shape
carat
color
clarity

How much does a poor cut impact colour

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
I have bought and paid for a BGD tapered Tiffany in white gold, along with this BGD sig ideal diamond http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.758-l-vs2-round-diamond-ags-c-104081981007.... I thought L would be fine as I don't mine warm (not so much looking for a yellow diamond, but I'm ok with warm) and I looked at pricescope and saw many Ls I would be happy with. I have been engaged before with a F and I did not like the cold colour. I just went to a jeweler (chain with labs by this lot http://www.adgl.com.au/diamond-grading-reports.html) and saw a solitaire that was J and this thing was ugly. It was like a piece of yellow glass in a ring, clearly a terrible cut too. I couldn't get past the yellow. There was a H graded by the same company that looked fine.
I'm now really worried I've made a poor decision and am wondering if I should cancel the BGD L diamond and look for something more like a I. Should I sacrifice a bit of cut for colour? I'm not keen on going much smaller but would go to .7
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
Under lighting that emphasizes flash (such as small pointed lights high above) looking into the diamond face up, a well-cut round of low color will look relatively colorless because the fine cut results in light performance that blows your head off with colored flashes.
IOW the flashes of brightness FAR over power whatever diamond body color is there.

But the same diamond under flat even lighting will reveal more body color even face-up.

In a side view under flat even lighting both a well cut and a poorly cut round will show lots of body color.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Never sacrifice cut for any reason because that is going to be the number one factor as far as beauty goes. Assuming the cut is ideal/excellent, there is still going to be a color range that each person prefers. For modern round brilliants, I prefer G-I color (D-F would be great, too, but I prefer G-I to get greater size). There are many people here happy with J color in an ideal cut round, and there are a few with lower than J. I can easily see tint in J and lower, so I wouldn't want lower than I color, personally. I would probably take a look at that L before they set it, because I would want to be 100% sure I liked the color. I could probably do an L in an antique cut. I personally think I color is the best value for a stone that generally will face up fairly white.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
diamondseeker2006|1450155074|3961581 said:
Never sacrifice cut for any reason because that is going to be the number one factor as far as beauty goes. Assuming the cut is ideal/excellent, there is still going to be a color range that each person prefers. For modern round brilliants, I prefer G-I color (D-F would be great, too, but I prefer G-I to get greater size). There are many people here happy with J color in an ideal cut round, and there are a few with lower than J. I can easily see tint in J and lower, so I wouldn't want lower than I color, personally. I would probably take a look at that L before they set it, because I would want to be 100% sure I liked the color. I could probably do an L in an antique cut. I personally think I color is the best value for a stone that generally will face up fairly white.
They're in Texas and I'm in Australia so I can't look at it! The costs of shipping it back and forth would be too great. I've asked them to take a pic in a ring holder in natural light.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
kenny|1450154765|3961579 said:
Under lighting that emphasizes flash (such as small pointed lights high above) looking into the diamond face up, a well-cut round of low color will look relatively colorless because the fine cut results in light performance that blows your head off with colored flashes.
IOW the flashes of brightness FAR over power whatever diamond body color is there.

But the same diamond under flat even lighting will reveal more body color even face-up.

In a side view under flat even lighting both a well cut and a poorly cut round will show lots of body color.
Side view isn't a concern as I'm going to get a 6 prong setting and I just know that won't concern me. It's really having a face up yellow diamond that concerns me. Though yellow in a nice cut will surely look nicer than what I saw today.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
The J from that lab might be a GIA M so it's hard to say. And if it's poorly cut it'll exacerbate the problem. The Gavin L is still going to show a tint of yellow even face up. I'd stick with a J or better as they face up pretty white. A side profile view and the tint will be obvious. I find even I color are too tinted for me but that's me. Also don't rely too much on pics here as white balance will vary quite a bit and can make things look whiter or tinted more than they are. It's unlikely you can find an AGS Ideal L locally to get an idea if the color is acceptable. As such I might go with diamondseeker2006's advice of sticking with an I or even an H.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
I think I need to change it. This has been such a long process so I'm a bit devastated by that but it's obviously easier to make the change now. Sigh :(
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
solgen said:
The J from that lab might be a GIA M so it's hard to say. And if it's poorly cut it'll exacerbate the problem. The Gavin L is still going to show a tint of yellow even face up. I'd stick with a J or better as they face up pretty white. A side profile view and the tint will be obvious. I find even I color are too tinted for me but that's me. Also don't rely too much on pics here as white balance will vary quite a bit and can make things look whiter or tinted more than they are. It's unlikely you can find an AGS Ideal L locally to get an idea if the color is acceptable. As such I might go with diamondseeker2006's advice of sticking with an I or even an H.
Labs here in Australia have pretty reasonable grading standards. They are certainly nothing like EGLs.

