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Help with old inherited Sapphire

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Hi there,
I inherited a sapphire solitaire pendant from my fathers side of the family (who died when I was young so is super sentimental). My mother handed it down to me before she passed away.
She said it was old and large but flawed so not really worth anything more then sentimental value. I used to wear it a fair bit and people would always comment on it.
One day the setting broke and the stone fell out - I only noticed because I stepped on it!!!!
(Yes I know - not great)
Since then it has lived in a box waiting to be taken to a jeweller for the setting to be fixed.
(I really like the setting but don’t know if it can be repaired as one of the prongs is broken).
On inspection - the sapphire could be in better shape but I noticed how deep and cleanly it was cut and how brilliant the stone was out of the setting.
We weighed it and measured it and it came in at over 8cts.
(12x9x9) (weighs1.73gms).

Now here’s the thing I’m going to get help with. It has what looks to be clouds? One big one and one small one. I thought they were like bruises from the stone getting impacted but they aren’t.

I have tried my best to photograph them which seem to photograph better in low light.
In bright light you can’t see them at all.
I have identified that it has silk but can’t work out what the clouds/milky parts are and have googled it to death.
is it possible it’s impact damage?
or is this indicative of the type of Sapphire it is?

There is also a large black mark/scratch in the surface I thought was caused by the setting when it broke but have since found out that isn’t possible. ‍♀
Looking into getting a repolishing and a lab report but anything to work out if it’s worth the cost involved honestly.
Excuse my pathetic photography skills - I’m working on it.
I will include a pick of the silk under the scope as well.
Thankyou for any help you can offer.
I find a lot of conflicting information depending on where I look.
Thankyou for any advice or knowledge you can offer.
 

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dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
6,219
I am not an expert, however it is a lovely coloured stone, and big!

I could see some surface abrasions and believe it could benefit from a good polish, or even a recut due to its size.

The name Jerry Newman has been mentioned/recommended in CS section in the past for recut/polish of older CSs.

That's what I would do first, for the stone to be repolished or recut first to bring out its best qualities, before deciding how to set it.

You may wish to have it tested and certified by a reputable laboratory for CSs.

Due to its size, I would be inclined to set it as a bold cocktail ring.

Whatever you decide, enjoy and treasure this stone, and thanks for sharing.

DK :kiss2:
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,532
I think it’s lovely!
Coming from someone who has no opportunity for passed down items, lucky fortunate you! I’m envious.
I would think it is indeed possible to repair the setting, depending of if you can find someone willing ( and capable!) to do so, and what your budget is.
As for a polish and recut - I think that’s a great idea to investigate, after the stone has been identified by a lab. But still- if it were something other than natural, you wouldn’t be the first person in the world to reset, repolish or recut a synthetic or whatever it may be.
If you do go down the recut route - I know it’s personal preference and all - but if it matters to you - look into what type of faceting pattern the cutter you choose intends.
For me personally, I’d prefer tweaking the native cut/ Portuguese/mixed over a brilliant cut pavilion any day. Others here would of course disagree.
Hope you do investigate sending it off to a lab for identification and return with the news and whatever you decide to do next!
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
6,219
The reason I suggest for repolish/recut first before testing is because the stone has huge sentimental value regardless where it is a real Sapphire or not.

If it was mine, I would probably do away without the testing, recut it first, then set in a new setting more suited to my own style and taste, and would enjoy it without knowing whether it is real or not.

Personal preferences and all that.

DK :))
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,532
I understand. But wouldn’t the lapidary need to know what it is? I don’t know?
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
6,219
I understand. But wouldn’t the lapidary need to know what it is? I don’t know?
Some may be able to determine what it is if they have the right equipment. I believe Jeff White would certainly be able to tell, however, he may not be able to perform chemical testing himself.

DK :))
 

JackTrick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
186
Depending on where you're located, you may be able to find a local gemologist who could help you with verifying its identity (sapphire, natural, heating, etc).

