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how accurate are D&J rare gems photos

Niel

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Im interested in a stone from him, but he is charging me a deposit to get a back of the hand shot.

does anyone know if his photos are pretty accurate

http://www.djraregems.com/
 

theredspinel

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A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:
 

Niel

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theredspinel|1451948445|3970665 said:
A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:


Well,some won't even do it...so I don't know
 

marymm

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A couple years ago I bought several stones from D&J Rare Gems - as I recall, I bought several yellow zircons and several blue zircons (read: inexpensive) - and I would say the photos were accurate.

If I were going to buy a more expensive stone and was seriously interested in one of their gems based on an existing photo, first I would ask for their candid opinion of the gem to see if the verbal description lined up with the written and the photo - if still interested, I would be okay with paying a deposit for them to take additional photos for me.

FWIW, I do consider D&J trustworthy and reputable.
 

minousbijoux

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I agree with Marymm. Absolutely reputable and easy to deal with, though I might have thought differently if I was expected to provide a deposit just for a hand shot. My only comment is that like many other vendors, they take their photos with optimal lighting, so that in hand, they were darker than anticipated. I'd pay close attention to any descriptions they'll provide, particularly about the tone and saturation.
 

Niel

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minousbijoux|1451959380|3970753 said:
I agree with Marymm. Absolutely reputable and easy to deal with, though I might have thought differently if I was expected to provide a deposit just for a hand shot. My only comment is that like many other vendors, they take their photos with optimal lighting, so that in hand, they were darker than anticipated. I'd pay close attention to any descriptions they'll provide, particularly about the tone and saturation.

Thanks for the comments all!

It's funny I always felt his photos where not very "glamour shot " like.
 

Andelain

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theredspinel|1451948445|3970665 said:
A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:

From their site;

"11. Due to the recent increase in the frivilous requests for additional images and certificates we now require a $100 US non-refundable deposit prior to filling theserequests. The deposit will be applied towards the purchase price of the gem. "


$100! :errrr: :errrr:
 

theredspinel

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Andelain|1451969157|3970828 said:
theredspinel|1451948445|3970665 said:
A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:

From their site;

"11. Due to the recent increase in the frivilous requests for additional images and certificates we now require a $100 US non-refundable deposit prior to filling theserequests. The deposit will be applied towards the purchase price of the gem. "


$100! :errrr: :errrr:

That is absolutely ridiculous!!! So if you don't like the gem on the hand you'll lose your deposit anyway? That's just plain ridiculous.

They see the asking of an additional pic on a hand (which is the most 'real life' you can see a gem) as frivilous :shock:
How can they be in the business of selling gems and not understand that...
 

minousbijoux

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Fwiw, many vendors decline requests for hand shots - this particular vendor is by no means the only one. There are also well respected vendors that will not take videos of their stones. It appears these vendors have done their cost benefit analysis and found its not worth the added time to take additional photos/videos, as it must not increase the likelihood that the prospective customer will be happy with the stone.
 

theredspinel

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Wow I didn't know what. I don't think I'd be happy buying from a vendor that would decline that request for me mainly because it's online and they all have disclaimers stating all monitors are different so the colour we see might not be representative of the stone. That's like one of the main reasons people buy the stones in the first place, for the colour!

I don't want to go through the hassle of international returns (and buyer paying return shipping fees and insurance etc) so I'm one that does bug the vendor with loads of questions before buying and loads of these requests!

I guess some people are happy to buy from vendors like that but I just won't. Before I brought my pallasite peridot that I've brought, I was speaking with one vendor that (very politely and apologicitally) told me he wasn't going to take a pic of the actual stone because a) it's tiny and b) he had a parcel of 4 and the pic he had up was honestly truly representative of all the stones. I was gobsmacked at that...If he couldn't be bothered to take an actual pic of the tiny stone I was willing to pay hundreds of GBP for...why should I be bothered to buy from him.

I realise this is different to this thread because you do have at least 1 picture of the actual stone but in my eyes it's the same principle. It just seems like the vendor can't put that extra effort in and in this business of luxery items and paying hundreds and thousands for gems (not exactly necessities of life if you ask my brain, but not my heart) that extra effort should be made.
 

