Hong Kong Show Highlights

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hong Kong Show highlights: Little Lab biz, few gem and diamond buyers, Some jewelry business, pearls were hot!
Perhaps Covid taught buyers and sellers to sell with photos and videos? Just like working from home?
At my first fair since 2019 I didn’t hear the loud Russian buyers and very few American accents. I think there were more vendor to vendor sales. The pearl hall and the shop display and tools area were both packed!

Although Lab manmade diamonds are mostly made in Asia, most are sold in USA with little interest from China, SE Asia, Asia or Arabs. I guess because they are not seen as fungible diamonds that can be used as a store of value like gold? Please share your views?

One of my people went to a trends presentation, the head of IGI China said grown stones may take decades to take off there. In the lab pavilion there were more moissanite and synthetic gemstones buyers than at the huge expensive lab stands.
Some Indian companies are claiming to generate enough electricity to be 100% sustainable by selling as much power to the grid as they use overnight or on windless cloudy days. I spoke with the CEO of one company and got a compelling story, but little evidence. A quick google map search around their factory in Surat area shows none of the solar farms I was shown on his phone.

 

[DejaWiz]

Although Lab manmade diamonds are mostly made in Asia, most are sold in USA with little interest from China, SE Asia, Asia or Arabs. I guess because they are not seen as fungible diamonds that can be used as a store of value like gold? Please share your views?

Most of us probably already know the answer to this: do most countries have very specific rules, regulations, and laws pertaining to LGDs to protect the consumer by eliminating the capability of makers and sellers of calling all sorts of simulants "grown diamonds"?
The USA does, so the volume of real grown diamonds would probably naturally be sent here for sales and profits while a lot of unscrupulously labeled "grown diamond" simulants would be sold in those countries to unsuspecting customers for wider profits.
Eventually, the ruse wears out as burned buyers start becoming educated on the subject to protect themselves going forward.
Am I off the mark?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Most of us probably already know the answer to this: do most countries have very specific rules, regulations, and laws pertaining to LGDs to protect the consumer by eliminating the capability of makers and sellers of calling all sorts of simulants "grown diamonds"?
The USA does, so the volume of real grown diamonds would probably naturally be sent here for sales and profits while a lot of unscrupulously labeled "grown diamond" simulants would be sold in those countries to unsuspecting customers for wider profits.
Eventually, the ruse wears out as burned buyers start becoming educated on the subject to protect themselves going forward.
Am I off the mark?

No I don't think fakery is the issue DJ. Try to buy any gold less than 18k from Asia to the pacific. No chance.

 

[DejaWiz]

No I don't think fakery is the issue DJ. Try to buy any gold less than 18k from Asia to the pacific. No chance.

Is that more an issue of supply or an issue of transport and import costs?

 

[0515vision]

As an East Asian, I think there’s are cultural factors regarding the lack of interest in lab, grown stones in that region of the world. I’m also not surprised that 18k is the bottom of the standard.

South Korea has the highest per capita consumption of luxury goods. There is tremendous value to showing off your money to the collective. I also suspect there is an element of shame when not being able to afford the “real” items. Sure there are plenty of fake handbags, but many people can spot a fake handbag. But to own an optically identical lab diamond may be too much of a stretch. They would feel like a fraud.

Here’s a historical sidebar. Confucianism took hold in China (and by extension, Taiwan), Korea, Japan, Vietnam. Within that philosophy is a huge emphasis on collectivist thinking and social order. Status symbols (e.g., material goods, academic degrees, etc) have a greater weight over there than over here in the US. The US tends to embrace self made success stories to a higher degree. LGD tend to appeal to the independent Western thinker whereas EGD have the pedigree which legitimizes them to certain East Asians.

My mother calls my LGD 가짜 which translates to fake. Old World vs New World. Even on PS there’s a clear generational divide over EGD and LGD. As seen in the Price Drop in White Diamonds thread, the philosophy behind diamond ownership is what drives the value both monetarily and experientially.

I realize there must be other East Asians on PS, so I will insert my requisite disclaimer. These are only my personal observations from within my family and my slice of Korea. My father is an academic whose entire body of work is about quality of life in Confucian nations. I’m sure other East Asians will have other perspectives.

 

[Alybird]

As an East Asian, I think there’s are cultural factors regarding the lack of interest in lab, grown stones in that region of the world. I’m also not surprised that 18k is the bottom of the standard.

South Korea has the highest per capita consumption of luxury goods. There is tremendous value to showing off your money to the collective. I also suspect there is an element of shame when not being able to afford the “real” items. Sure there are plenty of fake handbags, but many people can spot a fake handbag. But to own an optically identical lab diamond may be too much of a stretch. They would feel like a fraud.

