Hope the President does a good job for USA

[Calliecake]

Ford said she was sexually assaulted by Kav., but none of her friends can corroborate her story ?

And as for gun control? I'm in favor of more restrictions on high power auto rifles which I don't think is legal here in Ca.

@Dancing Fire , Thirty years ago most women never spoke up, most women don’t speak up today. The reason is almost all sexual assaults happen with only two people in the room. It comes down to your word against his. Women are traumatized after this happens. Trauma has an affect on people and not every person handles it the same. Dr. Ford was a 15 year old girl when this happened. I found her to be very credible and don’t doubt that she wasn’t uncomfortable telling anyone. She talked to a therapist about this and explained the ways it affect her life going forward. We live in a country where rape culture is alive and well. Please have a conversation with your wife and daughters about this. Maybe they can explain this better than I can.

 

[Tekate]

This is an opinion piece my a liberal columnist for the Trib. You need to read much more than this to get caught up on the dynamic of gang shootings plaguing Chicago. @maria D’s comment “we have no reason to be in a gang infested Chicago neighborhood so we gloss over any news about what goes on there.” Maybe her opinion, even though she speaks for others, but it’s a blatantly racist and ignorant comment. I guess black on black gangbangers shooting each other and those in their crossfire isn’t worthy of your notice or empathy. It’s only about what effects YOU. Democratic leadership is only one of the problems in Illinois...research more.

@Bonfire I will do this before making any more comments on it as I don't have enough knowledge to offer any other thoughts on the matter. I thought and still think that Maria was saying that black on black crime wasn't taken as seriously in America and that the deaths are Chicago are not hate crimes and therefore do not evoke the kind of coverage that hate killings do.. I did not find anything racist in her comment.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you so much! I thought so too. Asymetric Partisianship is the problem here. Thank you for watching!!!

That was a really interesting video @Tekate. We have a similar movement happening here with our two more socially liberal parties remaining pretty consistent, and our conservative party that has historically been fairly centrist is now seeming to be going in more extreme directions. I wonder if it’s because people feel that their world is changing in directions they are uncomfortable with (multiculturalism, global economies, the loss of rural communities as jobs become increasingly more urban, increased secularism, increased acceptance of non-traditional gender roles, etc.), and are getting more and more desperate to turn back the tide. It’s easy to see how people can get extreme if they genuinely feel that their way of life, their values, and their faith based beliefs are being lost. What makes me sad is that I don’t see it as an either or. Being respectful of other people’s choices doesn’t mean that you have to live your life the same way. But perhaps that’s part of the divide.

 

[Bonfire]

@Bonfire I will do this before making any more comments on it as I don't have enough knowledge to offer any other thoughts on the matter. I thought and still think that Maria was saying that black on black crime wasn't taken as seriously in America and that the deaths are Chicago are not hate crimes and therefore do not evoke the kind of coverage that hate killings do.. I did not find anything racist in her comment.

Well...we can agree to disagree then.

 

[Arcadian]

Lads and Ladies.

I want to comment and tell you how much I love you all, even when we disagree (especially when we don't)

We don't have to like each other nor do we have to always agree, but I always hope for meaning full and respectful discussion on things.

Anyway, I'm going to be a very busy girl until after Midterms and posting mainly fluff....lol.

 

[House Cat]

This is an opinion piece my a liberal columnist for the Trib. You need to read much more than this to get caught up on the dynamic of gang shootings plaguing Chicago. @maria D’s comment “we have no reason to be in a gang infested Chicago neighborhood so we gloss over any news about what goes on there.” Maybe her opinion, even though she speaks for others, but it’s a blatantly racist and ignorant comment. I guess black on black gangbangers shooting each other and those in their crossfire isn’t worthy of your notice or empathy. It’s only about what effects YOU. Democratic leadership is only one of the problems in Illinois...research more.

1. Maria said nothing about race or black people in her post. She used the term “gang.” You interpreted that to mean “black.”

2. You continue to refer to gang members as black individuals which is racist. There are gang members of all races...even in Chicago

 

[Tekate]

Well I wouldn't say I was partisian as much as I read it for what I interpreted her words to be. I can always learn, what is it you found that was racist?

