:
I must run in vastly different circles.....I have never received an invitation to a wedding that requested "cash only".

Me neither. That seems terrifically tacky to me. I dunno... putting that sort of thing on the invitation just rubs me the wrong way, because it seems to assume that people will give a gift and then specify exactly what it should be.

I originally wanted to not register but have gifts be donations to charity, but my fiance didn't like that and quite a few people said that they wouldn't do that and would only give a gift/money if it was going to us. So then I felt like what was the point of that and just went around the house and found all the things that need "upgrades" and registered for them.

In somewhat related news, a total stranger gave us $100 the other day when he overheard us talking with an acquaintance about our wedding. It was so random! How do you even properly thank someone for that?

PintoBean|1364783053|3417703 said:
Other times, this is how DH and I calculate our cash gift. We set a minimum we want to give. Say $100 per plate. Is this a Friday, Saturday, Sunday wedding? Day or evening? That is taken into consideration... We keep extra cash in our wallets. If there is open bar all night, we'll add $. Was there a cocktail hour? Add $. Was there lobster? Lamb? Add $. Wait staff was amazing? Add $...

This is so bizarre to me. And yet interesting, since my wedding is coming up. This sort of thing would never have even occurred to me except I've seen people talk about it on wedding boards.

Distracts- that is awesome that a stranger gave you $100. I love that the person gave you the gift w/out any agenda or obligation! Very cool!
 
We married 7 years ago and from my friends and family we received nothing from some people (that upset me - I would have loved to have a card!), around $25-$40 from most friends and families whether coupled, single or with kids, and the high end was $100-$150 from a few close family.

His close friends went together on a gift and spent about £60-80 from 3 of them, and most family giving cash of £20-50.

Most of those friends are getting married now and we've been buying gifts or giving money in the £50-100 range. I expect the upcoming wedding to be more. DH is in the wedding and it's one of his oldest friends.

I much prefer to buy gifts if possible. We didn't have much money a few years ago and I shopped around quite a bit knowing the couple love the Le Creuset large casseroles. I found a nice big cast one for about 1/2 of it's retail price and we gave that. Now though everyone seems to have honeymoon registries.
 
rubyshoes|1364784397|3417712 said:
kenny|1364776718|3417643 said:
Wow, it really sounds like many people think of the cash 'gift' as the admission ticket price to a show, especially how the term 'per plate' came up. :knockout:
I'm floored.
I had no idea since I haven't been to a wedding for around 40 years.

Maybe wedding budgets have gotten out of hand if guests feel obligated to help finance the event.

I'm not American, but I've lived here for 13 years. The whole wedding culture here leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gifts at Bachelorette, gifts at Wedding, the expectation that guests travel to X place to attend and spend X amount on bridal party outfits. And then the animated discussions over who gave what and why they gave so little. Here's a novel idea - focus on the MARRIAGE, not the wedding. And it's not even just weddings. It's housewarmings and baby showers and the holidays. Spend, spend, spend. :rolleyes:

Apologies in advance to anyone offended by my statements but the excessive materialism gets my goat. Also, sorry to OP, I didn't give any suggestion but felt the need to just second Kenny's thoughts. Meh, I'll get flamed for this, but surely I'm not the only one who feels this way?

Not at all ruby. I feel the same way. It has gotten a bit nuts. But since we can afford it I don't want to make a point and/or stand on principle and give less than what is standard and customary in our area if you kwim. I really like this young couple and am happy to share their day and give a generous gift. If we couldn't afford it though I certainly would not be giving that much. So while I think it is a lot of money I am just going to suck it up and give. Would I rather give that amount to charity? Hell yes but we give lots to charity every year anyway so this isn't going to affect that in any way. That's how I can rationalize that.


Rhea said:
We married 7 years ago and from my friends and family we received nothing from some people (that upset me - I would have loved to have a card!), around $25-$40 from most friends and families whether coupled, single or with kids, and the high end was $100-$150 from a few close family.

His close friends went together on a gift and spent about £60-80 from 3 of them, and most family giving cash of £20-50.

Most of those friends are getting married now and we've been buying gifts or giving money in the £50-100 range. I expect the upcoming wedding to be more. DH is in the wedding and it's one of his oldest friends.

I much prefer to buy gifts if possible. We didn't have much money a few years ago and I shopped around quite a bit knowing the couple love the Le Creuset large casseroles. I found a nice big cast one for about 1/2 of it's retail price and we gave that. Now though everyone seems to have honeymoon registries.

Rhea, I just don't understand some people. Not to even send a card wishing you well. Not right.


amc, I have never been to a destination wedding but I agree. I would not expect any gift to one because that is a costly process. However, a lovely card and handwritten note would be amazing and maybe a small token gift. But no gift would be acceptable as well (IMO) when it comes to a destination wedding.

