shape
carat
color
clarity

How come cutter information is not availble to consumers?

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,979
If cut is the most important, should cutter's information be available? I really want to know who crafted my diamond. Some wholesalers even list the country of origin, but never cutter (except for branded diamond like solasfera).
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,049
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

The majority of people couldn't care less.

If you do, there are plenty of places that will tell you. Just like any other consumer product, different vendors will sell you different "flavors"
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
4,775
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

flyingpig|1447145932|3947643 said:
If cut is the most important, should cutter's information be available? I really want to know who crafted my diamond. Some wholesalers even list the country of origin, but never cutter (except for branded diamond like solasfera).


Yoram is a cutter that is referenced here often and a member who posts. There are several vendors who sell his diamonds. DBL, GOG, Erika Winters I think uses his French Cuts. There is a great thread on here where Dancing Fire had a beautiful diamond cut by him.

Dancing Fire's Thread of his diamond from the rough to completion

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-rough-for-my-octavia-pics.203024/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-rough-for-my-octavia-pics.203024/[/URL]

The setting

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-30ct-octavia-on-a-gelin-abaci-tension-setting.210548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-30ct-octavia-on-a-gelin-abaci-tension-setting.210548/[/URL]
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Most cutting is a factory operation and it's a team activity. The brunter is not the same as the sawyer who is not the same as the polisher and so on. It's like identifying who made your car. Why aren't brands more popular, like they are with cars? They're getting that way. Most of the dealers here has a house brand and there are some major national players like Hearts on Fire and Forevermark as well as long time brands like Kaplan or Tiffany. The pressure on this is coming more from the dealer side than the consumer side but that seems to be the general trend.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

If I'm not mistaken, unless it is a branded cut, most diamonds are cut in cutting houses where it passes through too many hands to know who cut what.
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

An excellent question and this is precisely why I have went down the route of Crafted By Infinity. This is EXACTLY what they do, right from initial sourcing, detailed planning and then the crafting process. They are now doing Cut To Order diamonds in larger sizes and this gives added confidence to the purchaser that Crafted By Infinity are in control of the entire process.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,979
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Thank you for your replies. I said "cutter" too broadly and incorrectly.
What I meant was that I am interested in knowing the name of factory or company that crafts (saw, cut, polish, inspect) my diamond. Or even their physical location.

No.. I am not interested in which specific individuals made the engine in my car. What I know is, it is made by employees at Honda. For me, that is sufficient.

I can find out of which country my diamond is from, the company/lab who grades it, the dealer who lists, mounts, inspect diamond before shipping, and the name/company where the appraisal is from. But in regard to craftmen/women who turn a stone into beauty, information is lacking.

Diamond industry uses every single information to market their products. In Canada, many promote how "arctic" and "icy" canadian diamonds are. How dumb.... It is surprising that not many companies try to make stories out of "craftmenship", especially when they market $10000 plus products. I am aware of there are branded diamond out there, but they contribute to very small percentage.

My intention of this post is that diamond crafters deserve more spotlight than it is getting now. After all, we are interested labs that grade craftmenship
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Check out Crafted by Infinity. A Cut Above by Whiteflash. TrueHearts by James Allen. Hearts on Fire. Forevermark. Tiffany. Blue Nile Signature. Brian Gavin Signature. I"m not deliberately omitting anyone here, most of the big diamond houses have a brand that does exactly what you're asking for.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

denverappraiser|1447201639|3948002 said:
Check out Crafted by Infinity. A Cut Above by Whiteflash. TrueHearts by James Allen. Hearts on Fire. Forevermark. Tiffany. Blue Nile Signature. Brian Gavin Signature. I"m not deliberately omitting anyone here, most of the big diamond houses have a brand that does exactly what you're asking for.

