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Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point??

Blingalingaling

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi, PSer's! I have the opportunity to upgrade my 4.12 I-color SI2 Emerald Cut diamond to a 3.40 D-color SI2 Pear Shaped diamond. My jeweler sourced six pears for me to choose from and this stone was the clear favorite and it's eye clean! Although it is lighter in carat weight than my EC, the face-up dimensions are actually larger than my EC so I don't mind. The stone is extremely light and bright with lots of fire and brilliance, gives off a rainbow of colors and has minimal bowtie which is barely noticeable in all lighting. Upon viewing the GIA cert, I noticed that it had a feather towards the point of the stone. I knew I'd need to have it evaluated for durability by an independent appraiser, which I did yesterday.
I told the independent appraiser that I was mostly concerned about whether or not the feather goes to the girdle (which is medium-thick, faceted), whether it breaks the surface and if it poses a durability issue. The IA said it is a great SI2 and a beautiful stone, which made me feel that much more certain that I'd want to keep the stone. This diamond was already in a platinum setting when I got it. She cleaned it and examined it under the microscope and determined that the feather does break the surface and extend to the girdle although it doesn't extend into the pavilion and it doesn't wrap around the point. Her advice to me was to return this stone and keep looking if I am uncomfortable knowing that there is a greater potential for breakage.
Sad news for me, since I've already been wearing the stone for a week and hate the thought of giving it back, although I can do that and wear my old ring again. The jeweler I'm dealing with is the only person with whom I can do a trade, since I bought my EC from him. He said he'd keep looking next week, but that he'd already evaluated everything available on the market (from cutters who will do memo) that would fit the bill for me...
Would you keep the stone, halo it to protect the girdle (which is what I was planning to do anyway) or return it? How likely is it that I'll find another stone with similar attributes that doesn't have "an issue"? Is it more of a "mind-thing" with the feather or is it something I should avoid in my diamond selection? I need to return it tomorrow if I'm not keeping it because the cutter wants it back immediately. Please HELP!!!
 

Blingalingaling

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

img_5408.jpg
Here is a photo of the new pear shaped diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Unfortunately, I don;t see any easy answer here.
The reason is that most stones GIA graded SI2 with feathers are not a risk for that reason- but not all.
No one can tell by looking at a picture. The fact that the stone is in a ring also complicates assessment of the feather.
So, it's natural to say- avoid the stone.
BUT- there's other factors that may make that stone the very best choice.
Size, color, clarity and price.
It's relatively simple to find alternatives to a one carat diamond, exponentially more difficult in a 4ct.
BUT- please don't allow the pressure to make up your mind.
Yes, it's reasonable for the cutter to ask for a quick answer- but if you're in valid decision making phase, and may keep the stone, I feel sure they'll give you a few more days.
 

Gypsy

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Rockdiamond|1479503601|4100358 said:
Unfortunately, I don;t see any easy answer here.
The reason is that most stones GIA graded SI2 with feathers are not a risk for that reason- but not all.
No one can tell by looking at a picture. The fact that the stone is in a ring also complicates assessment of the feather.
So, it's natural to say- avoid the stone.
BUT- there's other factors that may make that stone the very best choice.
Size, color, clarity and price.
It's relatively simple to find alternatives to a one carat diamond, exponentially more difficult in a 4ct.
BUT- please don't allow the pressure to make up your mind.
Yes, it's reasonable for the cutter to ask for a quick answer- but if you're in valid decision making phase, and may keep the stone, I feel sure they'll give you a few more days.

This. Agree 100%.

There's no easy answer. It depends on how you wear your rings. I do not wear mine heavily at all and I baby them in general.

A four carat ring is going to take A LOT more knocks than my one carat though.

It's not a decision anyone can make for you. Just be sure to insure it well if you do get it. And that means a bullet proof appraisal that states that the diamond is eyeclean.
 

Sunstorm

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I agree that this is one of the most difficult questions to answer. I personally own a fancy color pear I love with a feather near the girdle and close to the surface not breaking it though and it also has an indented natural on the girdle. The feather was positioned by the setter in a way that it is between two prongs not taking a hit when you knock the ring on things. According to the setter it is not a good idea to prong such inclusions especially if not eye visible and especially if breaking the surface for the reason that when you knock on things you would put more pressure on the inclusions.

In most cases and generally speaking most such inclusions would not necessarily pose a higher risk of breaking than a stone with less and no such inclusions. That said some feathers can and do expand due to pressure, boiling, sometimes even an ultrasonic can pose a risk in rarer cases and there is just no way to know without inspecting the stone in person. And even then sometimes it is not possible to predict which feathers will expand further.

