How important is it to buy the ring your girlfriend asks for?

[MissDimity]

Date: 1/29/2009 5:54:39 PM
Author: moneyman
Just heard back from this diamond:

http://www.szul.com/d_3464322_GIA-certified-1.8ct-Round-diamond-E-SI1.html


It''s supposed to be eye clean and has the following characteristics:


Table: 59%;

Depth: 61.3%;

Crown angle: 34.0%;

Pavilion angle: 41.4%;

Pavilion height: 14.0%;


Yikes, HCA score is 5.0 eventhough GIA cut grade is excellent....but I guess there''s probably already a topic on PS for that.

Yeah

this thread
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-cut-grade-but-bad-hca.105879/
is currently discussing GIA excellent cut grades vs HCA

 

[moneyman]

Date: 1/29/2009 5:55:07 PM
Author: NeverEndingUpgrade
the diamond I listed above rates an 0.5 on the HCA, Ex/Ex/Ex. The wire price is $13,954, only $170 dollars over the WF one. Unless you have an aversion to I color, I would think it would be a better deal. Tiffany goes down to I-color, so it''s not a bad thing. I have one and it is plenty white. This one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3659/

Is Szul a PS vendor?

No, Szul is not a PS vendor, just a random company whose spam emails I just happened to have in my inbox. Everything about the diamond you bring up looks good, I''m just not sure what to think of I color. When I was looking at diamonds in stores, I never looked at anything lower than a G.

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Most diamond stores sell crappily cut diamonds, which is why they never show lower colors because they would look very yellow. My first ideal cut diamond was an H color, my next one an I color, and I have just recently bought a J color. My I color is extremely white and sparkly. If you are at all interested in that one, why don't you have it shipped to you to take a look at it? I think you would be pleasantly surprised. I stress that if it is good enough for Tiffany, then it must be good enough. Do you have a Tiff near you, you could look at an I color in person?

 

[I Love My Sailor]

Just a note: A well cut diamond can enhance the look of color and clarity. You can have a poor cut H look the same as a well cut J

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Well said, ILMS! Here is a thread showing some gorgeous I color diamonds: Link

 

[Rhea]

The Infinity that Cara and Gypsy posted looks nice. The H, SI1.

I colour faces up nicely to a lot of people on here, myself included. I second NEL, if you have a Tiffany near you then you should check out different colours.

 

[MissDimity]

Ditto, I love My salior,
Cut is Key!!!
A well cut diamond will face up whiter and brighter!!!

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 1/29/2009 4:22:05 PM
Author: oldminer
Moneyman;

You should not spend $13K from the $20K savings you have while you are unemployed. Ask her if she'll marry you and tell her that when you are back at work you will find her a 2 carat diamond she will love. This approach may be the best test of your long term relationship you will find BEFORE you are married. With 20K in the bank and no job, I would not buy a big or costly diamond. Buy her a big, temporary CZ or a smaller engagement ring and replace it with a big diamond when you can afford it..... I apologize to all the vendors and people will be distrurbed by my advice. Of course, you don't have to take it, so just consider me an old guy who isn't with it....That's okay, too.

No.....youre not an `old guy`!!!! this is excellent advice imo.

 

[Black Jade]

Date: 1/29/2009 5:08:39 PM
Author: NovemberBride
I have to agree with OldMiner. I do not think it is prudent in this economy to spend such a large portion of your savings while unemployed. I know of people who have been unemployed for over a year and it is only getting worse right now. I would have been horrifed if my DH had bought my ring while unemployed as it would have raised serious questions for me about our financial compatibility and future stability. I know you said she made a good living, but is she making enough/willing to support you financially if your savings run out before you get a job because you spent 33-50% of them on her e-ring?

I don''t want to be rude, but I wouldn''t marry a guy who did this, either.
It sounds as if she made some (rather vague) remarks about the kind of ring she''d like in the future, while you were employed, assuming you would stay employed, back before the economy imploded. I''m sure she doesn''t want you to spend this kind of money now--the whole situation has changed. The CZ is the best idea I''ve heard here. I can understand that you want to get married after 11 years, but why do you think you need to spend big bucks to get married? You may have other savings, but you need to keep all you can, the times are very uncertain. Buying an expensive ring now is not romantic--it is silly.
You know, you could get married and she could get pregnant, to bring up one scenario, even if it is not ''planned.'' Some women have complications then and can''t work, at least for a while. What if there were three of you to support and no job between the two of you? How would you feel looking at $15,000 on her finger and how would she feel?
If it were me I''d rather wait on the ring until things were a lot more settled. I would love you more for thinking sensibly about the future--and I''d wear my CZ with pride (and anyway, who would know?)