There is a deliberate lack of transparency in these brands as to where the diamonds are actually polished and by whom and whether it is done exclusively for them(rarely). It may even be that several of these competing 'brands' are sourced from the same cutting house in Antwerp. 99%+ of consumers aren't even aware that most of these 'brands' don't polish rough or ever own rough, rather they select from cutters inventory and then brand it based on their brand selection criteria.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,979
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

sharonyanddave|1447213861|3948079 said:
denverappraiser|1447201639|3948002 said:
Check out Crafted by Infinity. A Cut Above by Whiteflash. TrueHearts by James Allen. Hearts on Fire. Forevermark. Tiffany. Blue Nile Signature. Brian Gavin Signature. I"m not deliberately omitting anyone here, most of the big diamond houses have a brand that does exactly what you're asking for.

There is a deliberate lack of transparency in these brands as to where the diamonds are actually polished and by whom and whether it is done exclusively for them(rarely). It may even be that several of these competing 'brands' are sourced from the same cutting house in Antwerp. 99%+ of consumers aren't even aware that most of these 'brands' don't polish rough or ever own rough, rather they select from cutters inventory and then brand it based on their brand selection criteria.

Thank you denverappraiser. I did further reading, and whiteflash clearly states that ACA is "crafted by master diamond cutters in Antwerp Belgium to Whiteflash specifications". Regarding James Allen, I am unable to find such information; maybe I need to do more digging.

Thank you sharonyanddave for insight. Those are some of points that I was curious about.
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Hi Flyingpig

99%+ of diamonds are anonymously produced in assembly-line situations that there no telling who cut the diamond.

I for sure can tell you it was not a man but a lady who inspected the rough crystal of my Crafted By Infinity (CBI) and the stone was crafted at CBI Antwerp where all CBI diamonds are sourced, hand picked and cut under the one roof by the same people time and time again.

Anything that does not meet the standard of CBI gets re-sold back on the Antwerp market.

Have a look why I love Mercedes AMG (Apart from Lewis Hamilton and the size of those diamond earrings). Here is a picture of the engine and the name of the person who hand built my engine.


img_2605.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

flyingpig|1447218490|3948096 said:
sharonyanddave|1447213861|3948079 said:
denverappraiser|1447201639|3948002 said:
Check out Crafted by Infinity. A Cut Above by Whiteflash. TrueHearts by James Allen. Hearts on Fire. Forevermark. Tiffany. Blue Nile Signature. Brian Gavin Signature. I"m not deliberately omitting anyone here, most of the big diamond houses have a brand that does exactly what you're asking for.

There is a deliberate lack of transparency in these brands as to where the diamonds are actually polished and by whom and whether it is done exclusively for them(rarely). It may even be that several of these competing 'brands' are sourced from the same cutting house in Antwerp. 99%+ of consumers aren't even aware that most of these 'brands' don't polish rough or ever own rough, rather they select from cutters inventory and then brand it based on their brand selection criteria.

Thank you denverappraiser. I did further reading, and whiteflash clearly states that ACA is "crafted by master diamond cutters in Antwerp Belgium to Whiteflash specifications". Regarding James Allen, I am unable to find such information; maybe I need to do more digging.

Thank you sharonyanddave for insight. Those are some of points that I was curious about.

James Allen is owned by a big diamond supplier and they source stones from many sources in different locations in the world. A lot of their inventory is not in the US. These are virtual listings for stones they can access but reside with cutting factories. My stone was also cut by Yoram, but I assume he has others working for him and that it doesn't mean he was the only one who touched my stone. He is only known here because he is a member of the forum. A brand may occasionally be represented by a particular cutter, but that usually means they have a factory and others doing much of the work. Same with a brand like Leon Mege. He has others making most of the rings.

When you buy a designer dress, you don't really pursue knowing the specific factory where it was made, so this would make no difference to me. What is important about a diamond is that it has been bought to fit the specifications of the brand selling it (and some may buy from multiple sources). I can trust the standards of certain brands.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients. In that sense, cars may not be the best analogy. Maybe shoes or phones would be better examples. Iphones aren't made by Apple. They aren't even all made by the same place. It probably is possible to figure out which factory made yours, but it's far from easy. Does it matter? For most people no. That's why they don't promote it. Apple provided the specs, some quality control, and they provide the marketing channel. That seems to be what buyers want.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

denverappraiser|1447251872|3948170 said:
It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients. In that sense, cars may not be the best analogy. Maybe shoes or phones would be better examples. Iphones aren't made by Apple. They aren't even all made by the same place. It probably is possible to figure out which factory made yours, but it's far from easy. Does it matter? For most people no. That's why they don't promote it. Apple provided the specs, some quality control, and they provide the marketing channel. That seems to be what buyers want.

