Help with Platinum bands

[iridplat]

I've learned a great deal due to this forum, from new threads and old (some of them from 2005)

I am seeking a men's wedding band, and I've been nerding out pretty hard about alloys and manufacturing approaches. I'm pretty sure I know why I feel like a diva when I ask questions of the jeweler where I bought my lady's engagement ring. Consumers just don't typically want to know more about their Platinum ring.
Most ring-buyers don't care that Cobalt is an element, etc etc. So I'm "that guy" who is asking questions that jewelers who've been in the industry for 20 years don't know. Yes, I could work on finding a swiss-army-knife retailer, but I'd really just like to DIY my way through this as much as possible. I don't want to play telephone, and I don't want to wait for a salesperson to ask questions when I could be educating myself.

For various reasons, I want an Iridium alloy, and for durability, I'd like that to be 10% Ir, 90% Pt

Along the way, I've found out about die-struck jewelry, and after reading of its virtues (contrasted with cast rings), have been paying attention to how jewelry is made, watching Youtube videos, etc etc etc. It is fascinating stuff.

So I've been researching Jabel, who do die struck things, and who (i hear tell) work in the alloy I think I want. I found this video after talking with one of their people through email: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o4hS-xaQp0
FF to 9m 12sec, and they tell of 2 ways of making seamless wedding bands:
(a) extruded tubes cut to desired width, then resized to order, and
(b) metal blanks rolled and punched to size.

Here come my questions:

(1)
Would someone here with Platinum knowledge tell me if (or why) these two processes is better than a cast ring?

(2)
There is but one jeweler locally who deals in Jabel pieces. For all I know, there are more common manufacturers who create in 900 Platinum (10% Iridium)
Any manufacturer suggestions that would suit my demands?

(3)
Is there a better approach than the one I'm taking? This is a lot like shopping for a mattress... there's only so much reliable info you can find online about this kind of stuff.

 

[Niel]

i would report concern and have it moved over to rocky talky, youll get more get more responses this wat
just click it over on the right hand corner of your post

 

[iridplat]

will do. Thank you.

I think the question will be asked: "why do you want 900 platinum so badly?" and since that's a fair question, it's purely a bias. i have no practical reasons, only sentimental ones. I'm into elements and Iridium is fantastic.
- most of the Iridium on earth is in the core, molten
- the Iridium in the earth's crust is likely from meteors, including the one that got rid of the dinosaurs
- the only elements that are more dense are radioactive

I only want to have 1 ring, ever, and i want it shiny, silvery, and as heavy as possible.

 

[iridplat]

alloy snobs of the world.... unite!

 

[WillyDiamond]

I got my mens platinum wedding band at eweddingbands.com. Saved lots of money from the typical brick and mortor guys. It is 95% Plat, and 5% Iridium. If you call they can answer your alloy questions. Good luck.

WillyDiamond (formerly Bosie)

 

[LibbyLA]

Platinum isn't going to stay shiny. It develops a nice patina over time. It can be polished. (FWIW, I prefer platinum because of the weight and I don't mind the patina at all, so I'm not saying this to get you to consider something other than platinum, just want to make sure you realize that it will get scratched and won't stay shiny.)

liz

 

[diamondseeker2006]

alloy snobs of the world.... unite!

Yay! I am one, too! But it is for good reasons...you will have a more durable and shiny ring with some alloys over others!

I have both 90/10iridium and 95/5ruthenium and find them both to be great. I am familiar with Jabel and think die struck is a wonderful choice! And if they will make your ring in 90/10irid, that is perfect! The other choice I would personally consider are Tiffany platinum bands that are the very hard 95/5ruthenium, but since you prefer the 10irid, I think you are on the right track.

Your other option would be to have Victor Canera or Mark Morrell to make you a handforged 90/10 ring, which would also be very desirable but possibly more expensive than Jabel.