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Date: 1/29/2009 4:34:35 PM
Author: moneyman

Date: 1/29/2009 4:22:05 PM
Author: oldminer
Moneyman;

You should not spend $13K from the $20K savings you have while you are unemployed. Ask her if she'll marry you and tell her that when you are back at work you will find her a 2 carat diamond she will love. This approach may be the best test of your long term relationship you will find BEFORE you are married. With 20K in the bank and no job, I would not buy a big or costly diamond. Buy her a big, temporary CZ or a smaller engagement ring and replace it with a big diamond when you can afford it..... I apologize to all the vendors and people will be distrurbed by my advice. Of course, you don't have to take it, so just consider me an old guy who isn't with it....That's okay, too.

Oldminer, I think it's actually great advice. Thank you very much for giving advice from your heart!!! I only have $20k in the bank account, but have about 14x as much in other liquid savings so I feel like I should indeed splurge and buy her something kind of close to what she wants since we don't have student loans, car payments, mortgages at this point. In addition, I feel a lot better about things because she has a fairly secure job and makes quite a bit - definitely enough to help with the cost of the wedding. So long story short, I think your advice is great and absolutely correct, but at the same time i am comfortable spending the $13-15k (maybe even up to $20k if I find an amazing deal) on this ring.

Once again, thank you for your honest advice!!

No offense everybody, but this thread was intended to get advice on what diamond to buy, not to get advice on whether or not the OP can afford to get one. That is his business. We have no way of knowing what his FF would want, but personally, I would want a small diamond over a CZ any day. Go ahead and shoot me, I have my helmet on.

 

[moneyman]

I am EXTREMELY greatful for everyone's thoughts. It's rare to come across a forum like this where people take so much care to assist a poster even when he is brand new to the site. I'm actually pretty blown away by this. I was telling my parents about this site earlier today and about how many great responses I'd gotten already today.

I have thought about my current situation for quite a bit now. The uncertainty is a bad thing for sure, I can attest to that, but with all factors considered, I think $13-15k is an acceptable amount to spend on this ring. I am cautious by nature and like being cautious, but at the same time, I don't want to feel like my life is on hold.

In regards to those who have suggested super ideal diamonds with H and I colors, I am indeed skeptical of how they will look, but I basically live across the street from a Tiffany's and hopefully I have a chance to stop by tomorrow. What should I ask for when I'm there? The H and I diamonds that have been suggested to me on this thread were "super ideals," but I'm not sure how to ask for one of those at Tiffany's since I can't tell one GIA excellent cut from another. Would I walk up to the counter and ask for H or I colored diamonds with a specific crown height, crown angle, pavilion angle, depth and table?

 

[JulieN]

You might also try Jareds, or some other place that carries ridiculously overpriced AGS 0 stones.

You can ask to see the H and I color stones. If you *generally* find I to be warm, then probably they are. If you find one or two Is to be warm, then ask to see the reports. (Clearly, I'm assuming you won't find H to be warm, but if you *generally* find H to be warm, just repeat as above.)

I will give you some numbers (I believe these numbers to be OVERLY strict, and I don't follow them myself; this is just for your Tiffany visit, which will not have AGS stones.)

Table: 54-59
Crown angle: 33.5-35.5
Crown height: around 15, or 15.5
Pavilion angle: 40.6-41.1

There should be an inverse relationship, so low crown angle with high pavilion angle. Ex: 33.5-34.5 CA with PA from 41.1 to 40.8.

Ex: 34.5-35.5 CA with PA around 40.8-40.6

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/29/2009 10:58:26 PM
Author: moneyman
In regards to those who have suggested super ideal diamonds with H and I colors, I am indeed skeptical of how they will look, but I basically live across the street from a Tiffany''s and hopefully I have a chance to stop by tomorrow. What should I ask for when I''m there? The H and I diamonds that have been suggested to me on this thread were ''super ideals,'' but I''m not sure how to ask for one of those at Tiffany''s since I can''t tell one GIA excellent cut from another. Would I walk up to the counter and ask for H or I colored diamonds with a specific crown height, crown angle, pavilion angle, depth and table?

