shape
carat
color
clarity

how accurate are D&J rare gems photos

deskjockey

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PrecisionGem|1452009976|3971019 said:
But a hand shot would have the same issues with the light source. The average red type garnet (Rhodolite, Pyrope etc) will always be more red when photographed or viewed in incandescent light. With CFL bulbs these stones close up and get muddy. So on the back of a hand or on a white paper makes no difference. The color is a function of the light source.

I think for me what hand shots do is allow me to "correct" the color or interpret it more easily. Obviously skin tones vary, but when I see a hand shot I can better distinguish how the light is affecting the overall picture. The last stone I bought, I got handshots with it and several other stones. I was able to "correct" the photo a bit for skin tone (I got three handshot pics, and the lighting or white balance was a little off between them. Correcting them to match each other made it much clearer which was the best stone!). It made it much easier to see the differences between the stones and choose the best one for me.

Either way, different things work for different vendors :) In your case, I probably wouldn't bother asking because the photos are so clear and well done, and I've seen so many pictures of stones people bought from you alongside your original pictures, so I think it's a bit easier to judge what I'm seeing. :)
 

PrecisionGem

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I think most of the people in the US who are cutting and selling stones, are really doing it for the fun of it, and we are addicted to the rough. After everything is factored it, travel expenses, camera equipment, rough, cutting equipment etc... And all the time involved with cutting, travel, book keeping, website development, driving to the post office, this may end up being a minimum wage or less activity. There are only a small handful of people who are actually doing this as a main source of revenue, and I don't know how really. So taking extra pictures really starts to push the time you can justify for the sale.
Some of the overseas dealers, where they have help they can pay pennies per hour, then extra pictures are a different story.
 

marymm

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For me, if I am seriously interested in a stone, rather than requesting additional pics and/or videos, which may or may not address any concerns I may have, sometimes it is worth buying the stone and having it sent to me, so I can examine it in person and under all of lighting conditions I am most frequently in... I know this won't work for buyers/sellers in different countries because of the shipping, insurance and tax issues involved, but for me, any stone over $500 I only buy from US sellers (or sellers with US return shipping addresses). In this case, D&J does have a very generous 30-day return policy.

I will also add that, over the last half-dozen years, I've requested additional photos/videos from reputable vendors (including vendors not on the PS CS-vendor list), and while some do acquiesce to my request, others have turned me down or the promised extra images are never sent/received.
 

theredspinel

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You're lucky you're in the US Mary.... I don't know of any vendors in the UK lol that can match the quality of the stones I see from abroad vendors.

Bottom line, if I'm spending a lot on a stone and I really want a hand pic...I just won't buy if i can't get that pic. I'm just suspecious by nature :naughty:

I'm glad there are so many options online.
 

digdeep

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I have bought from John and communication before purchasing as well as after shipping stones has been very, very good. And that includes gems I've returned to him. He is different from many facetors in that he's in the field and does his own digging when possible as well as participating in many gem shows...........an action person who has a large following of people in the gem/geology field. I only point this out because it's an apple and oranges comparison to other seller's who may stay closer to home selling/cutting gems.

I think people who get hung up on the 'hand' thing are thinking someone is just sitting in a store/house with nothing to do but take photo's---and the 'take a picture on your hand' seems to be a PS thing so I know there are potentially a LOT of requests that can really affect anyone's schedule. John has always provided accurate descriptions to me of the stones he sells, and I in turn, have done the same when I return a stone. A deposit is not unreasonable as a way of gauging the intentions of the potential buyer vs lookie loo's. And we've ALL been lookie loo's at times, haven't we? I've known him for a long time and even before the deposit his honest opinion is that you never know if you'll like a stone unless you see it in person--and he didn't do hand shots then either. So, when I buy from him I know that is the case......and I also know that he has a good return policy, as I've used that too!
 

Niel

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digdeep|1452017155|3971074 said:
I have bought from John and communication before purchasing as well as after shipping stones has been very, very good. And that includes gems I've returned to him. He is different from many facetors in that he's in the field and does his own digging when possible as well as participating in many gem shows...........an action person who has a large following of people in the gem/geology field. I only point this out because it's an apple and oranges comparison to other seller's who may stay closer to home selling/cutting gems.