Just to clarify, is that important to you? I'm a bit unsure of what you want to do with it :) Figure out appraisal of value and see if it's worth dumping some money in to to look pretty as possible? Fix it up to maintain the sentimental value?
 

Jeweltones

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
3
Hi there,
I inherited a sapphire solitaire pendant from my fathers side of the family (who died when I was young so is super sentimental). My mother handed it down to me before she passed away.
She said it was old and large but flawed so not really worth anything more then sentimental value. I used to wear it a fair bit and people would always comment on it.
One day the setting broke and the stone fell out - I only noticed because I stepped on it!!!!
(Yes I know - not great)
Since then it has lived in a box waiting to be taken to a jeweller for the setting to be fixed.
(I really like the setting but don’t know if it can be repaired as one of the prongs is broken).
On inspection - the sapphire could be in better shape but I noticed how deep and cleanly it was cut and how brilliant the stone was out of the setting.
We weighed it and measured it and it came in at over 8cts.
(12x9x9) (weighs1.73gms).

Now here’s the thing I’m going to get help with. It has what looks to be clouds? One big one and one small one. I thought they were like bruises from the stone getting impacted but they aren’t.

I have tried my best to photograph them which seem to photograph better in low light.
In bright light you can’t see them at all.
I have identified that it has silk but can’t work out what the clouds/milky parts are and have googled it to death.
is it possible it’s impact damage?
or is this indicative of the type of Sapphire it is?

There is also a large black mark/scratch in the surface I thought was caused by the setting when it broke but have since found out that isn’t possible. ‍♀
Looking into getting a repolishing and a lab report but anything to work out if it’s worth the cost involved honestly.
Excuse my pathetic photography skills - I’m working on it.
I will include a pick of the silk under the scope as well.
Thankyou for any help you can offer.
I find a lot of conflicting information depending on where I look.
Thankyou for any advice or knowledge you can offer.
I would highly recommend sending this to GIA for a Colored Stone Identification and possibly origin report.

The pictures are a bit hard to judge, but it looks like you have angular or straight color zoning, which leads me to think it is natural. The clouds could very well be silk (needles), which can help determine if it has been heated or not. For a stone of this size and sentimentality, I think it is definitely worth a report!
 

JackTrick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
186
Also! Out of curiosity, are there any other distinguishing marks on the metal of the pendant setting? Is it gold?
 

Eclectic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
21
Alright beautiful disaster, so many people have been sending me messages to over here to help ya out. I will help ya out as much as I can. First let me say OMG, it is fabulous! Secondly I agree with my girl Jeweltones that it is most likely a natural sapphire. I could not see the inclusion very well. If you look and it is just a black spot (some sort of crystal inclusion) then it really bodes well for a natural sapphire. If there is what looks like a halo of a crack around the crystal, then it is most likely heat treated. The only way to truly know is to send it to GIA. I suggest also doing an origin report from GIA too.

So with that covered, lets move on to the next part, cut. Due to the abrasion I would def at least recut to clean up the facets. Whether you want to totally recut the stone from its current deep cut is totally up to you. I personally would not change it signifigantly. One reason being is that you can put that bad boy back in the setting. Now do NOT put it back in the setting in its current condition. You need to take it to a reputable jeweler/goldsmith/ or platinum smith (I can't tell if platinum or white gold). to retip or totally redo the prongs, and resolder or replace the two jump rings.

I would do it in this order:
1. recut
2. send to GIA
3. take to jeweler to fix and reset
4. wear and love it <3
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,710
I would be very confident that it is not a lab created stone based on the zoning/silk. Any good colored stone person with a few simple tools can verify that it's a sapphire.
I would say it's worth thousands not hundreds. It has a lot of crown an pavilion depth, so it would be a good candidate for a recut, or at a minimum recut the crown to clean it up.

Do any recutting before sending it to a lab. If you don't care if it's heated or not, then there is really no need pay hundreds for a lab report unless you intend on selling it, but it sounds like that's not your intent.
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Depending on where you're located, you may be able to find a local gemologist who could help you with verifying its identity (sapphire, natural, heating, etc).