Niel

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Andelain|1451969157|3970828 said:
theredspinel|1451948445|3970665 said:
A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:

From their site;

"11. Due to the recent increase in the frivilous requests for additional images and certificates we now require a $100 US non-refundable deposit prior to filling theserequests. The deposit will be applied towards the purchase price of the gem. "


$100! :errrr: :errrr:


Well I guess it's good he only told me 20
 

PrecisionGem

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I would assume that many people photographing stones are using a more professional camera similar to what I use. I have a Nikon D750 with a Nikon 200mm macro lens. With this setup, to photograph a stone and get a decent depth of field, you need a really small aperture, so I normally shoot around f20 to f28, this means shutter speeds around 2 to 4 seconds under my normal lighting set up. If I were to do a hand shot with just normal room light the exposure time would be 15 seconds or more. There is no way I could hold the camera with one hand and balance the stone on the other, and hold it all still and in focus for 15 seconds.

So this would mean either a small point and shoot camera, or the iPhone would be needed. The quality of the photo is not as good, and the lighting again becomes non consistent. So the photos would always vary from day to day.

To me a hand shot is not very practical to take, and I really don't see the benefit. Many of the hand shoots I see people take and post here are useless, as the color balance is way off, or the pictures are so blurry you can't see anything. I think it's better to work in a controlled consistent manner.
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452003791|3970960 said:
I would assume that many people photographing stones are using a more professional camera similar to what I use. I have a Nikon D750 with a Nikon 200mm macro lens. With this setup, to photograph a stone and get a decent depth of field, you need a really small aperture, so I normally shoot around f20 to f28, this means shutter speeds around 2 to 4 seconds under my normal lighting set up. If I were to do a hand shot with just normal room light the exposure time would be 15 seconds or more. There is no way I could hold the camera with one hand and balance the stone on the other, and hold it all still and in focus for 15 seconds.

So this would mean either a small point and shoot camera, or the iPhone would be needed. The quality of the photo is not as good, and the lighting again becomes non consistent. So the photos would always vary from day to day.

To me a hand shot is not very practical to take, and I really don't see the benefit. Many of the hand shoots I see people take and post here are useless, as the color balance is way off, or the pictures are so blurry you can't see anything. I think it's better to work in a controlled consistent manner.

Cant you just use someone else's hand?

Also the problem I have is the backgrounds change depending on the stone. So clearly they are already either in different lighting or the camera isn't set up that well. If they're trying to "best represent" the stone.

I wish that they would include in the photos for a reference point. But that's asking a lot
 

theredspinel

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Or get someone else to take the picture. To be honest I'd much prefer a blurry hand shot over not because I don't just ask for hand shots for colour.

I really don't have an artistic eye and can't imagine anything without actually seeing it so I like seeing a gem just on a hand. Not necessarily on ring finger or anything but I just like seeing the gem (size) in comparison to the hand.

For my pallasite peridot, I actually drew out the shape of it on my finger (lol) to scale, to get a feel of its size... but it still just wasn't enough. So I asked for a hand shot and got a really blurry one but instantly I could imagine it on my hand now. I know that hand wasn't my hand but it's like preferring to see clothes modelled on actual humans rather then plastic ones.....

People like me that do crazy stuff like draw out the diameters of a particular stone and just stop short of colouring it in.....need hand shots!

Eta of the 3 stones I've brought thus far I've only asked for a hand shot once. The other 2 had loads of pics and I loved different things about them (one for being quite rare and I loved the video of the other). The hand shot for the pallasite peridot I just really needed a) because it was a lot of money that I'd not be happy wasting and b) so tiny I needed to see it in relation to a hand.

Eta 2: sorry niel if I'm derailing the thread!
 

deskjockey

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Andelain|1451969157|3970828 said:
theredspinel|1451948445|3970665 said:
A deposit to see the gem on the hand...?! That's a bit (or a lot) ridiculous right? :eh:

From their site;

"11. Due to the recent increase in the frivilous requests for additional images and certificates we now require a $100 US non-refundable deposit prior to filling theserequests. The deposit will be applied towards the purchase price of the gem. "


$100! :errrr: :errrr:

WOW.

That certainly makes me appreciate Dana and Rachelle so much more (seriously, she lined up several stones next to each other so I could see, and took more photos than I even asked for, and did it within a few hours of my email!). Damn.