I may be wrong but I think the issue is the transparency. I suspect most major vendors here don't even provide any specs for the cutting houses. They just browse the available inventory and order them in. As others have mentioned a lot of vendors here share the same sources for diamonds. Most buyers are mis-lead to believe that certain duamond brands are exclusive to certain vendors which is not true at all. If I knew what I knew now, I would have purchased from a different vendor
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,769
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

denverappraiser|1447251872|3948170 said:
It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients. In that sense, cars may not be the best analogy. Maybe shoes or phones would be better examples. Iphones aren't made by Apple. They aren't even all made by the same place. It probably is possible to figure out which factory made yours, but it's far from easy. Does it matter? For most people no. That's why they don't promote it. Apple provided the specs, some quality control, and they provide the marketing channel. That seems to be what buyers want.
I think this is a pretty good analogy. I would add to the highlighted statement that Apple also provides the consumer with detailed specifications and qualifications for their brand (there are other smart phones out there), and they provide various benefits.

Consumers today do expect a high level of transparency. Some diamond brands offer better benefit packages than others, and some are much more transparent about the exact qualifications of the brand. This gives consumers confidence in the consistency of the product quality and a way to independently verify if their purchase ticks off all the boxes. Other brands are vague about exactly what quality requirements their signature product has to meet in order to have their label on it.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Texas Leaguer|1447260421|3948224 said:
denverappraiser|1447251872|3948170 said:
It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients. In that sense, cars may not be the best analogy. Maybe shoes or phones would be better examples. Iphones aren't made by Apple. They aren't even all made by the same place. It probably is possible to figure out which factory made yours, but it's far from easy. Does it matter? For most people no. That's why they don't promote it. Apple provided the specs, some quality control, and they provide the marketing channel. That seems to be what buyers want.
I think this is a pretty good analogy. I would add to the highlighted statement that Apple also provides the consumer with detailed specifications and qualifications for their brand (there are other smart phones out there), and they provide various benefits.

Consumers today do expect a high level of transparency. Some diamond brands offer better benefit packages than others, and some are much more transparent about the exact qualifications of the brand. This gives consumers confidence in the consistency of the product quality and a way to independently verify if their purchase ticks off all the boxes. Other brands are vague about exactly what quality requirements their signature product has to meet in order to have their label on it.

There's a difference between providing cutters with specifications and selecting based on specifications. I can't simply walk into Apple and purhase all their silver products and rebrand them my own then tell potential clients they were designed according to my specifications.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,769
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

DiamondTo|1447260766|3948231 said:
Texas Leaguer|1447260421|3948224 said:
denverappraiser|1447251872|3948170 said:
It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients. In that sense, cars may not be the best analogy. Maybe shoes or phones would be better examples. Iphones aren't made by Apple. They aren't even all made by the same place. It probably is possible to figure out which factory made yours, but it's far from easy. Does it matter? For most people no. That's why they don't promote it. Apple provided the specs, some quality control, and they provide the marketing channel. That seems to be what buyers want.
I think this is a pretty good analogy. I would add to the highlighted statement that Apple also provides the consumer with detailed specifications and qualifications for their brand (there are other smart phones out there), and they provide various benefits.

Consumers today do expect a high level of transparency. Some diamond brands offer better benefit packages than others, and some are much more transparent about the exact qualifications of the brand. This gives consumers confidence in the consistency of the product quality and a way to independently verify if their purchase ticks off all the boxes. Other brands are vague about exactly what quality requirements their signature product has to meet in order to have their label on it.