I just read this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-history-of-chicago-homicides-htmlstory.html

Do you think this explains well what happened in Chicago? My take is nothing worked really, that crack, low employment, poor policing, poverty, GANGS, but a lot was tried I can say that. The culture of violence too. It's all easy for me to think about in my cozy chair, in my little house, I did live in a bad area of the Bronx where crime was high and my sister was attacked in the 70s so I have seen crime up close in one way.

While there are jobs aplenty in the USA, the unemployment rate is 3.6% in Chicago recently so people are working, but that stat doesn't show those who have given up..

According to statistics Chicago does not have the highest murder rate in the USA.

The original complaint was by either Red or MT that Obama did nothing to help Chicago, but I don't know if that is relevant because he was president and not governor of Illinois, there are actually cities with higher murder rates than Chicago, I thought it was 'murder capitol' but I think that distinction is LA. The state has had a republican governor since 15, Rahm Emmanual has been the mayor, both seem to have been ineffective in sweeping changes but the murder rate has declined since the late 90s.

As I said, I am not sure what Obama could do, states rights etc. As far as I could find there is one republican who announced he would like to run for mayor or Chicago and dozens of democrats, not sure if there has been voting on who is running yet. Very democratic city so I wonder if a republican would have a chance. Maybe they want a Trumplike change there. Time will tell.

If you think I've still not got a clue on to what caused the crime in Chicago, I would love a pointer to what you think I should read.

Well...we can agree to disagree then.
No one here really cares as long as it falls into their partisan dogmas.

 

[AGBF]

Well...we can agree to disagree then.
No one here really cares to come together. Just align with their partisan dogmas.

I do not come here to talk because I need to "come together' with other Pricescope members. I also need no reinforcement for my "partisan dogmas". I am very sure of my own beliefs. I come here for intellectual stimulation about topics about which I am interested. The more logical and sophisticated the discussion is, the more I enjoy it. That is one reason that I liked the "closed" political discussion forum that we had at one point. (We have had debates about whether it is better to use Hangout for political threads or whether Hangout is ruined for posters who do not like political threads by the profusion of political threads here now.)

The drawback to a closed forum was the dearth of discussion there. The quality of discussion was high but the quantity was low.

My point, however, was that I do not want to discuss a topic in order to come to a compromise solution to a problem with the other posters on Pricescope. I want to discuss a topic because it is interesting and/or important to me.

AGBF

 

[Tekate]

@AGBF well said. I love the political discussions because I learn about opinions etc that I do not hold, I learned much more about libertarian views and made me understand and be more tolerant of the right, which opened my eyes. I also come here to look at jewelry and have bought from several vendors here! I'm glad they allow us to converse. I would hate if Ella shut it down, but I do know if it gets worse she will have to.

 

[Maria D]

@maria D’s comment “we have no reason to be in a gang infested Chicago neighborhood so we gloss over any news about what goes on there.” Maybe her opinion, even though she speaks for others, but it’s a blatantly racist and ignorant comment. I guess black on black gangbangers shooting each other and those in their crossfire isn’t worthy of your notice or empathy. It’s only about what effects YOU. Democratic leadership is only one of the problems in Illinois...research more.

How does the bolded follow from what I wrote? Where did I say ANY victim wasn't worthy of notice or empathy? They are worthy of much, much more than that. Notice and empathy is just about as useful as "thoughts and prayers," meaning not at all.

Only victims of certain socio-economic and ethnic/racial backgrounds in certain kinds of places massacred with a certain number of other victims get much attention, and not for long at that.

 

[Bonfire]

Well I wouldn't say I was partisian as much as I read it for what I interpreted her words to be. I can always learn, what is it you found that was racist?

I just read this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-history-of-chicago-homicides-htmlstory.html

Do you think this explains well what happened in Chicago? My take is nothing worked really, that crack, low employment, poor policing, poverty, GANGS, but a lot was tried I can say that. The culture of violence too. It's all easy for me to think about in my cozy chair, in my little house, I did live in a bad area of the Bronx where crime was high and my sister was attacked in the 70s so I have seen crime up close in one way.

While there are jobs aplenty in the USA, the unemployment rate is 3.6% in Chicago recently so people are working, but that stat doesn't show those who have given up..

According to statistics Chicago does not have the highest murder rate in the USA.

