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Help with setting for warm old european cut

fosterman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
5
Hello!

Thanks to a lot of help here in many existing threads, I have finally executed on a 1.7ct Q/R VS1 old european cut for an engagement ring.

7.23 - 7.43 x 5.10 mm. 46% table, 69.6% depth. I have not posted a video, but I think it is well cut and has a lot of light play.

As you can see from the stats, it's quite deep at over 69% and faces up smaller than its carat weight would indicate. She faces up warm but not overly yellow.

In terms of a setting, I'm thinking a simple yellow gold solitaire. Any views on whether this stone would be better served by platinum or white gold instead? Do you think the depth will put the stone too high in a solitaire? I have heard some people recommend bezels to accentuate warmer stones -- do you that applies here?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!


IMG_3889.PNG IMG_3888.PNG IMG_3887.PNG IMG_3885.PNG 2215001849.png
 

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Moonie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
291
It looks like a beautiful, chunky OEC!! Are you interested in playing up the color to make it more golden-y? I've seen the effect really change with warm OECs when in yellow gold vs platinum/white gold. I went with dual metals (white gold for prongs, yellow gold for shank and shoulders) but I've seen examples of glow-y warm OECs in beautiful yellow gold settings.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
1,233
If your stone is really nice and warm, I wonder if it will benefit from cupping in an open YG cup? I think that could make it look closer to a fancy light yellow or a fancy yellow! And then you could put it in a 2 tone setting (head and prongs in YG along with cup to boost the stone yellow; shank in WG to boost the contrast).

if you decide to not go for a cup I think unplated WG might look amazing, a creamy soft colour that will match the vanilla hues of your diamond!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
961
I love your diamond. I think it’s an older cut than OEC, it’s an old mine cushion. Nice! I think it depends on whether you want to play up the yellow tint or not. Yellow gold will enhance the yellow of your stone, regardless of a cup or not. Gorgeous find, Congratulations!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,525
@LightBright...The GIA report states that it is an Old European Brilliant
 

anangel

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
706
If you’re going to embrace the color, I’d consider looking at rose gold. I have a R colored AVR in 18 carat rose gold- it really makes it look like antique lace.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
961
@LightBright...The GIA report states that it is an Old European Brilliant

I’m not sure what this means. Old European Brilliant is a convention used by GIA. They do not tell you the type of cut. There is a difference in age between Old European Cuts and Old Mine Cushions or Antique Cushions. The latter being older cuts. This stone seems to me, Antique Cushion or Old Mine Cushion.
 

fosterman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
5
Thanks for the replies!

I certainly want to embrace the warmth for what it is and not try to downplay it and pretend its colorless, but I don't think the face of the stone is quite warm enough to play up as a fancy yellow with an open YG cup. I do think it naturally fits in the old world champaign/vanilla/cream realm.

I like the idea of a dual metals. Perhaps a YG band with unplated WG upper would strike the right balance between embracing the warmth but not overplaying it.

@LightBright Is the thinking behind the stone potentially being an older OMC that it has a thicker crown and larger cutlet than is typical of an OEC?
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
1,400
Here's a thread from someone looking for inspiration pictures of vintage-style yellow gold solitaires:


There's some options posted there that might tickle your fancy!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
961
Here’s an article from GIA on Old European Brilliant designation. https://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-pay
The parameters of their OEB designation are defined as a range:
“GIA identifies classic old European cuts using these criteria:
  • Table size: less than or equal to 53 percent
  • Crown angle: greater than or equal to 40 degrees
  • Lower half facet length: less than or equal to 60 percent
  • Culet size: slightly large or larger” (GIA)
As you can see from this range, there is a lot of room for cut variation. Their OEB range encompasses 170 plus years of diamond cutting, with all the evolving styles of cuts falling within their parameters.

The article I posted above collaborated with Al Gilbertson, an antique cut expert, who wrote a classic book illustrating that within the OEB category there are distinct cuts that reflect the evolution of hand cut diamonds to mechanically cut diamonds. In older diamonds, pre-1900 and earlier, the cutter maximized carat weight and left the stone to the maximum range of the diamond crystal itself. Hence a deeper stone with steep crown and pavilion. (Your stone’s girdle might encompass the actual skin of the diamond crystal in some places.) That’s why I think your stone is an older style that has some characteristics of OMC and some of OEC.
 

Moonie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
291
Thanks for the replies!

I certainly want to embrace the warmth for what it is and not try to downplay it and pretend its colorless, but I don't think the face of the stone is quite warm enough to play up as a fancy yellow with an open YG cup. I do think it naturally fits in the old world champaign/vanilla/cream realm.

