Help with ASET and GIAXXX specs

[Karl_K]

Why would a diamond have to be a h&a near tolk to be super-ideal?
imho it doesn't, that is just the type that many super-ideal vendors carry.

 

[Athena10X]

I checked the BGB online inventory and see nothing below 1 ct right now.
However, I'd double check and give them a call and see if they have stones that have yet to get listed online.

I checked with BG and they rarely stock blues in the carat range that’s within my budget. In fact, they’ve historically only had 2 per their rep. WF excludes fluorescence in their ACA line and HPD did have one with fluorescence but not within budget and not going to break the bank. JA had few potential candidates until ideal scopes presented light leakage and they couldn’t guarantee H&A unless was in their “branded” line. And the list goes on...hence, virtual inventory.

Jonathan will be making and posting video of the .7 sometime today and because it is at a significant savings (almost $1500, practically a steal), I don’t think I’ll be too heartbroken over it just being ideal and not super-ideal. Will keep you posted.

 

[Wewechew]

I checked with BG and they rarely stock blues in the carat range that’s within my budget. In fact, they’ve historically only had 2 per their rep. WF excludes fluorescence in their ACA line and HPD did have one with fluorescence but not within budget and not going to break the bank. JA had few potential candidates until ideal scopes presented light leakage and they couldn’t guarantee H&A unless was in their “branded” line. And the list goes on...hence, virtual inventory.

Jonathan will be making and posting video of the .7 sometime today and because it is at a significant savings (almost $1500, practically a steal), I don’t think I’ll be too heartbroken over it just being ideal and not super-ideal. Will keep you posted.

Out of curiosity, which HPD was it?

 

[blueMA]

n fact, they’ve historically only had 2 per their rep.

Wow, had no idea it's so rare for them to carry that range. @sledge just recently procured diamond below a carat with great savings.

If the diamond checks out by Jonathan, then you're most likely in the clear. Just remember that 35.5 is pretty high crown geared for high colored fire and may look tiny bit less bright.
Be sure to read the section below to understand what you're getting. Some people have high preference for such diamond as well, even if it's not the most well balanced.
"Is a 35.5 degree crown angle too steep?"

 

[Karl_K]

"Is a 35.5 degree crown angle too steep?"

None of what he actual says there about a potential ASET applies to the stone in discussion here.
I also dispute that it will look less bright in diffused lighting.

 

[Karl_K]

Taking one diamond and using it to apply to all diamonds with a certain crown angle is like saying all blue mustangs are fast.
Even the one with a 100 horsepower 4 banger?

 

[blueMA]

I also dispute that it will look less bright in diffused lighting.

I do agree with the article from what I've seen. For an immediate example, even with the latest long comparison between the two ACAs the op ended up choosing the stone that looks slightly crisper and brighter in diffused lighting even with the slightest angle differences (one more for fire) between two very well cut ACAs?
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ned-out-to-be-h-i.245823/page-16#post-4479963

 

[Karl_K]

I do agree with the article from what I've seen. For an immediate example, even with the latest long comparison between the two ACAs the op ended up choosing the stone that looks slightly crisper and brighter in diffused lighting even with the slightest angle differences (one more for fire) between two very well cut ACAs?
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ned-out-to-be-h-i.245823/page-16#post-4479963

I did not say there were not difference between diamonds but to automatically assume all diamonds with a 35.5 degree crown is deficient in defused lighting is wrong.

 

[blueMA]

I did not say there were not difference between diamonds but to automatically assume a diamond with a 35.5 degree crown is deficient in defused lighting is wrong.

No one said all 35.5 are deficient. But the op does need to understand that the 35.5 crown is indeed on the higher side of what's preferred for better balanced stone.

 

[Athena10X]

These ideal scope images are for another stone I found of similar size. Although I prefer ASET, light performance looks promising; however, the H&A view presents a few flaws. Here are the pertinent specs: depth: 61.5%, table: 56%, crown angle: 35, pavilion angle: 40.6. Thoughts?