My question is - if vendors get a lot of requests for this and it is such a pain to go re-photograph the gem later, why not just do it in the first place, when they initially photograph it? I imagine that would cut down a lot on frivolous requests (and returns when people order stones and don't get what they expect)
 

PrecisionGem

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Niel|1452004066|3970964 said:
PrecisionGem|1452003791|3970960 said:
I would assume that many people photographing stones are using a more professional camera similar to what I use. I have a Nikon D750 with a Nikon 200mm macro lens. With this setup, to photograph a stone and get a decent depth of field, you need a really small aperture, so I normally shoot around f20 to f28, this means shutter speeds around 2 to 4 seconds under my normal lighting set up. If I were to do a hand shot with just normal room light the exposure time would be 15 seconds or more. There is no way I could hold the camera with one hand and balance the stone on the other, and hold it all still and in focus for 15 seconds.

So this would mean either a small point and shoot camera, or the iPhone would be needed. The quality of the photo is not as good, and the lighting again becomes non consistent. So the photos would always vary from day to day.

To me a hand shot is not very practical to take, and I really don't see the benefit. Many of the hand shoots I see people take and post here are useless, as the color balance is way off, or the pictures are so blurry you can't see anything. I think it's better to work in a controlled consistent manner.

Cant you just use someone else's hand?

Also the problem I have is the backgrounds change depending on the stone. So clearly they are already either in different lighting or the camera isn't set up that well. If they're trying to "best represent" the stone.

I wish that they would include in the photos for a reference point. But that's asking a lot

Send me your hand and I'll use it!
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452006365|3970980 said:
Niel|1452004066|3970964 said:
PrecisionGem|1452003791|3970960 said:
I would assume that many people photographing stones are using a more professional camera similar to what I use. I have a Nikon D750 with a Nikon 200mm macro lens. With this setup, to photograph a stone and get a decent depth of field, you need a really small aperture, so I normally shoot around f20 to f28, this means shutter speeds around 2 to 4 seconds under my normal lighting set up. If I were to do a hand shot with just normal room light the exposure time would be 15 seconds or more. There is no way I could hold the camera with one hand and balance the stone on the other, and hold it all still and in focus for 15 seconds.

So this would mean either a small point and shoot camera, or the iPhone would be needed. The quality of the photo is not as good, and the lighting again becomes non consistent. So the photos would always vary from day to day.

To me a hand shot is not very practical to take, and I really don't see the benefit. Many of the hand shoots I see people take and post here are useless, as the color balance is way off, or the pictures are so blurry you can't see anything. I think it's better to work in a controlled consistent manner.

Cant you just use someone else's hand?

Also the problem I have is the backgrounds change depending on the stone. So clearly they are already either in different lighting or the camera isn't set up that well. If they're trying to "best represent" the stone.

I wish that they would include in the photos for a reference point. But that's asking a lot

Send me your hand and I'll use it!

Hard to find someone willing to help?
 

theredspinel

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PrecisionGem|1452006365|3970980 said:
Niel|1452004066|3970964 said:
PrecisionGem|1452003791|3970960 said:
I would assume that many people photographing stones are using a more professional camera similar to what I use. I have a Nikon D750 with a Nikon 200mm macro lens. With this setup, to photograph a stone and get a decent depth of field, you need a really small aperture, so I normally shoot around f20 to f28, this means shutter speeds around 2 to 4 seconds under my normal lighting set up. If I were to do a hand shot with just normal room light the exposure time would be 15 seconds or more. There is no way I could hold the camera with one hand and balance the stone on the other, and hold it all still and in focus for 15 seconds.

So this would mean either a small point and shoot camera, or the iPhone would be needed. The quality of the photo is not as good, and the lighting again becomes non consistent. So the photos would always vary from day to day.

To me a hand shot is not very practical to take, and I really don't see the benefit. Many of the hand shoots I see people take and post here are useless, as the color balance is way off, or the pictures are so blurry you can't see anything. I think it's better to work in a controlled consistent manner.

Cant you just use someone else's hand?

Also the problem I have is the backgrounds change depending on the stone. So clearly they are already either in different lighting or the camera isn't set up that well. If they're trying to "best represent" the stone.

I wish that they would include in the photos for a reference point. But that's asking a lot

Send me your hand and I'll use it!


Haha is that a hand modelling job offer for Niel? :naughty:
 

PrecisionGem

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There aren't any hand models out here where I live, and if there were, the cost would have to be added into the stones. I don't think anyone wants the prices of stones to go up even more.

To me, a stone sitting between some guys big hairy knuckles doesn't really tell you much of how it is going to look set in a ring and on your pretty hand.
 

theredspinel

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Just still like seeing it on an actual hand :D

And I don't think I should have to pay to see it lol. Especially a non refundable deposit. Just not very good customer care in my opinion.
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452007036|3970993 said:
There aren't any hand models out here where I live, and if there were, the cost would have to be added into the stones. I don't think anyone wants the prices of stones to go up even more.

