Hope the President does a good job for USA

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Red- Just a few comments- I think that perhaps M Flynn or Gates may know if Trump knew about the meeting.(Or hope HIcks) Cohen would just be a corroborating witness. He , Cohen, knows who knows what.

Now, here I agree with your article from the pastor. I don't think America is as polarized as we may sometimes think. Most people aren't paying attention to the everyday blast of news. As we have mentioned before the 24 hr media has something to do with it. And we have never before witnessed this kind of behavior that this administration brings. We have put a Vice Pres in jail,(Agnew), we have put an Attorney General in jail under Nixon, from the drunken calls his wife made to the media. We have survived. I do think this is worse, but I wait for the report, hoping, I admit, that Trump will be punished for wrongdoings.

Three states that voted for Trump are no longer in that camp. Wisconsin, Minnesota, and one other, (I forgot). We have some extreme views on here. I don't hear it in the outside world. I was more upset initially than I am now. I think we will come through. There are really good Republicans and Democrats who care more about America than parties.

With Respect,
Annette

 

[redwood66]

You are right and I don't see any of this in my daily life either. We will come through and it is good to hear someone else say it here. There are times I need to stay away from the internet.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

Three states that voted for Trump are no longer in that camp. Wisconsin, Minnesota, and one other, (I forgot). We have some extreme views on here.

With Respect,
Annette

Way, way left extremist. No conservatives would dare to post their political views here. They can't take the extreme left heat.

 

[AGBF]

Most people aren't paying attention to the everyday blast of news.

...​

We have put a Vice Pres in jail,(Agnew), we have put an Attorney General in jail under Nixon, from the drunken calls his wife made to the media.

...​

I do think this is worse, but I wait for the report, hoping, I admit, that Trump will be punished for wrongdoings.

I am much more alarmed than you are, Annette, that people are not paying attention to Russia controlling the president of the United States and, therefore, the Republican Congress that is sycophantic to him (something our forefathers never considered). I am your age and I remember Watergate vividly. In fact, I actually attended one of the Senate Watergate hearings in person and saw Senator Sam Irvin and all the principals in person. Like you, I think this is far worse, however. Nixon was not engaged in a conspiracy with a foreign power as Trump appears to be. As I am sure it will be proven Trump has been.
I doubt that Trump will be jailed for undermining the United States government. I highly doubt it. Like the big US banks saved during the bailout, he is, "too big to fail". However he is "punished", he will never be jailed. And that is true, even though he has committed treason.

I do not think my views are extreme. I am not out in the street burning things although I think the president committed treason and will get away with it and that my countrymen are ignoring it. I am not being violent. So how extreme am I?

Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

I do not think my views are extreme. I am not out in the street burning things although I think the president committed treason and will get away with it and that my countrymen are ignoring it. I am not being violent. So how extreme am I?

Deb

Very extreme by calling Trump a treasonist. Would you call HRC a treasonist had she won since she have so many connections with the Russians?.

 

[AGBF]

Very extreme by calling Trump a treasonist. Would you call HRC a treasonist had she won since she have so many connections with the Russians?.

Are you really going to pretend that you think when Trump is accused of "treason" he is merely accused of "having connections with Russians"?

I actually think you are trying to. I try to resist name calling here, but you make it very hard to resist the 't" word, Dancing Fire. You add a whole new meaning to word "disingenuous".

Deb

 

[redwood66]

Are you really going to pretend that you think when Trump is accused of "treason" he is merely accused of "having connections with Russians"?

I actually think you are trying to. I try to resist name calling here, but you make it very hard to resist the 't" word, Dancing Fire. You add a whole new meaning to word "disingenuous".

Deb

To be fair he has not been indicted, tried, or convicted of anything yet. Mueller and his team are the only ones who really know anything. The rest is speculation no matter how much anyone wants it to be different. I could think Hillary was guilty as the day is long but that did not lock her up now did it?