Just to clarify, is that important to you? I'm a bit unsure of what you want to do with it :) Figure out appraisal of value and see if it's worth dumping some money in to to look pretty as possible? Fix it up to maintain the sentimental value?
To be honest if it’s worth a lot of money I would consider selling it as I know my father wouldn’t want us to struggle finically with it sitting in a closet. But if it’s only worth a few thousand I would definitely keep it.
I also don’t want to spend $1000 getting a report on something that is only worth $2000 or $3000. So I’m trying to establish if it’s even worth bothering anyone about or paying for the valuation.
I would also like to have it insured if it’s worth a lot as I don’t trust myself with it.
I have another piece (an 18th century carved emerald bracelet) that I am looking at selling first as it came from my grandmothers side and has no sentimental element to it really.
I do like the idea that the marks identify the stone so it can never be switched out on me. Still trying to work out the clouds.
 

JackTrick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
186
Just for context, to send a stone of this size to GIA for a colored stone identification & origin report would cost $250 (iirc).

And I suspect that a reputable lab report is going to be best way for you to discern whether it's worth a few thousand or many many thousand.

Do you know the metal of the pendant setting? I was trying to tell if gold/platinum/etc.
 

Jeweltones

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
3
To be honest if it’s worth a lot of money I would consider selling it as I know my father wouldn’t want us to struggle finically with it sitting in a closet. But if it’s only worth a few thousand I would definitely keep it.
I also don’t want to spend $1000 getting a report on something that is only worth $2000 or $3000. So I’m trying to establish if it’s even worth bothering anyone about or paying for the valuation.
I would also like to have it insured if it’s worth a lot as I don’t trust myself with it.
I have another piece (an 18th century carved emerald bracelet) that I am looking at selling first as it came from my grandmothers side and has no sentimental element to it really.
I do like the idea that the marks identify the stone so it can never be switched out on me. Still trying to work out the clouds.
I think it is worth sending to a lab as-is if you are thinking of selling. If they determine it is unheated and/or from a desirable region like Kashmir, you can be looking at a major premium. For a $250 investment, you may find it is worth five figures.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,479
The pictures are a bit hard to judge, but it looks like you have angular or straight color zoning, which leads me to think it is natural. The clouds could very well be silk (needles), which can help determine if it has been heated or not. For a stone of this size and sentimentality, I think it is definitely worth a report!

I agree with above - gut feel by pictures alone is this is a natural sapphire, I would definitely get it re-cut & re-polished by an expert then verified by GIA, then perhaps recycle the setting metal to have a new one made for yourself with the sapphire set to enjoy and hand down to future generations!
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Just for context, to send a stone of this size to GIA for a colored stone identification & origin report would cost $250 (iirc).

And I suspect that a reputable lab report is going to be best way for you to discern whether it's worth a few thousand or many many thousand.

Do you know the metal of the pendant setting? I was trying to tell if gold/platinum/etc.
Oh $250 is a hell of a lot better then the $895 I was told it would cost - so Thankyou (shows I should make a call and not just believe what I was told).
The setting has no marks at all - I had always assumed it was silver but the thing is I can’t wear silver because it turns black on my skin but this never did.... so I thought maybe Platinum as it’s definitely not white gold. But after attempting to give it a clean (just with a toothbrush and toothpaste) I’m back to thinking it’s silver and can’t get the tarnish off the inside enough to be sure there is no mark in there.
I wish I could find the chain that went with it. I will have another look for it today.
Honestly I’m lucky I still have it after all of our moves and it being broken for so long it could have been easily misplaced..... realising now that it *could be worth* a lot more money then I ever would of thought.
If I had known I would have used it for my engagement ring and not made my man fork out $13,000 for a diamond ring! Probably best that I didn’t considering I never take it off and the stone being so deep wouldn’t be practical in a ring.
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Alright beautiful disaster, so many people have been sending me messages to over here to help ya out. I will help ya out as much as I can. First let me say OMG, it is fabulous! Secondly I agree with my girl Jeweltones that it is most likely a natural sapphire. I could not see the inclusion very well. If you look and it is just a black spot (some sort of crystal inclusion) then it really bodes well for a natural sapphire. If there is what looks like a halo of a crack around the crystal, then it is most likely heat treated. The only way to truly know is to send it to GIA. I suggest also doing an origin report from GIA too.