 

[blueMA]

It's a pretty good stone. It's not as well cut as the stone you originally posted.
Look at the hearts - they're varied in size, with clefts, with varied lgh and Vs.
That's being super critical, but I do like the angle combo.

If you look at that video I posted earlier at 1:30, you'll see why I don't trust ASET. It's just an elimination tool. You could have two ASET that look virtually the same, but with very different actual real life performance.

 

[Athena10X]

Out of curiosity, which HPD was it?

I apologize but I didn’t jot down the stock number as I only wanted to focus on diamonds that were within my budget. Unfortunately, HPD doesn’t include fluorescence as a filter so I had to manually check every link. Sometimes it pains me to window shop, which is why I rarely do it unless it’s for something I know I’ll be able to get soon and seeing it helps me realize that goal

 

[Athena10X]

It's a pretty good stone. It's not as well cut as the stone you originally posted.
Look at the hearts - they're varied in size, with clefts, with varied lgh and Vs.
That's being super critical, but I do like the angle combo.

If you look at that video I posted earlier at 1:30, you'll see why I don't trust ASET. It's just an elimination tool. You could have two ASET that look virtually the same, but with very different actual real life performance.

I did watch the video and it was very informative! I was just hoping to source another viable diamond for side to side comparison, but I think you’re right about the original one being of better caliber than this latest inquiry. Not worth paying for shipping to bring it in.

Per the list I posted, there are options based on certs alone, but only a fraction have images available upon request, and then amongst those, the potential contenders dwindle considerably.

 

[blueMA]

I did watch the video and it was very informative! I was just hoping to source another viable diamond for side to side comparison, but I think you’re right about the original one being of better caliber than this latest inquiry. Not worth paying for shipping to bring it in.

Per the list I posted, there are options based on certs alone, but only a fraction have images available upon request, and then amongst those, the potential contenders dwindle considerably.

I originally thought you mentioned that there weren't much $ discount off super ideals, but your later post said you're getting 1,500 off comparable superideals - if that's the case, I think that's great and worth pursuing the stone. I just wanted you to understand and make best informed decision, because we see so many buyer's remorse here on PS and don't want you falling a victim.

Also, if you want a mind cleanliness, ask Jonathan if he could make a video of the stone next to around 34.5/40.8 (balanced) superideal stone, and if you still like the side-by-side performance, then that's all that matters.

Just remember, nothing compares to choosing your stone in person. All the angles and stats could look right over the Internet, but that doesn't always translate to real life performance.

 

[Athena10X]

Also, if you want a mind cleanliness, ask Jonathan if he could make a video of the stone next to around 34.5/40.8 (balanced) superideal stone, and if you still like the side-by-side performance, then that's all that matters.

That’s an awesome idea! The discount in getting a non-branded, at least through concierge, diminishes with the number of stones brought in to assess, since shipping fees get passed on to consumer via final price of stone. Business has to recoup some of that money to remain profitable. So, I’m doing my part by research online and vetting certificates manually.

 

[sledge]

Wow, had no idea it's so rare for them to carry that range. @sledge just recently procured diamond below a carat with great savings.

Indeed, 0.867ct H VS2 w/ MBF @ approx $4,800.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...0.867-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104098623002

57.9 table, 60.1 depth, 33.9 crown (14.1 height), 40.7 pavilion (42.9 depth), 76 LGF & 48 stars

Because of the large table and shallow crown, it sizes closer to a 0.90+ carat stone at 6.20mm. I know the proportions favor white light return, but it still throws lots of fire. She constantly gets compliments.

Also, I learned after the fact she has a higher color acuity than originally anticipated. So she sees tint in the H more easily than myself and I feel I am critical. Thankfully she isn't bothered by it. However, I feel those proportions help provide a brighter/whiter stone than the small table and steep crown combos that have since stolen my heart.

Working with BGD was a pleasure. I have no regrets about buying Blue as the fluor is a non-issue for me, and I enjoy the price discount. Many say fluor whitens the stone but I am of the opinion if it does, then it's very minimal and only under certain circumstances. So I wouldn't buy a fluor stone to help boost color preference.

FYI, if you choose to shop BGD Blues, you need to understand they are cut on the same lines as the BGD Signature stones; however, the Signature stones goes through some additional quality control metrics. Thus it's important to carefully analyze the ASET, idealscope and hearts images. By default, BGD doesn't post hearts images -- you have to request and they will send to you.

Taking one diamond and using it to apply to all diamonds with a certain crown angle is like saying all blue mustangs are fast.
Even the one with a 100 horsepower 4 banger?

Now we're talking @Karl_K. Not a Ford guy, but for the '67 GT500 I make an exception....

That said, Turbo 4 cylinder....FTMFW!

 

[blueMA]

While you're waiting - you seem like an intelligent person interested in all pertinent detail.
Since this article directly relates to the stone you're purchasing. be sure to read under the "Fire" section.
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/character-diamond/

"What I am talking about is the difference between a 34/41 CA/PA, a 34.5/40.8 CA/PA, and a 35/40.6 CA/PA. A diamond with a 34/41 CA/PA is more optimized for brightness and one with a 35/40.6 CA/PA is more optimized for fire. The 34.5/40.8 CA/PA is the most balanced in terms of brightness and fire."

Also, read about FIC vs BIC
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

 

[sledge]

While you're waiting - you seem like an intelligent person interested in all pertinent detail.
Since this article directly relates to the stone you're purchasing. be sure to read under the "Fire" section.
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/character-diamond/

"What I am talking about is the difference between a 34/41 CA/PA, a 34.5/40.8 CA/PA, and a 35/40.6 CA/PA. A diamond with a 34/41 CA/PA is more optimized for brightness and one with a 35/40.6 CA/PA is more optimized for fire. The 34.5/40.8 CA/PA is the most balanced in terms of brightness and fire."

Also, read about FIC vs BIC
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

A few threads back didn't you say you were seeking a 35/41 combo when searching? What was your thoughts there? That intrigued me as I don't see that often. And as you eluded, things get nasty at 41.2.

 

[Evian]

I don't know about 400. I've never heard of any concrete numbers. But yes, there are a multitude of cutters who can cut a diamond with ideal proportions and perfect symmetry. Honestly, any skilled cutter can do it. It just takes more time to cut a diamond to exacting standards, and there is usually more loss of rough, so most cutters will usually not take the time to do so when the target market for their cut stones is general diamond retailers. In such cases, cutting within the rather broad confines of the GIA excellent grade is perfectly acceptable.

But it's not like there is some sort of trade secret to cutting a SuperIdeal diamond, tucked away in the secret vaults of the SuperIdeal vendors only to be shared with their select guild of cutters, who must take an oath of secrecy prior to learning the craft with failure to comply resulting in death. Actually, WF, BGD, and VC all source their diamonds from multiple cutting houses. CBI is the only branded SuperIdeal diamond where all of the cut stones originate from a single cutting house.

There are plenty of well cut diamonds that make their way out onto the open market. You just need to be slightly more diligent in your search to find one. You can obviously ask for help here on PS and the regular posters can help to identify a nice diamond for you. Alternatively, you can use this new concierge service that Rhino has set up. I'm excited to see him getting back into the game of sourcing MRBs. His sourcing and selection of GIA-graded MRBs was superb while he was at Good Old Gold, and I was a saddened to see him leave to focus on old cuts at August Vintage (although happy for him that he started his own business). Happy to hear he'll be sourcing both old cuts and new cuts now.

I would think Brian the cutter would source his own stones. Interesting.

 

[Karl_K]

"What I am talking about is the difference between a 34/41 CA/PA, a 34.5/40.8 CA/PA, and a 35/40.6 CA/PA. A diamond with a 34/41 CA/PA is more optimized for brightness and one with a 35/40.6 CA/PA is more optimized for fire. The 34.5/40.8 CA/PA is the most balanced in terms of brightness and fire."

Another opinion masquerading as facts.

 

[blueMA]

A few threads back didn't you say you were seeking a 35/41 combo when searching? What was your thoughts there? That intrigued me as I don't see that often. And as you eluded, things get nasty at 41.2.

no, 34/41, with 80lgh - I love em, with no obstruction issues and super bright and sparkly.
Yes you won't see that often and never carried by superideal vendors unless you ask for a custom cut, and most of the stones with that combo are poor. That why I had to look for several months.

