Help! Tell me about this antique asscher - KarlK, DiamondSeeker, others? thank you!

[sunandsky]

It appears more like a square Emerald Cut....not an antique Asscher...to my eyes.
Still, a pretty stone. Just not “Asscher-esque”.

Agreed. I dont think theres a ton of consistency in these terms. I like emeralds as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It appears more like a square Emerald Cut....not an antique Asscher...to my eyes.
Still, a pretty stone. Just not “Asscher-esque”.

Oh no! I wasn't recommending the JA stone if that's what you were referring to. I was trying to find the closest step cut to the specs (weight, color, clarity) of the stone she is looking at for a price comp! For example, my antique asscher was originally found in the virtual inventory with other emerald cuts or asschers, and it was originally priced just like other modern stones. It was sold again for an amount higher than that due to the antique value and excellent cut. A rare or special stone might carry a premium, but this is the best way for us to get a base price comp.

 

[EvaEvans]

3.99 H SI2 at JA for $39810
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/3.99-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-sku-826104
This JA stone has amazing cut and looks like fireball!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ha, ok that makes sense - gorgeous. What do you think of the stone overall? A lower price is apparently not an option.

Are you asking me about the 3.65 in the CVB setting or the one you currently have in hand?

The 3.65 is a gorgeous stone in a nice color and clarity. I believe it's table is not quite as small as some of the others, but it is really a lovely cut.

The one you have looks nice, but I am not in love with the way the windmills meet (or don't meet) in the center. I'd want to be sure the dark side facets do not look dark most of the time. I like it and would not say not to buy it, but I my personal preference is a more antique cut like the one I have with the windmills meeting at the open culet. Whether one would ever come along with the specs you prefer in the price range you want is another question. My tagline used to be "when in doubt, don't", and that is usually my advice to myself when I am uncertain!

 

[valeria101]

.

Random: you'd think that interesting cut starts at 100K ! WWW (Deco outline, older school proportions)

...

 

[valeria101]

...

Did I manage to make this one look like a bargain ?

WWW

 

[valeria101]

...

Worse ,-( WWW - a clearly rectangular (1:45 L/W), clearly modern EC - with a 58% table & wide, slanted cut corners. There are no corner facets on the first step (near the culet), as in most modern step cuts.

The wide, slanted corner factes might as well be what feels old school to me - probably taste more than history ...

 

[sunandsky]

3.99 H SI2 at JA for $39810
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/3.99-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-sku-826104
This JA stone has amazing cut and looks like fireball!

Thank you! I appreciate seeing some other options. It's lovely, though I think I'm looking for something a little more elongated.

...
Did I manage to make this one look like a bargain ?
WWW

Ha! I was hoping you'd find some fun stuff. I still secretly want that that super-long, super-skinny emerald from the other thread.

Are you asking me about the 3.65 in the CVB setting or the one you currently have in hand?

The 3.65 is a gorgeous stone in a nice color and clarity. I believe it's table is not quite as small as some of the others, but it is really a lovely cut.

The one you have looks nice, but I am not in love with the way the windmills meet (or don't meet) in the center. I'd want to be sure the dark side facets do not look dark most of the time. I like it and would not say not to buy it, but I my personal preference is a more antique cut like the one I have with the windmills meeting at the open culet. Whether one would ever come along with the specs you prefer in the price range you want is another question. My tagline used to be "when in doubt, don't", and that is usually my advice to myself when I am uncertain!

thank you! I was asking about the one I have now, but I appreciate hearing about both.

 

[valeria101]

I still secretly want that that super-long, super-skinny emerald from the other thread.

Me too ...

GemConcepts needs a diamond hedge fund ! (for the baffling risks)

 

[MarionC]

This may be the stupidist post on PS today, but although I know you are looking for a much larger stone, the incredible asscher that Yoram is offering would, with two of his equally wonderful side stones, be blindingly beautiful.
I know if I were looking at 3+ carat asschers I would probably not be considering a 2.5, but Yoram’s stones are so “above & beyond”.
My silly two cents, but had to put out it out there.

 

[scarsmum]

I don’t think it’s as good as you could eventually get. Aset is poor, it does show dark on each long side and I’m not a fan of the culet. It is a fair price for the stats. Jewels by Lauren has a nice looking K if you could go down in color. I suspect if it was just right you would just know and it would have taken your breath away.

 

[sunandsky]

This may be the stupidist post on PS today, but although I know you are looking for a much larger stone, the incredible asscher that Yoram is offering would, with two of his equally wonderful side stones, be blindingly beautiful.
I know if I were looking at 3+ carat asschers I would probably not be considering a 2.5, but Yoram’s stones are so “above & beyond”.
My silly two cents, but had to put out it out there.
Hi Jimmianne, thanks very much for weighing in! Not silly at all; i's a great thought. The d/vvs2 is probably overkill for me (in budget as well as beauty!), and have a strong preference for his elongated Asschers - if it was a 2.5 I/vs2 elongated I think it would be a contender!

Me too ...

GemConcepts needs a diamond hedge fund ! (for the baffling risks)

Yes exactly! We'd take the return in diamonds. Or he needs to rent them ....

I don’t think it’s as good as you could eventually get. Aset is poor, it does show dark on each long side and I’m not a fan of the culet. It is a fair price for the stats. Jewels by Lauren has a nice looking K if you could go down in color. I suspect if it was just right you would just know and it would have taken your breath away.

Hi Scar's mom, thanks very much for weighing in. A few people have mentioned the culet - I'm not seeing the specific issue, can you say a bit more just for my education?

 

[JmeeMrie]

Hi! Long time lurker (since 2008!) here, and deeply thankful for all the amazing people and content on this forum. I've been looking for an antique emerald or asscher cut casually for a while, and have seriously considered three. I have one in my possession right now from Jewels by Grace and need to decide whether to keep it. Normally I'm pretty decisive if I can look at something for a few days, but I haven't had a chance to look at it (we just moved, hosted xmas and our pipes just burst and Grace needs an answer today) so am a little stressed! @diamondseeker2006, @valeria101, @Karl_K and any others, I'd be honored to have some expert help here!

What I'm looking for:
- doesn't need to be an actual antique stone, I just prefer broad facets, lots of fire, with a high crown and small table
- crisp facets
- I'm not fussy about clarity as long as it isn't distracting when you look it or interfere with light performance
- some personality - the appeal in diamonds to me is looking at them, which is why I like crisp facets and fire, and I only mount them in rings
- no bowtie
- in a perfect world, 4-4.5 carat, I/J color

I'm only in the US occasionally so don't have the ability to see a ton of stones easily, though am in NYC in a few weeks. I've tried Yoram for a custom cut but he said they're only doing custom cuts quite slowly, and he'll keep an eye out for rough, which would likely be 4-4.5, k/l and vs-si (could be a good option but doesn't seem like it will happen soon). Adam at OWD is looking but doesn't come across things like this often.

Info here:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/4-45ct-vintage-emerald-cut-diamond-gia-i-si2
https://www.gia.edu/sites/Satellite?reportno=2185013817&c=Page&childpagename=GIA/Page/ReportCheck&pagename=GIA/Wrapper&cid=1495237976866&encryptedString=BD9399815A258E70B84BD4EAC14BBD6B&qr=null

What I like:
- the color is lovely
- in budget - I'm having a hard time getting over 40K
- my sweet spot for color/clarity (I/SI2)
- lots of nice fire around the table, and some in the table

What I'm wondering about:
- it faces up small with extra weight in the belly. Grace has a 3.23 and 3.67 that face up about the same size.
- the facets may be crisp, but the depth prevents you from focusing well
- I can't tell if the clouds are having an impact on sparkle. It's also the depths of artic winter and a snowstorm here, so I can't see it in good light.
- seems to have a bowtie in some lights
- prefer a higher crown

Pictures in the next post. I would really appreciate any help!

I personally really like the look of this one. I love a chunky emerald. I think you need to decide in person if the clarity and face up work for you because we cannot see that in pictures. Make sure the stone is really clean to decide on the clarity. Face up wise I kinda feel like there is always a little bit of room unless you find your "perfect depth to face up ratio" it's always going to be oh it's a little deep so it loses some size or too shallow and the steps won't have that deep look. I notice my asscher show it's dark pattern when reflecting off of my camera and phone as well, so I think eyes are the best judge and diffused lighting really allows the steps to light up! Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[scarsmum]

The culet is where the diamond forms a point at the bottom. In this case there is a small strip in the center of the bottom where it doesn’t form a point or sharp edge . Some people really like a bit of a larger culet, I just prefer the precision of a line or point.

 

[JmeeMrie]

It appears more like a square Emerald Cut....not an antique Asscher...to my eyes.
Still, a pretty stone. Just not “Asscher-esque”.

