Hope the President does a good job for USA

[Arkteia]

In another thread, I was told I couldn't be a Christian and support anything Trump. This thread seems like a more appropriate place to address that assumption/accusation.
Anyone who voted for President in November had to overlook moral flaws. I think most pulled the lever for the candidate they thought would implement the policies important to them and our country.
Supporting policies that I think are right for our country isn't supporting everything Trump has ever done or said in his life. Don't understand why that is such a difficult concept for some to grasp.

You know, when I was listening to Trump, if one shelled off his demagoguery, and came to the core, one question was obvious, "where would you get the money?" He promised huge tax break - unless one cuts into the military-industrial complex (and he is not suicidal to do this), there is no money for such tax breaks.

It is, strangely, exactly the same question I was asking myself listening to Sanders.

We can not afford either socialism, or extreme capitalism with incredible tax breaks for the richest. Both will drown the country economically IMO.

So my biggest concern was not Trump reneging on his promises, but Trump really doing what he promised to do.

 

[LLJsmom]

tc, I started a philosophical discussion; at least that was my intention. You want to take it a different direction. I'm not interested in discussing a half dozen complex issues in one thread. Start a thread. I'll likely participate.

I cannot add much to this conversation because I don't know enough facts. However, I do find this thread quite educational. @AnnaH, when I read your original question, it did not come off as a "philosophical" kind of question. It sounded like a real question asking about how people felt Trump is doing and why. And when a question like that is asked, some people will come back with real answers and facts to support their opinion, which seems perfectly reasonable. Facts can sometimes get detailed, but that is the nature of facts. They are stated to support an opinion which was stated as a result of a question. I'm not trying to say you're mean or evil or whatever.

This is what you said on the first page:
"I voted for Trump because I thought and hoped he would keep many of his campaign policy promises, which he has."

I read through all your posts and I am still wondering what promises those were, the ones that he kept. He's President now, and until he gets impeached, I hope he does a good job. So if there are promises that he kept, I would like to know, even if I don't particularly agree with whatever promise he made.

And you did say that you wanted:

Would like to see replies with more than the usual talking points.

I hope this thread will continue. It is very interesting.

 

[AnnaH]

Thanks for your reply, LL.

You are probably correct that I didn't do a good job introducing my topic. I apologize for that to all who came to discuss.

It is a common complaint in the political threads here that those to the right are all the "ists" you can list and also ignorant. The same questions over and over are, "How could you vote for Trump, and how can you continue to support him?"

The article was intended as a brief answer to those questions. People voted for Trump because of his policy promises and support him when he keeps them. The Supreme Court appointment was the main reason I voted for him, and he kept that promise. I like his cabinet choices. I like the reduction of government restrictions on business. He wasn't successful on healthcare, but it's early days. (Although, I fear DF is correct that there is no good answer). Tax cuts haven't happened, but I think they will. That is not a comprehensive list, but enough for my purpose here.

Like most the Trump voters I know, I was a reluctant Trump voter. I don't know anyone who voted for him in the primary. That is, of course, just referring to the people who discussed their vote with me. Many people I know didn't vote for President, but they are glad when he keeps his promises because they doubted he would.

This thread wasn't started to debate each policy. That's too much for one thread.

A while back, someone started a thread asking why people voted for Trump. The OP's theory was that we all felt disenfranchised and simply voted for someone "different." There were hard feelings when I disagreed. I gave thie disconnect some thought and posted a study that explained why liberals don't understand conservatives. It was completely ignored. That said, perhaps understanding is not a goal of political discourse here.

If this isn't a good enough explanation, then I give up, at least for now.

 

[AnnaH]

Mata, my first instinct was to ignore your rude accusation that I come here to cause trouble, but I started this thread and will respond.

If I wanted trouble, I would have taken the bait about abortion that was offered to me in this thread. I did not.

Following that, Red posted a very interesting article in this thread, which discussed the prolife movement (just a small point in the piece.) I would like to have discussed that. The discussion wouldn't have been a debate about abortion but a discussion about the prolife political approach, but I didn't go there.

There are too many prochoice people here who would, I fear, not be able to handle that discussion. I don't think I've ever brought up abortion for discussion but did respond a couple of times to the topic. My responses were mild, yet you would think I had said terrible things against prochoice people.