To me, a stone sitting between some guys big hairy knuckles doesn't really tell you much of how it is going to look set in a ring and on your pretty hand.


Hand models?

I don't think anyone needs a hand model. I'd be happy with uncle Todd's hand.

Who's to say I don't have hairy knucks?

The issue is, a grey background is a photographers best friend. You can use a light box and present that stone in its best possible light. In an environment we may never gave that stone in. So something to judge the lighting environment is necessary. Particularly considering the people out of your country who are required to pay vat, shipping, and a ridiculous shipping back if they don't like it
 

Niel

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You know when you go look at paint at Lowes? They have that light box that shows natural, incandescent and some other lightbsourse and how paint looks in each of those. That plus a point of reference would really be helpful. But I know no one will do that. It's taking 3 pictures when you could only take one!

But a grey background that clearly chances stone to stone isn't actually a helpful want to buy stones.
 

PrecisionGem

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I do understand the issues and fears with buying from a photo. I try to buy as much of my rough as possible in person, but sometimes I end up dealing with someone in places Nigeria over email. Nigeria is not a place right now I'd like to be walking around in with a bunch of cash in my pockets. So I get typically get blurry pictures taken with a cell phone. (No hand shots) The stones are offered as a parcel, with Western Union as the payment method, the buyer pays the Western Union fees and shipping by FedEx which is crazy expensive. There is never an option for return as the stones would most likely be stolen once entering Nigeria again. And this isn't just a $300 stone, these purchases are always a parcel, and always thousands of dollars.

Actually I very seldom get asked for a hand shot.
 

deskjockey

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PrecisionGem|1452007036|3970993 said:
There aren't any hand models out here where I live, and if there were, the cost would have to be added into the stones. I don't think anyone wants the prices of stones to go up even more.

To me, a stone sitting between some guys big hairy knuckles doesn't really tell you much of how it is going to look set in a ring and on your pretty hand.

There's a guy on etsy who takes his own handshots on his hairy knuckles. I actually find it strangely appealing.

:oops:
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452009239|3971010 said:
I do understand the issues and fears with buying from a photo. I try to buy as much of my rough as possible in person, but sometimes I end up dealing with someone in places Nigeria over email. Nigeria is not a place right now I'd like to be walking around in with a bunch of cash in my pockets. So I get typically get blurry pictures taken with a cell phone. (No hand shots) The stones are offered as a parcel, with Western Union as the payment method, the buyer pays the Western Union fees and shipping by FedEx which is crazy expensive. There is never an option for return as the stones would most likely be stolen once entering Nigeria again. And this isn't just a $300 stone, these purchases are always a parcel, and always thousands of dollars.

Actually I very seldom get asked for a hand shot.

I can completely understand the fact you may have to do it too,but the difference is this is your trade. You've had years of judging stones and rough. We are not as well versed in the skill of buying stones. And where you may deal in these items, for buyers its a one time purchase and they do not have the same funds as someone who buys in large quantities
 

Niel

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deskjockey|1452009303|3971013 said:
PrecisionGem|1452007036|3970993 said:
There aren't any hand models out here where I live, and if there were, the cost would have to be added into the stones. I don't think anyone wants the prices of stones to go up even more.

To me, a stone sitting between some guys big hairy knuckles doesn't really tell you much of how it is going to look set in a ring and on your pretty hand.

There's a guy on etsy who takes his own handshots on his hairy knuckles. I actually find it strangely appealing.

:oops:


Yvorskyy (didni add the right amount of us?) Always posts pics from his hairy hand and I love them lol. Or, its escaping me now, but the person with tattoos
 

PrecisionGem

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Different types of lights in a set up would be nice, as the CFL bulbs certainly show a stone in a much different color than an incandescent bulb. A set up like this would be doable, bit each time the light source was changed, the color balance setting on the camera would need to be changed. The color balance is set on a camera by reading off a white or gray card. I take most of my pictures at night time, as I have a day time job. So the only light is from SOLUX bulbs, these are full spectrum white light. The same bulbs that art galleries use to light paintings since they show the true color. CFL bulb distort the color and could never be used in a museum or art gallery, yet now, most homes have them. Sometimes I do end up taking some shots during the daytime, and then a small amount of daylight is mixed in with the SOLUX light, and this can give the gray background a little different look.

