Help me pick a main stone

[Acrata]

I'm shopping for a main stone for an engagement ring. Looking for a round brilliant 3-3.5 H/I VS2/SI1, eye clean. It will be set with two baguettes. My starting budget is 35k USD, but could maybe go higher.

As a NYC resident I've contacted Brilliantly Engaged and ID jewelry. Both have been kind enough to show me some stones along with images.

1. What do you think about the Idealscope/ASET images and inclusions of these two stones? Both are claimed to be eye clean--do you agree?
2. What should I pay attention to when I see these in person?
3. Are there any other stones or vendors I should consider?

Stone 1:


Stone 2:

 

[LLJsmom]

For that much money, I would want a super ideal cut. Don't like those inclusions. I couldn't say if it was eye clean. I would have to see it for myself.

Whiteflash
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm
Ask if it is eye clean.

 

[tyty333]

For that much money, I would want a super ideal cut. Don't like those inclusions. I couldn't say if it was eye clean. I would have to see it for myself.

Whiteflash
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm
Ask if it is eye clean.

Beautiful stone!

A Cut Above (ACAs) are Super Ideal Branded Stone. AGS000, H&A cut to strict standards. All the images, pulse a nice video, to ensure that it is a well cut
stone. I didnt think $35K was enough to get the size you wanted and was quite surprised that there is one in your budget.
More on ACAs
https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/
https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds.aspx

 

[Acrata]

Do you think the two stones I posted are poorly cut? To the naked eye, how different do you think they are from an ACA?

 

[msop04]

For that much money, I would want a super ideal cut. Don't like those inclusions. I couldn't say if it was eye clean. I would have to see it for myself.

Whiteflash
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm
Ask if it is eye clean.

Wow! Great find!

 

[LLJsmom]

Do you think the two stones I posted are poorly cut? To the naked eye, how different do you think they are from an ACA?

Depends on you. I got a very 3x GIA but over time I noticed stuff, the lack of super precise cutting. I saw super ideal cuts and I could tell the difference. Bugged me. With the amount I paid, I wanted the best. Everyone is different, notices different things and cares about different things. So up to you...

 

[Acrata]

Thanks. What cut problems do you see in the images I've posted? Even though I've read about the Idealscope and different aspects of cut quality, I'm not sure what constitutes a significant difference in light performance.

 

[ingenue214]

For that much money, I would want a super ideal cut. Don't like those inclusions. I couldn't say if it was eye clean. I would have to see it for myself.

Agreed - that's a really healthy budget to work with, and I'd definitely be seeking a super ideal cut...it's the top C to consider in my mind, personally!

Also, the inclusions bother me as from the photos, they look quite obvious - they're black and right under the table facet. You'll only really know how eye clean it is when you view it in person, but that would be my first instinct.

Will they send you any more stones to look at, prior to visiting them?

 

[Acrata]

Thanks. I could ask for more stones, but I'm not sure what to ask for in terms of cut. I'm trying to balance cut and size--to get the biggest stone I can that has ideal light return but not necessarily perfect patterning. To that end, what non-ideal light return do you see in the images I posted?

I will also ask for a VS2 to see alongside.

 

[ac117]

Thanks. I could ask for more stones, but I'm not sure what to ask for in terms of cut. I'm trying to balance cut and size--to get the biggest stone I can that has ideal light return but not necessarily perfect patterning. To that end, what non-ideal light return do you see in the images I posted?

I will also ask for a VS2 to see alongside.

@Acrata I was in your position a little over a year ago and I too sought out top of the line GIA XXX over a super ideal stone (you can look up my previous threads). This is really personal preference....many PSers, including Gypsy who is highly regarded here but no longer posts bc she's now in the trade, believe that the difference is barely perceivable to the naked, untrained eye. Now we also have PSers who will only go for super ideals and that's totally fine, too!

I could've gotten a 2.6-2.8 I VS2/SI1 if i went the super ideal route, but instead I ended up with a 3.24 G VS2 with IDJ and I LOVE my stone. I found out I was pretty color sensitive in large MRBs so I ideally wanted no lower than an H. I will say that I was considering a 3.17 H SI1 with some similar dark inclusions as the ones you're considering and while the stone was mostly eye clean, there were some angles that I could see them since these stones are large! I'm also in NY and Yekutiel at IDJ is amazing!!! I'm sure they could find you a VS2 option - be patient...the right stone will come along!

 

[flyingpig]

Both stones are really good. But the second one H SI1 is better. I like it alot.

 

[ac117]

I wanted to post a few other options for you, which IDJ may or may not be able to call in depending on where they are located (they could usually offer better pricing, too):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3290333
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2785512
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2701315
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1064452

 

[Acrata]

ac117, thanks for your advice. What do you think of the ASET images I posted? Would they have passed your cut requirements?

 

[ac117]

ac117, thanks for your advice. What do you think of the ASET images I posted? Would they have passed your cut requirements?