One poster once said that, although she was strongly prochoice, she understood and thought that my respect for life was genuine. I paraphrase, but something like that. I really appreciated that.

 

[AnnaH]

BTW, I do remember who was kind to me about my being prolife, but I don't know that she would want me to name her.

 

[redwood66]

I have not been very good at being empathetic of the outrage and fear of the left about Trump. I apologize for that. I definitely have my reservations about him also. There are a few of the conservatives who have explained numerous times the reasons for either voting for Trump or abstaining or not voting for Hillary. I have become an ideology voter and would probably never vote for a democrat because any current democratic politician is not the democrat of 30+ years ago. Bill Clinton for all his flaws spoke about some things that would today be regarded as racist views - especially on immigration and welfare. But the republicans have let me down also. It is time for the likes of McCain and McConnell to go. I vote republican and hope for the best, except for the presidential spot in the last election. It would be nice if democrats would actually admit that they vote along ideological lines also. They would never have voted for any of the republican candidates in this last election. The fact that both nominees or their campaigns were under investigation by the FBI is a disgrace and should be offensive to all Americans.

 

[Matata]

I'm an outlier Red. I don't vote straight party line. Never have. There weren't many options for dems in 2016 -- Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley. The rep slate was huge and I didn't know a lot about most of them. Was interested in learning more about Rubio, Kasich, Paul as alternatives to Clinton but it became obvious to me early on that they weren't going to make it to the finals. I didn't find any redeeming value in Cruz, twitler, Bush or Carson and the rest of them didn't resonate with me at all.

I'm hoping a rising star emerges from both parties by 2020 but for now, I feel bleak about the next election.

 

[redwood66]

I went back and forth for months on Rubio and Cruz. Because my inclination surrounds being linear and orderly without emotions gumming it up, this most assuredly has an affect on my ideology. Rubio ended up being a bit too wishy washy for me. I like Rand Paul very much but he could never win and the libertarian views on foreign policy are not for me.

 

[AnnaH]

I'm an outlier Red. I don't vote straight party line. Never have. There weren't many options for dems in 2016 -- Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley. The rep slate was huge and I didn't know a lot about most of them. Was interested in learning more about Rubio, Kasich, Paul as alternatives to Clinton but it became obvious to me early on that they weren't going to make it to the finals. I didn't find any redeeming value in Cruz, twitler, Bush or Carson and the rest of them didn't resonate with me at all.

I'm hoping a rising star emerges from both parties by 2020 but for now, I feel bleak about the next election.

Agree with most of this, M. I used to sometimes vote for a Dem, but most went too far left for me.
In this past election, the Repubs and the Dems had opposite problems. The left had too few candidates, and the right had too many. I voted for Rubio because I thought he could beat HRC. Trump was definitely my last choice of the 15 or 16 or whatever it was. But I still hope Trump will be good for our country overall.

 

[telephone89]

I'm hoping a rising star emerges from both parties by 2020 but for now, I feel bleak about the next election.

Don't get your hopes up

 

[AnnaH]

Red, I like Paul, too, but didn't think he could win. I would have been very happy with at least half of the Republican candidates, including Cruz. Just thought HRC would have a tough time against Rubio.
I blamed Bush and the Washington elites who supported him for Rubio's demise. But who knows? As it turned out, Trump was far more popular than we thought.

 

[AnnaH]

T, is that Kanye?

 

[telephone89]

T, is that Kanye?

Yup haha. IDK if he's still planning on running, but I remember it was big news last year

 

[Calliecake]

Anna, I wasn't trying to bait anyone when I mentioned abortion in this thread, You stated that you wanted government to be less involved in our lives and yet feel they have a right to say what I can do with my body, I know you and I will never see eye to eye on this. I know if I'd gotten pregnant from being raped and abortion wasn't an option I doubt I would be alive today. I considered suicide and I wasn't pregnant. You have no idea what rape does to person. Under normal cicrcumstances I doubt I would be able to have an abortion but I also don't think I have a right to tell any other woman what is best for her. Maybe if you had lived thru or had a daughter live thru what I have you would understand.

I have voted for certain Republicans in the past. Our governor ran his whole campaign saying he was pro choice. Once elected he now says the opposite. Going forward I will probably vote straight democratic because of what he did.