I think people who get hung up on the 'hand' thing are thinking someone is just sitting in a store/house with nothing to do but take photo's---and the 'take a picture on your hand' seems to be a PS thing so I know there are potentially a LOT of requests that can really affect anyone's schedule. John has always provided accurate descriptions to me of the stones he sells, and I in turn, have done the same when I return a stone. A deposit is not unreasonable as a way of gauging the intentions of the potential buyer vs lookie loo's. And we've ALL been lookie loo's at times, haven't we? I've known him for a long time and even before the deposit his honest opinion is that you never know if you'll like a stone unless you see it in person--and he didn't do hand shots then either. So, when I buy from him I know that is the case......and I also know that he has a good return policy, as I've used that too!

Ok but then to my original question. Did you find his photos accurate?
 

digdeep

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Niel|1452019479|3971090 said:
digdeep|1452017155|3971074 said:
I have bought from John and communication before purchasing as well as after shipping stones has been very, very good. And that includes gems I've returned to him. He is different from many facetors in that he's in the field and does his own digging when possible as well as participating in many gem shows...........an action person who has a large following of people in the gem/geology field. I only point this out because it's an apple and oranges comparison to other seller's who may stay closer to home selling/cutting gems.

I think people who get hung up on the 'hand' thing are thinking someone is just sitting in a store/house with nothing to do but take photo's---and the 'take a picture on your hand' seems to be a PS thing so I know there are potentially a LOT of requests that can really affect anyone's schedule. John has always provided accurate descriptions to me of the stones he sells, and I in turn, have done the same when I return a stone. A deposit is not unreasonable as a way of gauging the intentions of the potential buyer vs lookie loo's. And we've ALL been lookie loo's at times, haven't we? I've known him for a long time and even before the deposit his honest opinion is that you never know if you'll like a stone unless you see it in person--and he didn't do hand shots then either. So, when I buy from him I know that is the case......and I also know that he has a good return policy, as I've used that too!

Ok but then to my original question. Did you find his photos accurate?

Niel, in all honesty I don't know that I can say photo's from any vendors are "accurate" all the time..... however I have never had a stone from John that was dramatically different in real life from the photo and/or description. It usually came down to things such as how 'deep' the color was, whether I liked the color/cut IRL, and whether the cut allowed light to move at the level I want. (I'm particularly picky about extinction/shadows). So, I know that's not really an answer, but across other vendors as with John, I've had wonderful surprises in stones I've kept and let down's in those I returned---either way I don't let that affect future purchase judgments. Overall, I'd say that if you ask specific questions and get the answers you want, then it's worth ordering the stone---and seeing if it fit's for you. If you are still hesitating, then I'd say you need to look elsewhere. I know that wasn't rocket science..............just my thoughts.
 

Arcadian

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Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.
 

Niel

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Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)
 

Arcadian

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Niel|1452028098|3971204 said:
Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)

Its kinda hard to reduce the risk. When I first got here I was all over the place. I think it just takes time though. And over that time, you find you get good and knowing what to look for, and what looks good to you. Just like with diamonds, colored stones have their own language. you know when a stone speaks to you even though the picture may not be all that great.

Trial and error, as long as the vendor has a good return policy, the best thing to do sometimes is to get the stones in hand and see them.
 

Niel

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Arcadian|1452028522|3971212 said:
Niel|1452028098|3971204 said:
Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)

Its kinda hard to reduce the risk. When I first got here I was all over the place. I think it just takes time though. And over that time, you find you get good and knowing what to look for, and what looks good to you. Just like with diamonds, colored stones have their own language. you know when a stone speaks to you even though the picture may not be all that great.

Trial and error, as long as the vendor has a good return policy, the best thing to do sometimes is to get the stones in hand and see them.

I don't know if I fully agree. There are vendors that enough people have used here to have a general consensus. "That'll be greyer in person" or "they make that more vivid than it is".

I wasn't sure if this was one of those vendors
 

theredspinel

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Arcadian|1452028522|3971212 said:
Niel|1452028098|3971204 said:
Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)

Its kinda hard to reduce the risk. When I first got here I was all over the place. I think it just takes time though. And over that time, you find you get good and knowing what to look for, and what looks good to you. Just like with diamonds, colored stones have their own language. you know when a stone speaks to you even though the picture may not be all that great.

Trial and error, as long as the vendor has a good return policy, the best thing to do sometimes is to get the stones in hand and see them.