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * MOLLY- Is it possible that Trump has become a target of the Mueller investigation instead of a subject. If he is a target, does he have to be notified? If he is a target they can take this info against him directly to a grand jury, no? Then you don't need to question him at Muellers office.
Annette

Great questions, Annette! There actually is no federal statute or U.S. Supreme Court case that requires that a target be notified of the existence & nature of a federal Grand Jury investigation. But it's long been the policy of the U.S. Department of Justice, as a matter of fundamental fairness, to attach advisory warnings or a formal, cautionary letter to the subpoena summoning either a subject or a target before a Grand Jury. See sections 9-11.150 & 9-11.151 of this page from the U.S. Attorneys' Manual:
https://www.justice.gov/usam/usam-9-11000-grand-jury#9-11.150
And even if a target has not been subpoenaed to the Grand Jury or has not spontaneously asked to testify there, DoJ policy encourages giving notice, generally speaking but not in all cases, far enough in advance so that the target has "the opportunity to testify" before the Grand Jury is asked to vote on the matter. Section 9-11.153, on same page linked above.

Ken White, a former Ass't U.S. Attorney who's been a criminal defense lawyer in LA for the past 15 years or so & who also does a fair amount of 1st Amendment litigation (often pro bono), provided this informative, chatty (meaning no stuffy lawyer lingo) post -- What It Means That Trump Is "Only A Subject" -- in early April:
https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/04/what-it-means-that-trump-is-only-a-subject/
Hope this is the info you were hoping for

 

[MollyMalone]

P.S. I've really been enjoying All The President's Lawyers, which Ken White and Josh Baro (political commentator for Business Insider) have been presenting on the weekly NPR Radio program, Left, Right & Center since late May. It's both highly entertaining, if you have at least a somewhat irreverent sense of humor, & seriously educational on the law and legal ethics. This past week's segment was 'Pay With Cash' (Michael Cohen’s lawyer releases a tape. How big of a deal is it?), and you can find the links to all the segments by scrolling down this page:
https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/lrc-presents-all-the-presidents-lawyers/pay-with-cash?

Ken White's Twitter feed -- where he provides, e.g., "lawsplainers": tweets explaining some facet of law in the news -- is one of the only 2 I follow; this one from Thursday night made me chortle because Giuliani has been soooo off the rails
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1022654016038219778

 

[AGBF]

Get Pence first. I am afraid they will miss him and he will become president.

...​

My slogan will be: IMPEACH PENCE FIRST!

Do you want to get sober quickly? Read this!

Link...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/opinion/sunday/mike-pence-holy-terror.html

 

[Dancing Fire]

To be fair he has not been indicted, tried, or convicted of anything yet. Mueller and his team are the only ones who really know anything. The rest is speculation no matter how much anyone wants it to be different. I could think Hillary was guilty as the day is long but that did not lock her up now did it?

but to the far left Trump had commited treason.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

THANK-YOU MOLLY. yES, THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW. I often wonder how the answers to questions are right at your fingertips.

Deb--Yes, you are one of the people that I think of having views that are extremist. By extremist, I just mean far left or far right. Nothing to do with violence, just thoughts. You have declared yourself a socialist, and in support of what I'm saying, its not just your views on DT that I'm thinking of, but look how you bash banks because some got a bailout, which they paid back, with interest, and enabled this country to avoid a full blown depression. A Dem Pres. a Republican Fed chair and a Republican Treas Sec. pulled that off. I bless them every day.

I don't see you much different than those on the far right who get struck in one view of the world. Someone like Tekate holds a more balanced view and I bet even Calliecakes would be more moderate in things other than DT. I am not so invested in my views that I cannot change them occasionally. Perhaps our countrymen are changing and will leave moderates behind. Socialism is not where I want to go. Nor is identity politics which , of course comes under "Justice For All" in your book.

These , I see as your views. I think everyone should be able to express their views here. So, go ahead.
This may be my biggest and really only personal complaint about you. I don't get why you keep posting other peoples opinions, and not explaining in your own words what you think. The Washington Post and the New York times are great papers, but you can't use them as your opinions.