So with that covered, lets move on to the next part, cut. Due to the abrasion I would def at least recut to clean up the facets. Whether you want to totally recut the stone from its current deep cut is totally up to you. I personally would not change it signifigantly. One reason being is that you can put that bad boy back in the setting. Now do NOT put it back in the setting in its current condition. You need to take it to a reputable jeweler/goldsmith/ or platinum smith (I can't tell if platinum or white gold). to retip or totally redo the prongs, and resolder or replace the two jump rings.

I would do it in this order:
1. recut
2. send
Some good solid advice Thankyou . Do you think it’s worth the cost of doing this?
Thankyou so much for your time and expertise! - and Thankyou to the people who messaged you to help me out! What a wonderful community.
I will have a look into re-cutters in Sydney Australia as I know just from reading on here that there is a fine art to it.
I would love to have the original setting repaired and to keep it but knew it needed help and didn’t know where to start.
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Also, I beg of you. Please keep us updated. I find this stone incredibly lovely and charming, and I want to find out its story :)
Thankyou I definitely will - I have another mysterious piece I’m trying to get to the bottom of at the moment too -
(A carved emerald bracelet from the Moghal period - super old and super mysterious as my grandmother said it was a gift from a Middle-eastern Prince) - I have fallen down the rabbit hole and now have a new obsession with gems. **so I better work out how to use this forum properly through my phone pretty quick! Lols
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Oh goodness. Please post pictures of the emerald bracelet!
I need to get some daylight pictures of it outside - but it’s in a safe at the moment. It is full enameling on the reverse side.... rubies and Polki diamonds. Gold Kundan setting is a little damaged but not bad for its age. This one is definitely going to be sold. It’s a shared inheritance with my sister. A59951FD-4399-44C9-8EFC-0A9B2EB8A43A.jpeg
4653D7E0-F399-4F11-A163-09934273D0F7.jpeg BD65DF7D-53AA-43A2-925A-D88A9B19C595.jpeg B5CCDAB3-D137-4F0B-BF2B-E96CA7273A8B.jpeg 39120E96-E853-47DE-A488-09F277A0734A.jpeg B1EB8DB6-5F1A-42D3-9E3F-22DB29B66C8E.jpeg DA2A531A-BD40-4245-B4CD-183C32A87C13.jpeg
 

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Bluemuse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
85
Hi Beautiful-disaster!
That is one beautiful sapphire and such a special family momento!
Your sapphire reminds me of my own in terms of the inclusions, especially the clouds.
I suspect yours would also be Unheated, possibly Ceylon bc of the color, but I’m no expert so I’m not entirely sure.
The inclusions can create a special kind of magic when the light hits so I would not discount the stone for that reason alone.
I think it’s very common in untreated sapphires to one degree or another.

I love the oval shape and the depth means there’s the option of a recut should you choose to go that route. Mine is also 8 cts but of a much shallower cut so not a good candidate for recutting.
You’re getting a ton of great advice.
Good luck on your journey of preserving this special family treasure. Glad she wasn’t damaged or lost.
Here are a couple photos of mine showing the clouds. There’s one main one and then a few wispy ones around it. For me the inclusions are part of the charm.
983085E3-718D-4995-8B77-EE3728706C4F.jpeg

4B1D5692-536C-4541-BFAB-49EEE57D06FA.jpeg
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
Hi Beautiful-disaster!
That is one beautiful sapphire and such a special family momento!
Your sapphire reminds me of my own in terms of the inclusions, especially the clouds.
I suspect yours would also be Unheated, possibly Ceylon bc of the color, but I’m no expert so I’m not entirely sure.
The inclusions can create a special kind of magic when the light hits so I would not discount the stone for that reason alone.
I think it’s very common in untreated sapphires to one degree or another.