See I can never accept this, doesn't matter how good I get at judging pics. Trail and error for me is just to costly to accept. It really is as simple as that for me, if I've gone through the hassle of buying a stone from overseas (vat charges, bank charges for conversion rate etc) then I'm not going to waste even more money in sending it back. And it's not even just about the money, my local post offices close way before I come home from work everyday... so its about rearranging my day trying to find a way home early from work to go and post the thing off!!!

Trail and error just isn't an acceptable way for me to shop.
 

digdeep

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Everyone has to decide where their limit's are..........I've had some bad experiences with purchases from oversea vendor's and the associated costs. What it taught me was that if I purchase a gem from outside the country........I'm probably stuck with it and that's part of my decision making process. We all have to make choices..........oh, speaking of choices, I forgot to buy a Powerball ticket. That would mean NOT having to think so much about gemstone purchases and associated costs.....LOL!!!! :dance: :lol:
 

PrecisionGem

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theredspinel|1452035808|3971294 said:
Arcadian|1452028522|3971212 said:
Niel|1452028098|3971204 said:
Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)

Its kinda hard to reduce the risk. When I first got here I was all over the place. I think it just takes time though. And over that time, you find you get good and knowing what to look for, and what looks good to you. Just like with diamonds, colored stones have their own language. you know when a stone speaks to you even though the picture may not be all that great.

Trial and error, as long as the vendor has a good return policy, the best thing to do sometimes is to get the stones in hand and see them.

See I can never accept this, doesn't matter how good I get at judging pics. Trail and error for me is just to costly to accept. It really is as simple as that for me, if I've gone through the hassle of buying a stone from overseas (vat charges, bank charges for conversion rate etc) then I'm not going to waste even more money in sending it back. And it's not even just about the money, my local post offices close way before I come home from work everyday... so its about rearranging my day trying to find a way home early from work to go and post the thing off!!!

Trail and error just isn't an acceptable way for me to shop.

I don't think just because a stone is sitting on the back of someone's hand, it immediately makes it more informative image. In most cases I think just the opposite. The image is always a function of the lighting, and also differences in individual monitors. What looks like the stone in the hand on my 27" iMac Retina display, on someone's else Asus monitor running Internet Explorer on Windows XP may look much different.
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452044317|3971370 said:
theredspinel|1452035808|3971294 said:
Arcadian|1452028522|3971212 said:
Niel|1452028098|3971204 said:
Arcadian|1452027909|3971201 said:
Anytime you buy a stone via an image, you're taking a chance on image accuracy. That said there are some that I've bought and they were spot on, some, not so much. I've purchased from D&J and did send the stone back, I didn't find the color to be accurate in my environment. They were pleasant about the transaction and frankly the way some people ask for stuff I'm not surprised they had to put this in writing.

I never require stones to be taken on hand because my hand is usually of a different color and well... its gonna look different! Gene's images are almost always spot on, plus he gives extremely good descriptions which I think helps in the process.

Color can be skewed by various factors, more often than not, the thing your actually looking at the stone on (phone, tablet, computer, generally none are calibrated in a favorable way).

I tend to rely on my screen and the description from the seller. If its not enough, I ask a few pointed questions, like how it looks in daylight, how they took the picture(s), etc. I rarely ask for a video but if they offer it, sure, I'll look. Of course I do ask here too, but If I'm still not sure I ask what their inspection period is because sometimes you just have to see it with your own two eyes.

I know its always a chance, I was just trying to reduce my risk my asking some other people that have already gone through the experience.

But I appreciate your comments. Thanks ! :)

Its kinda hard to reduce the risk. When I first got here I was all over the place. I think it just takes time though. And over that time, you find you get good and knowing what to look for, and what looks good to you. Just like with diamonds, colored stones have their own language. you know when a stone speaks to you even though the picture may not be all that great.

Trial and error, as long as the vendor has a good return policy, the best thing to do sometimes is to get the stones in hand and see them.

See I can never accept this, doesn't matter how good I get at judging pics. Trail and error for me is just to costly to accept. It really is as simple as that for me, if I've gone through the hassle of buying a stone from overseas (vat charges, bank charges for conversion rate etc) then I'm not going to waste even more money in sending it back. And it's not even just about the money, my local post offices close way before I come home from work everyday... so its about rearranging my day trying to find a way home early from work to go and post the thing off!!!