There are several questions to ask yourself, one is how you wear your rings. I do baby mine especially this one but it is also only around a carat. If I was to fall or have to grab on something I train myself to use my other hand. Better to wear such rings on your left hand since you are more likely to put heavier use on right hand rings. My answer is that I love my stone but I inspect it and take care of it. I am much more into babying them though than the average person and a friend of mine owns an I1 - I2 clarity mess stone that she knocks around and nothing has happened to it.

I would consult with a recommended appraiser and get approval to remove the stone. If it is recommended and you do decide to keep it, choose a really great craftsman to construct the ring. A halo is a great idea for such a stone. I am currently setting a stone with a high risk feather and it will go into a halo bezel. You do have to consider though that the setter may be inclined to not take liability for setting such a stone. Once set, it will likely be just fine.

If you love the stone and you get recommendation on it, insure it. If you are too nervous about this issue, you can keep looking and perhaps consider going up in clarity and down a bit in color. An E or F will face up icy white as well. But like others have stated in this size range it is not so easy if you have to stick to one jeweler.

I am curious what you find out and decide. I cannot tell you to keep this stone because first of all I cannot advise you on that here and also because every stone can pose a wearing risk and an SI2 with a surface reaching inclusion could pose a bit higher risk. It is ultimately your decision.

Do not allow to be pressured, make sure the seller is willing to work with you on more time and inspections allowed before you commit. Best of luck.
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

All GIA feathers break the surface, their teaching literature apparently says that feathers which do not should be plotted and named as crystals.
 

Alex T

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I have a pear which had a feather next to the girdle. I must have bashed it at some point & I chipped it out :shock:

The stone was fully inspected & the integrity wasn't affected in any way, in fact it's clarity grading improved technically, but I didn't want to mess with it & have it re-polished as I am a bit cautious & also, I didn't want to lose carat weight.

I would tread cautiously. My chip is so tiny you can't see it with the eye & need a 10x loop, but even so, it worries me & I am debating a new bezel setting to protect / hide it.
 

kenny

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

No.
I'd keep shopping.
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

As it is not near the point, and due to the view of many cutters who are a lot more experienced than consumers and say a diamond will never go through what it goes through on the diamond cutting wheel. Then unless the feather at the girdle is very large I think in this case I would buy it.

You can only buy from the one jeweller if upgrading, it is D color, it is a great cut for a pear too not just for a round, you may never get another like this from this jeweller. I would want to put a hold on it and give him say 2 months to find another and if he could not I would go with this one.

A lot of the hype about feathers is to try to get us to buy higher clarity goods at higher prices or for a more rare diamond which a D color is by the way.
 

Tourmaline

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Tourmaline|1479650970|4100793 said:
I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
Would probably be twice as much money though.
 

Tourmaline

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Pyramid|1479653054|4100796 said:
Tourmaline|1479650970|4100793 said:
I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
Would probably be twice as much money though.
It's the same number of steps. If those two color grades (E and D) are given to the clarity, it jumps from SI2 to VS1. If the OP is going down in carat weight, staying at SI2 seems unfortunate.
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I have been trying to post my responses to all of you this weekend, but for some reason, there seems to be a disconnect between my Iphone and Pricescope, as each time I press "submit", it erases the text and states that there's something incompatible with the software! I'm hoping that now that I'm on the PC where I wrote my original topic, I will be able to communicate back to you!

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to read about my dilemma and for your thoughtful responses! It's not an easy choice to make and, as you say, dealing with only one jeweler isn't the best way to obtain the get the best stone for your money. I could try to sell my stone myself and then I could buy from any other source I want to. I've done a little bit of investigating about going that route. I reached out to a few of the PS recommended dealers a few months ago. One was willing to consign my stone, the others weren't interested in doing a trade-up. My original jeweler has a brick and mortar store in my area as well as a large internet business. He is willing to take the stone back and get me something else without the hassle of waiting or dealing with the potential pitfalls of selling it myself. But I am limited to what he brings in for me and even then, it has to be from a cutter who will do memo. I can ask him to try and find me an F VS1. But I don't know and maybe you can tell me, in IRL, would an F VS1 (for example) be comparable in price to a D SI2? And then the question becomes, will that particular F VS1 be as beautiful a stone as the one I'm holding onto right now? (He allowed me a little more time to make up my mind, thankfully!!)