There's a difference between providing cutters with specifications and selecting based on specifications. I can't simply walk into Apple and purhase all their silver products and rebrand them my own then tell potential clients they were designed according to my specifications.
That's a good point. But to some extent the analogy to Apple falters because of the intellectual property aspects of what they produce. If we look more narrowly at branded diamonds (non-patented cuts), the differences revolve around quality specifications, pricing and benefits, and the reputation of the brand. In this sense, one could potentially buy them on the open market and re-brand and re-sell them. But you would have to find some additonal value to add in order for your marketing campaign to be successful.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

I will just say from personal experience that brand consistency means a lot. For example, when I look at Whiteflash ACAs, I don't even need to look at the AGS report. I know they have tight parameters for their brand and I'd take just about any ACA with the color, clarity, and size I wanted. The same can be said for a few other vendors, but I absolutely do not find that to be true of some of the big vendors with mostly virtual inventories who carry a few signature or supposedly H&A stones. After being here for almost 10 years, I have confidence that I can pick a great diamond without the brand, but honestly, things like 100% trade in value is something I need at times and that is not usually offered by the lowest cost vendors.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

diamondseeker2006|1447268031|3948283 said:
I will just say from personal experience that brand consistency means a lot. For example, when I look at Whiteflash ACAs, I don't even need to look at the AGS report. I know they have tight parameters for their brand and I'd take just about any ACA with the color, clarity, and size I wanted. The same can be said for a few other vendors, but I absolutely do not find that to be true of some of the big vendors with mostly virtual inventories who carry a few signature or supposedly H&A stones. After being here for almost 10 years, I have confidence that I can pick a great diamond without the brand, but honestly, things like 100% trade in value is something I need at times and that is not usually offered by the lowest cost vendors.


Honestly I don't see the consistency in the ACA branding after inspecting their aset images for individual diamonds. Perhaps your consistency only applies to color, clarity, and size
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Ok, the Apple example has some issues because of patent type topics. How about Nike? Mostly they’re not made by Nike employees after all, and the brand participation is about the same as what we’re talking about. For that matter, how about Starbucks? They sort of generically say that the beans are grown in Guatamala or wherever, but you’d be hard pressed to zoom in on a specific farm, much less a specific farmer.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

denverappraiser|1447270074|3948299 said:
Ok, the Apple example has some issues because of patent type topics. How about Nike? Mostly they’re not made by Nike employees after all, and the brand participation is about the same as what we’re talking about. For that matter, how about Starbucks? They sort of generically say that the beans are grown in Guatamala or wherever, but you’d be hard pressed to zoom in on a specific farm, much less a specific farmer.

This has nothing to do with patents.

If Nike provided the specs to a factory to make shoes, It is not the same as them browsing factories looking for shoes to sell.

I can get a custom suit made to my specs. Or I can go to the mall and buy a suit which fits. The end result may look the same but the process is not.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,769
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

DiamondTo|1447270559|3948305 said:
denverappraiser|1447270074|3948299 said:
Ok, the Apple example has some issues because of patent type topics. How about Nike? Mostly they’re not made by Nike employees after all, and the brand participation is about the same as what we’re talking about. For that matter, how about Starbucks? They sort of generically say that the beans are grown in Guatamala or wherever, but you’d be hard pressed to zoom in on a specific farm, much less a specific farmer.

This has nothing to do with patents.

If Nike provided the specs to a factory to make shoes, It is not the same as them browsing factories looking for shoes to sell.

I can get a custom suit made to my specs. Or I can go to the mall and buy a suit which fits. The end result may look the same but the process is not.
I guess that is the bottom line. As others have noted the process is variable. Some merchants have all or part of their inventories cut to specifications. Others just shop the market. Some do both to variable degrees. A merchant may strategically want to have redundant sources so that they do not have all their eggs in one production basket. Or they may not be able to get the entire mix that they need from one source.

The idea of full transparency has to be seen in the context of what is reasonable and necessary. For instance, there are legitimate reasons why merchants would not disclose the identities of their suppliers. Not for reasons of withholding that information from the consumer market, but primarily to keep their sources confidential for competitive reasons. Further, as someone mentioned, that level of detail is not seen as particularly relevant to most consumers.
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
926
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

A fairly high percentage of stones came out of the ground long ago and have been cut and recut several times. The exact percentage depends on the shape and specs of the stones you're looking at.