L is actually a warm color and its not uncommon for Js to show tint. If you think a J was warm for you, L will be warm.

But good news Australia is a bright country and an L color will look pretty good outdoors!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
Who cares?
Good cut is priority 1!
 

everstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
42
Shellcm|1450219931|3961953 said:
They have assured me I will only see colour if I look for it. She thinks I should stick with the L instead of going to another non ideal I. Should I go against her advice and get this instead? http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-688416

She's lying and just trying to make a sale. Yes, even these "honest" online retailers will say whatever they want you to hear to make their job easier.

Go with your gut. You already said that you're worried about L color. If you're already worried, you're not going to be able to stop thinking about it when you receive the diamond. I initially had a 1ctw J colored diamond that I had to ship back to WhiteFlash even though they told me I would only see the warmth from the side. I believed them that it would be ok, but I saw it every time I looked at the diamond, and I was working with a GIA certified gemologist at WhiteFlash. You think he would've saved me the trouble, but no.

Them saying "you will only see colour if I look for it" is code for "it is yellow."

Look, J is already pretty bad. Imagine how L will be. Most stores actually don't even sell L. Go with your gut and get the best diamond you can live with for the best price.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
This is a friend's very well cut .80ct L.

VW-80p-L-VS2.jpg


These are a very well cut .48ctL that I used to have. The white stone is a .84ct D.

LW-GOG48pt-DandLsideways2.jpg

LW-GOG48pt-inside.jpg

LW-GOG48pt-DandLfaceup.jpg
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
kenny|1450222519|3961975 said:
Who cares?
Good cut is priority 1!
Who cares about colour? If she's right and it's only going to be there if I'm looking for it that's awesome great. Having said that I don't even mind it being there when I'm not looking for it, so long as it's subtle. She gave me the example that she has a BGD in a J and it's white. That's comforting - but what I took from this thread is that L is not a good idea so I am wondering if J and L are actually worlds apart and she might not have seen it (they are too busy to self me a natural light pic). I take 'a bit of tint' to be a literal description when talking about colour, but the Stone I saw yesterday couldn't be described as such so I thought I'm perhaps underestimating low colours. Having she and you who are in the business tell me to go with the L (I think that's what you are saying) is reassuring.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
Andelain|1450224503|3962002 said:
This is a friend's very well cut L.

LW-GOG48pt-DandLsideways2.jpg



These are a very well cut L that I used to have. The white stone is a D.

VW-80p-L-VS2.jpg

LW-GOG48pt-inside.jpg

LW-GOG48pt-DandLfaceup.jpg

I saw this one before making the purchase and it was one of the ones that made me think L would be fine.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
everstone|1450223848|3961989 said:
Shellcm|1450219931|3961953 said:
They have assured me I will only see colour if I look for it. She thinks I should stick with the L instead of going to another non ideal I. Should I go against her advice and get this instead? http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-688416

She's lying and just trying to make a sale. Yes, even these "honest" online retailers will say whatever they want you to hear to make their job easier.

Go with your gut. You already said that you're worried about L color. If you're already worried, you're not going to be able to stop thinking about it when you receive the diamond. I initially had a 1ctw J colored diamond that I had to ship back to WhiteFlash even though they told me I would only see the warmth from the side. I believed them that it would be ok, but I saw it every time I looked at the diamond, and I was working with a GIA certified gemologist at WhiteFlash. You think he would've saved me the trouble, but no.