 

[iridplat]

I got my mens platinum wedding band at eweddingbands.com. Saved lots of money from the typical brick and mortor guys. It is 95% Plat, and 5% Iridium. If you call they can answer your alloy questions. Good luck.
WillyDiamond (formerly Bosie)

I love their prices, but (a) they deal in cast rings, and as mentioned I want to see wheter I might find a more unconventional construction, and (b) I only want a 10% iridium alloy. I'm willing to pay more than eweddingbands prices to get what I want. I suppose it's worth a phone call. I appreciate it.

Platinum isn't going to stay shiny. It develops a nice patina over time. It can be polished. (FWIW, I prefer platinum because of the weight and I don't mind the patina at all, so I'm not saying this to get you to consider something other than platinum, just want to make sure you realize that it will get scratched and won't stay shiny.)liz

Thanks, Liz. Yes, I did make that confusing, sorry about that. I love platinum and all of its quirks, especially the seasoning it takes on... I guess if I change my mind on that years from now, one of the appeals is that Pt doesn't lose material when it comes time to be polished.

alloy snobs of the world.... unite!

Yay! I am one, too! But it is for good reasons...you will have a more durable and shiny ring with some alloys over others!
I have both 90/10iridium and 95/5ruthenium and find them both to be great. I am familiar with Jabel and think die struck is a wonderful choice! And if they will make your ring in 90/10irid, that is perfect! The other choice I would personally consider are Tiffany platinum bands that are the very hard 95/5ruthenium, but since you prefer the 10irid, I think you are on the right track.
Your other option would be to have Victor Canera or Mark Morrell to make you a handforged 90/10 ring, which would also be very desirable but possibly more expensive than Jabel.

I appreciate the inputs... i had seen the name Mark Morrell, and visited his site. What I learned there, and considering his take on Pt alloys, led me to starting this thread. It may come to a phone call with him, but I want to make sure i've done my due diligence.
Looks like Victor Canera uses the alloy i'm after... thanks for the tip! bookmarked!

 

[iridplat]

Now that I look closer at the Victor Canera / Mark Morrell stuff, I think i need to focus elsewhere. In order for either of those gents to get to hammering out a plain band, they have to set aside their cash-cow work. I can't see it being the best option for me (both time-wise, and bottom-line-wise)

With that in mind, where can I turn? Who knows other leads I can chase, given my preferences?
I will continue working the Jabel angle... meanwhile, who knows designers, companies, artists who work in 90-10 alloy, but not by casting?

 

[Wednesday]

Van Craeynest does not cast and uses the 90 platinum/10 iridium alloy. They do not feature plain bands but you could call and ask if they would make you one. A few years ago, when the company was under different ownership, Larry Van Craeynest made me a plain platinum spacer to wear between my Van Craeynest engagement ring and wedding band. I wanted the alloy to be the same as my other rings (and I had a good experience with the company from previous purchases) so I ordered from them.

 

[iridplat]

I think it's also worth asking for opinions here on whether it's truly worth the extra money/effort/time to find someone who would cold forge a plain platinum band for me.

I've never owned something like this. So if it's going to be just as unstoppably great to own a CAST band, speak up! I'm a newb, and everything but the alloy is negotiable.

 

[iridplat]

appointment made with local Jabel retailer. I'll post here with what I find out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

appointment made with local Jabel retailer. I'll post here with what I find out.

Great! I really think Jabel may be your best bet for quality at a reasonable price. Hopefully they still make die-struck wedding bands.

 

[iridplat]

My interaction with the Jabel retailer (local jeweler)today was, ah, interesting.
Remember that I was referred to this retailer BY JABEL after emails outlining precisely what I'm after (including alloy, etc)

The jeweler told me (after talking to Jabel) that JABEL does not work with Iridium alloyed Platinum.
Nor do they any longer manufacture with the extrusion process pointed out in the Youtube video that the Jabel lady referred me to by email.

??????

So I'm back at square one, here.

SOMEONE POINT ME TO THE RINGMAKERS THAT WORK IN 90-10 IRIDPLAT

.. please.

 

[JulieN]

Ask Benchmark what they use.