I don't think jewelers in general want people to know that--and they don't want people to know that the correct answer is often "we don't know who cut it." The branded stones of course they can tell you about their recent history at least.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Texas Leaguer|1447272807|3948326 said:
DiamondTo|1447270559|3948305 said:
denverappraiser|1447270074|3948299 said:
Ok, the Apple example has some issues because of patent type topics. How about Nike? Mostly they’re not made by Nike employees after all, and the brand participation is about the same as what we’re talking about. For that matter, how about Starbucks? They sort of generically say that the beans are grown in Guatamala or wherever, but you’d be hard pressed to zoom in on a specific farm, much less a specific farmer.

This has nothing to do with patents.

If Nike provided the specs to a factory to make shoes, It is not the same as them browsing factories looking for shoes to sell.

I can get a custom suit made to my specs. Or I can go to the mall and buy a suit which fits. The end result may look the same but the process is not.
I guess that is the bottom line. As others have noted the process is variable. Some merchants have all or part of their inventories cut to specifications. Others just shop the market. Some do both to variable degrees. A merchant may strategically want to have redundant sources so that they do not have all their eggs in one production basket. Or they may not be able to get the entire mix that they need from one source.

The idea of full transparency has to be seen in the context of what is reasonable and necessary. For instance, there are legitimate reasons why merchants would not disclose the identities of their suppliers. Not for reasons of withholding that information from the consumer market, but primarily to keep their sources confidential for competitive reasons. Further, as someone mentioned, that level of detail is not seen as particularly relevant to most consumers.

The detail is relevant to all consumers if a vendor claims that the diamonds were cut to their specifications.
 

DiamondTo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
40
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

ChristineRose|1447272853|3948327 said:
A fairly high percentage of stones came out of the ground long ago and have been cut and recut several times. The exact percentage depends on the shape and specs of the stones you're looking at.

I don't think jewelers in general want people to know that--and they don't want people to know that the correct answer is often "we don't know who cut it." The branded stones of course they can tell you about their recent history at least.

I know of only one branded stone which provides any type of history
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

I see no reason why the vendor should not be allowed to keep their sources confidential if they are able to prove that the diamonds are consistently cut to the specification that they tout.

Back to the car example: although the car manufacturers list the % of parts that are sourced from other countries, they do not tell you which companies were sub-contracted to make those parts even though they are made to their specification.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,741
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Another aspect- a skilled cutter can copy another design and produce a stone which is virtually identical to the stone they are copying.

Now, even given that fact, there are consumers that are really interested in knowing where the diamond was cut- and by whom. There is a real value to that.
But the reality is that there is no single "best" cutter in the world- and if a highly skilled cutter wanted to copy Paul, or Yoram, they could do it.
Once the two stones are polished they will be virtually identical.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,769
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

DiamondTo|1447273103|3948329 said:
Texas Leaguer|1447272807|3948326 said:
DiamondTo|1447270559|3948305 said:
denverappraiser|1447270074|3948299 said:
Ok, the Apple example has some issues because of patent type topics. How about Nike? Mostly they’re not made by Nike employees after all, and the brand participation is about the same as what we’re talking about. For that matter, how about Starbucks? They sort of generically say that the beans are grown in Guatamala or wherever, but you’d be hard pressed to zoom in on a specific farm, much less a specific farmer.

This has nothing to do with patents.

If Nike provided the specs to a factory to make shoes, It is not the same as them browsing factories looking for shoes to sell.

I can get a custom suit made to my specs. Or I can go to the mall and buy a suit which fits. The end result may look the same but the process is not.
I guess that is the bottom line. As others have noted the process is variable. Some merchants have all or part of their inventories cut to specifications. Others just shop the market. Some do both to variable degrees. A merchant may strategically want to have redundant sources so that they do not have all their eggs in one production basket. Or they may not be able to get the entire mix that they need from one source.

The idea of full transparency has to be seen in the context of what is reasonable and necessary. For instance, there are legitimate reasons why merchants would not disclose the identities of their suppliers. Not for reasons of withholding that information from the consumer market, but primarily to keep their sources confidential for competitive reasons. Further, as someone mentioned, that level of detail is not seen as particularly relevant to most consumers.