As of this moment, I'm leaning towards returning this stone to him and waiting for another stone to turn up without durability issues like this one has. I hope it won't take too long (you know how it is when you've decided to make that change and you want that instant gratification, :naughty: )

I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I'm so appreciative that you've posted! I know all of your "names" from having read so MANY of your posts and topics! And I respect your opinions and your ideas! So, thank you, my PS friends! I will keep you posted as my journey unfolds!
 

Tourmaline

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

We all have different tolerance levels for the 4 Cs. Like you, I want the biggest stone I can have for my budget, but I am willing to compromise on color, and NOT willing to compromise on clarity. It's a personal decision, and since the stone is for you to love, take all of our advice with a grain of sand. Don't let us talk you out of something you love.
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

This time around, I would like something very white, bright and sparkly with lots of color coming off of the diamond. I'm willing to compromise on clarity only if the stone is determined to be structurally sound and eye clean. I would feel more comfortable if the next stone is SI1 or better, but it depends on what kind of inclusions and where they are. I won't be willing to accept a stone without an exceptional cut, especially after having worn this stone for a week now. This stone is truly gorgeous but as much as I love it, I don't think I should keep it if I'll obsess about damaging it.

I do baby my rings, examine them frequently, I wear my diamond on my left hand and my diamonds are fully insured. But I have been wearing my engagement ring every day except for when I do housework, etc. and I want to continue to do so. My emerald has corners so I'm accustomed to being very careful with it, so I'm sure I will be equally as cautious with any other shape of stone. I want to wear it and enjoy it! =)
 

Rockinruby

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I think it's a good decision to keep looking. Otherwise you will worry about the feather constantly. :doh: Good luck with finding the next candidates! :appl: :appl: :appl:
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Thank you! I will run them by you before I make any definite decisions! =)
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Cool!
IMO, it might be smart to simply put this one in the "maybe" bin- give it back but let them know it's still a candidate.
If you can't come up with an alternative, see if it's still available.
With fancy shapes- especially large ones- there's times that a given stone is unbeatable in terms of appearance.
And let the insurance company do the worrying:)
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Tourmaline|1479736905|4101055 said:
Pyramid|1479653054|4100796 said:
Tourmaline|1479650970|4100793 said:
I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
Would probably be twice as much money though.
It's the same number of steps. If those two color grades (E and D) are given to the clarity, it jumps from SI2 to VS1. If the OP is going down in carat weight, staying at SI2 seems unfortunate.

Don't combinations of colours and clarity in large stones increase the price too though, is a F VS1 not at a premium because they are both higher rather than a D SI2 where the levels don't match as much, meaning higher and lower? The same way weight increases that 2 carat is more than a 2 x 1 carat, due to rarity?
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Tourmaline|1479736905|4101055 said:
Pyramid|1479653054|4100796 said:
Tourmaline|1479650970|4100793 said:
I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
Would probably be twice as much money though.
It's the same number of steps. If those two color grades (E and D) are given to the clarity, it jumps from SI2 to VS1. If the OP is going down in carat weight, staying at SI2 seems unfortunate.

Don't combinations of colours and clarity in large stones increase the price too though, is a F VS1 not at a premium because they are both higher rather than a D SI2 where the levels don't match as much, meaning higher and lower? The same way weight increases that 2 carat is more than a 2 x 1 carat, due to rarity?
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Tourmaline|1479736905|4101055 said:
Pyramid|1479653054|4100796 said:
Tourmaline|1479650970|4100793 said:
I would find an F VS1 to be a much more worthy upgrade than a D SI2.
Would probably be twice as much money though.
It's the same number of steps. If those two color grades (E and D) are given to the clarity, it jumps from SI2 to VS1. If the OP is going down in carat weight, staying at SI2 seems unfortunate.

Don't combinations of colours and clarity in large stones increase the price too though, is a F VS1 not at a premium because they are both higher rather than a D SI2 where the levels don't match as much, meaning higher and lower? The same way weight increases that 2 carat is more than a 2 x 1 carat, due to rarity?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

may we see the cert stone plots please, and any comments.
e.g. the feather may be the 4th thing listed = no biggy.
Also you could have the setting made with 5 prongs - 2 near the tip, and one just near the point but really not doing anything.
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Hi, Garry H!
Here is the GIA plot for the diamond. The feather is the second inclusion listed.

What do you all think now that you've seen this?

I had to return the stone to my jeweler yesterday, because the cutter wanted it back. :(( But in an email this morning, I asked him to tell the cutter that the stone is still in the running in case we don't find anything else that's comparable to it, as suggested.

If anyone has any other thoughts about this diamond now that you've seen the plot... or what my next move should be, I would greatly appreciate your input!