I like the idea of a dual metals. Perhaps a YG band with unplated WG upper would strike the right balance between embracing the warmth but not overplaying it.

@LightBright Is the thinking behind the stone potentially being an older OMC that it has a thicker crown and larger cutlet than is typical of an OEC?

That's what I went with as well, WG prongs with YG band. I think a buttery, warmer YG would look really beautiful for a Q/R!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,525
I’m not sure what this means. Old European Brilliant is a convention used by GIA. They do not tell you the type of cut. There is a difference in age between Old European Cuts and Old Mine Cushions or Antique Cushions. The latter being older cuts. This stone seems to me, Antique Cushion or Old Mine Cushion.

This is per GIA but I know some stones may be somewhat subjective due to having qualities defined by both cuts (OEC and OMC) . I
guess that's why you see it as an OMC and I see it as an OEC.

Capture.PNG
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
961
This is per GIA but I know some stones may be somewhat subjective due to having qualities defined by both cuts (OEC and OMC) . I
guess that's why you see it as an OMC and I see it as an OEC.

Capture.PNG

This is very interesting, I haven’t seen this GIA cut definition sheet. I believe gem cut historians have not defined specific cut styles specifically enough. There are eras and geographical locations where certain cuts were in fashion and then evolved into other cuts. The antique cushion I believe is the hybrid between OMC and OEC. There’s really specific look to them. But just to throw a monkey wrench in there, some antique cushions have squarish outlines, but some have circular or oval outlines. Maybe Karl K can tell us how to define an antique cushion...

Here is one similar antique cushion
 
Last edited:

fosterman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
5
For anyone interested in the progression of the "old european" shapes over time, here is a video featuring Al Gilbertson of the GIA. The first 15 minutes are so are pretty interesting. Based on this, it seems that this stone probably fits into the c. 1900 more European vs American style cut (i.e., with a focus on preserving as much of the original crystal as possible).

 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
961
Great find Fosterman! Very interesting talk.

Have you decided on your setting direction yet? Do you have any photos of settings you like? Will you do a solitaire or a more complicated antique style ring? You might want to check out the CVB Jewelry or Erika Winters or Show Me your Antique Style threads for inspiration.
 

fosterman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
5
I met with Yekutiel at ID Jewelry over the weekend. After talking to him and testing the stone in different solitaries and in different lighting (rose gold, YG band with plat upper, all YG), we went with a simple rounded comfort fit 4-prong (claw) solitaire, fully 18k YG. Based on the warmth of the stone, it was pretty clear that going all YG was best for this particular stone.

It should be ready in the next few days, and I'll post pictures once I have it in hand! Below are some photos that we used for inspiration. The 18k YG we're using is very "golden" and buttery, more like the second photo below than the first, which to my eye makes a big difference when dealing with a warmer stone like this one.


IMG_3897.jpg

(via Jewels by Grace)

IMG_3901 2.jpg

(via Parris Jewelers)
 

Cerulean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
1,812
I met with Yekutiel at ID Jewelry over the weekend. After talking to him and testing the stone in different solitaries and in different lighting (rose gold, YG band with plat upper, all YG), we went with a simple rounded comfort fit 4-prong (claw) solitaire, fully 18k YG. Based on the warmth of the stone, it was pretty clear that going all YG was best for this particular stone.

It should be ready in the next few days, and I'll post pictures once I have it in hand! Below are some photos that we used for inspiration. The 18k YG we're using is very "golden" and buttery, more like the second photo below than the first, which to my eye makes a big difference when dealing with a warmer stone like this one.


IMG_3897.jpg

(via Jewels by Grace)

IMG_3901 2.jpg

(via Parris Jewelers)

I am so glad you went with all YG. It'll look so beautiful. I can't wait for you to share more pictures!
 

kgizo

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,959
Your stone is beautiful and can’t wait to see her in 18YG. Should be lovely.
 

Moonie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
291
Ooh yes I really love the antique feel of the warm buttery gold setting!! Excited to see it.
 

fosterman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
5
As promised, some (admittedly poor) photos of the final product. (BTW, I highly recommend Yekutiel at ID Jewelry — very helpful, straightforward, fair pricing, and I’m very pleased with the result on the setting.)

5A912E1F-592E-4256-B042-F9D4B5410685.jpeg 3E94E88D-D6CF-45EB-913B-71BA1DA455DF.jpeg 0425B2DE-E16D-4222-A433-3E017732BD81.jpeg 26EA6F6C-37E9-4F1B-AD15-6DA45AED0F05.jpeg 16F0554F-003D-4EA0-A77A-4CDF4D32D8A1.jpeg
 
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