Hope the President does a good job for USA

[lovedogs]

Well, then explain. All you did was post a link to what a lot of Trump detractors see as wholly inadequate support of Trump. So add meat to that article -- give details, data, numbers, and give sources. Directly address arguments against your position, and support your position with additional data and facts.

And this is the crux of the issue. There aren't data, numbers, or sources that can justify supporting Trump. The facts are against him.

 

[redwood66]

All of that said he is president until he is not. I wish it were Cruz but I did not get my choice.

 

[AnnaH]

tc, if I spent a couple of hours or more posting what you ask, you would only poo poo me. Why bother?

However, if you want a deep discussion about education or healthcare, I do think you should start a thread. These are complex issues that deserve a thread of their own.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure many liberals are seeking to understand what happened with the election because they already think they have all the answers. I probably just need to accept that and quit trying. What do you think, Red?

 

[redwood66]

tc, if I spent a couple of hours or more posting what you ask, you would only poo poo me. Why bother?

However, if you want a deep discussion about education or healthcare, I do think you should start a thread. These are complex issues that deserve a thread of their own.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure many liberals are seeking to understand what happened with the election because they already think they have all the answers. I probably just need to accept that and quit trying. What do you think, Red?

There is no point and not worth trying because it does not matter anyway. Besides no one here can do anything about all the complaints about Trump. He will be president until he is not and maybe more good will come out of it than we have already gotten in Gorsuch plus the other things noted. As you said earlier, the things we approve of are not what they wanted to happen. Perhaps one or two more SCOTUS appointments?

Edit - I thought this was a good article.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/05/time-stop-cold-civil-war-heating/

And this one referred to in the above article

http://www.claremont.org/crb/article/the-cold-civil-war/

 

[partgypsy]

My simple answer is, that Hillary had a certain segment that "hated" her. Long standing. Limbaugh was a big critic. I remember my boss in the late 90's, early 2000's who literally foamed at the mouth about it. It went beyond Democratic/Republican. The rantings weren't even consistent. She would go on how Hillary was secretly a dyke, but then say some staffer was bumped off because she was secretly having an affair with him (but the death was made to look like an accident/suicide). That she was angry and vindictive towards the women Bill had affairs with, but it was a fake marriage. Judging from the "rationality" of the response I saw, and what I saw on the internet; no matter how good a public servant she was, it was irrelevant.

I also feel that the US is more sexist than many other countries, who we want as leader. Remember, white women got the vote 50 years after African American men got the right to vote.

I voted for Hillary, but that said unlike others I was not convinced she was going to win from the two above handicaps. Trump is making us well on our way to losing our standing in the world and being a 2nd class country. That's OK because Hillary!!! Honestly the entire Hillary thread, and that conservatives are STILL bringing up Hillary (as well as Trump bringing her up) shows an odd - I would say unhealthy fascination. Interestingly, the Seattle guy Christian who stabbed 2 people to death after going on an anti-Muslim rant, while his rantings were rather all over the place, he was consistenty anti-Hillary. Perhaps a sign of something?

 

[Dancing Fire]

tc, if I spent a couple of hours or more posting what you ask, you would only poo poo me. Why bother?

Exactly!

 

[AnnaH]

Interesting articles, Red. Will we end up with tolerance or violence? I don't know.

Disagree, PartG. I think I'm pretty typical in wishing I could be a part of electing the first woman president. Because HRC lost, I might yet get that opportunity.

Remember when Jenn posted in HO? She put a great deal of time and effort into her posts. I really appreciated that. I thought she left because of the nastiness, but she was probably just exhausted.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Let's not rewrite history here. Jenn isn't here because of her own board activities, not "exhaustion."

 

[redwood66]

Jenn is not here because she chooses not to be here (much like momhappy and packrat and others) and discussion of Admin/Moderator actions is against policy.

 

[Mrs2Ouch]

Be careful what you wish for.
I have drug resistant chronic migraine, pancreatitis, biliary obstruction and adhesions/possible endometriosis. I am in FB support groups for each of those and have witnessed many women wait 6 months for a scheduled surgery that I had to wait two weeks for. I have also seen men and women wait over 6 months for MRI, ERCP and MRCP results. These people go out of their minds waiting for surgery and scan results. Many went private to speed things up. This is NOT a rare occurance. I see it all the time and it frightens me. I can't imagine having to wait so long to treat my pancreatitis as unbelievable as the pain is. I understand and how people want more people covered but the chronically ill gets screwed. I became very depressed and jumped off FB (not just seeing these events but just being reminded of how I may never be well again) but I can jump back on and take screen shots for proof if needed.