Here are my two best pics and maybe you can compare to the one you have. (Pics by Caysie van Bebber)

I was noticing that people were commenting on the windmills not merging in the middle. This stone has a keel, so from what I have learned it is an emerald cut. A VERY chunky emerald cut which is why I like it so much and what I think gives it such a personality.
Just my opinion and not my money so your opinion is most important.. I wish I had that a budget like that...hehe

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@JmeeMrie I think you're technically right that it leans more to emerald cut with some asscher influence rather than the other way around. So a lot depends on which she really wants. Mine is an antique asscher with an elongated shape like an EC.

 

[JmeeMrie]

Also my 2 cents I only like a culet on big chunky stones.. I think on smaller ones like my 1.5 the windmills meeting in a point is my favorite .. I think this is all a matter of preference though...

 

[JmeeMrie]

@JmeeMrie I think you're technically right that it leans more to emerald cut with some asscher influence rather than the other way around. So a lot depends on which she really wants. Mine is an antique asscher with an elongated shape like an EC.

True.. I love that they're both chunky cuts. This and yours. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE your big elongated asscher.. it is definitely one of my faves here in pricescope and I'm looked at quite a few in my research.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Aww, thank you so much @JmeeMrie !!! I truly was very lucky to end up with that diamond!

 

[sunandsky]

I personally really like the look of this one. I love a chunky emerald. I think you need to decide in person if the clarity and face up work for you because we cannot see that in pictures. Make sure the stone is really clean to decide on the clarity. Face up wise I kinda feel like there is always a little bit of room unless you find your "perfect depth to face up ratio" it's always going to be oh it's a little deep so it loses some size or too shallow and the steps won't have that deep look. I notice my asscher show it's dark pattern when reflecting off of my camera and phone as well, so I think eyes are the best judge and diffused lighting really allows the steps to light up! Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Ok, good to know I'm not crazy. I don't see a bowtie in real life except in unusual lighting, but when taking pics it's terrible - it sounds like that happens to yours too?

The culet is where the diamond forms a point at the bottom. In this case there is a small strip in the center of the bottom where it doesn’t form a point or sharp edge . Some people really like a bit of a larger culet, I just prefer the precision of a line or point.

Thank you ... Ok - so what this stone has is not symmetrical enough to qualify as a culet/keel? or people liked the (asscher-style) culet as opposed to an (emerald-style) keel? thank you again!

I was noticing that people were commenting on the windmills not merging in the middle. This stone has a keel, so from what I have learned it is an emerald cut. A VERY chunky emerald cut which is why I like it so much and what I think gives it such a personality.
Just my opinion and not my money so your opinion is most important.. I wish I had that a budget like that...hehe

I'm definitely lucky, though there have been some tough times that got us here too. I hadn't focused on how the "windmill" facets meet, and I think I'd like either the asscher/culet or emerald/keel, but I definitely prefer an elongated shape to stones, which was part of the appeal here. I do think the performance in person is better than the photos!

@JmeeMrie I think you're technically right that it leans more to emerald cut with some asscher influence rather than the other way around. So a lot depends on which she really wants. Mine is an antique asscher with an elongated shape like an EC.

Yes - I am good either way I think with those "windmill" facets, but the overall shape I definitely prefer something elongated, with cut corners and chunky facets!

Aww, thank you so much @JmeeMrie !!! I truly was very lucky to end up with that diamond!

Hear, hear - it is really beautiful!!

 

[JmeeMrie]

I think in general stepcuts tend to reflect the colors around them. So when I am trying to get a decent head on photo with my cell phone (purple-ish grey GalaxyS it reflects that. The same with my DSLR. Also i think bright head on light too. It shows the darker sides of the patterns. In this one you can kind of see it reflecting the purple ish tone of my case.
Most of those photos I toss for ones w/ better angles but this one I liked bc you can see all of the asscher patterns. But in other pics or in diffused light every step lights up so there are no dead steps. It can't be light all the time, how else would we see the beautiful patterns?

Not all asschers have culets, usually only the antique ones from what I have seen. Moderns tend to have none and the windmills meet in the middle.

 

[MarionC]

Two « asschers ». One has a culet, one has a keel, but the keel was called a culet by GIA.
Of course, GIA doesn’t call them asschers : )
Both were called asschers by their vendors as the word asscher for sq.emerald cuts in the diamond world has become like the word kleenex in the tissue world.
I’m of the culet camp. One reason why I originally reached out to Yoram was that I wanted/needed a nice noticable culet and it was near impossible to match up that desire with a well cut asscher elsewhere.
DS leads a charmed life to have found her wonderful antique, I think, for I could not find one after 2 years of searching in my price range.

I suppose I like a nice culet as a focal point in the stone. For me it adds interest, a little something extra, and I enjoy the kozibe effect.
Of course one could always have a culet added!