The original complaint was by either Red or MT that Obama did nothing to help Chicago, but I don't know if that is relevant because he was president and not governor of Illinois, there are actually cities with higher murder rates than Chicago, I thought it was 'murder capitol' but I think that distinction is LA. The state has had a republican governor since 15, Rahm Emmanual has been the mayor, both seem to have been ineffective in sweeping changes but the murder rate has declined since the late 90s.

As I said, I am not sure what Obama could do, states rights etc. As far as I could find there is one republican who announced he would like to run for mayor or Chicago and dozens of democrats, not sure if there has been voting on who is running yet. Very democratic city so I wonder if a republican would have a chance. Maybe they want a Trumplike change there. Time will tell.

If you think I've still not got a clue on to what caused the crime in Chicago, I would love a pointer to what you think I should read.

Tekate I appreciate your desire to bone up on some of the problems Chicago faces, I really do. You would have to go much further back to understand the Chicago Machine and all the problems associated with it’s corrupt politicians. We’re talking many decades. FWIW Obama arrived on the Chicago scene as a Community Activist. There is much to read about that. He was charismatic and had strong backing and connections from David Axelrod, Mayor Richard Daley and cronies. He was elected as Junior Senator from Illinois. You know where it went from there. During his two terms as POTUS he didn’t do anything to shed light on or help his home state deal with the escalating gang violence that was taking thousands of young black lives, and plenty of innocents in the crossfire. Yes, it’s a multi pronged problem. Poverty, drugs, lack of opportunity for young black men, so they join gangs that become their family. Many in Chicago feel Obama could have done more. Many blacks are sorely disappointed he didn’t try. There is SO much more, it’s a very deep hole. One of the “bad neighborhoods” Maria D references is where the Obama’s have a very lovely home. Mayor Rahm Emmanual had a program a few years ago called Cash for Guns. $100 to turn in your guns. No questions asked. They got many guns off the streets. So much more is needed.

For Obama to speak out about gun control at a school shooting is appropriate, however, it is hypocritical and inappropriate to not do anything about the gun violence in his own home town. I *think* that is the point the mother thing was making. And it’s valid.

Peace to you all...

 

[Maria D]

@Maria D , We are at the point where we are desensitized by mass shootings because have become the norm in our country. We had three mass shootings in a day last month and it was reported on the news for a few moments and no one mentions it afterward. For those of us living near Chicago, its never easy to hear yet another person has lost their life do to gun violence. My thoughts always go to how these families will never be the same or that they will get over the loss of their loved one.

I was called disgusting here last Saturday when I said a mass shooting was taking place in a Pittsburg Synagogue. This crime stood out because it was a hate crime and Trump has not condemned white supremacy. I tend to think it’s disgusting that our country allows AR-15 and weapons with high capacity magazines to be legal. Last Saturday’s murders were committed with a gun that was legally purchased. Let’s also be honest about the majority of mass shooting are committed by white males, not minorities or people in the county illegally. Stating the facts doesn’t make me a person that has anything against white males. It is just a fact.

Trumps rally tonight was full of more hateful rhetoric. Something is very wrong when the only thing that matters to our politicians is winning at all cost.

I am beyond desensitized. I used to be angry that nothing is done. Bump stocks are still not federally banned! And the reasons why got me angrier - "2nd Amendment says so, we're not like Australia, but semi-automatic weapons are fun don't spoil my fun just because people be crazy that's the real problem..." Now I'm just numb. We've all got to go sometime. When I hear about someone killed in a senseless shooting I liken it to getting hit by lightening. It's rare, but it happens. 58 people at once? It's just dying by natural causes in the U.S. where "natural" is defined as the right to bear any f*king arms you want.

 

[Maria D]

For Obama to speak out about gun control at a school shooting is appropriate, however, it is hypocritical and inappropriate to not do anything about the gun violence in his own home town. I *think* that is the point the mother thing was making. And it’s valid.

Peace to you all...

I agree with the bolded but that is not the point the mother thing was making. She feels very strongly that a president speaking out about gun control immediately after a mass shooting is inappropriate. "Not the time or place."