 

[AnnaH]

What happened to you, CC, is terrible. I do have people close to me who were violated, and I have worked with rape victims. I'm so sorry that happened but glad you and they survived.
Although I'm consistent in valuing life (oppose death penalty), if legislation were written to limit abortion to rape and incest, I would support it. Furthermore, I do not judge women for abortions, although I am strongly prolife. I know many fine people who are prochoice.
I accept that you weren't trying to bait. Would be nice if I could write brief replies without being accused of baiting.
Peace

 

[t-c]

For those waiting for the Trump tax plan, Kansas also instituted drastic tax cuts ("a real-life experiment") and here's what happened yesterday:

Kansas Lawmakers Override Brownback Veto, Undoing Tax Cuts
For six years, Gov. Sam Brownback carried out a signature philosophy of cutting taxes and shrinking government across Kansas, a state dominated by his fellow Republicans.

But on Tuesday night, the state’s Republican-held Legislature overrode Governor Brownback’s veto of a bill that would undo some of the tax cuts he pushed. The state Senate and House moved swiftly, voting only hours apart to turn back Governor Brownback’s rejection of a tax increase aimed at raising about $1.2 billion over two years.

It was a remarkable rejection of the state’s tax-cutting approach after years of mounting uncertainty and unhappiness in the state over whether the tax cutting was working. That led to all-out revolt by Republican lawmakers who had grown increasingly frustrated over limits on the state’s spending on education and over state budget shortfalls....

 

[katharath]

For those waiting for the Trump tax plan, Kansas also instituted drastic tax cuts ("a real-life experiment") and here's what happened yesterday:

Kansas Lawmakers Override Brownback Veto, Undoing Tax Cuts
For six years, Gov. Sam Brownback carried out a signature philosophy of cutting taxes and shrinking government across Kansas, a state dominated by his fellow Republicans.

But on Tuesday night, the state’s Republican-held Legislature overrode Governor Brownback’s veto of a bill that would undo some of the tax cuts he pushed. The state Senate and House moved swiftly, voting only hours apart to turn back Governor Brownback’s rejection of a tax increase aimed at raising about $1.2 billion over two years.

It was a remarkable rejection of the state’s tax-cutting approach after years of mounting uncertainty and unhappiness in the state over whether the tax cutting was working. That led to all-out revolt by Republican lawmakers who had grown increasingly frustrated over limits on the state’s spending on education and over state budget shortfalls....

Oh what a mess that has been... I hope the right actually learns something from this (though I don't have high hopes). Look what Pence did to Indiana - he was so reviled there that he was widely expected to lose if up for reelection, so he was willing to gamble on Trump bc his career in Indiana was probably over. How sick that he was rewarded for his mishandling of that state - which is just one of many reasons why I don't expect the right to learn anything from Kansas.

 

[Arkteia]

I went back and forth for months on Rubio and Cruz. Because my inclination surrounds being linear and orderly without emotions gumming it up, this most assuredly has an affect on my ideology. Rubio ended up being a bit too wishy washy for me. I like Rand Paul very much but he could never win and the libertarian views on foreign policy are not for me.

Rubio is pretty smart, he was actually bullied by Trump. Ted Cruz...The person who says he is Christian first and then everything else has one problem, for me - can't imagine him throwing money on the ground and following Christ... Sorry.

Ironically, I liked Jeb Bush more than any other Bush, but times and again we have seen that nerds have very little chance to be elected.

I voted for Obama, but I can acknowledge that Romney is a very smart man, too, and had he won, I would not be scared for the country.

Republicans have certain decent people, I wonder why Collin Powell.never ran.

 

[redwood66]

I know nothing of Kansas' budget issues but it seems there are differing opinions on budget shortfalls. The biggest being a back and forth on the SCoK ruling on education funding. It appears quite a few think that the SCoK overstepped the Kansas constitution and the congress authority on spending which created the deficit. Again I am not aware of their budget but there are competing opinions on the reasons for their shortfalls.

 

[redwood66]

Rubio is pretty smart, he was actually bullied by Trump. Ted Cruz...The person who says he is Christian first and then everything else has one problem, for me - can't imagine him throwing money on the ground and following Christ... Sorry.

Ironically, I liked Jeb Bush more than any other Bush, but times and again we have seen that nerds have very little chance to be elected.

I voted for Obama, but I can acknowledge that Romney is a very smart man, too, and had he won, I would not be scared for the country.

Republicans have certain decent people, I wonder why Collin Powell.never ran.