Annette

 

[AGBF]

Hi,

THANK-YOU MOLLY. yES, THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW. I often wonder how the answers to questions are right at your fingertips.

Deb--Yes, you are one of the people that I think of having views that are extremist. By extremist, I just mean far left or far right. Nothing to do with violence, just thoughts. You have declared yourself a socialist, and in support of what I'm saying, its not just your views on DT that I'm thinking of, but look how you bash banks because some got a bailout, which they paid back, with interest, and enabled this country to avoid a full blown depression. A Dem Pres. a Republican Fed chair and a Republican Treas Sec. pulled that off. I bless them every day.

I don't see you much different than those on the far right who get struck in one view of the world. Someone like Tekate holds a more balanced view and I bet even Calliecakes would be more moderate in things other than DT. I am not so invested in my views that I cannot change them occasionally. Perhaps our countrymen are changing and will leave moderates behind. Socialism is not where I want to go. Nor is identity politics which , of course comes under "Justice For All" in your book.

These , I see as your views. I think everyone should be able to express their views here. So, go ahead.
This may be my biggest and really only personal complaint about you. I don't get why you keep posting other peoples opinions, and not explaining in your own words what you think. The Washington Post and the New York times are great papers, but you can't use them as your opinions.

Annette

Annette-

On the one hand you complain that I quote sources like "The New York Times" rather than express my own opinions and that I do not express my own opinions!

Yet you started out your rant about me and "far left opinions" claiming to know many things I believe.

The things you think you know I believe are incorrect. I am not saying you are "way off base" and do not know me at all, but you absolutely have no right to summarize my world views in the small little boxes you did. If I have called my self a "socialist", which is possible, I do not even know what kind I am. Let me work that and also let me work on what a "fascist" is with ksinger. Don't assume you have the definition.

And when you say I do not explain in my own words what I think: read some of my long postings!

Deb/AGBF

 

[partgypsy]

Well Dancing Fire, it's not just "far left" and "extremist liberals" who feel what Trump has done is unforgivable and makes him undeserving of office, unless you think people like John OBrennan (former head of CIA) George Will, Newt Gingrich, Neil Cavuto, John McCain, Max Booth are "far left".

He is guilty of this federal crime
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
And most likely seditious conspiracy cy (18 U.S.C.§ 2384) is
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

For a seditious conspiracy charge to be effected, a crime need only be planned, it need not be actually attempted.

Trump publically (and apparently privately as well) asked for then sec of State emails, which are property of the US government, to be stolen and released. Trump's people both communicated and personally met with Russian agents to make this happen. Again, this federal crime is so serious, doesn't even have had to happen to be prosecuted, It need only be planned. Rick Gates, associate of Manafort, has already pled guilty to conspiracy against the United States.

Trump should have stuck to building casinos.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yup, It is legal for Dems. to break the law.
https://www.investors.com/politics/...-and-hillary-clintons-real-russian-collusion/

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * [Trump is] most likely [guilty of] seditious conspiracy cy (18 U.S.C.§ 2384) is
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
For a seditious conspiracy charge to be effected, a crime need only be planned, it need not be actually attempted.
Trump publically (and apparently privately as well) asked for then sec of State emails, which are property of the US government, to be stolen and released. Trump's people both communicated and personally met with Russian agents to make this happen. Again, this federal crime is so serious, doesn't even have had to happen to be prosecuted, It need only be planned. Rick Gates, associate of Manafort, has already pled guilty to conspiracy against the United States.
Trump should have stuck to building casinos.
[all boldface in partgypsy's OP]

Hope it's OK that I clarify that a section 2384 Conspiracy must involve a plot of violence -- an anticipated use of "force" or "war." I don't know of anyone who thinks that's in play.

The Conspiracy charge to which Rick Gates pleaded guilty is 18 USC 371:
https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-371.html
A low level of Conspiracy based -- in his case -- on his and Manafort's alleged schemes to defraud the federal government of tax revenues & to circumvent reporting requirements regarding banking transactions and acting as an agent for foreign interests.
Formal agreed-upon, factual Statement filed with the court in conjunction with Gates' plea of guilty:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1038806/download

 

[AGBF]

...its not just your views on DT that I'm thinking of, but look how you bash banks because some got a bailout, which they paid back, with interest, and enabled this country to avoid a full blown depression. A Dem Pres. a Republican Fed chair and a Republican Treas Sec. pulled that off. I bless them every day.