Here’s a historical sidebar. Confucianism took hold in China (and by extension, Taiwan), Korea, Japan, Vietnam. Within that philosophy is a huge emphasis on collectivist thinking and social order. Status symbols (e.g., material goods, academic degrees, etc) have a greater weight over there than over here in the US. The US tends to embrace self made success stories to a higher degree. LGD tend to appeal to the independent Western thinker whereas EGD have the pedigree which legitimizes them to certain East Asians.

My mother calls my LGD 가짜 which translates to fake. Old World vs New World. Even on PS there’s a clear generational divide over EGD and LGD. As seen in the Price Drop in White Diamonds thread, the philosophy behind diamond ownership is what drives the value both monetarily and experientially.

I realize there must be other East Asians on PS, so I will insert my requisite disclaimer. These are only my personal observations from within my family and my slice of Korea. My father is an academic whose entire body of work is about quality of life in Confucian nations. I’m sure other East Asians will have other perspectives.

This makes sense, and also added that luxury purchases are viewed within the scope of being able to pass down wealth to future generations. Much of Asian culture having to do with spending revolves around the care of others and the elevation of the family unit versus oneself.

 

[Alybird]

Hong Kong Show highlights: Little Lab biz, few gem and diamond buyers, Some jewelry business, pearls were hot!
Perhaps Covid taught buyers and sellers to sell with photos and videos? Just like working from home?
At my first fair since 2019 I didn’t hear the loud Russian buyers and very few American accents. I think there were more vendor to vendor sales. The pearl hall and the shop display and tools area were both packed!

Although Lab manmade diamonds are mostly made in Asia, most are sold in USA with little interest from China, SE Asia, Asia or Arabs. I guess because they are not seen as fungible diamonds that can be used as a store of value like gold? Please share your views?

One of my people went to a trends presentation, the head of IGI China said grown stones may take decades to take off there. In the lab pavilion there were more moissanite and synthetic gemstones buyers than at the huge expensive lab stands.
Some Indian companies are claiming to generate enough electricity to be 100% sustainable by selling as much power to the grid as they use overnight or on windless cloudy days. I spoke with the CEO of one company and got a compelling story, but little evidence. A quick google map search around their factory in Surat area shows none of the solar farms I was shown on his phone.

Interesting! What sort of pearls were most popular?

 

[Rockdiamond]

And yet I’ve got friends heavily invested in Labs telling me they’re selling a $hit load of them in China

 

[DejaWiz]

a $hit load

I, too, use this term a lot (easily multiple times per day)...do we have a formal quantifying metric as to what classifies a large number of something to be considered a $hit load?
I want to make sure that I'm remaining professional in my office environment when I use the term.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Is that more an issue of supply or an issue of transport and import costs?

I mean There just ain't any 14k or 10k or 9k in Asia

 

[DejaWiz]

I mean There just ain't any 14k or 10k or 9k in Asia

I think I understand now based on 0515vision's wonderfully insightful post...it's not a matter of supply of materials to mix in and get gold below 18k, but 18k or better is what is desired and expected by the populace.

 

[0515vision]

And yet I’ve got friends heavily invested in Labs telling me they’re selling a $hit load of them in China

I could see the lab market developing in certain sectors that wouldn’t necessarily be represented at a HK Gem show. A *huge* market.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I, too, use this term a lot (easily multiple times per day)...do we have a formal quantifying metric as to what classifies a large number of something to be considered a $hit load?
I want to make sure that I'm remaining professional in my office environment when I use the term.

Really good point. Any discussion of China and LGDs…I mean we’re talking about billions of people….immense market.
The dealers I’m talking to could easily be full of $hit, or have a different idea in terms of scale. To some people a million is a large number. Others are talking billions.
But the amount of times my buddies have gone over there….a lot. (Maybe 5 times last year to be more precise

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

As an East Asian, I think there’s are cultural factors regarding the lack of interest in lab, grown stones in that region of the world. I’m also not surprised that 18k is the bottom of the standard.

South Korea has the highest per capita consumption of luxury goods. There is tremendous value to showing off your money to the collective. I also suspect there is an element of shame when not being able to afford the “real” items. Sure there are plenty of fake handbags, but many people can spot a fake handbag. But to own an optically identical lab diamond may be too much of a stretch. They would feel like a fraud.

Here’s a historical sidebar. Confucianism took hold in China (and by extension, Taiwan), Korea, Japan, Vietnam. Within that philosophy is a huge emphasis on collectivist thinking and social order. Status symbols (e.g., material goods, academic degrees, etc) have a greater weight over there than over here in the US. The US tends to embrace self made success stories to a higher degree. LGD tend to appeal to the independent Western thinker whereas EGD have the pedigree which legitimizes them to certain East Asians.

My mother calls my LGD 가짜 which translates to fake. Old World vs New World. Even on PS there’s a clear generational divide over EGD and LGD. As seen in the Price Drop in White Diamonds thread, the philosophy behind diamond ownership is what drives the value both monetarily and experientially.