Yes, they are both lovely...the second better than the first. But I think the dark inclusions may be visible and I would prob keep searching at least for an SI1 stone with lighter inclusions, if not a vs.

 

[ingenue214]

[B]@Acrata[/B]

Re: cut, I feel if you're good with a triple X GIA cut but not perfect patterning like a super ideal, it's totally fine - very much a personal choice - and a great starting point for your search. How the stone performs in real life though, I'd prefer to view for myself as each stone "speaks" differently in person.

Re: the inclusions, if you are choosing to get into the SI1 clarity range, I do think you'll need to take a look at the stones in person. I would personally avoid anything obvious and/or black under the table - that was one of the criteria I used to filter through before calling in SI1 stones - and even any black inclusions on the sides may still be viewable as "dirt specks" when you look at it with a naked eye. With a stone that's on the larger side, it's a bit harder to get away with. I've seen really eye clean SI1s - I have one myself, where the most obvious inclusion is super TINY and off to the side, easily hidden by prongs - but they're not as common as you'd think...although I'd defer to the experts

Once again though, it's a really personal preference - what bothers me may not bother you as much, so the best thing for you if unsure is to call the stones in to look at in person... just my 2c

 

[Acrata]

Thanks so much for the help. I'm going to try to look at Super Ideals in person next to near-ideals to see which direction to go. I'll also see how the SI1 inclusions are to my naked eye.

 

[ac117]

Please come back and let us know what you decide!

 

[Acrata]

I've now seen two more options. What do you think of their cut quality? How do they compare to the first two?

Stone 3:


Stone 4:

 

[Acrata]

Sorry, I actually meant, how do stones 2, 3, and 4 compare? Stone 1 is out of the running.

 

[rockysalamander]

#2 has way too much stuff going on. It would be a hard no to me.

I would normally choose chubby arrows (#3), but either #3 is not facing the camera square or it is really no symmetrical. There is also a dark inclusion at about noon that would not work for me.



So, I like #4. While there is an inclusion in the table, it is very fine and white. ASET are about the same for these. I'd really want to see a good video and look at that inclusion (good video, meaning like James Allen). But, I think you need to really see this to know.

 

[WillyDiamond]

OP
Are you locked into NYC PS vendors?
If so, try Chris at BE. I think they have quality stones, and stand behind their workmanship 100%
Good luck.

 

[rockysalamander]

I'd still vote for @SimoneDi's ACA suggestion if it is eye clean over #4. I think you will notice a difference between super-ideal and not in a large stone.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3809557.htm

I kinda feel like I have to ask...have you discussed or tried on rings with your GF and she is cool with a 3-3.5 carat stone?

 

[SimoneDi]

@rockysalamander the ACA was @LLJsmom 's suggestion, but it gets my vote as well although, I do like IDJ very much and I trust that they can source you a great stone if you really want to work with them.

 

[rockysalamander]

@rockysalamander the ACA was @LLJsmom 's suggestion, but it gets my vote as well although, I do like IDJ very much and I trust that they can source you a great stone if you really want to work with them.

Thanks for the correction...I should give credit to the @LLJsmom then!

 

[Acrata]

Thanks all. What in #4's images looks worse than a super ideal?

Regarding 3-3.5 ct: you think she might find it too big? Too small?

 

[rockysalamander]

Thanks all. What in #4's images looks worse than a super ideal?

Regarding 3-3.5 ct: you think she might find it too big? Too small?

The difference between super idea and not is the precision of the cutting. If you look at the ASET and IS of a super-ideal, every line is crisp and sharp. It's like the transmission of a corvette (ideal) vs. a porsche (super-ideal).

On size. It is very personal, but 3-3.5 carats is larger than the average american -- although well within what was typical of the folks my partens socialize with. She may love it, she may find it too much or too flashy. She might find that it knocks into stuff. This is a big investment on a diamond if you are not positive on size. I'm not saying don't get a diamond this size, but that you should take your girl to Harry Winston, Tiffany's or something similar that will have large diamonds and and have her put rings on her finger...get clear on her size and shape preference. It really does matter what she likes and what size her finger is...

Size 6 finger, 1.02, 1.21, 1.51, 2.01 carats.

 

[rockysalamander]

Here's a good comparison of a Super-Ideal vs. Ideal. He walks you through the details.

 

[Acrata]

Thanks all. I'll watch those videos and try to learn more.

Here are two more images of #4:

 

[flyingpig]

#2 has way too much stuff going on. It would be a hard no to me.

The diamond is tilted in this image. If you see the ASET image, the asymmetry is not so dramatic.

OP. I think all these stones are worth considering depending on the price.

 

[Acrata]

Thanks for the videos. Of particular interest in the second video: two stones with similar ASETs can have quite different light performance. How do I know if my stone #4 underperforms its ASET like that? HCA is <= 2 for the underperforming stone in the video, so I don't think that can help me differentiate.