One more thought, Annette. Since you believe I never write my own thoughts, but only quote from "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times", I hope you will not mind my repeating a story I have told on Pricescope before. I am telling it again because I assume you have not read it.

My husband has worked at the Fed through several Federal Reserve Board Chairmen and one Federal Reserve Chairwoman. He was there before the banks failed and he was placed on the TARP team. (As he is a conservative Republican he actually had some private reservations about whether the government should be involved in bailing out the banks, but he happens to be a purist as a conservative, unlike the Trump Republicans of today. He doesn't believe in Big Government.) Before he went to the Fed, though, he was also a lifelong banker, so he is also a realist. (And, I should point out, he was an employee, not the Chairman of the Fed or the President of The United States so what he believed did not, ultimately, matter a fig.)

My point is that I saw TARP in action up close on a day to day basis. It took a huge amount of effort. As I have said here before my husband was deployed to The Treasury Department for several months since they do not employ bankers and they needed them. He had two laptops; two cell phones; and two offices and was racing around working many hours a day trying to get his work done. It was a huge crisis. It did benefit the big banks, not the little people, though. The banks were too big to fail. So bless them all you want, but many people who were middle class and poor suffered while the rich prospered.

I hope I have written enough on my own to earn the right to post a link, because this article is relevant to who was helped by the bank bailout. (Hint: it wasn't the middle class or the poor.) I find that sometimes people other than I have something interesting to say.

Link..https://www.thebalance.com/tarp-bailout-program-3305895

 

[partgypsy]

It's true that the conspiracy is a "lesser" federal crime. But remember Al Capone went down for tax evasion, rather than running the mob, because it was a more provable offense. I think at this point, it is important to get Trump out, even if under tax evasion, racketeering, campaign finance violation, take your pick.

 

[Dancing Fire]

It's true that the conspiracy is a "lesser" federal crime. But remember Al Capone went down for tax evasion, rather than running the mob, because it was a more provable offense. I think at this point, it is important to get Trump out, even if under tax evasion, racketeering, campaign finance violation, take your pick.

That was the left winger's agenda from day one they aren't even willing to give him a chance to run the country. Our economy is booming and the left still doesn't give Trump any credit.

 

[MarionC]

My understanding is that the economy is reflecting large scale buying ahead of the tariffs, and that a slump will follow.

 

[partgypsy]

Actually Dancing Fire, that's not true. I was hoping that the inflammatory language that Trump used during the campaign trail was simply to get elected, and he would temper his behavior once he actually served. He would understand the seriousness of his position. But it's clear that he is a worse disaster than even I could contemplate; not just that he is impulisve and ill-thought out, but at his core he is an unethical person who should have never been in the position of being the president. He is operating the white house like his scammy and shady business deals. As many people have explained to you before Dancing Fire, the president has only indirect and often after-the-fact influence on the overall US and global economy. So to judge his term a success, you are having to ignore 90% of what he is doing and it's impact on it's country. Basic stuff, like having campaigns and elections that US citizens have faith and trust in. Not having the US be downgraded from a full to a "flawed" democracy. Having a workable healthcare system for ALL citizens. Not having fear that our country through the president will initiate an unneeded war. Not worrying whether his ignorant tinkering with the economy will cause even more lost jobs for this country. But most of all, having a president who is a decent human being whom one can trust to make reasonable decisions for our country. We don't have that right now.

 

[tkyasx78]

Looks like rudy has a new song and dance this morning.
Hes stopped saying trump didnt know this morning and is saying he didnt ATTEND the meeting when asked if he knew about it.
He also said this about their favorite false flag line on “ colluding” with Russians? Rudy says “I don't even know if that's a crime,”
Of course there is no written “colluding with russians” statute. What trump should be charged with is called criminal conspiracy with a foreign nation to defraud the US elections. Among many other things
But it looks like he has moved on to his next lie on his path to getting the “base” to apathy and complacency. Maybe we need a lester holt interview so we can skip to the end Where he admits it and then say it doesnt matter and no one will stop him.