Them saying "you will only see colour if I look for it" is code for "it is yellow."

Look, J is already pretty bad. Imagine how L will be. Most stores actually don't even sell L. Go with your gut and get the best diamond you can live with for the best price.

Gosh - this is why I'm jumping back and forth on it. I should say I've seen some js in other jewellers that looked OK. The James Allen I is the best highest colour I can find for 1900 without dipping below .7 which is the absolute max budget.
 

everstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
42
Shellcm|1450224792|3962007 said:
Gosh - this is why I'm jumping back and forth on it. The James Allen I is the best highest colour I can find for 1900 without dipping below .7 which is the absolute max budget.

No worries. Most of us have been through the same thing. We're so picky it kinda sucks the fun out of it. That was my buying experience too.

Does 1900 include the setting or you have 1900 allowed for the diamond only?
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
everstone|1450225171|3962014 said:
Shellcm|1450224792|3962007 said:
Gosh - this is why I'm jumping back and forth on it. The James Allen I is the best highest colour I can find for 1900 without dipping below .7 which is the absolute max budget.

No worries. Most of us have been through the same thing. We're so picky it kinda sucks the fun out of it. That was my buying experience too.

Does 1900 include the setting or you have 1900 allowed for the diamond only?
Diamond only.
 

everstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
42
Shellcm|1450225218|3962015 said:
everstone|1450225171|3962014 said:
Shellcm|1450224792|3962007 said:
Gosh - this is why I'm jumping back and forth on it. The James Allen I is the best highest colour I can find for 1900 without dipping below .7 which is the absolute max budget.

No worries. Most of us have been through the same thing. We're so picky it kinda sucks the fun out of it. That was my buying experience too.

Does 1900 include the setting or you have 1900 allowed for the diamond only?
Diamond only.
There's also this one

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-688416
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Computer screens are not fit for gauging colors - I can assure you that.

At an L color - you should look and buy. Diamonds warm in different tints - yellow, brown, grey. While browns and greys at K and below receive a color comment yellows don't. But some yellows have secondary tints - like greyish yellow, brownish yellow, greenish yellow and so on. These mix tints will NOT receive a color comment because the primary tint is still yellow.

You should be able to look if you like tint and then make the decision. Personally if I were buying for my wife I would buy a larger K or L and put in a yellow gold or rose gold setting, if I were on a tight budget. Still opting for the best cut available.
 

VoxExMachina

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
9
everstone|1450227634|3962030 said:
Shellcm|1450225218|3962015 said:
everstone|1450225171|3962014 said:
Shellcm|1450224792|3962007 said:
Gosh - this is why I'm jumping back and forth on it. The James Allen I is the best highest colour I can find for 1900 without dipping below .7 which is the absolute max budget.

No worries. Most of us have been through the same thing. We're so picky it kinda sucks the fun out of it. That was my buying experience too.

Does 1900 include the setting or you have 1900 allowed for the diamond only?
Diamond only.
There's also this one

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-688416

I'd completely avoid this one. Questionable whether it's eye clean and there might be a slight degradation in light performance due to the inclusions. Very good symmetry isn't actually very good. Crown is too high for the pavilion angle. I could go on.


I do agree that you should look for a higher color. I looked at some M and L rounds with an ideal cut that scored under 2 on HCA and they still had a tint face up. It was a tint between an I and J color when you view them from the pavilion or upside down. The J ideal cut did face up pretty white but I couldn't get past the tint when viewed from the side. I was the lowest I could go. You'll need to see various color in ideal cuts to see what you can tolerate. I should also state that I was looking at a much larger carat size so color will be more evident.
 

ariel144

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
2,087
I saw an L color MRB loose in a jewelry store and it did NOT look yellow. It looked "steely" in color and was beautiful. I have no idea of the quality of cut but it was GIA graded. Ask the gemologist if it has a yellow tint face up or a steely tint face up.

Definitely go for cut quality first. Stones that small do not show inclusions unless they are large black carbon.