And thanks so much, again! =)
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Oh! And the "comments" on the GIA Cert are: "Pinpoints are not shown".

I would be interested to know if the price for a lower color/higher clarity stone would be equivalent in cost and whether or not the "rarity" issue is something that comes into play when you go down in color but up in clarity. Does anybody know the answer to Pyramid's question?

Alex T- I'm sorry about your stone chipping and I'm relieved to hear that it's hardly noticeable. I'm glad that you're still enjoying your beautiful stone!

Thank you, Rockdiamond, Gypsy, Tourmaline, Pyramid, Sunstorm, Kenny, Rockinruby, Alex T and Garry H!
 

pyramid

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Best to wait to see what Garry thinks.

My thoughts are just that it is not that near to the tip of the diamond. Is the girdle at the point
fairly thick or is it thin, can you get a photo under the loupe maybe for Garry or one of
the experts to look and judge? From what I read the crystal is the grade setting inclusion then
so the feather could be SI1 size MAYBE (of course I don't know, just that is the kind of thing
the expert jewellers would look for). Can you not put a hold on it until
Garry or one of the diamond jewellers here can comment further. Just what I would think of
doing myself that is all.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I can't answer for Garry- but I can say that as a professional, I would not be comfortable assessing any stone based on a GIA report....especially one that's this important.
What about using PS to find a great appraiser?
 

Blingalingaling

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Unfortunately, I no longer have the stone in my possession, so I can't get it to one of the PS appraisers at this point. I had to give the stone back within a very short time, I was working some of that time and couldn't make it into the City (I live in a suburb of New York). And I wouldn't have been able to mail it out and get it back in time to return it to the cutter.
So, I brought it to a well-known independent appraiser in my area, (who also happens to do work for the court system here), to have her assess the stone and give me her opinion. I didn't request a full report because I wasn't sure if I was keeping the stone. I don't know what portion of the girdle is "medium to thick" but no part of the girdle is "thin", if we go by what it says on the GIA Cert. I asked her for her opinion regarding the inclusions, the feather in particular, and to tell me in general what she thought about the stone.
She said that the feather is on the top portion of the stone, it doesn't wrap around the point and doesn't continue into the pavilion but that it does break the surface and it goes to the girdle. She said she knows I'm concerned that if I whack the stone, it could break at the point and she agreed that was a possibility due to the location of the feather. But, like me, she thought it was a beautiful diamond! At first, she said she didn't know why it was graded an SI2, but once she cleaned the stone and put it under the microscope to look more closely under the setting, she said the reason it's an SI2 is because of the feather.

:wall: I left there not feeling confident about any decision I'd make and so I started this post!!
 

dollyanjuli

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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Blingalingaling|1479846892|4101574 said:
Unfortunately, I no longer have the stone in my possession, so I can't get it to one of the PS appraisers at this point. I had to give the stone back within a very short time, I was working some of that time and couldn't make it into the City (I live in a suburb of New York). And I wouldn't have been able to mail it out and get it back in time to return it to the cutter.
So, I brought it to a well-known independent appraiser in my area, (who also happens to do work for the court system here), to have her assess the stone and give me her opinion. I didn't request a full report because I wasn't sure if I was keeping the stone. I don't know what portion of the girdle is "medium to thick" but no part of the girdle is "thin", if we go by what it says on the GIA Cert. I asked her for her opinion regarding the inclusions, the feather in particular, and to tell me in general what she thought about the stone.
She said that the feather is on the top portion of the stone, it doesn't wrap around the point and doesn't continue into the pavilion but that it does break the surface and it goes to the girdle. She said she knows I'm concerned that if I whack the stone, it could break at the point and she agreed that was a possibility due to the location of the feather. But, like me, she thought it was a beautiful diamond! At first, she said she didn't know why it was graded an SI2, but once she cleaned the stone and put it under the microscope to look more closely under the setting, she said the reason it's an SI2 is because of the feather.

:wall: I left there not feeling confident about any decision I'd make and so I started this post!!
Potentially silly question- if you love it so much, are you against bezeling the entire things to protect it and then putting a halo? Not sure if this will alleviate the issue entirely but I have seen many people successfully recommend something like this to add additional protection to a stone

Just a few examples:

12104996_1521104984847950_504553365_n.jpg

12104996_1521104984847950_504553365_0.jpg

de6696d506be5771b47e676bd97cf85c.jpg

758.jpg
 

Blingalingaling

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

BEAUTIFUL!!! Your ring is gorgeous!!! That might be a good way to go if I end up calling back the diamond! Thank you for sharing! I've always liked a bezel set ring!!! :D
 
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