In general, I think that Tiffanys sells nicely cut diamonds. I think you should ask to see H and I color stones in the carat weight you want with ideal cut (dont need to define it too much) . If you are happy with the color you see in them (or lack thereof) then you are probably safe with getting that colour in a by-the-numbers ideal cut diamond, which will only look whiter than any lesser cut stones! If, on the other hand, you are not happy with what you see in the first stones Tiffanys pulls out, you can ask to see AGS Ideal cut grade diamonds only. Check them out loose and in rings... you will see less color set than unset.

Remember that well cut diamonds pick up the colours in their surroundings, so if the stone look yellow, look around and see if there is any yellow in the vacinity

The colour you *may* see in an I color stone will not be yellow, but rather a warmth to the diamond, like soft white or cream compared to a stark white.

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Agree, no need to go into specifics. Just ask to see an H or I color ideal cut round. Don't look at other shapes because they won't look the same. The salesperson will understand your request. I'm sure many people ask for those colors to save some money. Also, see if it is possible to view the diamonds loose against a flat white background of some kind (piece of white paper).

Compare them face up, then upside down. In the upside down position, you can see the true color, but face up you might be amazed at how similar they are. Also, if you like any of the diamonds someone posted here, it might be a good idea to put them on hold so no one else takes a liking to them. GoodOldGold for example takes a $500 deposit which they refund if you decide not to go with the diamond, and you can do that through the shopping cart on their webpage. Just click on Reserve diamond. Hope that helps!

 

[gryffindor]

Hi moneyman, I think you gotten some excellent advice here. I just wanted to add that I think the best way to judge colors and clarity is to go visit some stores and vendors and see a wide range of round diamonds for yourself. Are you in NYC? No lack of vendors to go visit there. It took me a lot of visits at a wide range of stores and viewing a lot of diamonds before I started to understand what "eye clean" and "well cut" meant. I was very fixated on higher colors, until I saw a beautifully cut H and was sold. My point is that I''m glad I came to the realization of the H color being fantastic and got over my desire for a higher color because it really allowed us to maximize our budget. The other day, my jeweler showed me a gorgeous I colored stone and I found myself wondering what it would look like on my right hand... You can get an awesome ring for the your budget. Good luck with your search.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The diamond in my avatar is superideal and H color. Seriously, I think you would be fine with H. But do go to Tiffany''s and compare colors.

And I agree with you that after 11 years, she DESERVES a ring!!!!

Not sure what all has been listed so far, but here are some of my picks:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4833/

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1848227.htm

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/29/2009 4:26:58 PM
Author: Chrono
Dave,
Thank for writing this. I too posted this as my very first reply to this thread that it isn't prudent to be spending so much at a time when the economy is down and in an unemployed status.

Thritto, I couldn't not point it out either so at least the OP has a few alternative viewpoints.

 

[ejv207]

Moneyman,

After 11 years with the same woman, you should know her pretty well. She''s given you the rough outline, you are confident enough to fill in the details (thanks to the wonderful advice and education received at PS).

By reading through the thread its appears to me that you are shying away from the warmer stones and are set against anything lower than SI1. While searching for my intended''s stone, I found "I" too warm, but "H" just right and difficult to tell from "G". I saw GIA Triple Excellents, same carat weight and color; both scoring under 2 on the HCA. They both met my definition of "eyeclean." One stone was an SI2, the other was a VS2. The difference in price was about $5k. To me, the VS2 did not justify the markup. (It is, after all, a subjective grading) In addition to your online search; do see stones in person, and make sure to see them in different lighting conditions.

Considering where you almost pulled the trigger (Harry Winston at $80k) I''d say your range of $13-15k (or even 20k)is pretty darn reasonable. Prioritize the 4C''s and find a BALANCE that satisfies you and your girlfriend. Vital to your search is to find a vendor with a generous upgrade policy; get her a stone that leaves you enough money to elope in Las Vegas or the Caribbean (possible savings of $40k on wedding!). When the economy turns around; you can always get her a larger stone.

In the end, I know she''ll be happy with whatever you get her. The details on the stone won''t matter as much as the fact that you finally proposed.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[autumngems]

Moneyman,
I would say, sure, go to Tiffany''s and see the different colors, see if you notice any hint of warm in them, look at the different clarities. Decide what you like. Then go to Whiteflash or Good old Gold and tell them what you want. They can find it and I would assure you at a better price. Also if you use Whiteflash you can upgrade later to larger and even better color. Not sure if GOG does upgrades or not but you can check.

 

[Ellen]

I just want to add, when viewing the stones, get away from the jewelers lights to really see the diamond. Preferably in bright diffused light. (by a window)

And look at them one at a time. If you put an H next to an I, you may see a difference, but you need to see what they look like alone.