The detail is relevant to all consumers if a vendor claims that the diamonds were cut to their specifications.
Do you mean custom cut to customer's specifications? Or cut to the specifications of the brand? If the latter then I don't see how it matters to the customer, provided those specifications are transparent and verifiable.
On the other hand, if the customer is commissioning a custom cut diamond, then expectations should be set in advance what exactly that entails in terms of documentation. For instance, Yoram has done custom cutting for customers and even provided progress reports and documentation along the way on this forum. It is possible to get this service, but there are very, very few are providing it.
Producing a diamond cut to a certain set of specs is really a different proposition and the exact process may vary. For instance, it could involve finding a starter stone and recutting. It could involve having it cut through a normal production process where, as Niel described, it will go through several hands on a busy cutting floor where each step will be done by a different specialist.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,979
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Wow, I am amazed with the sheer amount of information listed here. Thank you everyone.

There are many analogies made here and there. I would not comment on all. In general, the amount and type information I require when buying a product are different depending on product category and price. For a quick example, for Honda Civic, I don’t care who made the engine. But If I am buying a Mercedes AMD black edition, I would like to know not only who hand crafted the engine, but also to the brands of brakes/transmission/stereo system, and where/how leather lining is crafted. It just adds more personality and story to a $150,000 purchase. If I am buying a pair of diamond stud for $500, I do not expect to know details. But things are a bit different for a $10000 engagement ring. Every bit of information and detail counts. I just bought a ring from James Allen. It was a very pleasant experience; I have nothing but positive things to say about the company. My ring was inspected and appraised by two different individuals before shipping. It is their attempt to make the ring personal and special. How about adding some additional information regarding where the diamond was craft? A simple statement like “Masterfully Crafted in Antwerp, Belgium” would have been nice. It does not cost a cent; it does not hurt anyone or business. While being cheesy, it still gives consumers additional information. I think it is a good marketing tool for companies. After all, some people BUY Tiffany’s tradition and heritage. I am sure there are people who BUY craftsmanship information.

Another example louis vuitton. All their products are according to specification, but can be made in france, usa or spain. Some people dont care while others do. They dont expect to know who stitched their bags. But rough geological location of where their bags are made is important to many. They simply would like to know.

I really appreciate a company like WF. Is every ACA ORDERED and CRAFTED according to WF specification? Or does WF merely SELECT diamonds according to specification? Or both? I don’t know, and I don’t mind either way. At least, WF clearly states where ACA is crafted, and is according to their strict specification regardless how it was sourced or ordered. That’s additional information that WF provides that some of its competitors don’t. For me, that’s sufficient, at this point. Or a company like GOG. I have watched ALL of Jonathan’s youtube videos. He clearly states that GOG brings in diamonds from suppliers, inspect, test, and HAND-SELECT good ones for their inventory. Of course, they do other services as well. That’s very very transparent.

I don’t mind if companies pick and select diamonds from common virtual inventories, and re-brand them under their companies’ name. This practice is everywhere in other industries; electronics, energy, fashion, auto.. etc.. Transparency, sourcing, and re-branding (while being related) were not the point of my initial post. As a consumer, I was just curious about where my diamond was crafted, and listing such information (detailed or not) can be beneficial to both consumers and companies

Thank you reading.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

denverappraiser|1447251872|3948170 said:
It's correct that the diamond brands usually don't own the factories nor are they only customers there. The cutting houses tend to be large operations (20,000 employee sorts of places) and they cater to lots of clients.

But when it comes to H&A like Whiteflash ACA, BGD Signature, James Allen Truehearts, and I suspect two other pricescope H&A vendors it is a limited number of factories in Antwerp and a smaller specialized production that is being sourced from the same places.

It makes you wonder what these 'brands' are really worth if other competitors can easily get a hold of the same inventory. The 'brand' may be worth not much more than their customer policies and the stringency and consistancy of their selection criteria. That is not easy for a consumer to realize with different photographic setups for H&A, ASET and all the "Marketing Hype" that goes on here.

Some of the above is educated speculation and I wouldn't know any of this save for one Pricescope vendor who was willing to be more forthcoming and divulge some of the "industry secrets".
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top