 

[JPie]

Looks like rudy has a new song and dance this morning.
Hes stopped saying trump didnt know this morning and is saying he didnt ATTEND the meeting when asked if he knew about it.
He also said this about their favorite false flag line on “ colluding” with Russians? Rudy says “I don't even know if that's a crime,”
Of course there is no written “colluding with russians” statute. What trump should be charged with is called criminal conspiracy with a foreign nation to defraud the US elections. Among many other things
But it looks like he has moved on to his next lie on his path to getting the “base” to apathy and complacency. Maybe we need a lester holt interview so we can skip to the end Where he admits it and then say it doesnt matter and no one will stop him.

I would like to take a page from your playbook and learn how to play raquetball. I have a rowing machine but I’m afraid that at this rate I will have She-Hulk shoulders at the end of Trump’s presidency.

 

[Calliecake]

Actually Dancing Fire, that's not true. I was hoping that the inflammatory language that Trump used during the campaign trail was simply to get elected, and he would temper his behavior once he actually served. He would understand the seriousness of his position. But it's clear that he is a worse disaster than even I could contemplate; not just that he is impulisve and ill-thought out, but at his core he is an unethical person who should have never been in the position of being the president. He is operating the white house like his scammy and shady business deals. As many people have explained to you before Dancing Fire, the president has only indirect and often after-the-fact influence on the overall US and global economy. So to judge his term a success, you are having to ignore 90% of what he is doing and it's impact on it's country. Basic stuff, like having campaigns and elections that US citizens have faith and trust in. Not having the US be downgraded from a full to a "flawed" democracy. Having a workable healthcare system for ALL citizens. Not having fear that our country through the president will initiate an unneeded war. Not worrying whether his ignorant tinkering with the economy will cause even more lost jobs for this country. But most of all, having a president who is a decent human being whom one can trust to make reasonable decisions for our country. We don't have that right now.

PERFECTLY SAID @PART GYPSY .

 

[soxfan]

OMG

http://thehill.com/homenews/399499-...child-to-build-the-wall-with-blocks-in-new-ad

 

[tkyasx78]

I would like to take a page from your playbook and learn how to play raquetball. I have a rowing machine but I’m afraid that at this rate I will have She-Hulk shoulders at the end of Trump’s presidency.

Kids wanted to do swimming pool tonight...
I will play racquetball in the morning!
On the upside I am down 7 pounds!!! Guess the frustration is gonna have me back in my size 6 clother sooner than I thought ! Rotf!

 

[tkyasx78]

Today a top immigration official ( aka trumps kidnapping force) said to congresd that family detention centers are "more like summer camp" than a jail.
I am thrilled. Lets get the 711 or so missing kids and their families back in time to go to school in the fall and put trump and his swamp creatures in this SUPER FUN summer camp.

They can come out when they decide to stop breaking the law, fess up to their crimes instead of trying to scream collusion isnt a crime( conspiracy is but they seem to think if they call it collusion then it is not a crime anymore) violating the constution, obstructing justice and are no longer a threat to ALL the tax paying citizens of the country.

To all the swamp creatures I hope they HAVE A GREAT TIME AT SUMMER CAMP .

 

[Dancing Fire]

I am thrilled. Lets get the 711 or so missing kids and their families back in time to go to school in the fall and put trump and his swamp creatures in this SUPER FUN summer camp.

They can come out when they decide to stop breaking the law,

So you do agree that the parents should go to jail for breaking the law.

 

[tkyasx78]

I had to actually watch the context to make sure, but trump actually did say that you need an id to buy groceries.

At first i thought , does he think people without a valid id are ALL unable to buy groceries ? How does he think people without an id eat? Surely he doesnt think that no ID people dont eat or only eat what they grow.