 

[chrono]

Date: 1/30/2009 8:12:04 AM
Author: autumngems
Moneyman,
I would say, sure, go to Tiffany''s and see the different colors, see if you notice any hint of warm in them, look at the different clarities. Decide what you like. Then go to Whiteflash or Good old Gold and tell them what you want. They can find it and I would assure you at a better price. Also if you use Whiteflash you can upgrade later to larger and even better color. Not sure if GOG does upgrades or not but you can check.

Yes, GOG does upgrades. You don''t need to spend double and all that crap like at some jewellery store. I think you only need to spend $500 more than the original ring.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/30/2009 8:30:40 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 1/30/2009 8:12:04 AM
Author: autumngems
Moneyman,
I would say, sure, go to Tiffany''s and see the different colors, see if you notice any hint of warm in them, look at the different clarities. Decide what you like. Then go to Whiteflash or Good old Gold and tell them what you want. They can find it and I would assure you at a better price. Also if you use Whiteflash you can upgrade later to larger and even better color. Not sure if GOG does upgrades or not but you can check.

Yes, GOG does upgrades. You don''t need to spend double and all that crap like at some jewellery store. I think you only need to spend $500 more than the original ring.

Actually, they just changed that to no amount required!

http://goodoldgold.com/About_Good_Old_Gold/Policies/

 

[sklingem]

I also concur that spending a large amount of money in times of economic uncertainty is not a wise thing to do. If you still think that you want to do it, it seems that you will NOT be able to meet your GF''s stated desire. This means (as you have said) buying a smaller stone/less expensive ring.
I would discuss it with my GF. First question is whether she agrees/thinks that buying a ring at this point in time is unwise. Remember that she may feel bad/guilty if you do buy a ring when she knows that you can''t afford it. If she still wants a ring, ask her if she would REALLY be happy with a less expensive one that you may upgrade at some point in the future.
Knowing your situation though, I am a bit suprised that she has not brought the subject up - since I would expect her to be sensitive to your financial situation - which really affects BOTH of you as a couple!? I could not imagine expecting my BF to spend that kind of money when he is unemployed ...

 

[I Love My Sailor]

If your interested in buying a Tiffany, then here are a couple things to keep in mind.

You will get a great quality stone but you will pay a high premium.
You can get just as good quality for a fraction of the cost elsewhere but if you have the money then buying a Tiffany is a personal description that has no right or wrong.

When you go into Tiffany, tell then exactly what you want, this will narrow down the time you spend in the store.

Tiffany stones are cut very well, and their grading is up to par with GIA.

Stay within these numbers

Depth 60-62(a max of 62.6%)

table 54-57%

pavilion angle 40.5-41

girdle... Thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are good but avoid extremes like thin to extremely thick


Weather or not you wish to spend 12-15 K on a ring is completely your choice and there is nothing wrong with spending within your means and there is nothing wrong with spending less. I didn't have this high of a budget but you should never feel guilty for spending 12-15k only because others are going through harder times then you may be. All I can say is work hard, treat others kindly, and be as happy as you can. Don't worry about anything else.

 

[cousingigi]

I just went through an odyssey of trying to pick the right combo of c''s for the price. Here''s a good way to do it in order of priority (keep in mind this is based on GIA diamond standards. Other labs may be looser with the grading):

1) Most important!!! Pick a size-appearance threshold. The absolute minimum size of the diamond she''ll be happy with. If she wants a 2 ct diamond, she will be expecting something about 8mm in diameter. But you must remember the "spread" factor. Don''t buy simply on carat weight - buy on how big it looks. For instance, one 1.91 ct diamond might be 8.1mm in diameter while another 2.1 ct diamond might be only 7.9 mm. Why buy the one that looks smaller if it costs more?

2) Buy medium or strong fluorescence!!!! You get a great deal and it''s so beautiful.

3) Buy the best cut you can. An ideal cut (which I have) is mesmerizingly sparkly and you can''t see even the most obvious imperfections. Get at least a very good cut if you can possibly afford it.

4) Don''t waste money on super-clarity for a well-cut RB. Anything SI1 or better is probably going to look exactly the same to the naked eye and clarity really runs the price up. Depending on the circumstances, it might be worth the money to get something in the VS range, but above that, absolutely not unless you care about what the stone looks like under a microscope.