 

[the_mother_thing]

Tekate I appreciate your desire to bone up on some of the problems Chicago faces, I really do. You would have to go much further back to understand the Chicago Machine and all the problems associated with it’s corrupt politicians. We’re talking many decades. FWIW Obama arrived on the Chicago scene as a Community Activist. There is much to read about that. He was charismatic and had strong backing and connections from David Axelrod, Mayor Richard Daley and cronies. He was elected as Junior Senator from Illinois. You know where it went from there. During his two terms as POTUS he didn’t do anything to shed light on or help his home state deal with the escalating gang violence that was taking thousands of young black lives, and plenty of innocents in the crossfire. Yes, it’s a multi pronged problem. Poverty, drugs, lack of opportunity for young black men, so they join gangs that become their family. Many in Chicago feel Obama could have done more. Many blacks are sorely disappointed he didn’t try. There is SO much more, it’s a very deep hole. One of the “bad neighborhoods” Maria D references is where the Obama’s have a very lovely home. Mayor Rahm Emmanual had a program a few years ago called Cash for Guns. $100 to turn in your guns. No questions asked. They got many guns off the streets. So much more is needed.

For Obama to speak out about gun control at a school shooting is appropriate, however, it is hypocritical and inappropriate to not do anything about the gun violence in his own home town. I *think* that is the point the mother thing was making. And it’s valid.

Peace to you all...

That is EXACTLY the point I was making. TY.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I agree with the bolded but that is not the point the mother thing was making. She feels very strongly that a president speaking out about gun control immediately after a mass shooting is inappropriate. "Not the time or place."

I do not find it in good taste nor appropriate to be politicizing a tragedy before the ambulance can even show up. Do you think ANY victim or victim’s family member at that moment is stopping to think, “Gee, I sure hope our president/past president is taking this opportunity to lambast gun laws while my loved one bleeds out”?

I think not.

 

[Maria D]

I do not find it in good taste nor appropriate to be politicizing a tragedy before the ambulance can even show up. Do you think ANY victim or victim’s family member at that moment is stopping to think, “Gee, I sure hope our president/past president is taking this opportunity to lambast gun laws while my loved one bleeds out”?

I think not.

It's absolutely what I would hope for. Presidents (and legislators) should be taking every single opportunity to speak out and do something about our gun violence problem. It sickens me that they don't.

 

[Calliecake]

I think more than half the country thinks this needs to stop. We need to make changes. Many of us were disgusted when Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, and Stoneman Douglas happened and nothing was changed. Guns are a problem in this country.

Are we supposed to just move along as if these mass shooting are normal and go about our lives and ignore the fact that something terrible has happened. How many times do we have to hear “Thoughts and prayers” or “Not the time or the place” before we put common sense gun laws in place? We are ALL responsible for this problem because we are allowing these tragedies to continue.

No citizen needs high capacity magazines or the guns that make it possible to kill many people in seconds. These are not toys, or something to play with. They are killing machines. They do exactly what they were designed and made to do.

 

[Calliecake]

Listening to this President is embarrrassing.

 

[Bonfire]

How many times do we have to hear “Thoughts and prayers” or “Not the time or the place” before we put common sense gun laws in place? We are ALL responsible for this problem because we are allowing these tragedies to continue.

Did you feel the same disgust when Obama used this phrase often? Got us nowhere. Or Biden? How about Bill Clinton’s “I feel your pain.”

 

[Maria D]

Did you feel the same disgust when Obama used this phrase often? Got us nowhere. Or Biden? How about Bill Clinton’s “I feel your pain.”

For me the disgust comes from ONLY hearing "thoughts and prayers" when no action is taken. Did Obama not call for re-introducing the assault weapons ban and universal background checks? Yes, he absolutely should have addressed ALL gun violence while in office. But that doesn't mean he sat back and did nothing like an NRA patsy.

Bottom line in this circular conversation: Obama was protested against for speaking about solutions to gun violence. Trump was protested against for riling up his base with dangerous rhetoric to tragic results. Trump apologists and conservatives in this thread tried to equate Obama being unwelcome in Oregon with Trump being unwelcome in Pittsburgh. Not only is it an erroneous comparison, it doesn't matter. Obama is out, Clinton lost, Trump is POTUS. If his supporters can't come back with an argument better than "Obama did it too" that tells it all.

 

[Bonfire]

For me the disgust comes from ONLY hearing "thoughts and prayers" when no action is taken. Did Obama not call for re-introducing the assault weapons ban and universal background checks? Yes, he absolutely should have addressed ALL gun violence while in office. But that doesn't mean he sat back and did nothing like an NRA patsy.

