Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1ct

[Kenzie333]

Okay so as suggested I have started looking at more diamonds that have Idealscope and ASET images. So after lots of searching I have found a few stones on b2cjewels with images and with a good HCA score. But I am not sure exactly if I am reading the ASET and Ideascopes correctly or if I have just found a nice handful of stones.



Carat Weight:1.09
Cut:Excellent
Color:J
Clarity:VS1
Depth:62.10
Table:55.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:M-Slight Thi
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Medium
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:6.57x6.61x4.09
HCA:1.5



Carat Weight:1.05
Cut:Excellent
Color:J
Clarity:VVS1
Depth:62.80
Table:56.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:M-Slight Thi
Culet:None
Fluorescence:None
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:6.44x6.48x4.06
HCA: 5.4



Carat Weight:1.17
Cut:Excellent
Color:J
Clarity:VS1
Depth:62.60
Table:56.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:M-Slight Thi
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Medium
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:6.70x6.73x4.20
HCA: 3.9


So I guess the question for the experts is help me understand the differences in the images. I understand the idea on the HCA and from that alone the first is the clear winner. And in the middle one there seems to be more white in the ASET which I think is bad but maybe it just has less green and more flat out red which would be good. And thats when I figured I needed some expert help.

Thanks

 

[thediamondshopper]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

Hi Kenzie,

You are definitely on the right track, the first diamond seems to be a clear winner in both the HCA and the ASET and ideal scope images. The white areas of the ASET images are light leakage which will negatively impact the "performance" of the diamond. The colors correspond to the following: blue= positive contrast, red-pink= brilliant light return, red being more brilliant, green= less light return, white= light leakage.

When considering the ASET and ideal scope images, it is also important look at the symmetry of the images, generally speaking more symmetrical images will result in a higher performance stone (2 and 3 appear muddled and correspondingly have a low HCA).

if you google an "ideal aset image" you will see lots of images of what a textbook ideal aset image should look like.

Good luck with your hunt, and if you would like to post more info on specific diamonds you are considering it is very helpful to include a link to the grading certificate, or at least information on the crown and pavilion angles, star and lower half %, to accompany the information you included in your post. All these details are pertinent to offering an opinion on the cut of a diamond.

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

Here are the certs for the 3 in the same order as the images:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//4043236.pdf
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//3711350.pdf
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//3941352.pdf

They all look very symetrical to my untrained eye but good to know I am on the right track. Also with the first one and the florescence I like the idea of florescence but is there any way to tell about the if this one is in the 1% were it actually makes the diamond look bad?

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

Okay so I forwarded these options to the guys I had been working with on the setting (deBebians) since they were one of the few that had the setting I liked. They are telling me that the dealers are telling them that these stones are "brown" and that I will not like them.

To quote: "The 1.09 J VS1 has the same issue. The dealer is saying that it’s ‘brown’. To me, this is why these diamonds may be priced lower than similar stones. You want a diamond that fades to yellow on the color scale, not fades to brown.

I’m not sure that idealscope and/or ASET covers the actual body color of the diamonds. This is why I feel that having a gemologist guide you through selecting your diamond is better than relying on the idealscope/ASET."

I know this is not in line with a lot of people who seem to swear by the Idealscope/ASET images but does she have a point? Is there color info that she would get from the dealer that I couldn't see in the photos? They are J colored stones but brown seems like a pretty strong word to use when talking about a diamond.

 

[thediamondshopper]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

Okay so I forwarded these options to the guys I had been working with on the setting (deBebians) since they were one of the few that had the setting I liked. They are telling me that the dealers are telling them that these stones are "brown" and that I will not like them.

To quote: "The 1.09 J VS1 has the same issue. The dealer is saying that it’s ‘brown’. To me, this is why these diamonds may be priced lower than similar stones. You want a diamond that fades to yellow on the color scale, not fades to brown.

It will often be the case that diamonds on the lower end price wise within their respective grades will be lower quality in their respective color and clarity grades. What is important to keep in mind is that all all J colors are the same, J is a range and there will be some on the higher end and like you have found out some on the lower end, much like there are some eye clean SI2's and some that show inclusions to the naked eye. There are J's out there that appear fairly white, some dealers will denote better quality J's as J+. When working with the vendor of your choice you can tell them to look for this and to look for a stone that is not brown.

