How can a consumer select a fancy shape?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/18/2010 10:21:03 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/18/2010 9:50:09 AM
Author: ChazzB
Paul


I really appreciate your reply. I have started another thread with my request but I did want to add something here about getting more info on stones from some sites. Now I have to say I did look on WF and GOG to see if they had any stones in my criteria and budget and they didn''t. My stone of choice is an oval and they are harder to find I think. GOG had almost none in their list.


I got a reply back from one of my two above vendors and here is their reply to my request for a ASET or Idealscope pic.


Unfortunately we are not able to provide IdealScope reports for our diamonds. This is primarily because the majority of the vault locations where we store our diamonds do not have these machines on site, but also because we do not believe that the majority of our customers would be able to properly interpret these kinds of reports. A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)


Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers.


I wonder if the person reponding to me noticed my stone was an oval. I DID have that info in my e-mail to him. Maybe I should roll the dice on one of these stones and then try to judge its brilliance and fire by eye, or maybe get a independent appraisal of the stone, and send it back if not happy?


Thanks again for this forum and the wealth of knowledge here



Chazz

Hmmm. That’s a boilerplate answer for folks asking for a Brilliancescope report. It’s a reasonable answer for that, but they’re answering the wrong question. ASET and Idealscope have nothing to calibrate nor does it result in any sort of analysis. It''s just data. GIA does not offer any sort of cut grade on ovals (AGS does, but the market presence is so low that it’s effectively irrelevant. You’ld be hard pressed to find an AGSL graded oval even if that was your only spec). I do agree with them that interpretation of the data can be tricky and it’s often a problem that people will draw invalid conclusions and I can certainly imagine a dealer deciding that it’s not worth opening the can ‘o worms by providing it. It’s also worth noting that many dealers are selling diamonds that are in the possession of someone else and so their ability to provide images and additional information is dependent on that 3rd party, who may not have the tools and/or the skills or may just be unwilling to do the extra work for ‘free’. I suspect this is the root of the resistance.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Great response Neil!

Taking an ideal-scope pic is not hard and the set up is less than $100. At the great risk of being accused of self promotion (I turn over about $3 billion a year in ideal-scope sales) - this 40 second video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SfK5Nt3oXw&feature=related shows how easy a vendor (who is not prepared to do a professional setup) can take an ideal-scope pic. ASET is a bit more fiddly, but still easy.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 4/18/2010 9:11:07 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/18/2010 10:21:03 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/18/2010 9:50:09 AM
Author: ChazzB
Paul


I really appreciate your reply. I have started another thread with my request but I did want to add something here about getting more info on stones from some sites. Now I have to say I did look on WF and GOG to see if they had any stones in my criteria and budget and they didn''t. My stone of choice is an oval and they are harder to find I think. GOG had almost none in their list.


I got a reply back from one of my two above vendors and here is their reply to my request for a ASET or Idealscope pic.


Unfortunately we are not able to provide IdealScope reports for our diamonds. This is primarily because the majority of the vault locations where we store our diamonds do not have these machines on site, but also because we do not believe that the majority of our customers would be able to properly interpret these kinds of reports. A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)


Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers.


I wonder if the person reponding to me noticed my stone was an oval. I DID have that info in my e-mail to him. Maybe I should roll the dice on one of these stones and then try to judge its brilliance and fire by eye, or maybe get a independent appraisal of the stone, and send it back if not happy?


Thanks again for this forum and the wealth of knowledge here



Chazz

Hmmm. That’s a boilerplate answer for folks asking for a Brilliancescope report. It’s a reasonable answer for that, but they’re answering the wrong question. ASET and Idealscope have nothing to calibrate nor does it result in any sort of analysis. It''s just data. GIA does not offer any sort of cut grade on ovals (AGS does, but the market presence is so low that it’s effectively irrelevant. You’ld be hard pressed to find an AGSL graded oval even if that was your only spec). I do agree with them that interpretation of the data can be tricky and it’s often a problem that people will draw invalid conclusions and I can certainly imagine a dealer deciding that it’s not worth opening the can ‘o worms by providing it. It’s also worth noting that many dealers are selling diamonds that are in the possession of someone else and so their ability to provide images and additional information is dependent on that 3rd party, who may not have the tools and/or the skills or may just be unwilling to do the extra work for ‘free’. I suspect this is the root of the resistance.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Great response Neil!

Taking an ideal-scope pic is not hard and the set up is less than $100. At the great risk of being accused of self promotion (I turn over about $3 billion a year in ideal-scope sales) - this 40 second video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SfK5Nt3oXw&feature=related shows how easy a vendor (who is not prepared to do a professional setup) can take an ideal-scope pic. ASET is a bit more fiddly, but still easy.

 

[denverappraiser]

Not all dollars are created equal.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/19/2010 11:44:57 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Not all dollars are created equal.

I see you and raise you Neil (this was emailed to me yesterday from my other store - they had it in their till - it is worth about $

 

[denverappraiser]

That was then (200, this is now. That’s nowhere near $8 anymore. It’s worth more as kindling than as currency now. I still like my picture better though, that guy looks so HAPPY about being a millionaire.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver