Help me pick a main stone

[flyingpig]

The first diamond in the second video is a 60/60 style with 59/32/41.2, which is completely different from the stones you have listed.
Whatever difference you see in the video does not really apply to you.
The first video compares a H&A with a stone with good numbers but poor optical symmetry.
The second video compares a H&A with a stone with good optical symmetry and light return, but with less than ideal numbers.

I think a more relevant video is something like this.

 

[Acrata]

The first diamond in the second video is a 60/60 style with 59/32/41.2, which is completely different from the stones you have listed.
Whatever difference you see in the video does not really apply to you.
The first video compares a H&A with a stone with good numbers but poor optical symmetry.
The second video compares a H&A with a stone with good optical symmetry and light return, but with less than ideal numbers.

I think a more relevant video is something like this.

Thanks. If the last two videos are how Super Ideals compare to the stones I posted, that would be great. But how do I know if that is really the case?

It looks like ACA costs 20-25% more per carat than the stones I've been looking at. I am still trying to figure out how much visual difference that makes to the naked eye and whether it's worth the premium.

 

[flyingpig]

But how do I know if that is really the case?

All stones you have listed are GIA XXX with AGS ideal proportions with AGS ideal quality ASET images with no blatant light leakage. The proportions are (near) super ideal as well.

I cannot say how these stones compare with ACA or even WF expert selection or GOG platinum select.
What I can say for sure they won't perform like the 59/32/41.2 in Jann Paul's video.

 

[rockysalamander]

I did not mean to imply that your diamonds were exactly like the ones in the video, simply used the video as short-hand to show you a comparisn. @flyingpig is right on that your stones are different. I personally feel super-idea are worth the premium. You have a good budget and are aiming for a large stone.

The best comparison would be to find two stones from the same vendor, one ideal and one super-ideal. They could shoot a video side-by-side for you. Good large stones are a bit low right now, but if you have time, you can search around and find two stones from the same vendor.

While the proportions on the stones you posted are good, there is some leakage under the table and the inclusions are right in the center of the table. That inclusion is what will be seen. The bigger the stone, the more careful you have to be in looking at inclusions. I personally trade size for clarity.

The WF stone linked earlier up this thread has superior performance. But, you will still want to look at the stone and be comfortable with the inclusions. They should be ok, but your eyes need to be the test -- especially on SI1.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm

This HPD is totally clean and I'm sure they'd send you a video.
http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8738

Antique Emerald Cut: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-14ct-emerald-cut-diamond-gia-e-vs1-1

BE: https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/2.51-carat-i-vs2-ideal-round-cut-diamond-gid-1030984.html (need photo, video and IS; but looks really good by the cert)

 

[Acrata]

Thanks. Still thinking about Super Ideals. In the meantime, what do you think of stone #5?

 

[SimoneDi]

I like stone 5! Can we get he specs on this one?

 

[LLJsmom]

I posted this on another thread, and meant to respond here initially.

I had a 3x GIA (F, VS1, 2.59 carats) that fell into the PS parameters but as I wore it over two years there were things that I didn't like. After seeing super ideals, (which I found out about after I bought my initial stone) I feel like I could tell the difference in the crispness of the facets and reflections and how the sparkles go from edge to edge. This is something I noticed only after wearing my stone for over a couple of years and staring and observing it in various lighting environments. Who knows whether your wearer will notice or care. Unfortunately, I did. I really didn't think I would care when I bought my upgrade...

 

[Acrata]

I like stone 5! Can we get he specs on this one?

The cert is in the post, just below the images.

I had a 3x GIA (F, VS1, 2.59 carats) that fell into the PS parameters but as I wore it over two years there were things that I didn't like. After seeing super ideals, (which I found out about after I bought my initial stone) I feel like I could tell the difference in the crispness of the facets and reflections and how the sparkles go from edge to edge.

Was there a difference in ASET images between your GIA and Super Ideals?

Thanks again all!

 

[SimoneDi]

Duh! Just saw it. I still like the stone. It is outside of the ideal range,but it should be a fiery stone. Have you confirmed that it is eye-clean? Also, what is the price tag on this one?

Regarding super-ideals, I currently have 3, I have had 3 other in the past. Similar to @LLJsmom, I can see differences between super-ideals and other well cut stones, but I don't necessarily think that the average consumer can see them. Most of my "real world" friends can't distinguish between a D and a J, so that should give you some idea as to how detail oriented some can be Now the Q really is how detail oriented the wearer will be and if they will care for a super-ideal diamond.