I would have loved for Romney to win because I believe he is a decent and intelligent man, much more so than McCain. If he had won we would not have Trump. As far as Cruz being a Christian first this is not an issue with me any more than Romney being a Mormon.

 

[Calliecake]

Lets be honest if Kasich, Rubio or even Bush had won, the political threads would more than likely have died shortly after he took office. I feel ridiculous for ever complaining about Romney knowing what we are stuck with now.

I have a problem with politicians not being able to leave their religion completely out of it. It bothers we when they show them standing in a circle praying before a press conference as they did before they announced Gorsuch.

 

[AnnaH]

CC, you may be correct that the nation would have accepted someone like Rubio. I hope so. Certainly, none of the candidates you mentioned would have given so much fuel for the opposition's fire.
However, this was a serious defeat for liberals. As I mentioned in another thread today, the left thought the Presidency and the Supreme Court were locked up forever. I thought so, too. Previous to this election, it looked as if our country would continue the move toward the left.
This election gives doubt to that. We shall see.

 

[t-c]

I know nothing of Kansas' budget issues but it seems there are differing opinions on budget shortfalls. The biggest being a back and forth on the SCoK ruling on education funding. It appears quite a few think that the SCoK overstepped the Kansas constitution and the congress authority on spending which created the deficit. Again I am not aware of their budget but there are competing opinions on the reasons for their shortfalls.

Might be a good time to read up on it because Congressional Republicans are following the same principals that were applied in Kansas regarding tax cuts. I've always said: look to Kansas and the Reagan tax cuts to see what could happen. We've been there, done that, and we're going to do it again.

BTW, the Kansas Supreme Court rulings on inadequate school funding weren't issued until 2016 and 2017; the budget shortfalls were already dire by then.

 

[redwood66]

Will have to check it out.

 

[Arkteia]

Lets be honest if Kasich, Rubio or even Bush had won, the political threads would more than likely have died shortly after he took office. I feel ridiculous for ever complaining about Romney knowing what we are stuck with now.

I have a problem with politicians not being able to leave their religion completely out of it. It bothers we when they show them standing in a circle praying before a press conference as they did before they announced Gorsuch.

It is not religion. It is all politics, mind control and money-making system. I believe that our fundamentalists honestly believe, but what is mainstream in the US is just a very narrow branch of Christianity. And why is it so that European leaders do not hide behind their religion when challenged with questions related to economy, and our leaders pull out their religion each time they don't know what to say? One has to assume that either they are uneducated, or take their electorate for stupid. Or, most sadly, that they lie. In the 90-es religion was not such a big issue, it seems.

 

[AnnaH]

I can't speak to the religion thing as I'm not sure what you are referencing.

 

[Arkteia]

I would have loved for Romney to win because I believe he is a decent and intelligent man, much more so than McCain. If he had won we would not have Trump. As far as Cruz being a Christian first this is not an issue with me any more than Romney being a Mormon.

There is no way to prove whose belief in Christ - be it Evangelical Christian Cruz or member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints Romney - is "the correct one", so let us assume that both are Christians of different denominations.

 

[Tekate]

So you are against requiring agencies to get rid of two regulations if they want to impose a new one? Or requiring agency heads to review their budgets, policies and spending for duplicative efforts and unnecessary overages? Or renegotiating contracts to gain better value for our taxpayer dollar?

Every president does this. WHAT is the problem for a democrat is the agencies that he cuts budgets, the main difference between how I see Trumpty is that he is anti the policies (right to chose, separation of church and state) and he's pro something that is anathema to me: charter schools etc. There is nothing in his character that speaks of being a leader of any group except the religious right, whom seem to have relinquished their belief in fidelity in marriage, honesty and fairness.

 

[Tekate]

Hey DF - I'm in Barcelona on vacation.. but I did read that Kansas gave up the ghost on supply side, laffer econ the other day.. what do you say on that.. Not enough time???? psssh.

Yes Putin was laughing at us.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/obama...ection-i-have-more-flexibility/article/634473

 

[Dancing Fire]

Might be a good time to read up on it because Congressional Republicans are following the same principals that were applied in Kansas regarding tax cuts. I've always said: look to Kansas and the Reagan tax cuts to see what could happen. We've been there, done that, and we're going to do it again.

What could happen?...I remember the Reagan yrs. The economy was booming. 350K new jobs per month.