 

[iridplat]

I spoke with Mark Morrell today by phone. He is looking into what's possible. He's a no-nonsense guy, really knows his stuff, and is happy to share a bit of his know-how.

I also spoke with Victor Canera, who will also help me look at options.

appointment made with local Jabel retailer. I'll post here with what I find out.

Great! I really think Jabel may be your best bet for quality at a reasonable price. Hopefully they still make die-struck wedding bands.

Jabel no longer uses 90-10 Pt/Ir alloy. They only use 5% Ruthenium alloy now.
It took a wild goose chase and an in-person visit to a retailer with a Jabel relationship to find that out, when the lady answering Jabel's emails could have found out at square one by asking someone at Jabel, but I guess we live and we learn.
I get the sense that they are no longer the company depicted in the youtube video I posted earlier in the thread ^^^^
So Jabel is not an option.

Van Craeynest does not cast and uses the 90 platinum/10 iridium alloy. They do not feature plain bands but you could call and ask if they would make you one. A few years ago, when the company was under different ownership, Larry Van Craeynest made me a plain platinum spacer to wear between my Van Craeynest engagement ring and wedding band. I wanted the alloy to be the same as my other rings (and I had a good experience with the company from previous purchases) so I ordered from them.

I contacted Van Craeynest today, and they asked many questions to make certain of what I'm after.
They are researching, and apparently the owner of the company is going to call me to discuss this week.
Also, the person i spoke with said that Van Craeynes was bought ~2yrs ago and have moved from LA to Redwood, CA. Larry was the former owner, and is now no longer involved.

Ask Benchmark what they use.

Thank you, I did that. 5% Ruthenium.
So Benchmark isn't an option.

 

[iridplat]

I spoke with Mark Morrell today by phone. He is looking into what's possible. He's a no-nonsense guy, really knows his stuff, and is happy to share a bit of his know-how.

Mark got back to me, and although the alloy is not a problem, it would be a cast ring.

 

[iridplat]

Victor Canera won my business.
He answered the phone when I called, got straight down to business, and has been exemplary with answering every one of my noob questions.

Here's a roundup of all of the leads I've been chasing, in pursuit of a simple ring:
I want a 90/10 plain men's band. 6mm. Domed. High-polish finish. Cold-worked (NOT CAST).

VAN CRAEYNEST:
they were able to do everything i wanted, except it would have been a 5mm.
This was because they don't make new dies, and the old dies they have only include a 5mm.

JABEL:
A poor consumer experience.
Unable to communicate what is/is not possible.
And then they put the poor retailer in a difficult position. Not good.
they may make some die-struck things, but I never was shown/told what they were by anyone informed.

MARK MORRELL:
Great guy, and I can tell it would be nice to work with him.
In the end, though, only able to make my ring by casting it.

VICTOR CANERA:
bingo.
Very prompt with all communication, and a straight-shooter.
He listened to me explain myself by phone, and after communicating the parameters, he had me a quote in under 24 hours.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, that certainly worked out well in the end! I consider Victor one of the top ring makers in the country, so you made an excellent choice! Can't wait to see it!

 

[WillyDiamond]

He OP, can you show us a picture of what you are looking for?

 

[iridplat]

He OP, can you show us a picture of what you are looking for?

I'm pretty sure all of these...

I want a 90/10
plain men's band.
6mm.
Domed.
High-polish finish.
Cold-worked (NOT CAST).

would look to the naked eye +/- 5% exactly the same

(not sure how image-uploads go on this forum, so I'm just going to post some links to rings fitting my description)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MqCGDOm0L._SX395_.jpg
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/bl...ding-ring-platinum-/WB36500600_main?$295_250$
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31p6M++IYuL.jpg
http://scene7.samsclub.com/is/image/samsclub/0040632278819_A?$img_size_211x208$

 

[Laila619]

I'm sure VC will do a great job.

Just FYI though, eweddingbands does not cast their rings...they state so right on their website. Nothing is cast.

 

[WillyDiamond]

He OP, can you show us a picture of what you are looking for?

I'm pretty sure all of these...