 

[LLJsmom]

The cert is in the post, just below the images.


Was there a difference in ASET images between your GIA and Super Ideals?

Thanks again all!

Didn't have an ASET for my GIA 3x. Looked at it through my IS. It was good, but not super ideal good.

 

[Acrata]

Below is a cert for another stone. Do you know from this cert alone (have no images) if the cut quality is probably worse than stones #4/#5, probably similar, or just don't know?

Thanks again all.

 

[SimoneDi]

Um..it is not the worst of cuts, but at 2.6 on HCA, I would want to see some ASEat images. At the size that you are considering, I would want an extremely well cut stone and the report alone doesn't show that. I like the clarity of this one, seems like a very clean stone.

 

[rockysalamander]

Have you eliminated all the stone already posted here by @ac117 , @LLJsmom and others?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3290333
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2785512
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2701315
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1064452
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm
http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8738 {ask for video}
BE: https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/2.51-carat-i-vs2-ideal-round-cut-diamond-gid-1030984.html (need photo, video and IS; but looks really good by the cert)

 

[Acrata]

Have you eliminated all the stone already posted here by @ac117 , @LLJsmom and others?

Thanks. No, not eliminated all. Still trying to learn more about cut quality. 3+ ct is a requirement.

JA: don't want to work with them because they won't take ASET images of rounds
CBI: seems really expensive

 

[LLJsmom]

So just don't get the top cut since you have a budget constraint and a size requirement. You may not notice the difference. But there is no way to tell yourself that you are getting a top cut when you aren't. the pro is it may not make a difference to you, or your wearer. There is almost no way to tell whether you will notice a difference until the wearer has worn it for some time, and had a chance to compare it to super ideals. Just keep her off of Pricescope.

 

[rockysalamander]

Transitional Cut, 9.15 - 9.31 x 6.29 mm J VS@2
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/3-36ct-transitional-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs2

What about another shape? Oval, Pear and Marquise face up quite large compared to a round. I didn't find a lot in large size...but what do you think? Fancies are a pain to select, but it might give you the coverage.
3.00 ACA = 9.29
3.42 H VS1 round (above) = 9.66mm mm
2.71 F VS2 oval = 10.47*7.98

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.71-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3165622

 

[flyingpig]

I will be blunt.
Forget super ideal stones.

Ask IDJ to make a video on these stones, get the best looking one that is eye clean.

All these are fantastic. You are really lucky to have these many options in H color 3ct range.

 

[gm89uk]

So just don't get the top cut since you have a budget constraint and a size requirement. You may not notice the difference. But there is no way to tell yourself that you are getting a top cut when you aren't. the pro is it may not make a difference to you, or your wearer. There is almost no way to tell whether you will notice a difference until the wearer has worn it for some time, and had a chance to compare it to super ideals. Just keep her off of Pricescope.

The problem is here super ideal is a very narrow spectrum and there is an unwritten (other than ACA) understanding of what is expected.

When many people talk about ideal cuts that they could notice a difference between that and their super ideals, that is somewhat meaningless without hearts and arrows, certificates and ASETs to back it up, so that other users could correlate what imperfections led to visual differences.

The acceptable ideal standard and tolerances are not defined and far wider than that of a super Ideal.

With the cuts above, particularly stone 5, I think it's difficult to argue that he's not getting top cut. 'super ideal proportions' are not just there because of light performances but for many other practical reasons, work with wide range of tables, LGF% etc but they are not exclusively the best proportions. People may not be missing out on top diamonds just because they are not super ideal.

Will there will a visual difference between one really off heart compared to others, on close inspection, probably. Will you notice that there are tiny clefts and slight yaw demonstrates in some of the hearts, I highly doubt it. The most obvious difference here in performance will be the personality of the diamond, which is something else people may notice as a difference between their ideal and superideal cuts. People have found differences in light performance between super ideals for the same reason.

Some ideal diamonds will have areas of increased obstruction causing dark areas which people may eventually notice. This diamond will have edge to edge brightness and it will light up just like a super ideal in my experience.

Superideals are great, for people willing to compromise on some of the other 3Cs for cut and customer service. Usually that's invisible clarity issues or a non noticeable drop in colour, or a reduction in carat.

Here, the op has found great sized diamonds, with excellent customer service and a great upgrade policy. I'm not sure why the seed of 'super ideal Vs ideal' has been planted when the objective has been achieved.

With the same $ he will end up with an appreciably smaller stone or lower colour or lower clarity with a virtually indistinguishable light performance, especially so as he is not a highly trained eye for the peculiarities of the extreme level of detail some prosumers with years of experience have (and even still I think they would struggle) should be decide to go for a superideal.