Bottom line in this circular conversation: Obama was protested against for speaking about solutions to gun violence. Trump was protested against for riling up his base with dangerous rhetoric to tragic results. Trump apologists and conservatives in this thread tried to equate Obama being unwelcome in Oregon with Trump being unwelcome in Pittsburgh. Not only is it an erroneous comparison, it doesn't matter. Obama is out, Clinton lost, Trump is POTUS. If his supporters can't come back with an argument better than "Obama did it too" that tells it all.

Thanks for your response Maria, my simple question was addressed to Calliecake but her defensive lineman answered in her stead. I’m not to be lumped in as a Trump supporter like you like to accuse those of us that don’t completely agree with your positions, but that’s fine too as no one here really listens to anyone. We’re considered the enemy if we don’t fall in step with you. Have a good evening Maria.

 

[Matata]

We’re considered the enemy if we don’t fall in step with you.

Bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. You, redwood, and the mother make this claim whenever you get frustrated when you can't get agreement with your perspective. Next comes the accusation that the majority here attempt to shut down conversations when the minority doesn't agree with us. More bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. What happens here is called debate, discussion, argument. It's what happens even when like-minded individuals talk about highly charged topics.

 

[Bonfire]

Bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. You, redwood, and the mother make this claim whenever you get frustrated when you can't get agreement with your perspective. Next comes the accusation that the majority here attempt to shut down conversations when the minority doesn't agree with us. More bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. What happens here is called debate, discussion, argument. It's what happens even when like-minded individuals talk about highly charged topics.

I’m not looking for agreement from you Matata or anyone else. Have a good evening.

 

[Octo2005]

Thought I would share this for anyone on the fence about whether Trump is responsible for inciting hatred and violence. Not that anyone here is

https://womenintheworld.com/2017/07...nton-shooting-targets-at-trump-rally-in-ohio/

 

[AGBF]

Thanks for your response Maria, my simple question was addressed to Calliecake but her defensive lineman answered in her stead.

That was rude, Bonfire. Everyone who posts on Hangout has a right to speak. If Maria wants to respond to a posting, that it is her right. It is not polite of you to call her a pejorative term like "defensive lineman" for speaking her piece here.

It makes me wonder if you are trying to stifle Maria's voice. But whatever your reasons (which are not my business), your actions were rude.

AGBF

 

[Bonfire]

That was rude, Bonfire. Everyone who posts on Hangout has a right to speak. If Maria wants to respond to a posting, that it is her right. It is not polite of you to call her a pejorative term like "defensive lineman" for speaking her piece here.

It makes me wonder if you are trying to stifle Maria's voice. But whatever your reasons (which are not my business), your actions were rude.

AGBF

Plenty of rudeness to go around here Deb, however, I will apologize for mine. Have a good evening.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. You, redwood, and the mother make this claim whenever you get frustrated when you can't get agreement with your perspective. Next comes the accusation that the majority here attempt to shut down conversations when the minority doesn't agree with us. More bull, poppycock, drivel, and bilge. What happens here is called debate, discussion, argument. It's what happens even when like-minded individuals talk about highly charged topics.

1) I don’t get frustrated by internet strangers.
2) I’m not ever seeking agreement with my perspective.
3) You get from me what you give.

 

[Calliecake]

Do you not think we need common sense gun control @Bonfire? You have children who are married or about to be married, who may have children. Are you not concerned that this could happen one day at their school? I’m asking because I have no idea where you stand on this issue.

I am well aware Sandy Hook happened while Obama was president. Of course I was upset when nothing was changed regarding gun control. My feelings on this issue have remained the same for many years, regardless of who is in office. I do believe Obama tried to bring about change. I’m hoping the younger generation, who grew up having to participate in shooting drills, send the message that our guns laws need to change.

 

[Calliecake]

@AGBF, @Maria D and @Matata , I’m curious about your thoughts on Trump’s speech today?

Wow @Octo2005 , I had not seen this. Thank you posting. How could anyone come to the conclusion that Trump is not inciting violence.

 

[Maria D]

@AGBF, @Maria D and @Matata , I’m curious about your thoughts on Trump’s speech today?

Wow @Octo2005 , I had not seen this. Thank you posting. How could anyone come to the conclusion that Trump is not inciting violence.

I had a long day of parent/teacher conferences and haven't seen it. Now I've just polished off a glass of wine. Am I going to need another glass before I go looking for it?