I want a 90/10
plain men's band.
6mm.
Domed.
High-polish finish.
Cold-worked (NOT CAST).

would look to the naked eye +/- 5% exactly the same

(not sure how image-uploads go on this forum, so I'm just going to post some links to rings fitting my description)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MqCGDOm0L._SX395_.jpg
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/bl...ding-ring-platinum-/WB36500600_main?$295_250$
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31p6M++IYuL.jpg
http://scene7.samsclub.com/is/image/samsclub/0040632278819_A?$img_size_211x208$

Thanks for the picture links, the ring is pretty common. Have you considered eweddingbands.com, their rings are die struck, but more plat in the rings 95 plat, 5 ridium (not spelled correctly), and I think you would save a boat load of money. Just a thought.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

He OP, can you show us a picture of what you are looking for?

I'm pretty sure all of these...

I want a 90/10
plain men's band.
6mm.
Domed.
High-polish finish.
Cold-worked (NOT CAST).

would look to the naked eye +/- 5% exactly the same

(not sure how image-uploads go on this forum, so I'm just going to post some links to rings fitting my description)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MqCGDOm0L._SX395_.jpg
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/bl...ding-ring-platinum-/WB36500600_main?$295_250$
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31p6M++IYuL.jpg
http://scene7.samsclub.com/is/image/samsclub/0040632278819_A?$img_size_211x208$

Thanks for the picture links, the ring is pretty common. Have you considered eweddingbands.com, their rings are die struck, but more plat in the rings 95 plat, 5 ridium (not spelled correctly), and I think you would save a boat load of money. Just a thought.

95plat/5iridium is the softest of the three alloy options and therefore scratches the most and turns gray the fastest. Die struck is great, but I'd only buy the 90/10iridium or 95/5ruthenium. I don't know why he only wanted 90/10, but the ruthenium alloy is the hardest.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

iridplat...I would definitely add "comfort-fit" band to your requests for your custom ring.

 

[WillyDiamond]

He OP, can you show us a picture of what you are looking for?

I'm pretty sure all of these...

I want a 90/10
plain men's band.
6mm.
Domed.
High-polish finish.
Cold-worked (NOT CAST).

would look to the naked eye +/- 5% exactly the same

(not sure how image-uploads go on this forum, so I'm just going to post some links to rings fitting my description)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MqCGDOm0L._SX395_.jpg
http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/bl...ding-ring-platinum-/WB36500600_main?$295_250$
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31p6M++IYuL.jpg
http://scene7.samsclub.com/is/image/samsclub/0040632278819_A?$img_size_211x208$

Thanks for the picture links, the ring is pretty common. Have you considered eweddingbands.com, their rings are die struck, but more plat in the rings 95 plat, 5 ridium (not spelled correctly), and I think you would save a boat load of money. Just a thought.

95plat/5iridium is the softest of the three alloy options and therefore scratches the most and turns gray the fastest. Die struck is great, but I'd only buy the 90/10iridium or 95/5ruthenium. I don't know why he only wanted 90/10, but the ruthenium alloy is the hardest.

Hey DS2006.....Here is the answer to your comment, this is from eweddingbands.om website:
Your platinum is 95% pure. What is the other 5%?
All e-Wedding Bands platinum bands are 95% pure platinum and 5% ruthenium. This particular platinum/ruthenium alloy combination -- generally referred to as PLAT or PT950 -- is the highest purity available in platinum bands. Platinum wedding bands made with ruthenium are harder and more durable than platinum wedding bands made with iridium. In addition, all of our platinum bands are made from the highest quality seamless tubing with the exception of a few of our Unique and hand-woven or braided styles

They use ruthenium. I am also confused why the OP wants the 90/10 combo.
For the record book, I am wearing a comfort fit, 4mm, plat (pt950) from eweddingbands.com bought in 2007, low domed version, and love it. It does not have the shine it had a few years ago, but I love how it has aged with that patima look.

 

[iridplat]

All e-Wedding Bands platinum bands are 95% pure platinum and 5% ruthenium. This particular platinum/ruthenium alloy combination -- generally referred to as PLAT or PT950 -- is the highest purity available in platinum bands.