Trail and error just isn't an acceptable way for me to shop.

I don't think just because a stone is sitting on the back of someone's hand, it immediately makes it more informative image. In most cases I think just the opposite. The image is always a function of the lighting, and also differences in individual monitors. What looks like the stone in the hand on my 27" iMac Retina display, on someone's else Asus monitor running Internet Explorer on Windows XP may look much different.


But that can be said about any photo
 

Niel

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I decided to buy the stone to see it in person.
It was grey anyways, so if its too saturated in the photo- all the better
 

Arcadian

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Niel|1452045510|3971386 said:
I decided to buy the stone to see it in person.
It was grey anyways, so if its too saturated in the photo- all the better


Ok cool! I hope it meets expectation :)
 

digdeep

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I hope you like it, but either way, please let us know how this adventure ends up?
 

Niel

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digdeep|1452052730|3971470 said:
I hope you like it, but either way, please let us know how this adventure ends up?
Of course!
 
S

SparkliesLuver

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Looking forward to hearing about your experience, Niel.
 

Niel

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SparkliesLuver|1452527629|3974184 said:
Looking forward to hearing about your experience, Niel.

It came, it is going back. The photos where fine, the complete lack of any sparkle is why its going back. I wanted a dark stone like this... But I was hoping there would actually be some sparkle.

19036-spinel.jpg

img_20160111_095105.jpg

img_20160111_095137.jpg

img_20160111_095155_2.jpg
 

lovedogs

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Niel|1452529538|3974200 said:
SparkliesLuver|1452527629|3974184 said:
Looking forward to hearing about your experience, Niel.

It came, it is going back. The photos where fine, the complete lack of any sparkle is why its going back. I wanted a dark stone like this... But I was hoping there would actually be some sparkle.

I'm sorry Niel :( That is disappointing. But good to know the photos were fine in terms of accuracy. Are you looking for a grey-ish stone with sparkle? I can keep my eyes out for you :)
 

Niel

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lovedogs|1452530449|3974206 said:
Niel|1452529538|3974200 said:
SparkliesLuver|1452527629|3974184 said:
Looking forward to hearing about your experience, Niel.

It came, it is going back. The photos where fine, the complete lack of any sparkle is why its going back. I wanted a dark stone like this... But I was hoping there would actually be some sparkle.

I'm sorry Niel :( That is disappointing. But good to know the photos were fine in terms of accuracy. Are you looking for a grey-ish stone with sparkle? I can keep my eyes out for you :)

No I'm not "looking" exactly , but I saw it and thought "this would be very cool*

picsart_01-11-11.jpg
 

chrono

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It's going to be difficult to get much sparkle out of a dark + step cut stone. Dark means it absorbs light and step cuts mean fewer facets to flash back to the viewer.
 

Niel

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Chrono|1452530972|3974211 said:
It's going to be difficult to get much sparkle out of a dark + step cut stone. Dark means it absorbs light and step cuts mean fewer facets to flash back to the viewer.

Yes I know, wishful thinking. But really there isn't any at all, and I'm used to step cuts with at least some flash
 

chrono

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Niel|1452531059|3974212 said:
Yes I know, wishful thinking. But really there isn't any at all, and I'm used to step cuts with at least some flash

Were they dark or light stones?
 

Niel

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Chrono|1452531159|3974214 said:
Niel|1452531059|3974212 said:
Yes I know, wishful thinking. But really there isn't any at all, and I'm used to step cuts with at least some flash

Were they dark or light stones?


Chrono I hear what you're saying. As always im sure youre right.I'm saying I am aware the darker the stone the less light return, but because he described it as having a very good cut ocwas expecting to see that reflected in the stone, I did not. I am not expecting itnto perform as light stones, but I am expecting it not to look like a black spinel, either. I think I had fair expectations, it just didn't meet them. That's OK though
 

chrono

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I'm sorry the stone turned out to be disappointing. What gem type is it? It looks really dark.
 

Niel

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Chrono|1452532344|3974233 said:
I'm sorry the stone turned out to be disappointing. What gem type is it? It looks really dark.


It's a spinel. "Blue grey " , I was hoping for dark becuase I like grey, I even like black, so I wanted something dark but still have some life to it rather than an opaque black spinel. This one didn't have much life though
 
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