Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point??

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I can't answer for Garry- but I can say that as a professional, I would not be comfortable assessing any stone based on a GIA report....especially one that's this important.
What about using PS to find a great appraiser?

I agree David, but if it listed say 4 inclusions - and the feather was the last listed and was not as close to the tip, it might have been OK to make a decision.
I like the idea of an appraiser, and I retract my 5 prong idea because of where the feather is is where a prong would have been. The bezel setting is a great solution too.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I can't answer for Garry- but I can say that as a professional, I would not be comfortable assessing any stone based on a GIA report....especially one that's this important.
What about using PS to find a great appraiser?

I agree David, but if it listed say 4 inclusions - and the feather was the last listed and was not as close to the tip, it might have been OK to make a decision.
I like the idea of an appraiser, and I retract my 5 prong idea because of where the feather is is where a prong would have been. The bezel setting is a great solution too.

Good point Garry- we can use the GIA report to basically eliminate the potential "threat" of a feather based on how it's plotted and listed.

IN terms of setting- again I'd need to inspect carefully in person- but sometimes a bezel can put more stress on the girdle and crown than a prong setting.
We seem to all be agreeing on one basic recommendation - a qualified appraiser

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I just wonder about these feather inclusions as I have been tied in knots worrying about them in the past too. I know there was
an article by Oldminer where he had discussed with cutters who said that a person would not put a diamond through what it
had already gone through in the cutting sometimes being heated to red or was it white heat. How many times do we hear that peoples diamonds have broken, never, and we never hear about them chipping because of a feather just that they chipped and even this I have only seen on this board and never heard it from anyone in real life. I know though that diamonds are smaller in the UK.

I just think that people are mixing up crack in a thin window pane with feather in diamond, which is a crack but not going through the
whole width of the diamond or it would be in two or more pieces. We never hear about crystals, although I read that crystals can cause strain and graining and this graining is strained also and they can come out the surface if a knot.

Why is the emphasis on feathers when there is no proof and not on crystals too, is it because more diamonds have crystals and vendors are trying to sell these?


GIA say unless the feathers/inclusions are I1 and lower i.e. I2, I3 there is no durability issue, so why do the experts here tell
people to avoid beautiful diamonds but GIA who are supposed to be the authority on diamonds and education say they are
okay if they are above I1 and if there was a durability issue the diamond would be graded at least I1.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I just wonder about these feather inclusions as I have been tied in knots worrying about them in the past too. I know there was
an article by Oldminer where he had discussed with cutters who said that a person would not put a diamond through what it
had already gone through in the cutting sometimes being heated to red or was it white heat. How many times do we hear that peoples diamonds have broken, never, and we never hear about them chipping because of a feather just that they chipped and even this I have only seen on this board and never heard it from anyone in real life. I know though that diamonds are smaller in the UK.

I just think that people are mixing up crack in a thin window pane with feather in diamond, which is a crack but not going through the
whole width of the diamond or it would be in two or more pieces. We never hear about crystals, although I read that crystals can cause strain and graining and this graining is strained also and they can come out the surface if a knot.

Why is the emphasis on feathers when there is no proof and not on crystals too, is it because more diamonds have crystals and vendors are trying to sell these?


GIA say unless the feathers/inclusions are I1 and lower i.e. I2, I3 there is no durability issue, so why do the experts here tell
people to avoid beautiful diamonds but GIA who are supposed to be the authority on diamonds and education say they are
okay if they are above I1 and if there was a durability issue the diamond would be graded at least I1.

I love your post Pyramid. You bring points I've thought were totally relevant for years.
I think part of the issue is- there's two types of experts that post here. One type is the more traditional tradesperson.
The other is what we call a prosumer.
In the second case we have well seasoned people that are DEFINITELY experts in the field of internet diamond buying. Which is truly a different activity than a trades-person would perform.
In the case of a feather, looking at it in person answers pretty much all questions. Which is what a trades-person would do.
But if one is advising internet shoppers in a world where many sites have over 50,000 diamonds listed, why not completely avoid any sort of doubt- and feathers.
Over time, even the experts posting here have been impacted by this entire discussion. Speaking from experience- going against a tide of well meaning prosumers is like swimming upstream.
This particular case is a great one to show how there's times that a consumer really does need to make the effort to get a second opinion, because there's not 50,000 4 ct pear shapes.

And it's also very important and true that the percentage of feathers in GIA graded SI and better goods that pose a structural risk is tiny.

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Thanks Rockdiamond. I really think this feather type discussion is a way of instigating online sales in the same way as cut is because local jewellers have nothing to say on the issue of durability and only speak of clarity in terms of eye cleanliness.

 

[Blingalingaling]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

That's a good point because I learned what feathers are from reading PriceScope! Admittedly, I've always been fascinated by diamonds and I have had a great interest in learning about them so I asked a lot of questions. Probably more than a jeweler would want to answer!! When we first started looking at stones, I went online and Googled specific details, which is how I stumbled upon PriceScope and I'm so glad I did!

Before PS my experience was limited to having stones sourced at local jewelry stores, where the salesperson presented a GIA cert which lists the inclusions. In my experience sales associates, even owners of jewelry stores, including high-end ones, don't explain to a customer in what way certain inclusions might impact the diamond aside from how visible they are. So the focus is on the clarity of the diamond, the size, the price and "do you like it?" As inclusions go, the word "feather" sounds so benign! Yet a feather can be a potentially "dangerous" inclusion. But a jeweler will not tell you that if he's trying to sell you a stone.