5) Don''t waste money on color, especially if you''re getting fluorescence. Even in a platinum setting, anything H or better will look very white, especially with the fluorescence factor. G-H range is ideal for strong fluorescence. F color will look good with medium or fluorescence. D-E diamonds can look "blue" with a lot of fluorescence so be careful.

6) Finally, consider the setting. In a setting with open sides like a tiffany, you might want to go a little higher on color and clarity because these will be more obvious from the sides. In a setting where only the diamond''s face is visible, you can get away with a lot more. I-J color possibly, SI2 clarity possibly. Also, with a yellow setting, you can easily go into the I-J range.

Hope this helps!!

 

[Kelli]

I''ve read the whole thread now and I can''t wait to see what you thought about your trip to Tiffanys. I WILL resist the urge to post one more picture of my beautifully white H

, but I was completely convinced I needed a colorless one too until I saw well cut H and I stones in person. ESPECIALLY if you find one with blue fluorescence, you may not see much (or any) color.

 

[chrono]

Date: 1/30/2009 8:41:03 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 1/30/2009 8:30:40 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 1/30/2009 8:12:04 AM
Author: autumngems
Moneyman,
I would say, sure, go to Tiffany''s and see the different colors, see if you notice any hint of warm in them, look at the different clarities. Decide what you like. Then go to Whiteflash or Good old Gold and tell them what you want. They can find it and I would assure you at a better price. Also if you use Whiteflash you can upgrade later to larger and even better color. Not sure if GOG does upgrades or not but you can check.

Yes, GOG does upgrades. You don''t need to spend double and all that crap like at some jewellery store. I think you only need to spend $500 more than the original ring.

Actually, they just changed that to no amount required!

http://goodoldgold.com/About_Good_Old_Gold/Policies/

Thanks Ellen. It''s good to know the policy is even better now!

 

[MissDimity]

Date: 1/30/2009 11:46:25 AM
Author: Kelli
I''ve read the whole thread now and I can''t wait to see what you thought about your trip to Tiffanys. I WILL resist the urge to post one more picture of my beautifully white H

, but I was completely convinced I needed a colorless one too until I saw well cut H and I stones in person. ESPECIALLY if you find one with blue fluorescence, you may not see much (or any) color.

Same here Kelli, I wanted a colourless diamond too until I saw this most awesome cut J diamond with strong blue fluorescence. I compared it to a D after it was set and it appeared brighter compared to it, with no hint of warmth what-so ever.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 1/30/2009 3:20:08 PM
Author: MissDimity

Date: 1/30/2009 11:46:25 AM

Author: Kelli

I''ve read the whole thread now and I can''t wait to see what you thought about your trip to Tiffanys. I WILL resist the urge to post one more picture of my beautifully white H

, but I was completely convinced I needed a colorless one too until I saw well cut H and I stones in person. ESPECIALLY if you find one with blue fluorescence, you may not see much (or any) color.

Same here Kelli, I wanted a colourless diamond too until I saw this most awesome cut J diamond with strong blue fluorescence. I compared it to a D after it was set and it appeared brighter compared to it, with no hint of warmth what-so ever.

I''ll never pay for "colorless" now that I''ve seen the "difference". In the future, I won''t pay for higher than an H, but will probably be looking for a pendant in a J, maybe even a K!

 

[moneyman]

WOW!! Unfortunately I have a very discerning eye for picking out colors on diamonds, but all this time I''ve been looking at loose diamonds - often face down on a piece of white paper. Once the diamonds are mounted and you are basically only looking at the diamonds from face down on the ring, G and H look great - or maybe it was the effects of the flourescence....or maybe the lighting. But I can say that the two H''s and one G that I looked at looked great. This is a game changer!!

I only had time to look at three diamonds at Tiffany''s, all excellent cuts but I didn''t have the luxury of getting exactly the crown angles and pavilion angle ranges I asked for because I told her it was more important to find diamonds in stock with medium to strong flourescence), but will probably go back on Monday (when my gf goes back to work - and when I''m not faced with a higher calling - go cardinals!). I would also love to go back once my beginner ideal scope arrives. Not sure how the scope works though and I''m not sure if the light would be sufficient to use in the store.

Another slight change in plans, apparently my girlfriend is set on getting 1.85ct or better. She saw a friend''s ring recently and told me that 1.60ct looked too small and that she would want something 1.85ct or better. Apparently when she was growing up she wanted 2.30ct. When she was growing up??? Who thinks about that type of thing. I used to think of girls, basketball, football and occasionally stocks. But I have to say that knowing I can go with G, H or hopefully I has eased the pain. I''m really excited!