I realize there must be other East Asians on PS, so I will insert my requisite disclaimer. These are only my personal observations from within my family and my slice of Korea. My father is an academic whose entire body of work is about quality of life in Confucian nations. I’m sure other East Asians will have other perspectives.

That is an amazingly insightful point of view. Thanks so much for sharing very useful information!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Interesting! What sort of pearls were most popular?

I didn't look closely but by weight probably fresh water by 100 akoya X10 and south sea

 

[lulu_ma]

Even on PS there’s a clear generational divide over EGD and LGD. As seen in the Price Drop in White Diamonds thread, the philosophy behind diamond ownership is what drives the value both monetarily and experientially.

@0515vision I think you would actually be surprised about the "generational divide." LGDs seem to appeal to PSers of varying ages.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@0515vision I think you would actually be surprised about the "generational divide." LGDs seem to appeal PSers of varying ages.

Hahahaha - anyone that assumes that the people on this forum are representative of anything are more nuts than me!

 

[finerthings]

I mean There just ain't any 14k or 10k or 9k in Asia

It does not surprise me at all that the Asian market isn't purchasing Lab diamonds. The Asian market is very discerning. Quite honestly I won't buy lab grown either because I don't consider them natural diamonds. They are man made even though they are of the same chemical composition, they are not made by forces of nature. That is why "real" diamonds cost more, because it takes billions of years for them to be created. Now if you have a limited budget and don't care about provenance, then go for it and buy the lab grown one. It's a personal and cultural decision. Reselling a lab grown one will never fetch the same price as a earth grown one.

As for your gold quote - 14k and below is not considered high end gold jewelry. Just look at Cartier, Tiffany... and many other high end jewelers. No discerning collector will ever invest in something that is not 18K or above, or platinum. Are your are surprised by this @Garry H (Cut Nut)?

 

[LLJsmom]

Hong Kong Show highlights: Little Lab biz, few gem and diamond buyers, Some jewelry business, pearls were hot!
Perhaps Covid taught buyers and sellers to sell with photos and videos? Just like working from home?
At my first fair since 2019 I didn’t hear the loud Russian buyers and very few American accents. I think there were more vendor to vendor sales. The pearl hall and the shop display and tools area were both packed!

Although Lab manmade diamonds are mostly made in Asia, most are sold in USA with little interest from China, SE Asia, Asia or Arabs. I guess because they are not seen as fungible diamonds that can be used as a store of value like gold? Please share your views?

One of my people went to a trends presentation, the head of IGI China said grown stones may take decades to take off there. In the lab pavilion there were more moissanite and synthetic gemstones buyers than at the huge expensive lab stands.
Some Indian companies are claiming to generate enough electricity to be 100% sustainable by selling as much power to the grid as they use overnight or on windless cloudy days. I spoke with the CEO of one company and got a compelling story, but little evidence. A quick google map search around their factory in Surat area shows none of the solar farms I was shown on his phone.

Thanks for sharing this very interesting observation. I can’t say I’m surprised since my own Asian family (here and across the ocean) sees labs as fake diamonds. Their definition of diamonds includes mined from the earth. I can’t argue with them because that is how much hey define a diamond and I cannot blame them. To me, The US has always been one to embrace change and new ideas more quickly than most countries, for better or worse.

 

[maryjane04]

Coming from a SE Asian family and having asian relatives, jewellery is very much about being mind clean and about being an investment. Hence why 24K gold or gold in particular is gifted for major milestones like first birthdays and weddings. I think in these asian countries, it's not about the biggest diamonds but about the "asian specs" as being as high colour and close to flawless as possible.

Although in saying that my little sister and the younger generation don't care too much about the provenance of diamonds and where it came from and my sister says she doesn't like 18/24K gold because it's "too shiny" hahaha! Can you believe that we are related? LOL.

 

[Willinformed]

https://www.theworldofchinese.com/2023/08/why-are-diamonds-losing-their-shine-in-china/

According to the Gems and Jewelry Trade Association of China, the country’s annual production capacity of lab-grown diamonds is 9 million carats, accounting for about 40 percent of global production. Meanwhile, China’s demand for lab-grown diamonds has grown significantly from 5 million yuan in 2014 to over 1.36 billion in 2022, further driving down prices for natural diamonds.

Likely Hong-kong gem show foot traffic is not representative of buying demographic and preferences of consumers from greater China, ASEAN et al..

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Their definition of diamonds includes mined from the earth.

By legal definition "diamond" means natural and untreated.
Any other form needs a qualifier.
In years or decades to come this will become the norm as it is with all other gems.
The exception is gems that normally undergo treatment: blue topaz, black onyx etc.
Special case are ruby, sapphire and emerald where +90% are treated and have been for centuries. Then the untreated moniker is added.