OP you have been very lucky in your selection.

(PS lLJsmom this post was not all replying to you).

 

[Acrata]

Thanks for all the advice. Tomorrow I will compare, in person, an ACA stone to some of the stones I've shown in this thread. What should I be looking for to evaluate cut quality? I plan to look in office light, spot lighting, and natural sunlight, both up close and from a distance. I like to see a lot of contrast in the table and big flashes from main facets. Unfortunately I don't own an ASET scope. What else would you look for?

Also, here is stone 7. Comment if you want.

 

[MollyMalone]

Thanks for all the advice. Tomorrow I will compare, in person, an ACA stone to some of the stones I've shown in this thread. What should I be looking for to evaluate cut quality? I plan to look in office light, spot lighting, and natural sunlight, both up close and from a distance. I like to see a lot of contrast in the table and big flashes from main facets. Unfortunately I don't own an ASET scope. What else would you look for? * * *

Acrata, if you will be meeting with David Wolf (I keep wanting to put an e on the end of his last name), be assured that he has the scopes, and can run Sarin reports, etc.

P.S. Because you're not asking David (or whomever you've chosen) for standard appraisal services, seek clarification before you begin the session, if you've not already done so, on the fees you'll be charged, so you know how the billing "meter" will be running.

 

[Acrata]

Acrata, if you will be meeting with David Wolf (I keep wanting to put an e on the end of his last name), be assured that he has the scopes, and can run Sarin reports, etc.

Thanks. I'm using Gemological Appraisal Laboratory of America (http://www.gemlab.com). They have ASET scopes (handheld, not digital) and can run Sarin reports.

Any additional advice for analyzing cut quality? Is one of these machines especially important to use in person? What would you look for when looking with the naked eye?

 

[flyingpig]

Very lucky. Another great stone. No leakage despite being 35.5/40.8.

I will forward to see your final conclusion after comparison

 

[msop04]

I will be blunt.
Forget super ideal stones.

Ask IDJ to make a video on these stones, get the best looking one that is eye clean.

All these are fantastic. You are really lucky to have these many options in H color 3ct range.

This.

 

[Acrata]

I ended up looking at Super Ideals next to the stones I've listed here in person. I preferred the contrast and sparkle of Super Ideals even though it meant I would have to step down in color (ACA I SI1 was about the same price as a GIA H SI1 in this thread). Then, I decided to increase my budget and go for a bigger 3.656 I SI1 ACA: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3855505.htm. Given I went bigger I feel good about ACA because I think it would've been difficult to find a near-ideal-cut GIA stone in the 3.5+ ct range.

I'm excited! Now I need to get it set.

 

[rockysalamander]

Wonderful update. Sounds you were able to really figure out what appealed to you! All set with a setting or need some ideas?

 

[Acrata]

Wonderful update. Sounds you were able to really figure out what appealed to you! All set with a setting or need some ideas?

Thanks to you and everyone for all the help!

If you would like to help more: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/best-custom-setting-in-nyc.234114/

 

[gm89uk]

Glad to hear you found your ideal diamond! I'm curious as to which of the diamonds (1-7) you compared the ACA to? Were they side by side or just from memory?

 

[aptp]

I ended up looking at Super Ideals next to the stones I've listed here in person. I preferred the contrast and sparkle of Super Ideals even though it meant I would have to step down in color (ACA I SI1 was about the same price as a GIA H SI1 in this thread). Then, I decided to increase my budget and go for a bigger 3.656 I SI1 ACA: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3855505.htm. Given I went bigger I feel good about ACA because I think it would've been difficult to find a near-ideal-cut GIA stone in the 3.5+ ct range.

I'm excited! Now I need to get it set.

How much did the 3.656 I SI1 cost? I am looking for a similar super ideal diamond and this information would be really helpful.

 

[Acrata]

Glad to hear you found your ideal diamond! I'm curious as to which of the diamonds (1-7) you compared the ACA to? Were they side by side or just from memory?

I think I had it side by side with 4, 5, and 7. I also looked at a Crafted by Infinity next to stone 6. In both cases I preferred the super ideal in window (indirect sun) lighting. I am not sure I would recommend the same to everyone else, but it was a decision that gave me peace to know I wouldn't regret the cut qualty.

How much did the 3.656 I SI1 cost? I am looking for a similar super ideal diamond and this information would be really helpful.

Sorry, I only just noticed your reply. It was about $46k.