 

[Karl_K]

When Garry and myself talk about a stone leaning more towards fire or brightness we are not talking about them being deficient in either we are talking about over a wide range of lighting one will tend to show fire or brightness more than another.
Not the overall quality of either in lighting strongly favoring that type of light return.
That is why a BIC can get excellent in fire on the HCA.

 

[Karl_K]

no, 34/41, with 80lgh - I love em, with no obstruction issues and super bright and sparkly.
Yes you won't see that often and never carried by superideal vendors unless you ask for a custom cut, and most of the stones with that combo are poor. That why I had to look for several months.

I am a fan of that combination as well when tightly cut with tables in the 54-56 range. They love long stars also 55-60.
They do not tolerate painting or digging well at all.
At one time I would have said it was the best combo until I learned that there is no one best combo.
To my eyes they were super well balanced and there was at one time a cutter cutting a bunch of them.
Sadly De Beers put them out of business.

 

[blueMA]

I am a fan of that combination as well when tightly cut. They love long stars also 55-60.
They do not tolerate painting or digging well at all.
At one time I would have said it was the best combo until I learned that there is no one best combo.
To my eyes they were super well balanced and there was at one time a cutting cutting a bunch of them.
Sadly De Beers put them out of business.

I agree. There are many different flavors and personal preference that gears towards one vs another.
I love OEC under certain lighting for that reason, and why I have a collection of diamonds in all proportions. I like varieties.

 

[sledge]

no, 34/41, with 80lgh - I love em, with no obstruction issues and super bright and sparkly.
Yes you won't see that often and never carried by superideal vendors unless you ask for a custom cut, and most of the stones with that combo are poor. That why I had to look for several months.

Ah, makes more sense @ 34/41. I've seen several 34/40.8 or 34/40.9 so that isn't too far off the path. When you consider there are 8 actual crowns and pavilions that show as an averaged value on a GIA/AGS cert, I'd think staying at 40.8 or 40.9 may be wise. With a reported (averaged/rounded) 41 you risk hitting at, or above, 41.2 on individual pavilion facets which is why I'm guessing you were having a hard time finding a stone.

And your eyes could detect and found preference to a 34/41 over a 34/40.9 or 34/40.8? With the assumption all other attributes were the same. Obviously you see something that that makes the frustration and risk of finding one worthwhile.

I do imagine it was a tough find. Other super ideal vendors don't publish their specifications but below is a screen cap of ACA specifications. Notice it says stones with superb performance that exhibit minor variances may be included as well.

Also, just curious who you talked to that agreed to a specific angle combo. There was another thread awhile back and WF indicated they wouldn't guarantee a specific angle.

 

[blueMA]

And your eyes could detect and found preference to a 34/41 over a 34/40.9 or 34/40.8?

Yes, but my visual acuity is apparently above normal.
I'm one of few who could spot a diamond vs stimulants at a glance, despite several PS threads arguing it's impossible.

 

[sledge]

Yes, but my visual acuity is apparently above normal.
I'm one of few who could spot a diamond vs stimulants at a glance, despite several PS threads arguing it's impossible.

I understand. I enjoy looking at videos and comparing stones with various proportions. IMO, you can see differences within super ideal cuts based on proportions. I've also learned this angers some PS folks as they consider the differences too minor to detect and/or of minor consideration. However, when you are selecting amongst the cream of the crop it's the small differences that get you over the hump.

 

[Athena10X]

Jonathan uploaded the video. It is a beauty with tons of fire and life!!! Unfortunately, UV not working to showcase fluorescence, but guaranteed medium. I think we have a winner???

 

[TreeScientist]

That's one heck of a diamond! Beautiful performance in all lighting. Well done @Rhino

 

[Athena10X]

RIP my .63, G, VS2 CBI . I have found another to fill the gaping hole you left in my heart when I lost you. You’ll be missed, but never forgotten.