I love the oval shape and the depth means there’s the option of a recut should you choose to go that route. Mine is also 8 cts but of a much shallower cut so not a good candidate for recutting.
You’re getting a ton of great advice.
Good luck on your journey of preserving this special family treasure. Glad she wasn’t damaged or lost.
Here are a couple photos of mine showing the clouds. There’s one main one and then a few wispy ones around it. For me the inclusions are part of the charm.
983085E3-718D-4995-8B77-EE3728706C4F.jpeg

4B1D5692-536C-4541-BFAB-49EEE57D06FA.jpeg
Thankyou Bluemuse! Your stone certainly is stunning!!
I do love the lighter sapphires - that sparkle really sings to me. I am incredibly lucky I still have mine in my possession and it didn’t get lost or broken. My sister got my mothers emerald engagement ring which had a huge emerald cut stone that was built up on diamond steps - but after wacking it a few too many times my mother stopped wearing it.
After my sister had it a couple of years the emerald broke. Heartbreaking.
I do feel very lucky to even own a stone this lovely.
I have gotten some great advice here in where to start to give it the live it deserves and get it back into shape. Wish I could just give myself a cut and repolish and be all like new again! Lmao
 

Bluemuse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
85
Thankyou Bluemuse! Your stone certainly is stunning!!
I do love the lighter sapphires - that sparkle really sings to me. I am incredibly lucky I still have mine in my possession and it didn’t get lost or broken. My sister got my mothers emerald engagement ring which had a huge emerald cut stone that was built up on diamond steps - but after wacking it a few too many times my mother stopped wearing it.
After my sister had it a couple of years the emerald broke. Heartbreaking.
I do feel very lucky to even own a stone this lovely.
I have gotten some great advice here in where to start to give it the live it deserves and get it back into shape. Wish I could just give myself a cut and repolish and be all like new again! Lmao
Oh man, that’s so sad for your sister about your moms emerald cut diamond!
Yes, I would love that, a nice cut and polish to turn back the clock! I understand the nerves you are feeling about parting with your stone to go through the process of having it evaluated. It will be really interesting learning about exactly what you have in this special stone. Best of luck!
 

Jeweltones

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
3
I need to get some daylight pictures of it outside - but it’s in a safe at the moment. It is full enameling on the reverse side.... rubies and Polki diamonds. Gold Kundan setting is a little damaged but not bad for its age. This one is definitely going to be sold. It’s a shared inheritance with my sister. A59951FD-4399-44C9-8EFC-0A9B2EB8A43A.jpeg
4653D7E0-F399-4F11-A163-09934273D0F7.jpeg BD65DF7D-53AA-43A2-925A-D88A9B19C595.jpeg B5CCDAB3-D137-4F0B-BF2B-E96CA7273A8B.jpeg 39120E96-E853-47DE-A488-09F277A0734A.jpeg B1EB8DB6-5F1A-42D3-9E3F-22DB29B66C8E.jpeg DA2A531A-BD40-4245-B4CD-183C32A87C13.jpeg
If you are selling this, definitely do so through a reputable auction house. I saw items of this quality at our Mughal exhibit at GIA, and you definitely want to reach the collectors in order to get top dollar. Any paperwork or provenance you have will only add to the value.
 

Beautiful-disaster

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
105
If you are selling this, definitely do so through a reputable auction house. I saw items of this quality at our Mughal exhibit at GIA, and you definitely want to reach the collectors in order to get top dollar. Any paperwork or provenance you have will only add to the value.
Thankyou for your advice.
I did send the pictures to Southerby’s through an online inquiry form and they let me know that it is a price they would usually be interested in but that they don’t work out of Australia anymore.
They gave me a contact at Smith and Singer (I think it is) in Sydney but I figured we would have to pay for the valuation before this.
I realise this isn’t a piece you could sell overnight.
just trying to stop my sister having it broken up because some not so informed jeweller told her she was better to break it up because it would be too hard to find a buyer for it. So I did as much research aa possible but can’t find anything exactly like it.
 
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