Thanks marcy. It really varies!

Pinto-interesting. How did you find out the plate price?

Autumn, I agree.

Distracts-that's pretty cool!! Love that story. Maybe he was hoping you would "pay it forward" at some point remembering his kind and generous act.
 
$400 for a wedding gift?! Um, that seems a bit much to me. While a gift is never something that should be expected, we spend between $50-150, depending on the person and we NEVER stick to the 'cover your plate' rule. That is just stupid to me. I agree with the post about how the couple shouldn't be having a wedding if they can't cover the expenses without considering the money they'll receive as a gift.
 
Found a website that does the calculations for you...fyi.

theweddingenvelope.com
http://www.theweddingenvelope.com/calculator.php

It calculated that my dh and I should give $330. Interesting number LOL.



FPS-it depends on many factors so there is no black and white answer. I was just looking for opinions. Demographics really plays an important part. Thanks for your input.
 
Interesting topic!

When I got married several years ago I think on average most people gave us around $225, we had a small wedding and the majority of our guests were older family members living on retirement.

I should also say that with Jewish weddings you almost always give cash. I think we actually only got 2 gifts at our wedding.

For DH and I we got married right out of college. For weddings we would do $100 then. Now we give more pending on how close we are to the couple. Usually something like $300 but if they are family that we are close with we do $500. For family/friends we don't know well and just get the random invite we usually do something small like $25-50.
 
We know plate prices based on history. There are some reception halls that are REALLY popular, so people have an idea of how much a plate is. One hall we know that they want 200 guests, on average $100-$150 per plate because we've been to 10 weddings between me and my parents.

A local wedding forum also has threads where people post plate charges to help each other budget, negotiate, etc. I didn't learn about that until I started my own wedding planning last spring.

Distracts - I learned that "gift-giving calculation" from a co-worker of mine, and as bizarre as it may seem, it makes sense to us when we think of it as we would calculate a nice dinner out. Dinner for 2 - drinks $20, appetizer $12, 2 entrees $60, 2 desserts $12. That's almost $100! (we don't eat like that, though. :-) I couldn't eat like that and save for bling! Priorities!)

I guess the "dinner" mindset takes the sting out of the heavy cash flow exiting our pockets :-P.

DH HATES the whole show=show money money aspect of wedding receptions. When people asked us (me, DH, parents0 how much per plate (I guess we don't take that as rude, but as considerate around these parts), we didn't want to tell them how much our plate was because times are tough, wallets are tight, so we didn't want people to feel obligated to cover their plates. We kept the guest list to just family and close friends. We would just tell people, that we're not disclosing the plate charge, come, enjoy, and based on your satisfaction level, calculate it that way if you must! We just want you to enjoy yourselves.
 
We got married in NYC in October and our gifts ranged from $25-500, with most couples giving around $150-200.
 
missy|1364819731|3417806 said:
Found a website that does the calculations for you...fyi.

theweddingenvelope.com
http://www.theweddingenvelope.com/calculator.php

It calculated that my dh and I should give $330. Interesting number LOL.



FPS-it depends on many factors so there is no black and white answer. I was just looking for opinions. Demographics really plays an important part. Thanks for your input.

A couple years ago, we were going to a relative's wedding. It was the first in a few years, and in a new, more expensive location. I happened to find that same gift calculator, or one like it. It gave me a very similar response. I just did it again, a few times for different locations and income levels, out of curiosity, and was interested to see that the suggested gift amounts were different by just $35.
 
That's interesting. I actually did it with 2 different scenarios also. First real life and second I checked I was the matron of honor. That resulted in a calculation of $405. So significant difference in that scenario.

The flaw with this formula is that it only has one NY box and doesn't differentiate where in NY. And that makes a big difference IMO.
 
My gifts varied wildly-I got $25 gifts on up to $500 gifts. I would say the norm was around $50 though. We got married in Virginia, and I think the area makes a huge difference.

My husband's family is from the South and they tend to give physical gifts in the South, so we definitely had to register and then keep adding things to the registry because people kept buying everything! My mom's family is from the Northeast so they're all about cash gifts, and my dad's family is Midwestern and they gave cash, too.

I did have a couple of guests who didn't give a gift, but one of them was a particularly clueless guy friend of mine, so I didn't blame him too much. I did get one really ridiculously chintzy gift from a relative that has plenty of money. My dad was pretty mad about it, which was funny, because he doesn't usually get too riled about stuff like that.

ETA we usually give cash at weddings we attend, and we usually give $100 minimum. But that's considered normal to generous among my friends. I think if I gave someone $400 they'd be shocked!
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Top