I failed to mention that all those people are on the NHS. ^

 

[AnnaH]

Not hard for me to believe, Mrs2. Hope your health improves.

 

[AnnaH]

Red, I can certainly understand why people get discouraged with the political discussions here.
There's a group of liberals, not all by any means, who seem to make it their goal to chase away those with different views. I don't get it. Why don't they go somewhere like GroupMe and enjoy their own little private sessions?

 

[redwood66]

Red, I can certainly understand why people get discouraged with the political discussions here.
There's a group of liberals, not all by any means, who seem to make it their goal to chase away those with different views. I don't get it. Why don't they go somewhere like GroupMe and enjoy their own little private sessions?

It could even be called a cabal.

Edit - They can stay here just like anyone else and I will learn to get better at ignoring them. We don't want to be the ones that do not promote free speech.

 

[t-c]

tc, if I spent a couple of hours or more posting what you ask, you would only poo poo me. Why bother?

However, if you want a deep discussion about education or healthcare, I do think you should start a thread. These are complex issues that deserve a thread of their own.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure many liberals are seeking to understand what happened with the election because they already think they have all the answers. I probably just need to accept that and quit trying. What do you think, Red?

Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I am pooh-pooing yours. That I personally address your points directly and try to address them all prove that I am taking this discussion seriously. But you don't provide a whole lot of support for your point of view, so it becomes a one-sided conversation. Don't blame me for that.

 

[redwood66]

I hope you are able to manage your illnesses as best you can Mrs2Ouch.

 

[Mrs2Ouch]

Here is one MINOR example of the NHS. The discussion is in regards to the letter from the NHS.
I have seen so many of these experiences and this one was just one I happen to have a screen shot of.

 

[AnnaH]

tc, I started a philosophical discussion; at least that was my intention. You want to take it a different direction. I'm not interested in discussing a half dozen complex issues in one thread. Start a thread. I'll likely participate.

 

[Matata]

There's a group of liberals, not all by any means, who seem to make it their goal to chase away those with different views. I don't get it. Why don't they go somewhere like GroupMe and enjoy their own little private sessions?

It could even be called a cabal.

You're both being deliberately smarmy in your commentary. And from two who like to accuse others of baiting it is just too rich. I didn't expect better from AnnaH but up to this point, expected better of you Red.

There are no innocents in any of these dialogs about politics or religion or any other controversial subject discussed on this board. Each side has cast aspersions on the philosophies and characters of others. Those who do not have confidence in themselves or lack the courage of their convictions leave. They do so from freedom of choice. No one other than an admin can force a member here to leave. Put the responsibility where it belongs -- on the member. Isn't that what you, AnnaH, said conservatives approve of, personal responsibility?

 

[redwood66]

No there are no innocents and there was a tad bit of smarm from me to be sure repeating what was said about me by a poster. I am responsible for being here as are you and anyone else. Who was saying it wasn't the responsibility of the member? Some people get tired of posting and others don't. Though you did just tell me I should take a break.

As far as expecting better from me I am reacting to a couple recent threads that have completely personal attacks that ended up modified by admin with a warning for all to see.

 

[AnnaH]

M, I don't think people leave because they are weak. There are probably many various reasons they leave. I do suspect that the nastiness is one reason. That doesn't mean they lack confidence or courage. Talk about a smarmy comment.
I fail to see why you dislike/hate me so much. I've never called anyone the names I've been called.

 

[Matata]

Who was saying it wasn't the responsibility of the member?

I swear Red, you're making me grind my molars to nubs. You pick one sentence out of a paragraph and it loses its entire context. I was speaking directly to this:

There's a group of liberals, not all by any means, who seem to make it their goal to chase away those with different views.

and my point that it is an individual members choice to stay or go and no one can chase them away. The ones who leave bear the responsibility for leaving. The responsibility doesn't reside with this group of anonymous chasers that AnnaH is referring to.

 

[redwood66]

I swear Red, you're making me grind my molars to nubs. You pick one sentence out of a paragraph and it loses its entire context. I was speaking directly to this:
and my point that it is an individual members choice to stay or go and no one can chase them away. The ones who leave bear the responsibility for leaving. The responsibility doesn't reside with this group of anonymous chasers that AnnaH is referring to.

Of course they are ultimately responsible. But you make assumptions as to why they leave right here.

Those who do not have confidence in themselves or lack the courage of their convictions leave.

 

[Matata]

I fail to see why you dislike/hate me so much.