But a hand shot would have the same issues with the light source. The average red type garnet (Rhodolite, Pyrope etc) will always be more red when photographed or viewed in incandescent light. With CFL bulbs these stones close up and get muddy. So on the back of a hand or on a white paper makes no difference. The color is a function of the light source.
 

PrecisionGem

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Niel|1452009682|3971015 said:
PrecisionGem|1452009239|3971010 said:
I do understand the issues and fears with buying from a photo. I try to buy as much of my rough as possible in person, but sometimes I end up dealing with someone in places Nigeria over email. Nigeria is not a place right now I'd like to be walking around in with a bunch of cash in my pockets. So I get typically get blurry pictures taken with a cell phone. (No hand shots) The stones are offered as a parcel, with Western Union as the payment method, the buyer pays the Western Union fees and shipping by FedEx which is crazy expensive. There is never an option for return as the stones would most likely be stolen once entering Nigeria again. And this isn't just a $300 stone, these purchases are always a parcel, and always thousands of dollars.

Actually I very seldom get asked for a hand shot.

I can completely understand the fact you may have to do it too,but the difference is this is your trade. You've had years of judging stones and rough. We are not as well versed in the skill of buying stones. And where you may deal in these items, for buyers its a one time purchase and they do not have the same funds as someone who buys in large quantities

You have made over 14,000 posts on here. I would say you are an expert at looking at stones online by now!
 

Niel

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PrecisionGem|1452010092|3971021 said:
Niel|1452009682|3971015 said:
PrecisionGem|1452009239|3971010 said:
I do understand the issues and fears with buying from a photo. I try to buy as much of my rough as possible in person, but sometimes I end up dealing with someone in places Nigeria over email. Nigeria is not a place right now I'd like to be walking around in with a bunch of cash in my pockets. So I get typically get blurry pictures taken with a cell phone. (No hand shots) The stones are offered as a parcel, with Western Union as the payment method, the buyer pays the Western Union fees and shipping by FedEx which is crazy expensive. There is never an option for return as the stones would most likely be stolen once entering Nigeria again. And this isn't just a $300 stone, these purchases are always a parcel, and always thousands of dollars.

Actually I very seldom get asked for a hand shot.

I can completely understand the fact you may have to do it too,but the difference is this is your trade. You've had years of judging stones and rough. We are not as well versed in the skill of buying stones. And where you may deal in these items, for buyers its a one time purchase and they do not have the same funds as someone who buys in large quantities

You have made over 14,000 posts on here. I would say you are an expert at looking at stones online by now!


The majority of those are regarding diamonds and settings. I'm very green when it comes to gemstones
 

theredspinel

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PrecisionGem|1452009976|3971019 said:
Different types of lights in a set up would be nice, as the CFL bulbs certainly show a stone in a much different color than an incandescent bulb. A set up like this would be doable, bit each time the light source was changed, the color balance setting on the camera would need to be changed. The color balance is set on a camera by reading off a white or gray card. I take most of my pictures at night time, as I have a day time job. So the only light is from SOLUX bulbs, these are full spectrum white light. The same bulbs that art galleries use to light paintings since they show the true color. CFL bulb distort the color and could never be used in a museum or art gallery, yet now, most homes have them. Sometimes I do end up taking some shots during the daytime, and then a small amount of daylight is mixed in with the SOLUX light, and this can give the gray background a little different look.

But a hand shot would have the same issues with the light source. The average red type garnet (Rhodolite, Pyrope etc) will always be more red when photographed or viewed in incandescent light. With CFL bulbs these stones close up and get muddy. So on the back of a hand or on a white paper makes no difference. The color is a function of the light source.

I still prefer a hand shot...

Normal daylight, hairy knuckles and iPhone pic. I love it. Because yes the stone might not look it's best but it would look how I'd be seeing it (in my possession) most of the time so I'd still rather know. Before I buy. And if I liked the rarety of the stone or the origin or something else unique about it I'd still buy it even after a rubbish hand pic, but I'm different right now in that I havnt brought a stone purely for the colour just yet.

I'm looking for a black opal (to purchase in a few months) and I'm desperate to see what it would look like under normal in a house, rainy grey day outside, type of 'lighting'. Does it still have its play of colour? See I have no idea, and I've tried googling and you tubing but I can't find one that's just shown without a light bulb over it. It's little things like that one simple handshot easily rectifies.
 
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