I would go for one of these amaze-balls:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.75ct-g-i1-august-vintage-round-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.58ct-j-if-august-vintage-round-diamond.html

Or an OEC:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/under-1-ct/67ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-i-vs2#.VnNaqsArIfE

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.81-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-784959
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
ariel144 said:
I saw an L color MRB loose in a jewelry store and it did NOT look yellow. It looked "steely" in color and was beautiful. I have no idea of the quality of cut but it was GIA graded. Ask the gemologist if it has a yellow tint face up or a steely tint face up.

Definitely go for cut quality first. Stones that small do not show inclusions unless they are black carbon.
Just for infos - grey tint is more discounted. It may look nice in jewellery stores - but I'd recommend anyone buying such a stone to look under neutral lights as well.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Some diamonds do not have yellow body color but can have grey or brown instead. A steely color is probably going down the color scale to grey and not yellow.
 

Diamondz1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
142
Hey OP - Is there anywhere you can go locally to see two J and L ideal cuts side by side? If not, maybe check out Good Old Gold's YouTube channel. They've posted lots of color comparison videos which may not be able to tell you exactly how they would look in person but at least you can see different colors next to each other.

This might be a start: Hearts and arrows, approx. 1ct H, J, K: https://youtu.be/L8lZS-Zy59g

(And, to add to the confusion, I like the OECs Ariel posted! If you develop an interest in antique cuts that opens a whole new can of worms, I mean world of possibilites! ;P)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I really recommend no lower than J for an engagement ring when you are not in a position to buy and return stones easily. Looks like BG doesn't have a smaller I or J stone in stock. Have you looked at Whiteflash?

Here is a picture with 3 well cut stones. One was G (unfortunately not clean in this picture), one I color, and one J color. Can you see how the J color stone is not as bright as the other two? I can see the difference in tint face up.

img_0211_1.jpg
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
Yep I looked at lots of gog videos. I really can't go higher than 1900 so the suggestions are out as much as I appreciate people looking. At this point I haven't gone back to BG as I don't know what to do. I assume once they get to my order that's it and it's too late. I don't want to drop cut quality for unknown cut to go up two colour levels which is my JA option. I guess worst case scenario it has a 100% upgrade policy and maybe in a few years I can do that. Plus a yellow gold stacker might help it out. And it's quite small so I don't think it will be as noticeable as if it was bigger. Tint from the side isn't going to break me, I'm only worried about strong tint from face up. I'm just hoping I don't hate it :( I do wish they could have looked at it in person for me. I've been trying to envisage a sparkly yet tinted stone and as long as it's not obviously yellow I'll be ok with it.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
diamondseeker2006|1450417121|3962931 said:
I really recommend no lower than J for an engagement ring when you are not in a position to buy and return stones easily. Looks like BG doesn't have a smaller I or J stone in stock. Have you looked at Whiteflash?

Here is a picture with 3 well cut stones. One was G (unfortunately not clean in this picture), one I color, and one J color. Can you see how the J color stone is not as bright as the other two? I can see the difference in tint face up.
Whiteflash doesn't have anything in budget either. See I'd be happy with any of those stones. I don't see any colour in the J - I see it's different but I'm not an aficionado nor expecting miracles for my budget.
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
ariel144|1450400037|3962851 said:
I saw an L color MRB loose in a jewelry store and it did NOT look yellow. It looked "steely" in color and was beautiful. I have no idea of the quality of cut but it was GIA graded. Ask the gemologist if it has a yellow tint face up or a steely tint face up.

Definitely go for cut quality first. Stones that small do not show inclusions unless they are large black carbon.

I would go for one of these amaze-balls:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.75ct-g-i1-august-vintage-round-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.58ct-j-if-august-vintage-round-diamond.html

Or an OEC:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/under-1-ct/67ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-i-vs2#.VnNaqsArIfE

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.81-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-784959
Ok I could cancel my BGD order and put the .75 in this.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/solitare-noble-designer-engagement-ring-for-a-round-diamond-center.html
Thoughts?? Or if I got the .67 do they do simpler (less expensive) settings?
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top