I feel no emotion for you at all. My reaction to you is based solely on how you represent yourself here. You have become, imo, an agitator serving up glib responses to requests for data that support your views. Oh, wait, you don't want to provide that data because it'll be poo poohed. You seem to want to provoke rather than discuss and I choose to not always go down the rabbit hole.

 

[Matata]

But you make assumptions as to why they leave right here.

Right. My assumptions are based on AnnaH's comment about people seeming to chase others away. I view people who are susceptible to being chased away by random comments from random people on the internet as weak. My prerogative based on my personal experience. I choose to stay and fight for what I believe or remain silent when confronted with a useless situation.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Jenn is not here because she chooses not to be here (much like momhappy and packrat and others) and discussion of Admin/Moderator actions is against policy.

You can tell yourself whatever you'd like, Red. No one was chased away, no one left because of exhaustion. Pricescope Forum: Error tells us what we need to know. For all the snickering about kids who can't handle pushback I've never seen so much whining and victim mentality than I have this past week!

 

[redwood66]

Right. My assumptions are based on AnnaH's comment about people seeming to chase others away. I view people who are susceptible to being chased away by random comments from random people on the internet as weak. My prerogative based on my personal experience. I choose to stay and fight for what I believe or remain silent when confronted with a useless situation.

I can accept that you feel that way. And I feel me typing anything in any political thread in HO is useless but I am not trying to change an opinion or move anyone to my side. Is that what you are trying to do? What is your motivation in posting about politics especially in response to me or AnnaH or any conservative? I could not care less about the Trump bashing.

 

[AnnaH]

M, i don't remember who all complained about my short responses in the K. Griffin nonsense thread. You may or may not have been involved in that, but what you are saying here is very similar. I had no interest in participating in that thread but disliked how another poster was treated. She was called a racist by a mean girl pile on. Still not sure why I was supposed to write essays in order to protest unfairly accusing someone of racism.

 

[Matata]

Is that what you are trying to do? What is your motivation in posting about politics especially in response to me or AnnaH or any conservative?

My purpose in posting about any subject here is to enjoy an exchange of ideas and information. I prefer conversations where critical thinking is exercised and where some facts are presented to support a position. People who present differing points of view, even when doing so with great passion, aren't always trying to convince the other side to change although I think both sides in a convo would like the other to validate at least a portion of an opposing viewpoint.

 

[redwood66]

My purpose in posting about any subject here is to enjoy an exchange of ideas and information. I prefer conversations where critical thinking is exercised and where some facts are presented to support a position. People who present differing points of view, even when doing so with great passion, aren't always trying to convince the other side to change although I think both sides in a convo would like the other to validate at least a portion of an opposing viewpoint.

I'll agree with all of this. I will try to work on the bolded and wait patiently for reciprocation.

 

[LLJsmom]

Yes, you're right, I had planned to address the employment numbers but didn't get around to it. While there is increased jobs, I don't really know which Trump policy drove those. I think it's just a continuation of the improving economy that was started in the Obama administration. I suppose Trump can get credit for not derailing it.

The thing with NATO: he can pressure the other members privately or he can pressure them publicly. What does he get for doing so publicly? He embarrasses the allies and increases tension. Germany is now suggesting that the US can't be relied on -- which may seem like a great thing (we won't be primarily responsible economically and militarily for protecting Europe), but it also significantly diminishes our influence throughout the world.

A lot of Trump's policies that are meant to "put America first" will actually put American standing lower, at least globally. He's forcing a stronger German-French alliance in Europe with his NATO and G7 shenanigans; he's driven Australia towards China with our withdrawal from the TPP (that power vacuum in Asia is now happily filled by China), and complete loss of influence on global climate policies by pulling out of the Paris accord. Now, you may like this if you're only looking domestically or narrower, but you have to keep in mind that nowadays business/trade is global, finance is global, the economy is global.

The people in the BMW plants in South Carolina are now learning that Trump's tough-on-Germany trade rhetoric might hit them directly in the pocketbook. But then they voted for the man who said he would renegotiate for tough trade deals that put America first.

So things aren't as simple as putting America first in everything. Sometimes, helping other countries will actually be better for the US in the long run (e.g. improving the Mexican economy helps American businesses because they buy more and it also lowers illegal immigration). But we have a simple president with simple policies that are hits with people who don't like nuance. I hope we don't soon hear "who knew the economy, global trade, and finance could be so complicated?"

I would still like to get a list of Trump's promises that he's fulfilled from you. Surely it's not just NATO.

@t-c how do you put it so clearly? You pulled out exactly what was in my head but I couldn't explain, and with all the facts and details to support your assertions. Heck, I think you should run for President. You've got my vote.