Well not only is that incorrect, but it also belies the ignorance of the salesperson who wrote/spoke it.
(afaik, it's not impossible to make/buy/sell a 96% Platinum ring, or gasp, a 100% Platinum ring... it's just that they don't sell it. But i digress)

Ruthenium's density at room temp = 12.45 g/cm
Iridium's density at room temp = 22.56 g/cm
Platinum's density at room temp = 21.45 g/cm

Let's just call Iridium and Platinum 2x as dense as Ruthenium, to round off the numbers.

Now, ignoring properties (durability, malleability, etc), and keeping the volume of the ring constant, let's work this out:

If you straight-swapped the 5% sliver of iridium-weight from the ring, and put Ruthenium in its place, you suddenly go from 950 Plat to 975 plat. Because density.
So... to alloy a Pt ring with 5% Ruthenium, instead of 5% Iridium, you are displacing Platinum to get the Ruthenium weight up to 5%. Its volume takes up 2x the space of Plat or Iridium. You end up with a ring that *is* still "950 Plat", but weighs less, because it is less dense, by 5% or so.

So you end up with a Platinum ring that is LESS "pure", no matter what the dingbat sales rep at eweddingrings would tell you.
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'

I am also confused why the OP wants the 90/10 combo.

I explained fully in the 3rd post of this thread. Scroll up.

I think you would save a boat load of money.

The difference is not even close to the amount that you would think.
And certainly when you look at the price per ounce, Ru vs Ir... it's pretty clear to me where the value is. Ru alloys are popular because Ruthenium is cheap. It is, however, convenient to jewelry producers and sales people that there are some practical merits to its characteristics.
But to me it's no different than the Co/Cu alloys that were marketed as super-strong and durable, etc etc etc. Nevermind that 950 Plat made with Co/Cu gives you even less precious metal than Ruthenium.
Anyhow, i don't have an axe to grind, but I think you can see where my values are: Metal. As dense as man can make it.

I don't know why he only wanted 90/10, but the ruthenium alloy is the hardest.

Here's my 2nd post, from above:
I think the question will be asked: "why do you want 900 platinum so badly?" and since that's a fair question, it's purely a bias. i have no practical reasons, only sentimental ones. I'm into elements and Iridium is fantastic.
- most of the Iridium on earth is in the core, molten
- the Iridium in the earth's crust is likely from meteors, including the one that got rid of the dinosaurs
- the only elements that are more dense are radioactive

I only want to have 1 ring, ever, and i want it shiny, silvery, and as heavy as possible.

 

[iridplat]

I thought I should update everyone who likes to know outcomes (and maybe someone else will happen by sometime in the future, and this thread can help them)

VICTOR CANERA... I give him the highest recommendation possible.
I gave him my order, and about 10 days later I had a shiny one-off piece of 2 of the rarest metals there are. it's like a suitcase on my hand, it's so chunky. I love it.

Your other option would be to have Victor Canera ... make you a handforged 90/10 ring, which would also be very desirable but possibly more expensive than Jabel.

The price was well worth it. I sure wouldn't consider it outrageous/overpriced. Not at all! ... in fact, it cost less than I had thought it would, for sure.
Thank you, diamondseeker2006, for helping a noob stranger. Because of your recommendations, and the others in this thread, I certainly learned as much as I could have hoped to learn, and I was able to make an educated decision.

 

[fonzii]

I thought I should update everyone who likes to know outcomes (and maybe someone else will happen by sometime in the future, and this thread can help them)

VICTOR CANERA... I give him the highest recommendation possible.
I gave him my order, and about 10 days later I had a shiny one-off piece of 2 of the rarest metals there are. it's like a suitcase on my hand, it's so chunky. I love it.

This thread has helped me out alot. I too am thinking about the 6mm band from Victor Canera. Would you be able to post a pic or two of your band..? I would love to see the finished product I know its a simple band shape, but im keen on seeing how high the dome actually is. thanks