I'm not a novice at buying a diamond any more, but there's still a lot to learn. And buying can be an emotional experience, too, which can cloud your judgement. So it's great to be able to bounce your thoughts and ideas here and ask for advice from experts, prosumers and other diamond lovers! PriceScope is an invaluable tool and an unlimited source of information!

 

[Blingalingaling]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

tyty333- I hope you read this post and will chime in! (I don't think I can message you...) Being a pear shape diamond owner/wearer, one who loves and appreciates the shape and has had experience with selecting stones and advising others, would you purchase one with a feather towards the point? I have read your posts with interest and value your opinion!

Thanks!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

That's a good point because I learned what feathers are from reading PriceScope! Admittedly, I've always been fascinated by diamonds and I have had a great interest in learning about them so I asked a lot of questions. Probably more than a jeweler would want to answer!! When we first started looking at stones, I went online and Googled specific details, which is how I stumbled upon PriceScope and I'm so glad I did!

Before PS my experience was limited to having stones sourced at local jewelry stores, where the salesperson presented a GIA cert which lists the inclusions. In my experience sales associates, even owners of jewelry stores, including high-end ones, don't explain to a customer in what way certain inclusions might impact the diamond aside from how visible they are. So the focus is on the clarity of the diamond, the size, the price and "do you like it?" As inclusions go, the word "feather" sounds so benign! Yet a feather can be a potentially "dangerous" inclusion. But a jeweler will not tell you that if he's trying to sell you a stone.

I'm not a novice at buying a diamond any more, but there's still a lot to learn. And buying can be an emotional experience, too, which can cloud your judgement. So it's great to be able to bounce your thoughts and ideas here and ask for advice from experts, prosumers and other diamond lovers! PriceScope is an invaluable tool and an unlimited source of information!

Bling- if you read what I write before.....sometimes too much information, taken out of context can be problematic. Feathers are like that.
I totally agree with your assessment of how most salespeople handle this issue. Which makes it worse.
It's natural to feel that if there's a doubt, why move ahead with a major purchase? But if we stopped doing anything that had an element of doubt, we'd never get out of bed.
This translates into many brick and mortar sellers just avoiding the issue- while online sellers may be using this aspect to upsell needlessly.

SO_ I can say with great confidence, of doing this over 40 years- the possibility of a diamond experiencing a structural failure due to a GIA graded SI clarity feather is nil.
I can't ever recall that happening- and I've seen plenty of broken diamonds.
But I can also say that as a professional, it would be irresponsible to make any definitive claim about a diamond I've not had the opportunity to examine personally.

I think one great way to "thread the needle" and use the info you can learn here to your advantage is to vert things you've been told by sellers.
I still hope, for your sake, you can have the stone looked at by an impartial, knowledgeable appraiser

 

[Blingalingaling]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

Hi, Rockdiamond! Thank you so much for your interest, your advice and for sharing your experience, as I know you are extremely knowledgeable!
My jeweler allowed me to "try out" the new stone for a few days including a weekend. I left him my emerald cut stone in exchange for the new pear while I was deciding. I wanted to see the stone in various lighting and I also wanted to bring it to a very highly touted PS recommended craftsman/designer who I was seriously considering having make a halo setting for the new diamond. I was so excited to meet him and see his work in person, but when he examined the stone he said that the feather was in what he called a "dangerous location" and advised me to get it appraised by an independent appraiser.

So, I did take it to an independent appraiser. She concurred with the designer regarding the placement of the feather and although she agreed with you about the unlikelihood of the stone breaking, she said that since the feather is very close to the tip of the pear, which is the most vulnerable area of the diamond to begin with, if I were to whack it, it "could" be susceptible to breaking. Of course, the stone would be insured...but...would I want to have to worry about this possibility? After her evaluation I still wasn't sure what to do because it isn't a black or white situation. But I leaned on the cautious side since this was now the second person who, after seeing it, seemed to think the placement of the feather was more important than the severity of the inclusion itself. Does that make sense? I hope I'm not getting too long-winded in this post!!

My jeweler said that the cutter wanted his stone back and so I had to return it. But I told him that if we don't find anything comparable to that stone in beauty, I might want to call it back. He said that if the stone is still available at that time I certainly can do that. So far, nothing has turned up but it's only been a few days.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

You're so welcome Bling!!!
Lucky for me, I love what I do, and also talking about it.

Now that I've heard more....
I think the appraiser and I would likely be on the same page. I mean, a good whack might damage a flawless stone just as easily as an SI with a feather.
BUT if the person making the ring expressed concerns, that would give me a lot of pause. We have experiened breakage during setting. Again, never at the site of an SI graded feather, but stones have been damaged during setting on plenty of times over the years....

This thread does highlight some important issues for all of us I think.
People may tend to be overly cautious.
That's what insurance is for though......

No easy answer unfortunately.....

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I wonder of GIA describes durability as the same as breakage like broken in two etc because they have I1 as the lowest clarity to do this. To say wacking an SI1 could cause breakage is this not the same as saying wacking a VS1 could cause breakage too? I would rather agree with GIA they are the inventor of their own clarity grades and say durability concerns only begin with I1.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Help! Would You Buy A Pear With A Feather Near The Point

I wonder of GIA describes durability as the same as breakage like broken in two etc because they have I1 as the lowest clarity to do this. To say wacking an SI1 could cause breakage is this not the same as saying wacking a VS1 could cause breakage too? I would rather agree with GIA they are the inventor of their own clarity grades and say durability concerns only begin with I1.

Unfortunately I could write a small best selling book on what I believe GIA did and currently do wrong IMHO.
Most of those things are done to assist the smooth selling of diamonds.