Then it occurred to me, dude has been sued 3000+ times ...the stores HE has been to, they must make HIM SHOW ID. Then it began to make sense!

Dh said he probably doesnt shop in years for anything , but if you NEVER shop — how would you know whether or not they require your id? You would not know one way or the other.

He says you are carded every time you buy groceries! If he is carded at the store to buy a pack of gum he may have had some possible bad issues i have never thought possible with stores and now they are requiring HIS ID.

How much of a huckster does someone have to be to have grocers saying, dude I am not taking any form of payment from you unless you can prove to me who you are so I know who to contact if payment isnt valid . But it does explain why he eats so many mc donalds, kfc and taco bowls... drive thurs avoid the grocery store showdowns where he is the ONLY customer who is getting carded for buying a bottle of mustard.

 

[tkyasx78]

So you do agree that the parents should go to jail for breaking the law.

I am FIRMLY against illegal immigration.

Having people here without documentation hurts everyone. Especially those people who came here and just wanted a better life. I dont want a person scared to go to the ER becuase they are afraid. I dont want them to be unable to support a familiy by honest work with a tax paying income. If you work in the country you should pay taxes. You should have insurance if you drive. You should follow the law . Period.
Our immigration system is not able to fix the massive problem though. Changes must happen to get these people either documented or sent home and they can apply like any other person by following the rules.

I also think that trump belongs in prision not just for the blatant violation of human rights that he forced on these 3000 or so children but for numerous other things.

Most of these people with this current 3000 children kidnapping problem, seem to be trying to escape violence and have been threatened at home and are seeking asylum. Asylum is NOT ILLEGAL. Coming to the US and seeking asylum is NOT ILLEGAL. I think each of the parents should be allowed to have their day in court and should find out if they came here to seek asylum or if they were truly intending on violating our countrys laws.
They were not given the chance to seek asylum yet and that opportunity should be granted now.
Those who were lied to and deported already should be given the chance to make their case. What trump did was wrong and violated many peoples rights. It is a violation of international law what trump did.

I suspect most of the parents were not coming to violate the law. Most of them were not given the opportunity to seek asylum.

If parents brought children to circumvent the laws and try to skip out on gaining the proper documentation to come here legally , there should be a swift return to the country of origin.
I suspect though that most of these people came here to seek asylum. You cannot apply for asylum at the origin country in most cases. The immigration laws we have right now are bad for EVERYONE. It is very hard to immigrate here legally .

We have a real immigration problem. There are some over the last 50 or so-years who did not come to see asylum but intended on breaking the laws and skipping ahead of those who apply for valid visas. I know a lady who is here on an expired visa from canada for over 20 years! She is not a danger to society, but she should not be allowed to break the law either. There are no easy answers with the issue we have.

Sadly trump looked at the broken immigration policy and thought... how can i make it WORSE. He lied about being forced to separate kids! now he is saying he wants to stop the lottery system all together. WTF....... So people who want to come will either have to be wealthy or there will be NO LINE AT ALL FOR THEM TO WAIT IN? Removing the line will never make this better.

I would not separate families who break the law to come here and especially those who never wanted to do so and wanted to come legally by asylum or by applying for visas at the points of entry. I want congress to enact a way for these people to apply to come legally and in a timely manner.
No one wants to step to the plate. Republicans cry dems want open borders ( they dont ) and dems cry repubicans wont compromise and follow trump like a lemming off a cliff.

What it means is everyone loses. You and I lose, the immigrants lose and the only winners are the ice agents who will always have job security becuase no one in washington has the guts to do anything to try to make it better.

Our immigration problem is almost to big to look at, but trump has done nothing but make it worse. He took kids who came with parents and made them orphans in a sick attempt to scare other people away.

Trump hurts people on purpose. Just to show cruelty. He thinks if he can deter people from coming he will have won somehow and he doesnt care if children are hurt by it. He is a very very very sick and bad person. I hope the aclu is able to give each family seeking asylum t he chance they should have gotten before trump violated their internationally agreed upon rights.