I’m not sure that idealscope and/or ASET covers the actual body color of the diamonds. This is why I feel that having a gemologist guide you through selecting your diamond is better than relying on the idealscope/ASET."

Ideal scope and ASET images have nothing to do with color, they show the light performance of the diamond. What is interesting is that a diamond with ideal light performance will help to mask color as there is more positive light return which will help the diamond appear more white. When going into lower color grades I usually try to guide my clients towards stones with slightly larger tables as they will appear brighter and will help to mask the face up appearance of color a bit.

I know this is not in line with a lot of people who seem to swear by the Idealscope/ASET images but does she have a point? Is there color info that she would get from the dealer that I couldn't see in the photos? They are J colored stones but brown seems like a pretty strong word to use when talking about a diamond.

see above answers in bold after each question. Color is graded by the lab issuing the grading certificate, and you are in safe hands in most cases going by what GIA and AGS have graded the stone. It is still very important to get an opinion from the dealer who has the stone in hand as they can offer a comment on where in the color range the diamond sits, a good J or a poor J. When the say that the J looks brown, the diamond likely isnt brown, it has a brown tinge.

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

Thanks diamondshopper, I think the color part makes sense and I guess I did not think even at J that there would be even a hint of "brown" but I suppose that range does have some color. But in a GIA rated stone is it really possible that without a stone to stone comparison anyone would see the color in even the most "brown" J?

What is everyones take on the "This is why I feel that having a gemologist guide you through selecting your diamond is better than relying on the idealscope/ASET" comment? As an engineer I like things I can see and measure. And as this whole brown discussion proves there is a lot that can be hidden in the GIA numbers but seeing the actual symmetry with the ASET paints a pretty good picture cut wise. I guess I had not expected that I would also have to worry about the color in the J stone being visable. The picture sure didnt show any color to me but I understand thats me and on a computer screen. But should I be considering ditching the ASET and just putting my hands in the gemologists hands?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

but what is wrong with a brown J? Nothing. You are an educated consumer who has decided to go with J and unless the stone is one of those lucky Js that could be called a K on a different day, I don't know why you wouldn't be happy with a brown J. Face up J is quite white, you will see color from the side.

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

dupe

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

JulieN thank you! I swear the ups and downs of all this searching. Heck I am pretty sure I could walk into a jewlery store. Close my eyes and pick something and my gf would be over the flipping moon. But I (and pretty much no one here) wants to do that we want to make smart decisions and I really appricate this site for that. I get that there are trained gemoligists and they are very good at what they do but I suspect it is no different than when I would hold my nose up at people with an AMD processor vs my Intel. I know that a J is not the best color, but given the 4 C the color is probably the one I am most flexable on so it seemed like the right direction to go. Maybe that is something I need to talk with the jewler about. On the other hand I want to believe they are giving good advice because they could have just as easily said the stone was great and probably gotten a sale.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

I noticed you have VS1 and VVS. If you drop to VS2/SI1 could you get an I color?

 

[tweeter8177]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

I agree with JulieN if you drop your clarity you could go up in color. Also, have you looked at James Allen? Prices are competitive with b2c and they have pictures of the diamonds online. Also they will let you pick 3 stones that they will provide you an ideal scope image on and they will have a gemologist review the diamonds and give you insights on them.

 

[Kenzie333]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

I will try them tonight. They have photos online but idealscopes on request? That might still be worth it for finding a stone.

As for the color vs clarity question I guess in my mind it seemed better if the stone was yellower vs a visible inclusion. I know its a trade heck I would even consider just paying to go up on color but again I am trying to limit myself somewhat on cost. I know there are SI1s where you can't see the inclusion but playing that game is the same as finding a J where the color isn't visible.

 

[thediamondshopper]

Re: Help reading Idealscope and Asets and 3 options around 1

To sum alot of this up, if you are looking to play it safe go with an H-I color and and SI1 for clarity. From my experience at around 1ct 90% of SI1's are eye clean, the chance of a J being colorless is quite a bit less.

Most of the online companies mentioned will be able to make the appropriate inquiries to make sure the stone is eye clean and appears colorless. I would also venture to suggest good old gold, white flash and Brian gavin, as they deal with alot of AGS 000 Ideal stones and have them on hand to offer an opinion on whether they fit your needs.